Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:30 AM - Re: Mounting fuel pumps (Paul Stewart)
2. 09:22 AM - Re: Fuel filler (Rob Housman)
3. 10:11 AM - Re: Fuel filler (Chuck Popenoe)
4. 10:48 AM - Re: Fuel filler (STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2)
5. 01:43 PM - naca vents (Richard)
6. 02:06 PM - Re: naca vents (Davidghillam@aol.com)
7. 04:14 PM - Re: naca vents (Cliff Shaw)
8. 04:31 PM - Re: naca vents (Troy Maynor)
9. 04:57 PM - Regarding Europa Lists NACA vents (Jeff Roberts)
10. 06:50 PM - Re: Fuel filler (Fergus Kyle)
11. 09:00 PM - Re: Regarding Europa Lists NACA vents (Kevin Klinefelter)
12. 11:02 PM - Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. (William Mills)
13. 11:34 PM - Re: Regarding Europa Lists NACA vents (Richard)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Mounting fuel pumps |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Stewart" <paul-d.stewart@virgin.net>
I have mounted an Andair mini gascolator and fuel pump onto and aluminium
plate as a complete unit. The whole thing is then mounted onto the rear
baggage bay support using rubber gasket to reduce vibration. The whole
gascolator / fuel pump unit can be removed in one piece of required.
Paul Stewart #432
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Polyurethane is a very poor choice for handling fuel. For details go to
http://www.mcmaster.com/ and search for 5108KAC (a pdf file of properties
of various polyurethane formulations). Read it and weep.
PVC is even worse (5233KAC).
Some types of nylon (5173KAC) are good, and Teflon brand of PTFE (5239KAC)
is the best of the plastics, but lots of luck finding either material in a
large enough diameter, although Teflon lined hose is available in larger
sizes (at US$43.56 per foot for 2 inch ID).
The best choices for handling fuel and oil are the various Buna-N, and
nitrile hoses (search for "petroleum hose") and one of these is probably
what the Europa factory has supplied.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filler
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Hello,
I see where polyurethane plastic was mentioned as fuel line, and
wondered what its resistance to diesel/turbo/petrol fuels was, and whether
it has high resistance or if spares should be made for the title fuel line -
somewhere in the 2 inch diameter range.
I have a welder making up top and bottom fittings for the fuel
filler with perhaps a polyurethane line joining them. Any details gratefully
received.
20cm snow last night. At least the temp is rising to minus 5
tmoro.
Ferg
A064
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops@verizon.net>
I have had years of experience with urethane tubing and gasoline, and it's
always worked for me. Infinitely better than PVC (Tygon)! However, what
I've always used was the blue-tinted tubing sold by ACS as fuel tubing, and
that may be a special formulation, or perhaps 5971K.
Pops
A036
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filler
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Polyurethane is a very poor choice for handling fuel. For details go to
http://www.mcmaster.com/ and search for 5108KAC (a pdf file of properties
of various polyurethane formulations). Read it and weep.
PVC is even worse (5233KAC).
Some types of nylon (5173KAC) are good, and Teflon brand of PTFE (5239KAC)
is the best of the plastics, but lots of luck finding either material in a
large enough diameter, although Teflon lined hose is available in larger
sizes (at US$43.56 per foot for 2 inch ID).
The best choices for handling fuel and oil are the various Buna-N, and
nitrile hoses (search for "petroleum hose") and one of these is probably
what the Europa factory has supplied.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filler
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Hello,
I see where polyurethane plastic was mentioned as fuel line, and
wondered what its resistance to diesel/turbo/petrol fuels was, and whether
it has high resistance or if spares should be made for the title fuel line -
somewhere in the 2 inch diameter range.
I have a welder making up top and bottom fittings for the fuel
filler with perhaps a polyurethane line joining them. Any details gratefully
received.
20cm snow last night. At least the temp is rising to minus 5
tmoro.
Ferg
A064
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2" <garrys@att.com>
I purchased clear, flexible poly-urethane tubing for my fuel filler and
have been using it for 4 years with no smell, no deterioration, no
problems. I purchased a 36 inch length for less than $US
5.00............at Home Depot. (That's a DIY store in the states)
Regards,
Garry V. Stout
E-Mail: garrys@att.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Popenoe [mailto:cpops@verizon.net]
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filler
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops@verizon.net>
I have had years of experience with urethane tubing and gasoline, and
it's
always worked for me. Infinitely better than PVC (Tygon)! However,
what
I've always used was the blue-tinted tubing sold by ACS as fuel tubing,
and
that may be a special formulation, or perhaps 5971K.
Pops
A036
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filler
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Polyurethane is a very poor choice for handling fuel. For details go to
http://www.mcmaster.com/ and search for 5108KAC (a pdf file of
properties
of various polyurethane formulations). Read it and weep.
PVC is even worse (5233KAC).
Some types of nylon (5173KAC) are good, and Teflon brand of PTFE
(5239KAC)
is the best of the plastics, but lots of luck finding either material
in a
large enough diameter, although Teflon lined hose is available in larger
sizes (at US$43.56 per foot for 2 inch ID).
The best choices for handling fuel and oil are the various Buna-N, and
nitrile hoses (search for "petroleum hose") and one of these is probably
what the Europa factory has supplied.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filler
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Hello,
I see where polyurethane plastic was mentioned as fuel line,
and
wondered what its resistance to diesel/turbo/petrol fuels was, and
whether
it has high resistance or if spares should be made for the title fuel
line -
somewhere in the 2 inch diameter range.
I have a welder making up top and bottom fittings for the
fuel
filler with perhaps a polyurethane line joining them. Any details
gratefully
received.
20cm snow last night. At least the temp is rising to minus 5
tmoro.
Ferg
A064
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
Murphy's law at work!!
I fitted the NACA vents in the side of the fuse, as recommended by the
factory. First time I operated them in situ, after completing the painting
of the fuse, the threaded pin snapped off one of them.
I have obtained a spare replacement & have been trying to work out how
replace the broken flap with a new one. The only way I can see is to grind
off the outer surround to the replacement, leaving just the flap and the
internal housing, then grind of the housing on the broken one. I can then
glue the replacement housing complete with flap to the existing outer
surround.
Anyone got any other solutions? Also what glue is best to glue the plastic?
Richard Iddon G-RIXS (back to working out where all the wires go)
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Davidghillam@aol.com
In a message dated 3/6/03 9:44:21 PM GMT Standard Time, riddon@btinternet.com
writes:
> I fitted the NACA vents in the side of the fuse, as recommended by the
> factory. First time I operated them in situ, after completing the painting
> of the fuse, the threaded pin snapped off one of them.
>
Same thing happened to me. I haven't repaired it yet and look forward to
seeing any replies.
David
G-SHSH
(weighed and ready for final inspections!)
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@attbi.com>
All
Bob Jacobsen and I had that trouble on his plane too. So I have not used
them on mine.
On Bob's, we fixed one with epoxy and then made a mental note not to turn it
the wrong direction. But the other failed the same way when a passenger
twisted it the wrong way. They are just not very strong.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
Subject: Europa-List: naca vents
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
>
> Murphy's law at work!!
>
> I fitted the NACA vents in the side of the fuse, as recommended by the
> factory. First time I operated them in situ, after completing the
painting
> of the fuse, the threaded pin snapped off one of them.
>
> I have obtained a spare replacement & have been trying to work out how
> replace the broken flap with a new one. The only way I can see is to
grind
> off the outer surround to the replacement, leaving just the flap and the
> internal housing, then grind of the housing on the broken one. I can then
> glue the replacement housing complete with flap to the existing outer
> surround.
>
> Anyone got any other solutions? Also what glue is best to glue the
plastic?
>
> Richard Iddon G-RIXS (back to working out where all the wires go)
>
>
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Same here. Mine not only came unglued but it stripped the thread(s) off. I
took the broke stud to a buddy at the machine shop at work and he turned
one out on a lathe and even put a thread on it. The threads weren't perfect
but I worked on it with a file and it is fine now. I glued it in with the
cement you use on pvc plumbing as it was now made from gray pvc. If I could
do it over I would make my own NACA since I now have experience with the one
on top of the cowl.
Troy Maynor
N120EU
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard <riddon@btinternet.com>
Subject: Europa-List: naca vents
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
>
>Murphy's law at work!!
>
>I fitted the NACA vents in the side of the fuse, as recommended by the
>factory. First time I operated them in situ, after completing the painting
>of the fuse, the threaded pin snapped off one of them.
>
>I have obtained a spare replacement & have been trying to work out how
>replace the broken flap with a new one. The only way I can see is to
grind
>off the outer surround to the replacement, leaving just the flap and the
>internal housing, then grind of the housing on the broken one. I can then
>glue the replacement housing complete with flap to the existing outer
>surround.
>
>Anyone got any other solutions? Also what glue is best to glue the
plastic?
>
>Richard Iddon G-RIXS (back to working out where all the wires go)
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Regarding Europa Lists NACA vents |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
These vents havent ever worked well. Several builders have told me this.
Europa knows this but continues to send them along with a builders manual
with pictures that are photo copied so you cant see them. There are many
other things that should be changed such as the sequence of certain parts of
the build.
Dont get me wrong, I love this little plane and hope to be flying in a
year.
I just feel that if it werent for the expert guidance Ive received from
Flight Crafters I would have already made several mistakes. Simple things
like more drawings, better sequencing of the pages. Also how much would it
costs to include an extra rivet or two, or an extra piece of piano hinge
wire.
Clearly the company is more interested in selling kits than solving builder
concerns & problems with the manual. This is an issue that needs to be
changed if Europa is to ever flourish here in America.
Jeff
1st time builder
A258
Tri gear
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>>
> Polyurethane is a very poor choice for handling fuel. For details go to
> http://www.mcmaster.com/ and search for 5108KAC (a pdf file of
properties> of various polyurethane formulations). Read it and weep.
> PVC is even worse (5233KAC).>
> Some types of nylon (5173KAC) are good, and Teflon brand of PTFE
(5239KAC)> is the best of the plastics, but lots of luck finding either
material in a> large enough diameter, although Teflon lined hose is
available in larger> sizes (at US$43.56 per foot for 2 inch ID).
> The best choices for handling fuel and oil are the various Buna-N, and
> nitrile hoses (search for "petroleum hose") and one of these is probably>
what the Europa factory has supplied.> Best regards,
> Rob Housman> A070
Rob,
I thanked you privately, but thanks again for help.
At your suggestion, I ran across McMaster-Carr page196,
item 5285k31, 3ft of 2"ID Nitrile hose for $US20.19, and
item 5727k76, 5ft of 2"ID Buna-N hose at $US9.89 per foot.
Each claims ideal resisitance to fuel oil/gasoline and each has
a satisfactory bend radius to qualify it for a run from top centre (Classic)
to tank entry port, although I plan an aluminum horizontal plus 5 inch
upward weld for the last section into the baggage area.
Would you be willing to pronounce on either or both of these, as
to avoid the stench of diesel oil I am willing to cough up the requisite
sum? I suppose that opens the arena for any other cognosciento as well.
kind thoughts,
Ferg
A064
Message 11
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| Subject: | Regarding Europa Lists NACA vents |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
And I for one truly want to see Europa flourish worldwide. Well said. You
guys listening?
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Roberts
Subject: Europa-List: Regarding Europa Lists NACA vents
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
These vents havent ever worked well. Several builders have told me this.
Europa knows this but continues to send them along with a builders manual
with pictures that are photo copied so you cant see them. There are many
other things that should be changed such as the sequence of certain parts of
the build.
Dont get me wrong, I love this little plane and hope to be flying in a
year.
I just feel that if it werent for the expert guidance Ive received from
Flight Crafters I would have already made several mistakes. Simple things
like more drawings, better sequencing of the pages. Also how much would it
costs to include an extra rivet or two, or an extra piece of piano hinge
wire.
Clearly the company is more interested in selling kits than solving builder
concerns & problems with the manual. This is an issue that needs to be
changed if Europa is to ever flourish here in America.
Jeff
1st time builder
A258
Tri gear
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Hi Andy,
Does the Factory have any ideas how we can best correct the distortion to
the door corners?
Regards,
William
----- Original Message -----
From: "STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2" <garrys@att.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Door Gas Strut Mod.
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2"
<garrys@att.com>
>
> All replies appear to be valid approaches in a "new construction"
> environment. As the proud owner of a 4 year old Europa, I now find that
> the top rear corner of my doors has grown to a 1/2 inch gap (proud of
> the fuselage for my Brit friends). Does anyone have any experience with
> "reversing" the distortion of the doors? Some non-destructive method of
> bringing the doors back to a flush position with the fuselage?
>
> Regards,
>
> Garry V. Stout
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Regarding Europa Lists NACA vents |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
Hang on Guy's, I am not inviting yet another Europa bashing session. Of
course the company is interested in making a profit. How else can they pay
the wages of the excellent guys at Europa who are always on hand to give
help & advice, to continue to develop the airplane for all our benefit and
to look for solutions to problems such as the one I have highlighted. They
are not a large organisation and I believe they truly care about the product
they supply but have only so much time that they can spend on fixing the
bugs because this doesn't make them much income. If they don't continue to
sell more airplanes I am sure they would very quickly go out of business.
I did get a few spare rivets, nuts etc. (kit no. 533. The manual seems to be
being constantly improved and any problems I have had with the instructions
have been addressed very quickly so maybe they have listened and learned
over the years. I am sure that they will address all the concerns you
express in time. In the meantime, the experience & solutions to problems
gained through the forum is also invaluable.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Roberts
Subject: Europa-List: Regarding Europa Lists NACA vents
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
These vents havent ever worked well. Several builders have told me this.
Europa knows this but continues to send them along with a builders manual
with pictures that are photo copied so you cant see them. There are many
other things that should be changed such as the sequence of certain parts of
the build.
Dont get me wrong, I love this little plane and hope to be flying in a
year.
I just feel that if it werent for the expert guidance Ive received from
Flight Crafters I would have already made several mistakes. Simple things
like more drawings, better sequencing of the pages. Also how much would it
costs to include an extra rivet or two, or an extra piece of piano hinge
wire.
Clearly the company is more interested in selling kits than solving builder
concerns & problems with the manual. This is an issue that needs to be
changed if Europa is to ever flourish here in America.
Jeff
1st time builder
A258
Tri gear
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