---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/27/03: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:14 AM - Re: Helicopter flying 569 m (david joyce) 2. 01:57 AM - Re: Pip-pin wanted (Cripps, David) 3. 02:32 AM - FW: Propeller Balancing. (R.C.Harrison) 4. 02:35 AM - Re: Pip-pin wanted (Brian Davies) 5. 02:38 AM - Re: Required tools (Simon Smith) 6. 04:35 AM - Re: Helicopter flying 569 m (Rob Huntington) 7. 09:30 AM - CS04 tufnol bearings (Jeremy Davey) 8. 10:08 AM - Re: Thumb Tack remedy to heavy feet. (DaveBuzz@aol.com) 9. 10:23 AM - Re: CS04 tufnol bearings (JohnDHeykoop@aol.com) 10. 10:30 AM - Re: Thumb Tack remedy to heavy feet. (Peter Zutrauen) 11. 10:47 AM - Re: CS04 tufnol bearings (Jeremy Davey) 12. 10:47 AM - Re: Pip-pin wanted (Tony S. Krzyzewski) 13. 12:04 PM - Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax (craig ellison) 14. 12:07 PM - Re: Pip-pin wanted (paul stewart) 15. 02:08 PM - Re: Required tools (James H Nelson) 16. 02:44 PM - Re: CS04 tufnol bearings (JohnDHeykoop@aol.com) 17. 03:12 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS (Rowland & Wilma Carson) 18. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax (Robert Berube) 19. 08:37 PM - Aircraft to get PPL (Trems) 20. 09:04 PM - Re: Aircraft to get PPL (Peter Zutrauen) 21. 09:57 PM - Re: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax (craig ellison) 22. 10:02 PM - Re: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax (craig ellison) 23. 10:07 PM - Crosswinds and hot starts (DJA727@aol.com) 24. 11:01 PM - Re: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax (David DeFord) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:25 AM PST US From: "david joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Helicopter flying 569 m --> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" 1242 is possible but I expect all you young guys with sharp reflexes will get a lot further if you put yourminds to it David ----- Original Message ----- From: Trems Subject: Re: Europa-List: Helicopter flying 569 m > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Trems" > > I got a 646 and I don't fly yet. I think I can skip the PPL. LOL : > } > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Renshaw" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: Helicopter flying 569 m > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw > > > > > Gidday, > > Well I have had a couple of quick goes and I know pilots like a > challenge. > > Here it is. 569 metres. Go for it. > > Reg > > Tony Renshaw > > P.S. > > > > > > At 10:39 AM 3/26/2003 +0000, you wrote: > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" > > > > > >If any of you are weather bound or bored with sanding try > > >www.hurtwood.demon.co.uk/Fun/copter.swf for a bit of light relief. David > > Joyce > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:45 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted From: "Cripps, David" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cripps, David" Dear Bob, The pins I'm talking about are the ones that go through the top of the tailplanes, through the torque tube and out the other side. Maybe my terminology is not correct, but the pins I have (and one of which is broken) have a ring at the top which pulls on a spring loaded rod than runs up the centre of the pin, and when either pulled or pushed it allows a couple of little ball bearings at the pin's tip to retract so that you can then pull the pin out/push it in. I thought that was a pip pin - I've not heard of a 'permament pin'. Can you tell me more? By 'upgrading' I mean the process by which some people have changed these 1/4" pins to 5/16" pins and reamed out the holes accordingly - 'oversizing' you call it. Also I do understand about the fact that these pins are only intended to ensure that the tailplanes don't slide off - and that they shouldn't carry torque as that may dislodge the bush embedded in the tailplanes. Elongating the holes (circumferentially - not spanwise) in the torque tube helps in this respect. I understand that torque is only supposed to be transmitted via the drive pins and plate at the root end of the tailplanes. I think we're all talking about the same thing - just my terminology may be incorrect! Thanks for the comments and for the offers of help from everyone else - what a great forum this is. David -----Original Message----- From: R.C.Harrison [mailto:ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk] Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! David /Ferg. I am intrigued about PIP PIN UPGRADING? The Only upgrading I know of is the 1370lb spar 1/2" pins replacing 3/8" pin originals or the oversizing of Torque Tube Drive Pins which are permanent pins not "Pip Pins". The pip pins holes in the tail plane bush are supposed to be elongated radially to ensure they DON'T act as drivers on the inner tail plane bush when slop develops between the two tail plane halves. Bemused Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" dAVID, I have one, because of upgrading. Jenny comes over this week. Let me know. Ferg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cripps, David" Subject: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cripps, David" > > Help! > > The spring mechanism in one of my pip-pins for my Europa Classic tailplane came apart when I was trying to pull the pin out. Although I've now got the pin out it is clearly no use and needs replacing. New ones appear to be massively expensive (>50GB pounds each). > > Does anyone who has drilled out their torque tubes to take the new, upgraded, larger diameter pip-pins have an old, smaller diameter one to spare? > > Yours hopefully > > David > GBWJH > > > Visit SP at stand J06/L01 at the JEC Composites Show, Paris, 1st-3rd April 2003 > > **************************************************************************** ****************** > All sales of goods are subject to the terms and conditions of sale (the Conditions) > of SP Systems (the Company) which are available on request from the Company > or may be viewed on our Website (http://www.spsystems.com). > > Any advice given by the Company in connection with the sale of goods is given > in good faith but the company only warrants that advice in writing is given with > reasonable skill and care. All advice is otherwise given subject to the Conditions. > > The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and > are intended solely for the attention and use of the addressee only. > Information contained in this message may be subject to legal, > professional or other privilege or may otherwise be protected by other > legal rules. This message should not be copied or forwarded to any other > person without the express permission of the sender. If you are not the > intended recipient you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute > or retain this message or any part of it. > > Visit SP at stand J06/L01 at the JEC Composites Show, Paris, 1st-3rd April 2003 ********************************************************************************************** All sales of goods are subject to the terms and conditions of sale (the Conditions) of SP Systems (the Company) which are available on request from the Company or may be viewed on our Website (http://www.spsystems.com). Any advice given by the Company in connection with the sale of goods is given in good faith but the company only warrants that advice in writing is given with reasonable skill and care. All advice is otherwise given subject to the Conditions. The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and are intended solely for the attention and use of the addressee only. Information contained in this message may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege or may otherwise be protected by other legal rules. This message should not be copied or forwarded to any other person without the express permission of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute or retain this message or any part of it. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:40 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: FW: Europa-List: Propeller Balancing. --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Chaps Further clue about this balancing guy is we think he came from near Leominster or Warwick? Any suggestions greatfully received. Bob H G-PTAG --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! UK Europaphiles. A friend has asked me to put a message out . He is building a Mono- and just installing the engine. He is fitting a standard Warp drive propeller and wants to know the arrangement of the fixed nut positions on the Spinner Back Plate. He has also previously used the services of a chap who has all the guismo's and does Prop. Ballancing but has misplaced his contact details. Can anyone help? Please.(North Lincolnshire) regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:04 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" David, Light Aero Spares tel 01409 281578 sell a French equivalent for between 10 and 15. Brian Davies kit 454 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cripps, David" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cripps, David" > > Dear Bob, > > The pins I'm talking about are the ones that go through the top of the tailplanes, through the torque tube and out the other side. Maybe my terminology is not correct, but the pins I have (and one of which is broken) have a ring at the top which pulls on a spring loaded rod than runs up the centre of the pin, and when either pulled or pushed it allows a couple of little ball bearings at the pin's tip to retract so that you can then pull the pin out/push it in. I thought that was a pip pin - I've not heard of a 'permament pin'. Can you tell me more? > > By 'upgrading' I mean the process by which some people have changed these 1/4" pins to 5/16" pins and reamed out the holes accordingly - 'oversizing' you call it. > > Also I do understand about the fact that these pins are only intended to ensure that the tailplanes don't slide off - and that they shouldn't carry torque as that may dislodge the bush embedded in the tailplanes. Elongating the holes (circumferentially - not spanwise) in the torque tube helps in this respect. I understand that torque is only supposed to be transmitted via the drive pins and plate at the root end of the tailplanes. > > I think we're all talking about the same thing - just my terminology may be incorrect! > > Thanks for the comments and for the offers of help from everyone else - what a great forum this is. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: R.C.Harrison [mailto:ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk] > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > > Hi! David /Ferg. > I am intrigued about PIP PIN UPGRADING? The Only upgrading I know of is the > 1370lb spar 1/2" pins replacing 3/8" pin originals or the oversizing of > Torque Tube Drive Pins which are permanent pins not "Pip Pins". > The pip pins holes in the tail plane bush are supposed to be elongated > radially to ensure they DON'T act as drivers on the inner tail plane bush > when slop develops between the two tail plane halves. > Bemused Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > > dAVID, > I have one, because of upgrading. Jenny comes over this week. > Let me know. > Ferg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cripps, David" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cripps, David" > > > > > Help! > > > > The spring mechanism in one of my pip-pins for my Europa Classic tailplane > came apart when I was trying to pull the pin out. Although I've now got the > pin out it is clearly no use and needs replacing. New ones appear to be > massively expensive (>50GB pounds each). > > > > Does anyone who has drilled out their torque tubes to take the new, > upgraded, larger diameter pip-pins have an old, smaller diameter one to > spare? > > > > Yours hopefully > > > > David > > GBWJH > > > > > > Visit SP at stand J06/L01 at the JEC Composites Show, Paris, 1st-3rd April > 2003 > > > > > **************************************************************************** > ****************** > > All sales of goods are subject to the terms and conditions of sale (the > Conditions) > > of SP Systems (the Company) which are available on request from the > Company > > or may be viewed on our Website (http://www.spsystems.com). > > > > Any advice given by the Company in connection with the sale of goods is > given > > in good faith but the company only warrants that advice in writing is > given with > > reasonable skill and care. All advice is otherwise given subject to the > Conditions. > > > > The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and > > are intended solely for the attention and use of the addressee only. > > Information contained in this message may be subject to legal, > > professional or other privilege or may otherwise be protected by other > > legal rules. This message should not be copied or forwarded to any other > > person without the express permission of the sender. If you are not the > > intended recipient you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute > > or retain this message or any part of it. > > > > > > > Visit SP at stand J06/L01 at the JEC Composites Show, Paris, 1st-3rd April 2003 > > **************************************************************************** ****************** > All sales of goods are subject to the terms and conditions of sale (the Conditions) > of SP Systems (the Company) which are available on request from the Company > or may be viewed on our Website (http://www.spsystems.com). > > Any advice given by the Company in connection with the sale of goods is given > in good faith but the company only warrants that advice in writing is given with > reasonable skill and care. All advice is otherwise given subject to the Conditions. > > The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and > are intended solely for the attention and use of the addressee only. > Information contained in this message may be subject to legal, > professional or other privilege or may otherwise be protected by other > legal rules. This message should not be copied or forwarded to any other > person without the express permission of the sender. If you are not the > intended recipient you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute > or retain this message or any part of it. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:38:54 AM PST US From: "Simon Smith" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Required tools --> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" Thanks everyone for the info. Simon -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst Subject: Re: Europa-List: Required tools --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" --> > To save me searching through the entire manual, can someone tell me > where the 5mmx0.8mm and 12mmx1.75mm taps are required? > Simon, The 5mm x .08mm tap is for tapping the lugs on the doors for the gas strut ball joints. This is in the manual where it explains how to fit the gas struts. You also need a 4.2mm drill bit to drill these holes. The 12mm taps are required for tapping the wing lift pin holes and the flap drive pin holes. This is also in the manual in the relevant section for fitting these pins. From memory, think the drill bit needed for this is 10.8mm. I would advise against using the nearest (undersized) imperial size drill bits for the wing and flap pins like I did. The extra couple of thou makes quite a difference. Sorry but haven't got my manual handy to confirm page numbers. Regards Kingsley Hurst Mono Classic 281 direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:31 AM PST US From: Rob Huntington Subject: Re: Europa-List: Helicopter flying 569 m --> Europa-List message posted by: Rob Huntington Well I got 1064 but since I am in the US it was feet not metres, so you win! Rob Huntington --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:53 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: Europa-List: CS04 tufnol bearings --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" I'm working on fitting the ribs under my cockpit module and it says to put them where they aren't in the way of the CS04 tufnol bearings' bolts. Unfortunately I don't have my CS04's yet (I think they're on back order). Does anyone out there have one to hand that could let me know the horizontal and vertical separation between the bolt hole centres? Thanks for any help anyone can offer. Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:51 AM PST US From: DaveBuzz@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Thumb Tack remedy to heavy feet. --> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com one other method is to cut and bolt in a couple of pieces of nylon rod about 1 inch dia (eg spare outrigger rod) through the firewall, so that the top front of the rudder pedals contact the nylon rods just after max rudder deflection. This needs a bit of experimentation, but cut the rods slightly undersize and they can always be lengthened by adding penny washers. The main advantage is that the stop is readily felt at max deflection and is fitted where the force is applied, ie under your foot! chus, dave > >Tony and heavy footed co. >I hope you have therefore installed Graham Singletons rudder mod, as otherwise Graham tells me the combined force due to the very high mechanical advantage of pushing, especially with both feet, is about 800 lbs, and all of this is concentrated on your bottom rudder hinge....... ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:00 AM PST US From: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: CS04 tufnol bearings --> Europa-List message posted by: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Jeremy It is not the bolts but the large AN970-3 washers that you need to worry about. My plywood ribs are 110mm apart which gives me a few mm clearance from the washers. John XS Mono kit#536 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:09 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Thumb Tack remedy to heavy feet. From: "Peter Zutrauen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" The stops do make sense, but I believe the original reference was to the situation where one is pushing hard on both pedals equally as one would if using toe-brakes trying to stop in a straight line. -----Original Message----- From: DaveBuzz@aol.com [mailto:DaveBuzz@aol.com] Subject: Re: Europa-List: Thumb Tack remedy to heavy feet. --> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com one other method is to cut and bolt in a couple of pieces of nylon rod about 1 inch dia (eg spare outrigger rod) through the firewall, so that the top front of the rudder pedals contact the nylon rods just after max rudder deflection. This needs a bit of experimentation, but cut the rods slightly undersize and they can always be lengthened by adding penny washers. The main advantage is that the stop is readily felt at max deflection and is fitted where the force is applied, ie under your foot! chus, dave > >Tony and heavy footed co. >I hope you have therefore installed Graham Singletons rudder mod, as otherwise Graham tells me the combined force due to the very high mechanical advantage of pushing, especially with both feet, is about 800 lbs, and all of this is concentrated on your bottom rudder hinge....... ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:49 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: CS04 tufnol bearings --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" John, Many thanks - just the info I need. Am I right to assume that the ribs are equidistant (i.e. each 55mm) from the centreline of the tunnel under the seat? I know that sounds pedantic, but... Kind regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JohnDHeykoop@aol.com --> Europa-List message posted by: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Jeremy It is not the bolts but the large AN970-3 washers that you need to worry about. My plywood ribs are 110mm apart which gives me a few mm clearance from the washers. John XS Mono kit#536 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:49 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" > > By 'upgrading' I mean the process by which some people have changed these 1/4" pins to 5/16" pins and reamed out the holes accordingly - 'oversizing' you call it. David, You've got a crossed message here... The pip pins, as you correctly describe, are used to hold the stabililators to the torque tube. The oversizing has not been done to these but to the pins within the body of the aircraft holding the central parts of the torque tube together. As you will see, these pins are retained with split pins and are therefore referred to as permanent pins. Tony ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:11 PM PST US From: "craig ellison" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" All, There was a question a few days ago concerning the fuel line requirements for Rotax 912, 912S, and 914 engines. I didn't see any responses . I'm fitting out my fuel system now for a 914 and have run a 1/4 " ID versatube line from the firewall back to the fuel pumps. Is this adequate? Or should it be 3/8". Any advice from those who have gone before much appreciated. Thanks craig ellison a205 silverton, or ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" > > > > > > By 'upgrading' I mean the process by which some people have changed > these > 1/4" pins to 5/16" pins and reamed out the holes accordingly - > 'oversizing' > you call it. > > David, > > You've got a crossed message here... > > The pip pins, as you correctly describe, are used to hold the > stabililators to the torque tube. > > The oversizing has not been done to these but to the pins within the > body of the aircraft holding the central parts of the torque tube > together. As you will see, these pins are retained with split pins and > are therefore referred to as permanent pins. > > Tony > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:00 PM PST US From: "paul stewart" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted --> Europa-List message posted by: "paul stewart" Tony Sorry to correct you but as David now knows I have oversized the pip pins as a result of messing up the original drilling of the tail plane bushes and am the proud owner of 2 useless 1/4" pip pins which I'm in the process of getting to him. Regards Paul #432 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" > > > > > > By 'upgrading' I mean the process by which some people have changed > these > 1/4" pins to 5/16" pins and reamed out the holes accordingly - > 'oversizing' > you call it. > > David, > > You've got a crossed message here... > > The pip pins, as you correctly describe, are used to hold the > stabililators to the torque tube. > > The oversizing has not been done to these but to the pins within the > body of the aircraft holding the central parts of the torque tube > together. As you will see, these pins are retained with split pins and > are therefore referred to as permanent pins. > > Tony > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Required tools From: James H Nelson --> Europa-List message posted by: James H Nelson Simon, If you do the reverse mounting for the door cylinders, you won't need the tap for the mounting ball pins. You just drill holes in the new mounting tab and in the airframe. (Its a better way) Jim ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:34 PM PST US From: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: CS04 tufnol bearings --> Europa-List message posted by: JohnDHeykoop@aol.com Jeremy Yes, they are equidistant. John >Many thanks - just the info I need. Am I right to assume that the ribs are >equidistant (i.e. each 55mm) from the centreline of the tunnel under the >seat? ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:47 PM PST US From: Rowland & Wilma Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: Blue Mountain EFIS --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland & Wilma Carson At 08:59 -0500 on 25-03-03, irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu wrote: >I placed the magnetometer in the intra-door panel of the fuse top Ira - did you mean to write "inter-door", ie "between the doors"? I understand "intra-door" as "within the door". regards Rowland | PFA 16532 EAA 168386 Young Eagles Flight Leader 017623 | 500 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:21 PM PST US From: "Robert Berube" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax --> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" Craig, The minimum for the 914 is 5/16 ID which is included with the firewall forward kit. If you are planning on using aluminum fuel lines with AN aircraft fittings, you will need to go with 3/8 ID since 5/16 AN flare fittings are generally not available. Regards, Bob Berube A166 Conventional ----- Original Message ----- From: "craig ellison" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax > --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" > > All, There was a question a few days ago concerning the fuel line > requirements for Rotax 912, 912S, and 914 engines. I didn't see any > responses . I'm fitting out my fuel system now for a 914 and have run a 1/4 > " ID versatube line from the firewall back to the fuel pumps. Is this > adequate? Or should it be 3/8". Any advice from those who have gone before > much appreciated. Thanks > > craig ellison > a205 > silverton, or > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" > To: > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" > > > > > > > > > > By 'upgrading' I mean the process by which some people have changed > > these > > 1/4" pins to 5/16" pins and reamed out the holes accordingly - > > 'oversizing' > > you call it. > > > > David, > > > > You've got a crossed message here... > > > > The pip pins, as you correctly describe, are used to hold the > > stabililators to the torque tube. > > > > The oversizing has not been done to these but to the pins within the > > body of the aircraft holding the central parts of the torque tube > > together. As you will see, these pins are retained with split pins and > > are therefore referred to as permanent pins. > > > > Tony > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:30 PM PST US From: "Trems" Subject: Europa-List: Aircraft to get PPL --> Europa-List message posted by: "Trems" Hi all' Well I have been going around and talking with the different companies that train pilots here in Las Vegas. One of them I really like and they said if I really want to get trained in a low wing aircraft then I may want to wait about one month. They will be getting a new aircraft in it's a CH-2000 http://www.newplane.com/amd/ch2000.html this aircraft would of course cost more to get trained in. I did talk with one instructor and he said that it really is not that big of a deal going from a high wing to a low wing aircraft. I wanted to see what ya'll thought about this. Any info on this would be a very big help. Thanks for any input Allan ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:50 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Aircraft to get PPL From: "Peter Zutrauen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" I have very little experience, being a low-time pilot, but I believe that the Katana is the closest to the Europa in airborne handling. In fact with the long wings, it was startling how it felt like a Katana (adverse yaw and all). From my very limited exposure to Cessnas, I found them to be much more stable (and truck-like ;-) than the Katana especially when you start inputting rudder. That said, I believe flying is flying.... I would hazard a guess that the airborne handling differences between the common types are relatively minor to a student pilot. At the time I started training I chose the Katana because I found the handling "more fun" than the Cessnas, and the great visibility was addictive. Again, these are the only the opinions of a low-time pilot. I suspect the more seasoned out there may have a different cut at it. Cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: Trems [mailto:Tremsx2@lvcm.com] Subject: Europa-List: Aircraft to get PPL --> Europa-List message posted by: "Trems" Hi all' Well I have been going around and talking with the different companies that train pilots here in Las Vegas. One of them I really like and they said if I really want to get trained in a low wing aircraft then I may want to wait about one month. They will be getting a new aircraft in it's a CH-2000 http://www.newplane.com/amd/ch2000.html this aircraft would of course cost more to get trained in. I did talk with one instructor and he said that it really is not that big of a deal going from a high wing to a low wing aircraft. I wanted to see what ya'll thought about this. Any info on this would be a very big help. Thanks for any input Allan ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:53 PM PST US From: "craig ellison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" Hi Bob, Thanks for your input. Since I don't have the firewall forward kit yet I wasn't sure what the engine needs for fuel flow. What I've done will be easy enough to switch over to 3/8". BTW is there any word yet on stainless steel fuel filler tubes? I still need one when they're available. Thanks much for your help. craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Berube" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" > > Craig, > The minimum for the 914 is 5/16 ID which is included with the firewall > forward kit. If you are planning on using aluminum fuel lines with AN > aircraft fittings, you will need to go with 3/8 ID since 5/16 AN flare > fittings are generally not available. > Regards, > Bob Berube A166 Conventional > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "craig ellison" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" > > > > > All, There was a question a few days ago concerning the fuel line > > requirements for Rotax 912, 912S, and 914 engines. I didn't see any > > responses . I'm fitting out my fuel system now for a 914 and have run a > 1/4 > > " ID versatube line from the firewall back to the fuel pumps. Is this > > adequate? Or should it be 3/8". Any advice from those who have gone > before > > much appreciated. Thanks > > > > craig ellison > > a205 > > silverton, or > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" > > To: > > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By 'upgrading' I mean the process by which some people have changed > > > these > > > 1/4" pins to 5/16" pins and reamed out the holes accordingly - > > > 'oversizing' > > > you call it. > > > > > > David, > > > > > > You've got a crossed message here... > > > > > > The pip pins, as you correctly describe, are used to hold the > > > stabililators to the torque tube. > > > > > > The oversizing has not been done to these but to the pins within the > > > body of the aircraft holding the central parts of the torque tube > > > together. As you will see, these pins are retained with split pins and > > > are therefore referred to as permanent pins. > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:34 PM PST US From: "craig ellison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" Thanks for the responses Bob,Cliff,Kevin and Ferg on fuel line requirements. What a great help the Europa family is! craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Berube" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" > > Craig, > The minimum for the 914 is 5/16 ID which is included with the firewall > forward kit. If you are planning on using aluminum fuel lines with AN > aircraft fittings, you will need to go with 3/8 ID since 5/16 AN flare > fittings are generally not available. > Regards, > Bob Berube A166 Conventional > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "craig ellison" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" > > > > > All, There was a question a few days ago concerning the fuel line > > requirements for Rotax 912, 912S, and 914 engines. I didn't see any > > responses . I'm fitting out my fuel system now for a 914 and have run a > 1/4 > > " ID versatube line from the firewall back to the fuel pumps. Is this > > adequate? Or should it be 3/8". Any advice from those who have gone > before > > much appreciated. Thanks > > > > craig ellison > > a205 > > silverton, or > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" > > To: > > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pip-pin wanted > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By 'upgrading' I mean the process by which some people have changed > > > these > > > 1/4" pins to 5/16" pins and reamed out the holes accordingly - > > > 'oversizing' > > > you call it. > > > > > > David, > > > > > > You've got a crossed message here... > > > > > > The pip pins, as you correctly describe, are used to hold the > > > stabililators to the torque tube. > > > > > > The oversizing has not been done to these but to the pins within the > > > body of the aircraft holding the central parts of the torque tube > > > together. As you will see, these pins are retained with split pins and > > > are therefore referred to as permanent pins. > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:16 PM PST US From: DJA727@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Crosswinds and hot starts --> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com Hi, They are not related, but....... I did my first true cross wind landings today in the mini U2 and after much anticipation, it turned out to be a non event. All I can say is I just did it and didn't think too much about it. I have 67 landings now without bending anything! I also confirmed the hot start technique with the 914 leaving the pumps off. For whatever reason, it seems to work. The start was still not easy, but three times I could turn on the pump and the engine would die immediately. I did it three times. Just throwing more data out into the wind, so to speak! Dave A227 Mini U2 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:59 PM PST US From: "David DeFord" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax --> Europa-List message posted by: "David DeFord" Craig, Don't forget that you will also need a return fuel line from the engine back to the tank. For the 912S, the supply line is 5/16" and the return line is 1/4". If the 914 can also use 1/4" return line, you may not have to remove what you have already installed. Return flow is greater for the 914 than it is for the 912S, however, so the return line may also have to be larger. Dave DeFord N135TD > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > craig ellison > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:15 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel line requiremnets for Rotax > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" > --> > > Hi Bob, > > Thanks for your input. Since I don't have the firewall > forward kit yet I wasn't sure what the engine needs for fuel > flow. What I've done will be easy enough to switch over to > 3/8". BTW is there any word yet on stainless steel fuel > filler tubes? I still need one when they're available. > > Thanks much for your help. > > craig