Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:19 AM - new builders? (Richard)
2. 09:52 AM - Re: Wing supports (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
3. 10:35 AM - Re: Fuel Tubing Choice (Fred Fillinger)
4. 11:43 AM - Neubie composite question (Ronald J. Parigoris)
5. 12:02 PM - Neubie Painting questions (Ronald J. Parigoris)
6. 12:07 PM - Re: Neubie Painting questions (Ronald J. Parigoris)
7. 12:27 PM - Re: Neubie composite question (R.C.Harrison)
8. 12:49 PM - Re: Neubie composite question (R.C.Harrison)
9. 01:23 PM - Re: Neubie composite question (Cy Galley)
10. 01:35 PM - Re: Neubie composite question (Raimo Toivio)
11. 02:49 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
12. 03:02 PM - Kudos to Flight Crafters and Europa for two great gatherings! (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
13. 04:36 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon (Kevin Klinefelter)
14. 04:52 PM - Re: Neubie composite question (Kevin Klinefelter)
15. 06:49 PM - Re: Neubie Painting questions (Fred Fillinger)
16. 08:22 PM - Reinforcing Aileron Box Brackets within Module (Tony Renshaw)
17. 09:00 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon (Joseph J. Like)
18. 10:29 PM - New Cowls ex California (Tony Renshaw)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
To make room in my workshop, I have a cloth box / cutting table made to
factory spec from 3.4 in. MDF and a quantity of polystyrene sheets 2in. &
3in. thick suitable for a curing oven for flying surfaces. Also a thermostat
to control curing temperatures.
Free to good home but needs collecting from NW UK.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Contact me off forum if interested.
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wing supports |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Has anyone given any thought to using one of those roll around engine stands?
It seems like an engine stand that rotates could easily be used to support
either wings or the fuselage. Since they rotate, it would make it very easy
to flip either over for painting or building. I've seen cheap ones (<$75)
that will support 1000 lbs in Northern Tools catalog. A simple jig could be
made to pin to the end of the spar tang and, in my case, the tip end would
pivot on the hole for the tip nav/strobe light. With the fuselage it would
just bolt right up to the motor mount.
Comments?
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tubing Choice |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger <fillinger@ameritech.net>
MJKTuck@cs.com wrote:
> I will have to replace it. I thought I might use the Aircraft Spuce supplied
> Polyurethane tubing which they say is unaffected by fuel and has good
> abrasion and tear resistance (it's tough stuff to cut and kind of rubbery to
> the touch), or should I go for the Bing Alcohol Resistant Fuel Line which
> features 'excellent resistance to gasoline, oil, etc.?'.
>
> I couldn't find the black cotton covered type in the Aircraft Spruce book but
> I am not overly impressed by it anyway.
>
> Any comments on my choice would be welcomed.
Consider 5/16" fuel hose from an auto parts store.
Best,
Fred F.
N3EU
Message 4
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| Subject: | Neubie composite question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> My partner Wayne has a truck with XS Monowheel, Firewall back, A-265 just leaving
> Florida as we speak on the way back to NY. Just in time for the snow storm.
Renting a T hangar, not insulated with a 100,000BTU space heater, using a Beckman
home oilburner, but are running it on kerosene.
I kinda sortta think curing epoxy is not going to like the moisture created from
heater.
I have a 20 by 20 garage that is unheated but insulated. I do have a 50,000 BTU
Space heater and Wayne has a heated basement, about 12 x 15 usable area.
A few basic questions about working with epoxy:
What temperature/humidity for what length of time is ideal?
What temperature/humidity for what length of time can you get away with?
Any suggestions how to keep heat up for the cure? Infared lamps? Spot lamps? Other?
Is it a good idea to keep samples of mixed epoxy with notes as to where you used
the
mix?
Kit has accelerated tailplane and accelerated cockpit. What areas are the least
critical to begin with?
What areas are most critical, should be done last?
Sincerly thanks for your help.
We know how to follow complicated build manuals (which either has not seen as of
yet
for Europa), but find often after builds that there is a better way than depicted.
Fair amount of experiance between Wayne and myself with West System on Boats, and
model airplane work.
Ron Parigoris
Message 5
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| Subject: | Neubie Painting questions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> Have some Neubie Painting questions:
What type of primers can be used over composites?
What type of top coats can be used over composite primer?
We are not looking for a nice ultimate finish. Not show stopper quality that if
hangar rash hurt, or trailer transport scuffed, you would feel terrable, and would
need an expert to repair.
Thinking prettty hard about painting ourselves, so when anything happens we can
repair.
One option is to rent some space at an already set up spray booth.
I am a hot Air Balloonist. More than half of my flying is done at the break of
dawn.
Heard of an old timer IA who used to store fuse, or wings in a garage or hangar
with
a bit of heat so it was warmer than outside. He would wait till high pressure was
overhead and it was dead still in the AM. Would bring out the item to be painted
and
paint outdoors with dew still on ground. Pollen and dust would be held in obeyance.
Finished planes are told to me to look aweful nice , with very minimal debris
in
surface.
Granted you need to spray when conditions cooperate, but is this a feasable
technique for an europa?
As far as smaller stuff, not composite, thinking pretty hard about self etching
Dupont 615S Variprime (use real good gloves) and Dupont Imron (have real good fresh
air source) using a homemade spray booth using furnace filters and 220V fans in
my
garage.
Are there any parts on the Europa that self etching primer may effect thier
structural integrity?
Is Dupont Imron an acceptable final coat for composites?
Sincerly
Ron Parigoris
Ron Parigoris
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Neubie Painting questions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Do Not Arcive
OOOOPPPPPS
"We are not looking for a nice ultimate finish"
We are looking for a nice ultimate finish.
Ron Parigoris
Message 7
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| Subject: | Neubie composite question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Ronald./Wayne.
The working and curing temperatures as listed in the manual need to be
observed for the requisite bond strengths to be achieved .
Any form of space heater utilising oil/Parafin burners (unless the burn't
gasses are directed outside and so don't contribute to the humidity) are
IMHO a NO NO! Too much water laden atmosphere. Suggest hot water filled
central heating radiators, electric oil filled radiators,
mass electric storage heaters or electric hot air blowers, also the use of
"dehumidifiers" is very effective. I also sealed my garage floor with a
polyurethane painted membrane since there wasn't one put underneath on
construction, I insulated the steel "Up and Over " door, this reminds me
that I must turn the radiator off since it's now spring and the garage no
longer needs priority over the house !!!!! I wouldn't use lamps which
concentrate the energy into spots. It's a general heat you need all over the
construction or you may get differential expansion inducing stresses and any
polystyrene foam constructions need to be given time to loose the heat from
the chemical process since it is an insulator it'self! The sample records of
mixes would be somewhat complicated to keep, the really important factors in
getting the bond right is with the correct and adequate ABRAIDING of the
parts to be bonded.
I'm no authority myself but feel that this kind of logic is best followed.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337/MKI/Jabiru 3300 #084
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald J.
Parigoris
Subject: Europa-List: Neubie composite question
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> My partner Wayne has a truck with XS Monowheel, Firewall back, A-265 just
leaving
> Florida as we speak on the way back to NY. Just in time for the snow
storm.
Renting a T hangar, not insulated with a 100,000BTU space heater, using a
Beckman
home oilburner, but are running it on kerosene.
I kinda sortta think curing epoxy is not going to like the moisture created
from
heater.
I have a 20 by 20 garage that is unheated but insulated. I do have a 50,000
BTU
Space heater and Wayne has a heated basement, about 12 x 15 usable area.
A few basic questions about working with epoxy:
What temperature/humidity for what length of time is ideal?
What temperature/humidity for what length of time can you get away with?
Any suggestions how to keep heat up for the cure? Infared lamps? Spot lamps?
Other?
Is it a good idea to keep samples of mixed epoxy with notes as to where you
used the
mix?
Kit has accelerated tailplane and accelerated cockpit. What areas are the
least
critical to begin with?
What areas are most critical, should be done last?
Sincerly thanks for your help.
We know how to follow complicated build manuals (which either has not seen
as of yet
for Europa), but find often after builds that there is a better way than
depicted.
Fair amount of experiance between Wayne and myself with West System on
Boats, and
model airplane work.
Ron Parigoris
Message 8
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| Subject: | Neubie composite question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Ronald and Wayne
Just a further point to remember is that ALL the products you use in the
epoxy work need to be "heat soaked" to be at the correct temps even prior to
the mixing and application ....including the glass cloth and polystyrene.
It takes a number of hours for cans of the resin to be up to standard
temperatures and then the application is easier and isn't so resin rich and
therefore is of lighter construction.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Neubie composite question
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Ronald./Wayne.
The working and curing temperatures as listed in the manual need to be
observed for the requisite bond strengths to be achieved .
Any form of space heater utilising oil/Parafin burners (unless the burn't
gasses are directed outside and so don't contribute to the humidity) are
IMHO a NO NO! Too much water laden atmosphere. Suggest hot water filled
central heating radiators, electric oil filled radiators,
mass electric storage heaters or electric hot air blowers, also the use of
"dehumidifiers" is very effective. I also sealed my garage floor with a
polyurethane painted membrane since there wasn't one put underneath on
construction, I insulated the steel "Up and Over " door, this reminds me
that I must turn the radiator off since it's now spring and the garage no
longer needs priority over the house !!!!! I wouldn't use lamps which
concentrate the energy into spots. It's a general heat you need all over the
construction or you may get differential expansion inducing stresses and any
polystyrene foam constructions need to be given time to loose the heat from
the chemical process since it is an insulator it'self! The sample records of
mixes would be somewhat complicated to keep, the really important factors in
getting the bond right is with the correct and adequate ABRAIDING of the
parts to be bonded.
I'm no authority myself but feel that this kind of logic is best followed.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337/MKI/Jabiru 3300 #084
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald J.
Parigoris
Subject: Europa-List: Neubie composite question
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> My partner Wayne has a truck with XS Monowheel, Firewall back, A-265 just
leaving
> Florida as we speak on the way back to NY. Just in time for the snow
storm.
Renting a T hangar, not insulated with a 100,000BTU space heater, using a
Beckman
home oilburner, but are running it on kerosene.
I kinda sortta think curing epoxy is not going to like the moisture created
from
heater.
I have a 20 by 20 garage that is unheated but insulated. I do have a 50,000
BTU
Space heater and Wayne has a heated basement, about 12 x 15 usable area.
A few basic questions about working with epoxy:
What temperature/humidity for what length of time is ideal?
What temperature/humidity for what length of time can you get away with?
Any suggestions how to keep heat up for the cure? Infared lamps? Spot lamps?
Other?
Is it a good idea to keep samples of mixed epoxy with notes as to where you
used the
mix?
Kit has accelerated tailplane and accelerated cockpit. What areas are the
least
critical to begin with?
What areas are most critical, should be done last?
Sincerly thanks for your help.
We know how to follow complicated build manuals (which either has not seen
as of yet
for Europa), but find often after builds that there is a better way than
depicted.
Fair amount of experiance between Wayne and myself with West System on
Boats, and
model airplane work.
Ron Parigoris
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Neubie composite question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
With a non-vented oil burner I would worry about an oil film contaminating
the bonds. This should not be a problem with a non-vented propane heater but
the moisture problem may be. I will ask Gary Hunter, Shell's resin man.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Neubie composite question
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison"
<ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
>
> Hi! Ronald./Wayne.
> The working and curing temperatures as listed in the manual need to be
> observed for the requisite bond strengths to be achieved .
> Any form of space heater utilising oil/Parafin burners (unless the burn't
> gasses are directed outside and so don't contribute to the humidity) are
> IMHO a NO NO! Too much water laden atmosphere. Suggest hot water filled
> central heating radiators, electric oil filled radiators,
> mass electric storage heaters or electric hot air blowers, also the use
of
> "dehumidifiers" is very effective. I also sealed my garage floor with a
> polyurethane painted membrane since there wasn't one put underneath on
> construction, I insulated the steel "Up and Over " door, this reminds me
> that I must turn the radiator off since it's now spring and the garage no
> longer needs priority over the house !!!!! I wouldn't use lamps which
> concentrate the energy into spots. It's a general heat you need all over
the
> construction or you may get differential expansion inducing stresses and
any
> polystyrene foam constructions need to be given time to loose the heat
from
> the chemical process since it is an insulator it'self! The sample records
of
> mixes would be somewhat complicated to keep, the really important factors
in
> getting the bond right is with the correct and adequate ABRAIDING of the
> parts to be bonded.
> I'm no authority myself but feel that this kind of logic is best followed.
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337/MKI/Jabiru 3300 #084
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald J.
> Parigoris
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Neubie composite question
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
> <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> > My partner Wayne has a truck with XS Monowheel, Firewall back, A-265
just
> leaving
> > Florida as we speak on the way back to NY. Just in time for the snow
> storm.
>
> Renting a T hangar, not insulated with a 100,000BTU space heater, using a
> Beckman
> home oilburner, but are running it on kerosene.
>
> I kinda sortta think curing epoxy is not going to like the moisture
created
> from
> heater.
>
> I have a 20 by 20 garage that is unheated but insulated. I do have a
50,000
> BTU
> Space heater and Wayne has a heated basement, about 12 x 15 usable area.
>
> A few basic questions about working with epoxy:
>
> What temperature/humidity for what length of time is ideal?
>
> What temperature/humidity for what length of time can you get away with?
>
> Any suggestions how to keep heat up for the cure? Infared lamps? Spot
lamps?
> Other?
>
> Is it a good idea to keep samples of mixed epoxy with notes as to where
you
> used the
> mix?
>
> Kit has accelerated tailplane and accelerated cockpit. What areas are the
> least
> critical to begin with?
>
> What areas are most critical, should be done last?
>
> Sincerly thanks for your help.
>
> We know how to follow complicated build manuals (which either has not seen
> as of yet
> for Europa), but find often after builds that there is a better way than
> depicted.
>
> Fair amount of experiance between Wayne and myself with West System on
> Boats, and
> model airplane work.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Neubie composite question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm-systems.fi>
> Is it a good idea to keep samples of mixed epoxy with notes as to where you used
the
> mix?
I think it is a real good idea!
If you hassle something,
you will later know is it critical
(and repair if necessary).
It improves your sleep quality.
I have so far 167 pcs of different samples
(BM half way). I make also a perfect book-keeping
for every sample to know
- what
- where
- when
- temperature (around 22C)
- moisture (always below 40%)
- other details
I will give all those samples for specific lab to control them
(when it is completed - not before).
Beer caps are exellent sample cups.
Hope this helps.
Raimo M W Toivio
OH-XRT #417
OH-CVK
OH-BLL
37500 Lempaala
Finland
tel + 358 3 3753 777
fax + 358 3 3753 100
gsm + 358 40 590 1450
raimo.toivio@rwm-systems.fi
www.rwm-systems.fi
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Just returned from Sun-N-Fun where I was able to chat at length with
representatives from Blue Mountain and Grand Rapids Technologies. Looking
closely at both I saw some obvious pro's and con's.
Blue Mountain:
Pro - Nice big screen, unbelievable list of functions including all engine
instrumentation, flight instruments, virtual VOR, and built in moving map
GPS.
Con - Large box for processor, seemed "cobbled together" from off the shelf
components to my engineering eyes. Size might be hard to hide in a Europa
panel. Normal sub "D" style multi-pin connectors used for component inputs.
Usually these type connectors are not RF shielded and it seems to me this
could cause problems. The representative, although obviously very
knowledgeable about the product, ducked 2 specific questions I posed in
regard to RF shielding of the box and connectors. I thought this unit was
very pricey. The quote given was $12,500 following by a chuckling "but it's
going up to $14,500 next month because we can". The more I thought about it
the more this comment totally turned me off to the company.
Grand Rapids Technologies -
Pro - Very nice, colorful display, although about 40% the size of Blue
Mountain. Does virtually everything the Blue Mountain does for about half the
money (roughly $7300 with engine monitoring and fuel flow was quoted) Small
sized, easily will fit in a Europa panel. Staff was very knowledgeable and
answered technical questions very specifically. Uses USB port recorder "key"
for engine and flight data dump.
Con - Does not include GPS, but it interfaces to most common hand held units.
Separate module needed for graphical engine display. Won't be available until
October.
Anybody else have any comments?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 12
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| Subject: | Kudos to Flight Crafters and Europa for two great gatherings! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
I attended both Flight Crafters open house and Europa's dinner and I'd like
to take this opportunity to thank both for a great time.
The Flight Crafters folks were very hospitable (even to those of us going it
alone) and it sure was a great inspiration to see so many Europa's in various
stages of build. I know I must have taken well over 100 pictures for future
reference as to where I'm headed with my kit in the coming months. The
burgers were great, the beer was cold, and the camaraderie was superb. Well
worth the 9 hour drive to attend. Anybody who hasn't seen Bob Berube's Europa
is missing a real gem. I can't wait to hear how it fly's.
Not to be left out, the Europa dinner was equally great in the sharing of
ideas, the food, and ice cold beer. John arranged door prizes from several
vendors and it's safe to say that a good time was had by all.
Thanks again for everybody's hospitality!
Now, time to get back to work..............
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 13
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
I bought grand rapids EIS after last years S&F. The staff answered my
questions so that even I could understand. They seem to have a pretty good
reputation among the homebuilding crowd. So now I am thinking about their
EFIS horizon. I am a VFR sometimes at night kind of pilot and am wondering
what else I might want include in the panel for flight inst. (backup) if
anything?
My goal is to fly my Europa in late 2003. One thought I had is to put an
airspeed and altimeter in now and get the EFIS later. The old AS and ALT
could then become backups. Any thoughts?
Kevin, A211
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology
Horizon
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Just returned from Sun-N-Fun where I was able to chat at length with
representatives from Blue Mountain and Grand Rapids Technologies. Looking
closely at both I saw some obvious pro's and con's.
Blue Mountain:
Pro - Nice big screen, unbelievable list of functions including all engine
instrumentation, flight instruments, virtual VOR, and built in moving map
GPS.
Con - Large box for processor, seemed "cobbled together" from off the shelf
components to my engineering eyes. Size might be hard to hide in a Europa
panel. Normal sub "D" style multi-pin connectors used for component inputs.
Usually these type connectors are not RF shielded and it seems to me this
could cause problems. The representative, although obviously very
knowledgeable about the product, ducked 2 specific questions I posed in
regard to RF shielding of the box and connectors. I thought this unit was
very pricey. The quote given was $12,500 following by a chuckling "but it's
going up to $14,500 next month because we can". The more I thought about it
the more this comment totally turned me off to the company.
Grand Rapids Technologies -
Pro - Very nice, colorful display, although about 40% the size of Blue
Mountain. Does virtually everything the Blue Mountain does for about half
the
money (roughly $7300 with engine monitoring and fuel flow was quoted) Small
sized, easily will fit in a Europa panel. Staff was very knowledgeable and
answered technical questions very specifically. Uses USB port recorder "key"
for engine and flight data dump.
Con - Does not include GPS, but it interfaces to most common hand held
units.
Separate module needed for graphical engine display. Won't be available
until
October.
Anybody else have any comments?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 14
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| Subject: | Neubie composite question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
I use a propane heater in my well insulated attached garage/shop. At 5'000
feet in the desert humidity is not the problem it is for most folks. You
want temps to be 70F or better for epoxy to cure. I keep the at 60F or so
its easy to heat up to 70F+ in a short time. I don't want the parts I am
working on to get real cold. I use an epoxy cabinet heated with a 40watt
light bulb to keep the sticky stuff at 80F+. The front of the cabinet folds
down to become the mixing & measuring table.
Use of a hair dryer helps get the epoxy less viscous and whets out the glass
easier.
Use peel ply on everything, get rolls of 2&3" for all the "bid tapes".
Kevin A211
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald J.
Parigoris
Subject: Europa-List: Neubie composite question
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> My partner Wayne has a truck with XS Monowheel, Firewall back, A-265 just
leaving
> Florida as we speak on the way back to NY. Just in time for the snow
storm.
Renting a T hangar, not insulated with a 100,000BTU space heater, using a
Beckman
home oilburner, but are running it on kerosene.
I kinda sortta think curing epoxy is not going to like the moisture created
from
heater.
I have a 20 by 20 garage that is unheated but insulated. I do have a 50,000
BTU
Space heater and Wayne has a heated basement, about 12 x 15 usable area.
A few basic questions about working with epoxy:
What temperature/humidity for what length of time is ideal?
What temperature/humidity for what length of time can you get away with?
Any suggestions how to keep heat up for the cure? Infared lamps? Spot lamps?
Other?
Is it a good idea to keep samples of mixed epoxy with notes as to where you
used the
mix?
Kit has accelerated tailplane and accelerated cockpit. What areas are the
least
critical to begin with?
What areas are most critical, should be done last?
Sincerly thanks for your help.
We know how to follow complicated build manuals (which either has not seen
as of yet
for Europa), but find often after builds that there is a better way than
depicted.
Fair amount of experiance between Wayne and myself with West System on
Boats, and
model airplane work.
Ron Parigoris
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Neubie Painting questions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger <fillinger@ameritech.net>
>>Have some Neubie Painting questions:
> What type of primers can be used over composites?
For a physical bond, any primer will work according to System III
Resins, except they as do others recommend that the primer be formulated
to provide UV protection.
> What type of top coats can be used over composite primer?
The UV stuff can limit choices, as all topcoat mfrs say use their
specified primer. However, there are nontechnical reasons for saying
that, and one mfr says otherwise that a test coat followed by the
fingernail scratch test, after good cure time, is sufficient to test a
different mfr's top coat.
> Heard of an old timer IA who used to store fuse, or wings in a garage
> or hangar with a bit of heat so it was warmer than outside. Would
> bring out the item to be painted and paint outdoors with dew still
> on ground. Pollen and dust would be held in obeyance.
Huh?? You're shooting hundreds of square feet, multiple coats, minimum
specified time between. Won't temps equalize in mere minutes?
> Granted you need to spray when conditions cooperate, but is this a feasable
> technique for an europa?
IME, the right conditions can minimize dust, but not insects. They lead
boring lives, until finding $400/gallon paint to ruin. The death
struggle can damage a large area. How about an outside spray booth from
PVC pipe or lumber and plastic sheet?
> As far as smaller stuff, not composite, thinking pretty hard about self etching
> Dupont 615S Variprime (use real good gloves) and Dupont Imron (have real good
fresh
> air source) using a homemade spray booth using furnace filters and 220V fans
in my
> garage.
IMO, a solvent polyurethane is expensive overkill for small parts as is
a spray booth. A big factor for painted metal parts is resistance to
abrasion (installation, maintenance), and the primer alone can do the
job. I have found two-part epoxy chromate primer (e.g., PolyFiber
EP-420) adheres tenaciously. Anything in a spray can, in comparison,
does not; nor does any lacquer.
> Are there any parts on the Europa that self etching primer may effect thier
> structural integrity?
I hope not! The etching is microscopic, and if the parts are that
marginally designed, I suggest refabricating them with thicker stock! :-)
> Is Dupont Imron an acceptable final coat for composites?
All solvent polyurethanes do a great job on aluminum, plastic and steel,
but they cannot be spot repaired without looking like a repair. Shops
will shoot a repair panel-to-panel, but on a composite plane, the entire
fuselage counts as one panel! Solvent polys are also very tricky to
shoot for the amateur, and my 3rd plane (despite half-dozen cars before
that) came out acceptable.
Regards,
Fred F.
N3EU
Message 16
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| Subject: | Reinforcing Aileron Box Brackets within Module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@ozemail.com.au>
Gidday,
Some time ago there was an excerpt from a Europa Newsletter that stated it
was a good idea to reinforce the aileron bellcrank brackets (3 sides of a
box) on the back of the cockpit module. I have not read of anyone doing
this, nor is there a lot of room to do it. My module is pretty much ready
to do this work, and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions?
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike@cox.net>
I've just received my EFIS-D10 from Dynon. This is a very nice looking
unit. I had it upgraded with the build in backup battery so I can turn
it on even with external power. They still have not delivered the
remote mag. for heading information. I haven't seen the blue mountain
or Grand Rapids, but this unit has all the basic night VFR instruments
in one unit.
I plan on having a backup ALTIMETER, ASI and AOA, but that's it for
flight instruments. Comments from anyone?
Joseph J. Like
A086 Mono XS/Hybrid
Jabiru 3300
Message 18
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| Subject: | New Cowls ex California |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@ozemail.com.au>
Gidday,
I am fantasising a long way ahead in my project now, but it relates to
engine cowls. I think I will be using a 914 and I recall a relatively
recent thread regarding a group of people wanting to commision a fellow in
the US to design a newer slimmer engine cowl. Any updates out there please?
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
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