Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: Europa Newsgroup & Europa USA (Europa Aircraft)
2. 07:09 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon (Shaun Simpkins)
3. 08:07 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon (Gerry Holland)
4. 10:03 AM - resin for filling (paul stewart)
5. 10:37 AM - SV: Reinforcing Aileron Box Brackets within Module (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
6. 11:04 AM - Luggage tie downs (Richard)
7. 11:49 AM - Re: Luggage tie downs (Richard Holder)
8. 12:03 PM - Re: Luggage tie downs (Ami McFadyean)
9. 12:03 PM - Re: Fuel Tubing Choice (Ami McFadyean)
10. 02:02 PM - Re: Luggage tie downs (KARL HEINDL)
11. 03:25 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon (paul stewart)
12. 03:44 PM - Re: Luggage tie downs (Tim Ward)
13. 08:20 PM - Re: resin for filling (Paul McAllister)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Europa Newsgroup & Europa USA |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa Aircraft" <europa@gate.net>
Hi All,
Thanks for all the support. That means a lot to me.
I hope that you all understand, I can scan the newsgroup subject lines,
reading selected posts. However, reading all the posts would cause me to
neglect my duties in the office, most of which is builder support.
So, please, if you want to get an email message to me send it to my email
address europa@gate.net
Also, for reference, here are the other Europa factory email addresses.
Keith Wilson - Managing Director keith@europa-aircraft.com
John Hurst - Gen Manager US europa@gate.net
Andy Draper - Technical Director andy@europa-aircraft.com
Neville Eyre - Development Engineer neville@europa-aircraft.com
Roger Bull - Technical Support roger@europa-aircraft.com
Christine Allport - Accounts Manager christine@europa-aircraft.com
Ray Bedford - Parts & Logistics ray@europa-aircraft.com
Rob Daines - UK Sales Director rob@europa-aircraft.com
Hope This Helps!
John Hurst
Europa Aircraft
Lakeland, FL
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter
Zutrauen
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Newsgroup & Europa USA
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
I just saw this thread, and being the customer being referred to in
Dave's posting below (thanks again for the help Dave!), I must
third/fourth/fifth the kudos and appreciation being bestowed upon John
in Lakeland.
John does not just 'work' at Europa USA, he 'lives' Europa. When I was
in Lakeland picking up my pieces, John's commitment and dedicated level
of service and hospitality was above and beyond what could ever be
expected from a business owner. I have to think it's related to his
passion for aviation and this terrific little plane.
Thanks to John for the great effort!
Cheers,
Pete
A239 Dual-wing.
-----Original Message-----
From: DJA727@aol.com [mailto:DJA727@aol.com]
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Newsgroup
--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
In a message dated 4/2/2003 12:26:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Nick.Hammond@saabsystems.com.au writes:
> I hope I haven't misinterpreted this somehow but I was a bit surprised
that
> a US company representative "didn't have time" to read what his
customers
> were saying about his product. I had thought it was you guys who had
taught
> the rest of us what customer focus was about!
>
> I agree that there is a lot of irrelevant posting and more repetition
but,
> if you subscribe to the digest service rather than individual
messages, you
> only get one long-ish message a day. I find it takes no more than a
couple
> of minutes to skim through this for anything of interest.
>
>
A data point:
I went out to fly the long wing Europa prior to flying mine for the
first
time. It was a Saturday and I helped John load a customer's rental truck
with
his aircraft, plus another's. This was after a long day of flying with
me and
doing other things. The customer arrived at about 8PM and I left just
before
midnight with John still hard at work. He puts a tremendous amount of
time
and effort into his job and does an excellent job. I believe what he was
referring to was being able to read everything at this time during Sun &
Fun.
I know if I go more that about 2 or 3 days away from this email, it
becomes
almost unmanageable!
Dave
A227
mini U2
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns@hevanet.com>
The GRT Horizon has several other features you may not have caught:
1. The AHARs sensor is totally independent of the display processor.
2. The Horizon is actually a redundant system; buy two, make one a
moving map/Engine display, the other a PFD. If one display fails, the
other display can be configured to display the other's data. If the BMA
single display fails, you are toast. Note that BMA is trying to address
this with their EFIS lite/HSI.
3. Horizon is a flight data recorder and will have checklists.
4. Horizon has two independent power inputs that will maintain power to the
system without pilot intervention ( for example, if you have an all-electric
plane with redundant alternators, one power input goes to each alternator).
5. The Horizon display runs Windows CE. I know, does this imply "blue screen
of death" like with the Archangel? Likely not. By separating the flight-critical
componentry ( the AHARs ) from the display and providing system redundancy,
GRT may provide the same level of reliability as BMA's assembly language
program.
6. System price is a bit more than "half of BMA", but still nicely positioned
to be
cost-competitive with an all-electric gyro 6-pack. A single all-in-one
display is $6000;
with EIS and sensors, $7000.
A more realistic 2-display system with EIS driving the 2nd display is $9000
with
sensors. A dual-display, dual AHARs system with EIS and sensors is $12,500.
A basic GPS engine is $200.
A pity that BMA seems to have developed some pricing arrogance.
I wouldn't be suprised if a year from now,
BMA is up to $20K to make enough profit for BMA to be sustainable.
The BMA offers more integration of flight management functions, but the PFD
display of the Horizon is bigger and easier to read. Horizon doesn't have the
terrain-mapping of BMA, but this is getting easier to obtain. Consider
MountainScope by pcavionics. A beautiful sectional-quality terrain map, with
"windshield view", $500 and runs on a PDA or notebook computer. Maybe
pcavionics and Horizon can partner. Wouldn't be as fully integrated as BMA's,
but I believe in some independence of flight systems.
This is a year of exciting progress in aircraft flight systems.
Shaun
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Shaun Hi!
Many thanks for your very thorough overview.
Horizon has to go on my 'shopping list'!
Gerry
Gerry Holland
mailto://gnholland@onetel.com
+44 7808 402404
Europa XS 384
G-FIZY
The greatest enjoyment from existence is living dangerously....
Friedrich Nietzsche
Message 4
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| Subject: | resin for filling |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "paul stewart" <paul-d.stewart@virgin.net>
Now contemplating the task of filling and sanding. Can anyone give my a rough idea
of what sort of quantity of resin I'm likely to use (Europa XS mono) if I
use the standard filler supplied with the kit. Also have folk stuck with SP systems
(UK kits) or used other resin (I think some have gone with west epoxy).
Regards
Paul Stewart #432
Message 5
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| Subject: | Reinforcing Aileron Box Brackets within Module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
Tony,
I believe you may be referring to "Step 3" towards the end of Chapter 17 in
the Builders Manual (in my edition, at least), describing how you bond the
brackets to the fuselage outside skin AFTER you have bonded in the cockpit
module.
Regards,
Svein
A225 (now in Norway)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Luggage tie downs |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
I was wondering about fitting some sort of eyes in the baggage bay to tie
luggage down to.
Anyone got any good idea's?
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Luggage tie downs |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
> I was wondering about fitting some sort of eyes in the baggage bay to tie
> luggage down to.
>
> Anyone got any good idea's?
>
> Richard Iddon G-RIXS
This rather depends on how much weight you are going to carry.
G-OWWW weighed 875 pounds empty and with two 190 pound occupants and full
fuel (111 pounds) there is only room for 4 pounds of luggage.
Flew today, with an instructor, We investigated the envelope. The stalls
were somewhat strange.
With no flap and no power it stalled straight several times, to the right
once and to the left several times, each very quickly. The final one left us
pointing directly down. Hmmm. Stalled at about 50 knots indicated.
The instructor said that the "wind down" characteristic is built into the
aircraft and there is nothing we can do, except keep well above the stall
(!).
Anyone got any ideas ?
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, EGSG (Stapleford)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Luggage tie downs |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
I put reinforced eyes into the vestigial flange left after moving the rear
bulkhead aftwards (in the baggage bay mod. of the Classic version). The
intent was to provide a demarcation of loading area (i.e. "don't load behind
this line unless lightweight only") and to inhibit forward-loaded heavy
items from slipping backwards.
Doesn't help you much if you have the XS with no residual flanges.
The factory have yet to publish the tie-down details for the Long Ranger
auxiliary fuel tank; so that might provide some ideas too.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Luggage tie downs
>
> I was wondering about fitting some sort of eyes in the baggage bay to tie
> luggage down to.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tubing Choice |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
I've found that the black cotton covered fuel tube is totally intolerant of
mechanical stress once it has got fuel in it and had to replace all mine
prior to first flight.
The downside of polyurethane is that it can tear relatively easily and will
not bend tightly without kinking. The latter can be solved by binding with
plastic spiral wrapping, but preferably the sort that is used for hydraulic
hose chafe-protection, which is much stouter than the electrical variety.
Duncan McF
----- Original Message -----
From: <MJKTuck@cs.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Tubing Choice
> --> Europa-List message posted by: MJKTuck@cs.com
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I am taking the opportunity to change the fuel sight gauge to a new piece
of
> tubing (polyurethane tubing 0.25 ID) which will run up the passenger side
> seat back and found today when I put fuel back in the tank that I had a
small
> leak which was soaking the cloth covering on the short piece of black
rubber
> tubing from the tank to the 'tee-piece' and also from the tee to the fuel
> drain (again black cotton covered tubing).
>
> I thought it might be the new piece of tube somehow not sealing correctly
but
> after more investigation determined that the black cotton covered tubing -
> which has to be bent through 90 deg - and which had been joggled around a
bit
> while I was installing the new piece - was cracked and weeping fuel.
>
> I took it off and dissected it and sure enough although the inside looked
> smooth, when you bend it, it shows lots of tiny crack/pin holes.
>
> I will have to replace it. I thought I might use the Aircraft Spuce
supplied
> Polyurethane tubing which they say is unaffected by fuel and has good
> abrasion and tear resistance (it's tough stuff to cut and kind of rubbery
to
> the touch), or should I go for the Bing Alcohol Resistant Fuel Line which
> features 'excellent resistance to gasoline, oil, etc.?'.
>
> I couldn't find the black cotton covered type in the Aircraft Spruce book
but
> I am not overly impressed by it anyway.
>
> Any comments on my choice would be welcomed.
>
> Regards,
> Martin Tuck
> N152MT
> Wichita, Kansas
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Luggage tie downs |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Even before installing the cockpit module I prepared it for attaching
aluminum eyebolts, then I installed a few more around the baggage bay
area. I bought these from a chandlers shop in the UK, They are
attached via two screws and the preparation consists of fitting anchor
nuts in the appropriate places. The eyelets are then screwed on when
all the interior lining is in place.
Cheers , Karl
>From: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: "Europa Matronics Forum" <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: Luggage tie downs
>Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:04:29 +0100
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
>
>I was wondering about fitting some sort of eyes in the baggage bay to tie
>luggage down to.
>
>Anyone got any good idea's?
>
>Richard Iddon G-RIXS
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "paul stewart" <paul-d.stewart@virgin.net>
Interesting for those of us on the east side of the pond that BMA do not
offer ANY warranty outside the US. Not just pricing arrogance then.
Paul Stewart #432
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Luggage tie downs |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
Richard,
I put plastic P-Clips bolted to anchor nuts through the baggage floor. 6 all
together, placed at each corner of the rectangle shape and 1/2 way along the
longest side.
Then use "bungees" (bungee cord with hooks at each end) forgotten what their
real name is, you can buy down at hardware shops to place over the baggage
and hook onto the required P-clips as may be needed to hold the baggage down
according to its size.
Cheers,
Tim
Richard wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
>
> I was wondering about fitting some sort of eyes in the baggage bay to tie
> luggage down to.
>
> Anyone got any good idea's?
>
> Richard Iddon G-RIXS
>
--
Timothy P Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
NEW ZEALAND
Ph. 0064 3 3515166
email ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Mobile 025 2649325
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: resin for filling |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi Paul,
I have pretty well just finished up the last of the sanding and filling on
my Europa. I took the best part of a year because I inter dispersed it with
more interesting tasks.
I started using Expandcell and West Systems epoxy resin. I added silica
carbide to the Expandcell in a one to four ratio. I mixed up the expandcell
until is was very dry and applied it to a surface that I had put a very dry
smear of epoxy onto. On balance this worked okay, but the dry mix was hard
to spread and had a lot of pin holes. I put it on fairly thick as to get it
on one coat, and being pretty dry it sanded easily. If you want to go the
West Systems route plan on using 2 gallons of resin. (I used one before
changing over)
I started having a bit of respiratory distress with the West Systems epoxy,
even days after it had dried I would find myself coughing in the work shop
so I changed to Polyfiber's Superfil. Now this stuff is expensive, but
really nice to use. I found that if I mixed it with a bit of gentle heat I
got no pin holes, and if I applied heat when I spread it, I could get a
really nice smooth layer. I also found that I could add a bit and find that
the batch to batch consistency was the same. One balance it was much nicer
to use, but at a considerable cost. I think I used two, three gallon kits
of the stuff.
Just my 2 cents worth. - Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul stewart" <paul-d.stewart@virgin.net>
Subject: Europa-List: resin for filling
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "paul stewart"
<paul-d.stewart@virgin.net>
>
> Now contemplating the task of filling and sanding. Can anyone give my a
rough idea of what sort of quantity of resin I'm likely to use (Europa XS
mono) if I use the standard filler supplied with the kit. Also have folk
stuck with SP systems (UK kits) or used other resin (I think some have gone
with west epoxy).
>
>
> Regards
>
> Paul Stewart #432
>
>
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