Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:24 AM - Re: resin for filling (Cripps, David)
2. 01:47 AM - Re: Fuel Tubing Choice (Cripps, David)
3. 06:36 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon (Kevin Klinefelter)
4. 09:12 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon (KarkelB@aol.com)
5. 12:56 PM - Emerald Island Europa Flyout Vacancy (BRYNALL@aol.com)
6. 02:54 PM - Re: Emerald Island Europa Flyout Vacancy (Kevin Taylor)
7. 06:20 PM - Propeller (PreDial@aol.com)
8. 08:12 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon (Joseph J. Like)
9. 09:24 PM - Tailplane issue? (Ronald J. Parigoris)
10. 11:04 PM - Re: Propeller (Paul Boulet)
Message 1
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| Subject: | resin for filling |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cripps, David" <david.cripps@spsystems.com>
>>>I added silica
carbide to the Expandcell in a one to four ratio.
I assume you mean fumed (or colloidal) silica which is used for thickening a resin
mix to give a creamy, non-sag consistency? Silic(on) carbide is used as a
filler to make ultra-hard wearing surfaces which would virtually need an angle
grinder to sand down!! It is also extremely high density!
Also when using silica don't use any more than you need to get the non-sag properties
you want. Excess silica does make the final filler mix a bit harder to
sand and a bit more brittle.
As a manufacturer of epoxy resins (including the Ampreg 20 used in the UK kits),
we would suggest that there are alternative resins for filling and fairing to
Ampreg 20 which is primarily a structural laminating resin (hence its use in
the spar and the bits people fabricate themselves). Many people do use it for
filling to keep things simple and have one resin in the workshop, but products
such as SP106 (the UK equivalent to West System) are easier to sand as they
have lower structural properties (eg tensile/compressive strength and modulus)
and are a bit softer when cured. Both West and SP106 were originally designed
for bonding, filling and coating of wooden boats and so are also more tolerant
of lower cure temperatures and less than ideal (ie leaky boatyard!) conditions.
They are also a bit cheaper than Ampreg 20.
We have produced a guide to filler types and a suggested mixing table which can
be found as pdf's at:
http://www.spsystems.com/prod-ancill.htm
There is also a guide on to how to fill and fair boats (which is all very similar
to aircraft). See the menu of application guides at the bottom of the following
page:
http://www.spsystems.com/techinfo.htm
and scroll down to 'Filling and Fairing'.
Hope this helps someone.
David
Europa Classic Trigear - GBWJH
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul McAllister [mailto:paul.mcallister@qia.net]
Subject: Re: Europa-List: resin for filling
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi Paul,
I have pretty well just finished up the last of the sanding and filling on
my Europa. I took the best part of a year because I inter dispersed it with
more interesting tasks.
I started using Expandcell and West Systems epoxy resin. I added silica
carbide to the Expandcell in a one to four ratio. I mixed up the expandcell
until is was very dry and applied it to a surface that I had put a very dry
smear of epoxy onto. On balance this worked okay, but the dry mix was hard
to spread and had a lot of pin holes. I put it on fairly thick as to get it
on one coat, and being pretty dry it sanded easily. If you want to go the
West Systems route plan on using 2 gallons of resin. (I used one before
changing over)
I started having a bit of respiratory distress with the West Systems epoxy,
even days after it had dried I would find myself coughing in the work shop
so I changed to Polyfiber's Superfil. Now this stuff is expensive, but
really nice to use. I found that if I mixed it with a bit of gentle heat I
got no pin holes, and if I applied heat when I spread it, I could get a
really nice smooth layer. I also found that I could add a bit and find that
the batch to batch consistency was the same. One balance it was much nicer
to use, but at a considerable cost. I think I used two, three gallon kits
of the stuff.
Just my 2 cents worth. - Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul stewart" <paul-d.stewart@virgin.net>
Subject: Europa-List: resin for filling
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "paul stewart"
<paul-d.stewart@virgin.net>
>
> Now contemplating the task of filling and sanding. Can anyone give my a
rough idea of what sort of quantity of resin I'm likely to use (Europa XS
mono) if I use the standard filler supplied with the kit. Also have folk
stuck with SP systems (UK kits) or used other resin (I think some have gone
with west epoxy).
>
>
> Regards
>
> Paul Stewart #432
>
>
Visit SP at stand J06/L01 at the JEC Composites Show, Paris, 1st-3rd April 2003
**********************************************************************************************
All sales of goods are subject to the terms and conditions of sale (the Conditions)
of SP Systems (the Company) which are available on request from the Company
or may be viewed on our Website (http://www.spsystems.com).
Any advice given by the Company in connection with the sale of goods is given
in good faith but the company only warrants that advice in writing is given with
reasonable skill and care. All advice is otherwise given subject to the Conditions.
The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and
are intended solely for the attention and use of the addressee only.
Information contained in this message may be subject to legal,
professional or other privilege or may otherwise be protected by other
legal rules. This message should not be copied or forwarded to any other
person without the express permission of the sender. If you are not the
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or retain this message or any part of it.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fuel Tubing Choice |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cripps, David" <david.cripps@spsystems.com>
I'm just in the process of changing all my old fuel tubing to the new stuff supplied
by Europa. The old fabric covered tube that I took out (and some of the
stainless steel mesh covered tube too) appeared to be quite perished and cracked
at the ends where they had been stretched over fittings. I never had any leaks
but there was always a strong fuel smell down by in the tunnel by the fuel
tap.
Europa say that the new fuel tube is a lot more durable, so that's what I'm putting
in. Of course the ultimate would be a metal tubing system, as some have done,
but even just changing rubber tube for rubber tube is taking me a quite long
enough!
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Ami McFadyean [mailto:ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tubing Choice
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
I've found that the black cotton covered fuel tube is totally intolerant of
mechanical stress once it has got fuel in it and had to replace all mine
prior to first flight.
The downside of polyurethane is that it can tear relatively easily and will
not bend tightly without kinking. The latter can be solved by binding with
plastic spiral wrapping, but preferably the sort that is used for hydraulic
hose chafe-protection, which is much stouter than the electrical variety.
Duncan McF
----- Original Message -----
From: <MJKTuck@cs.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Tubing Choice
> --> Europa-List message posted by: MJKTuck@cs.com
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I am taking the opportunity to change the fuel sight gauge to a new piece
of
> tubing (polyurethane tubing 0.25 ID) which will run up the passenger side
> seat back and found today when I put fuel back in the tank that I had a
small
> leak which was soaking the cloth covering on the short piece of black
rubber
> tubing from the tank to the 'tee-piece' and also from the tee to the fuel
> drain (again black cotton covered tubing).
>
> I thought it might be the new piece of tube somehow not sealing correctly
but
> after more investigation determined that the black cotton covered tubing -
> which has to be bent through 90 deg - and which had been joggled around a
bit
> while I was installing the new piece - was cracked and weeping fuel.
>
> I took it off and dissected it and sure enough although the inside looked
> smooth, when you bend it, it shows lots of tiny crack/pin holes.
>
> I will have to replace it. I thought I might use the Aircraft Spuce
supplied
> Polyurethane tubing which they say is unaffected by fuel and has good
> abrasion and tear resistance (it's tough stuff to cut and kind of rubbery
to
> the touch), or should I go for the Bing Alcohol Resistant Fuel Line which
> features 'excellent resistance to gasoline, oil, etc.?'.
>
> I couldn't find the black cotton covered type in the Aircraft Spruce book
but
> I am not overly impressed by it anyway.
>
> Any comments on my choice would be welcomed.
>
> Regards,
> Martin Tuck
> N152MT
> Wichita, Kansas
>
Visit SP at stand J06/L01 at the JEC Composites Show, Paris, 1st-3rd April 2003
**********************************************************************************************
All sales of goods are subject to the terms and conditions of sale (the Conditions)
of SP Systems (the Company) which are available on request from the Company
or may be viewed on our Website (http://www.spsystems.com).
Any advice given by the Company in connection with the sale of goods is given
in good faith but the company only warrants that advice in writing is given with
reasonable skill and care. All advice is otherwise given subject to the Conditions.
The contents of this message and any attachments are confidential and
are intended solely for the attention and use of the addressee only.
Information contained in this message may be subject to legal,
professional or other privilege or may otherwise be protected by other
legal rules. This message should not be copied or forwarded to any other
person without the express permission of the sender. If you are not the
intended recipient you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute
or retain this message or any part of it.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
Shaun, Thank you very much for your thoughts on these units. Have you looked
at the Dynon unit? How does it stack up against the GRT Horizon?
Thanks again, Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Shaun Simpkins
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology
Horizon
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns@hevanet.com>
The GRT Horizon has several other features you may not have caught:
1. The AHARs sensor is totally independent of the display processor.
2. The Horizon is actually a redundant system; buy two, make one a
moving map/Engine display, the other a PFD. If one display fails,
the
other display can be configured to display the other's data. If the
BMA
single display fails, you are toast. Note that BMA is trying to
address
this with their EFIS lite/HSI.
3. Horizon is a flight data recorder and will have checklists.
4. Horizon has two independent power inputs that will maintain power to
the
system without pilot intervention ( for example, if you have an
all-electric
plane with redundant alternators, one power input goes to each
alternator).
5. The Horizon display runs Windows CE. I know, does this imply "blue
screen
of death" like with the Archangel? Likely not. By separating the
flight-critical
componentry ( the AHARs ) from the display and providing system
redundancy,
GRT may provide the same level of reliability as BMA's assembly
language
program.
6. System price is a bit more than "half of BMA", but still nicely
positioned to be
cost-competitive with an all-electric gyro 6-pack. A single
all-in-one display is $6000;
with EIS and sensors, $7000.
A more realistic 2-display system with EIS driving the 2nd display
is $9000 with
sensors. A dual-display, dual AHARs system with EIS and sensors is
$12,500.
A basic GPS engine is $200.
A pity that BMA seems to have developed some pricing arrogance.
I wouldn't be suprised if a year from now,
BMA is up to $20K to make enough profit for BMA to be sustainable.
The BMA offers more integration of flight management functions, but the PFD
display of the Horizon is bigger and easier to read. Horizon doesn't have
the
terrain-mapping of BMA, but this is getting easier to obtain. Consider
MountainScope by pcavionics. A beautiful sectional-quality terrain map,
with
"windshield view", $500 and runs on a PDA or notebook computer. Maybe
pcavionics and Horizon can partner. Wouldn't be as fully integrated as
BMA's,
but I believe in some independence of flight systems.
This is a year of exciting progress in aircraft flight systems.
Shaun
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon |
--> Europa-List message posted by: KarkelB@aol.com
Hi Folks,
just returned from sun&fun where i took an in depth look at at
all three efis.Grandrapids Horizon, Bluemountains and Dynon in addition to
putting faces to the regular folk on the forum( nice meeting you all!!)
Hats off to Greg at Grandrapids. They have done a wonderful job on the
Horizon Efis and i'm having a dual system when it hits the shelf in october.
He answered all my questions and is quietly confident of the product.I was
sold on the fact that it had all i was looking for and the price is
competitive without being prohibitive. The main efis plus a multifunction
unit will nicely fit the europa panel. I will just add an ASI , ALT and TC
and my nav122dgps.
As for the Bluemountain unit, i wasn't convinced. Did you ever hear of the
sales guy who could take off your socks while you had your shoes on? I felt i
was being given answers to questions i hadn't asked. Someone mentioned
"arrogance",i second that.I believe that was to mask the lack of
confidence.Also the idea of not having a warranty outside the states made me
look for the nearest exit.
I also checked out the dynon efis. I got the sense the product wasn't ready,
there seems to be quite a few things that needed tidying up. I wasn't sure
about the sunlight readability. The pitot head is not ready either.Those in
europe, pressure is in inches. I think its about a year away.
my thoughts
Karim.
# 420
Message 5
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| Subject: | Emerald Island Europa Flyout Vacancy |
--> Europa-List message posted by: BRYNALL@aol.com
Due to a cancellation there is now a vacancy on this trip.
The flyout starts on sunday 4th May, to Sat 10th May, and will comprise of a
group tour arround Ireland taking in several places of interest.
If your aeroplane is fit , and you fancy it, please contact me by e-mail for
more details.
Bryan Allsop
Message 6
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| Subject: | Emerald Island Europa Flyout Vacancy |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin@eastyorkshire.co.uk>
Bryan,
Sorry about this but it looks like you will have two spaces!
That is assuming the sale of my trigear goes through as expected next
weekend, which as far as I know is on.
I doubt your prepared to accept my funny looking tadpole replica Pegasus CTs
following you around on the trip.
Kind regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
BRYNALL@aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: Emerald Island Europa Flyout Vacancy
--> Europa-List message posted by: BRYNALL@aol.com
Due to a cancellation there is now a vacancy on this trip.
The flyout starts on sunday 4th May, to Sat 10th May, and will comprise of a
group tour arround Ireland taking in several places of interest.
If your aeroplane is fit , and you fancy it, please contact me by e-mail for
more details.
Bryan Allsop
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: PreDial@aol.com
Quite some time ago there was a post concerning the Rospeller prop from Germany.
The post was very flattering. Having talked to several people at SNF, it appears
the 914 needs more prop than the Airmaster / Warp blades. The Rospeller
looks to fit the bill, but I really dont want to be the only one on the block.
Jim A185
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike@cox.net>
I have the Dynon unit and it looks like Grand Rapids copied the screen.
The two screens look Identical. Dynon has been developing the D10 for
over two years and it looks very good. They still have their support
software programs to work out. The heading calibration program has not
been released but so far The unit is very good. And I like the self
contained battery backup.
Joseph J. Like
A086
Message 9
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| Subject: | Tailplane issue? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> Met up with Wayne tonight and took a look for first time at A-265 kit.
> After a bit of unpacking and looking at manual, descided to see how the
> torque tube fits into the accelerated tailplanes.
The torque tube had a little oil on it so descided to give it a try after
cleaning off a bit of resin, and cleaning out pip pin holes..
Left one went on but gets kinda tight when TP12 goes into TP13 bushings.
Wayne was warned it may be a bit tight.
Tried the right side. Horror. No way is it going to fit. TP4 tube hits the
edge of the burried TP6. Prior to trying a fitting, i cleaned a bit of resin
off of TP5. I looked at the edge of TP4 and it has a chamfer that goes at
least 1/2 the wall thickness. I light filed the chamfer to make sure, but
there is a definite alignment problem.
I made sure TP9 was positioned facing down.
This fitting was with the tailplane held by Wayne, and me holding the Torque
tube. mostly wiggle very little twisting.
Is it necessary to perhaps gorilla the tailplane onto a secure torque tube
to fit it?
I think if it were bonded with pieces aligned, the chamfer oin the torque
tube should be enough to get you into TP6.
I looked through the hole for the Pip pin, and it appears to be lined up
with TP6.
Any ideas?
I will call John at Europa tomorrow.
If my worst fears come about, and the alignment of TP6 is off, what would be
the best way of repairing?
I think a few years ago i read of this happening to someone else, and he
modified things. Can't remember what was said.
Is this a common problem?
Ron Parigoris
oh yea, our hangar was a little under 40 degrees F
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet <possible2do@yahoo.com>
I felt the same way....re inventing the wheel is not something I'm very good at
so I nixed the Rospeller prop as well. Also, a lot of what you read was before
the constant speed props were available for the 914. IMHO I don't believe
you'd gain much
Paul Boulet N914PB
PreDial@aol.com wrote:--> Europa-List message posted by: PreDial@aol.com
Quite some time ago there was a post concerning the Rospeller prop from Germany.
The post was very flattering. Having talked to several people at SNF, it appears
the 914 needs more prop than the Airmaster / Warp blades. The Rospeller looks
to fit the bill, but I really dont want to be the only one on the block.
Jim A185
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