Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:13 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 04/07/03 (Paul Atkinson)
2. 02:32 AM - Re: Tailplane issue? (Steve Hagar)
3. 02:53 AM - FW: Re: Tailplane issue? (Steve Hagar)
4. 07:36 AM - Fueil filler during climb (DJA727@aol.com)
5. 07:46 AM - Re: FW: Re: Tailplane issue? (Ronald J. Parigoris)
6. 10:32 AM - Re: Propeller (John Cliff)
7. 12:22 PM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
8. 01:35 PM - fuel line connectors (RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils))
9. 03:58 PM - Re: Tailplane issue? (Ed)
10. 06:39 PM - Re: Tailplane issue? (Paul McAllister)
11. 07:42 PM - Re: Tailplane issue? (ScramIt@aol.com)
12. 08:32 PM - Re: Tailplane issue? (Kevin Klinefelter)
13. 09:10 PM - Re: fuel line connectors (craig ellison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 04/07/03 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Atkinson <paul@theatkinsons.demon.co.uk>
Richard
I got some fixings for toe straps that yaughties use, from a chandler.
These are fixed with 2 screws through some reinforcement behind the
baggage bay. They will take any luggage strap up to 1 1/2 in wide. Its
an idea... don't know yet if it's any good yet.
Paul
>
>
> Time: 11:04:16 AM PST US
> From: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
> Subject: Europa-List: Luggage tie downs
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
>
> I was wondering about fitting some sort of eyes in the baggage bay to
> tie
> luggage down to.
>
> Anyone got any good idea's?
>
> Richard Iddon G-RIXS
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Tailplane issue? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
Ron:
I had a problem with the tube going into the bushings also, I figured there
was not enough clearance. The problem however was that the toque tube was
not completely round but slightly ovaled, as were some other individuals.
Take a calipers and measure several diameters on the end of the tube to
see if you are getting any variance. There doesn't have to be much. Mark
the high spots and with a gentle hand and a large bench vice squeeze them
down to get a more round configuration. This was a long time ago for me
but I believe I was only out about .008 ~ .010 but it made a real
difference.
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: Ronald J. Parigoris <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/8/03 9:24:55 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane issue?
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> > Met up with Wayne tonight and took a look for first time at A-265 kit.
> > After a bit of unpacking and looking at manual, descided to see how the
> > torque tube fits into the accelerated tailplanes.
>
> The torque tube had a little oil on it so descided to give it a try after
> cleaning off a bit of resin, and cleaning out pip pin holes..
>
> Left one went on but gets kinda tight when TP12 goes into TP13 bushings.
> Wayne was warned it may be a bit tight.
>
> Tried the right side. Horror. No way is it going to fit. TP4 tube hits the
> edge of the burried TP6. Prior to trying a fitting, i cleaned a bit of
resin
> off of TP5. I looked at the edge of TP4 and it has a chamfer that goes at
> least 1/2 the wall thickness. I light filed the chamfer to make sure, but
> there is a definite alignment problem.
>
> I made sure TP9 was positioned facing down.
>
> This fitting was with the tailplane held by Wayne, and me holding the
Torque
> tube. mostly wiggle very little twisting.
>
> Is it necessary to perhaps gorilla the tailplane onto a secure torque tube
> to fit it?
>
> I think if it were bonded with pieces aligned, the chamfer oin the torque
> tube should be enough to get you into TP6.
>
> I looked through the hole for the Pip pin, and it appears to be lined up
> with TP6.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> I will call John at Europa tomorrow.
>
> If my worst fears come about, and the alignment of TP6 is off, what would
be
> the best way of repairing?
>
> I think a few years ago i read of this happening to someone else, and he
> modified things. Can't remember what was said.
>
> Is this a common problem?
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
> oh yea, our hangar was a little under 40 degrees F
>
>
>
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs@earthlink.net
Message 3
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| Subject: | Tailplane issue? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
Ron:
After verifying my build logbook I see that it wasn't my tube that was out
of round it was actually the bushings, and this seemed to be a pretty
prevalent problem at the time. If this is the case you may have a little
situation. However a torque tube must have been used to set the positining
of the sleeve in the first place. Check to see if your tube has excess
buildup of nickle plating. Or do some probing to see if there is a burr or
something in the inner sleeve. Perhaps a small amount of epoxy migrated on
to the inner surface of the bushing. Get a wooden dowel and turn it
slightly smaller than the sleeve id and bond some light sandpaper to it and
burnish the inside of the sleeve.
Steve
> [Original Message]
> From: Steve Hagar <hagargs@earthlink.net>
> To: europa-list-matronics <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/9/03 3:37:27 AM
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane issue?
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
>
>
> Ron:
>
> I had a problem with the tube going into the bushings also, I figured
there
> was not enough clearance. The problem however was that the toque tube was
> not completely round but slightly ovaled, as were some other individuals.
> Take a calipers and measure several diameters on the end of the tube to
> see if you are getting any variance. There doesn't have to be much. Mark
> the high spots and with a gentle hand and a large bench vice squeeze them
> down to get a more round configuration. This was a long time ago for me
> but I believe I was only out about .008 ~ .010 but it made a real
> difference.
>
> Steve Hagar
> A143
> Mesa, AZ
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Ronald J. Parigoris <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 4/8/03 9:24:55 PM
> > Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane issue?
> >
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
> <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> >
> > > Met up with Wayne tonight and took a look for first time at A-265 kit.
> > > After a bit of unpacking and looking at manual, descided to see how
the
> > > torque tube fits into the accelerated tailplanes.
> >
> > The torque tube had a little oil on it so descided to give it a try
after
> > cleaning off a bit of resin, and cleaning out pip pin holes..
> >
> > Left one went on but gets kinda tight when TP12 goes into TP13 bushings.
> > Wayne was warned it may be a bit tight.
> >
> > Tried the right side. Horror. No way is it going to fit. TP4 tube hits
the
> > edge of the burried TP6. Prior to trying a fitting, i cleaned a bit of
> resin
> > off of TP5. I looked at the edge of TP4 and it has a chamfer that goes
at
> > least 1/2 the wall thickness. I light filed the chamfer to make sure,
but
> > there is a definite alignment problem.
> >
> > I made sure TP9 was positioned facing down.
> >
> > This fitting was with the tailplane held by Wayne, and me holding the
> Torque
> > tube. mostly wiggle very little twisting.
> >
> > Is it necessary to perhaps gorilla the tailplane onto a secure torque
tube
> > to fit it?
> >
> > I think if it were bonded with pieces aligned, the chamfer oin the
torque
> > tube should be enough to get you into TP6.
> >
> > I looked through the hole for the Pip pin, and it appears to be lined up
> > with TP6.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > I will call John at Europa tomorrow.
> >
> > If my worst fears come about, and the alignment of TP6 is off, what
would
> be
> > the best way of repairing?
> >
> > I think a few years ago i read of this happening to someone else, and he
> > modified things. Can't remember what was said.
> >
> > Is this a common problem?
> >
> > Ron Parigoris
> >
> > oh yea, our hangar was a little under 40 degrees F
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --- Steve Hagar
> --- hagargs@earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs@earthlink.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fueil filler during climb |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
Hello group,
I had an interesting situation yesterday during climb out. The airplane had
about 15 gallons onboard according to the totalizer. I have the fuel tank
vent going from the tank top to the top of the filler neck, then another line
going from there to the bottom of the fuselage with a 3/8 inch aluminum tube
bent and facing forward, in the same idea as the manual calls for on the top
vents. During the climb, I noticed that fuel was filling up in the filler
neck. It kept rising to the point where I leveled off before it looked like
it would reach the vent line going to the bottom of the fuselage (dumping
fuel overboard at that point, I would think).
There was turbulence and I started to wonder if I have done something, since
I had not seen this before. When I leveled off, the problem went away.
I have concluded that since the tank has a flat top with one vent tube going
to the forward top of that flat surface (on the starboard side), if there is
an air gap with the tank down slightly, and if the airplane is not
coordinated, the air pocket could be trapped over on the port side of the
tank, with fuel on the starboard side. As the airplane climbs, the trapped
air would expand due to the outside air pressure being reduced, and that
would force fuel up the filler neck. I didn't think of slipping or skidding,
as the case may be, when I was climbing to see if I could stop this from
happening. Initially, I thought the fuel was being sucked up the filler neck
by a low pressure in the vent, but after sleeping on it, I think my
explanation is correct. The airplane now has 45 hours on it and I have never
seen it do this -- or noticed it anyway.
Any other with any information would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
A227
Mini U2
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane issue? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hey Guys
Thanks for the replies.
I will measure the round and size of the torque tube.
When going in, it hits TP6 and makes a pretty good klun.
This means the chamfer is not enough to allow the torque tube to be entering the
TP6 sleeve.
It slides through the first sleeve, tight but OK then goes klunk, not entering
the second sleeve at all.
I am thinking I may put something on the end of the torque tube, on the flat
side of the tube, not the chamfer, like masking tape and see what contact area
looks like.
Ron Parigoris
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff" <john@crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: PreDial@aol.com
>
> Quite some time ago there was a post concerning the Rospeller prop from
Germany. The post was very flattering. Having talked to several people at SNF,
it appears the 914 needs more prop than the Airmaster / Warp blades. The
Rospeller looks to fit the bill, but I really dont want to be the only one on
the block.
>
> Jim A185
I guess you are already aware of the article on the Rospeller at
http://www.crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk/\Mods/rospeller.htm ?
John Cliff
#0259
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS vs. Grand Rapids Technology Horizon |
04/09/2003 03:22:04 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Funny thing is, It is supposed to look the same. It's called
standardization, just like VSIs for example.
I for one prefer this to the chaos created by the GPS
industry.
Ira
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike@cox.net>
I have the Dynon unit and it looks like Grand Rapids copied the screen.
The two screens look Identical. Dynon has been developing the D10
for......
Message 8
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| Subject: | fuel line connectors |
--> Europa-List message posted by: RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils)
What's the recommended method for splitting the fuel line into two lines to accommodate
the fuel pumps then reuniting the lines again.
I've put together brass fittings to bifurcate the line before the pumps and rejoining
the lines back into a single one after the pumps. The problem is that
the brass fittings weigh more than the pumps!
Has anyone come up with a better way? Plastic? If plastic will the connectors
hold up to the gas and vibration?
Rob Neils
Trigear MG
spokane, Washington
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane issue? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Ed <bizzarro@easynet.co.uk>
We had that issue too. We also fixed it by giving a gentle squeeze in the
vice. I suspect that the deformity comes after any welding but I'm not sure.
Ours wasn't bad enough to prevent the tube being inserted into the bush, but
it did cause it to bind every half turn. After vice squeezing it was fine.
Cheers Ed
on 9/4/03 11:37 am, Steve Hagar at hagargs@earthlink.net wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
>
>
> Ron:
>
> I had a problem with the tube going into the bushings also, I figured there
> was not enough clearance. The problem however was that the toque tube was
> not completely round but slightly ovaled, as were some other individuals.
> Take a calipers and measure several diameters on the end of the tube to
> see if you are getting any variance. There doesn't have to be much. Mark
> the high spots and with a gentle hand and a large bench vice squeeze them
> down to get a more round configuration. This was a long time ago for me
> but I believe I was only out about .008 ~ .010 but it made a real
> difference.
>
> Steve Hagar
> A143
> Mesa, AZ
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Ronald J. Parigoris <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 4/8/03 9:24:55 PM
>> Subject: Europa-List: Tailplane issue?
>>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
> <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>>
>>> Met up with Wayne tonight and took a look for first time at A-265 kit.
>>> After a bit of unpacking and looking at manual, descided to see how the
>>> torque tube fits into the accelerated tailplanes.
>>
>> The torque tube had a little oil on it so descided to give it a try after
>> cleaning off a bit of resin, and cleaning out pip pin holes..
>>
>> Left one went on but gets kinda tight when TP12 goes into TP13 bushings.
>> Wayne was warned it may be a bit tight.
>>
>> Tried the right side. Horror. No way is it going to fit. TP4 tube hits the
>> edge of the burried TP6. Prior to trying a fitting, i cleaned a bit of
> resin
>> off of TP5. I looked at the edge of TP4 and it has a chamfer that goes at
>> least 1/2 the wall thickness. I light filed the chamfer to make sure, but
>> there is a definite alignment problem.
>>
>> I made sure TP9 was positioned facing down.
>>
>> This fitting was with the tailplane held by Wayne, and me holding the
> Torque
>> tube. mostly wiggle very little twisting.
>>
>> Is it necessary to perhaps gorilla the tailplane onto a secure torque tube
>> to fit it?
>>
>> I think if it were bonded with pieces aligned, the chamfer oin the torque
>> tube should be enough to get you into TP6.
>>
>> I looked through the hole for the Pip pin, and it appears to be lined up
>> with TP6.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> I will call John at Europa tomorrow.
>>
>> If my worst fears come about, and the alignment of TP6 is off, what would
> be
>> the best way of repairing?
>>
>> I think a few years ago i read of this happening to someone else, and he
>> modified things. Can't remember what was said.
>>
>> Is this a common problem?
>>
>> Ron Parigoris
>>
>> oh yea, our hangar was a little under 40 degrees F
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --- Steve Hagar
> --- hagargs@earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane issue? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
I am interested in anyone's experience with tight tail planes. The problem
I am having is the tail planes fit snuggly until the last 5mm and them need
to be pushed home hard. The only way I can get them off is to pry them off
with a screw driver which doesn't do the paint much good. I'd like some
idea on what I can to improve the situation.
Paul
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane issue? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
Hi Paul,
I have the same tight tail planes. In fact I have two plies of bid in the
"palm strike zone" on the tail plain tips. To get my tail plane off. I slide
a hold down strap between the tail plane and the tail, put a foot on the
underside over the tail bulk head and give a little pull. The tail plane pops
right off since the force right in line with the torque tube. I tried the
screw driver thing and it looked like it would do to much damage.
SteveD.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Tailplane issue? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
I had that problem. I found that the drive plate had gotten tweaked
slightly, putting a drive pin out of parallel with the socket in the TP
root. I gently bent it back using a large crescent wrench slid over the end
of the drive plate. Smooth as silk now.
You can try measuring with dial calipers the distance from the drive pin tip
to torque tube versus the root of the pin to torque tube.
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul McAllister
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane issue?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
I am interested in anyone's experience with tight tail planes. The problem
I am having is the tail planes fit snuggly until the last 5mm and them need
to be pushed home hard. The only way I can get them off is to pry them off
with a screw driver which doesn't do the paint much good. I'd like some
idea on what I can to improve the situation.
Paul
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: fuel line connectors |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
Hi Rob,
I went with 1/2" rubber hose from the gascolator. Then split with a 'Y'
fitting purchased from McMasters. Then downstream from the pumps used AN
fittings to join them back into a single to the engine. I basically copied
what Kevin Klinefelter had done. Can send picture if you'd like.
craig ellison
A205
silverton. OR----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Neils" <RobNeils@aimcomm.com>
Subject: Europa-List: fuel line connectors
> --> Europa-List message posted by: RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils)
>
> What's the recommended method for splitting the fuel line into two lines
to accommodate the fuel pumps then reuniting the lines again.
>
> I've put together brass fittings to bifurcate the line before the pumps
and rejoining the lines back into a single one after the pumps. The problem
is that the brass fittings weigh more than the pumps!
>
> Has anyone come up with a better way? Plastic? If plastic will the
connectors hold up to the gas and vibration?
>
>
> Rob Neils
>
> Trigear MG
> spokane, Washington
>
>
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