Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:20 AM - EFIS (PreDial@aol.com)
2. 05:45 AM - Elmers Probond Polyurathane glue (Ronald J. Parigoris)
3. 06:39 AM - Re: Elmers Probond Polyurathane glue (James Nelson)
4. 07:10 AM - Re: Elmers Probond Polyurathane glue (Ronald J. Parigoris)
5. 12:40 PM - Re: Elmers Probond Polyurathane glue (Jeremy Davey)
6. 02:10 PM - Nicopress Zinc W/ SS Wire (ScramIt@aol.com)
7. 02:56 PM - Re: Nicopress Zinc W/ SS Wire (Ronald J. Parigoris)
8. 03:47 PM - Re: Nicopress Zinc W/ SS Wire (ScramIt@aol.com)
9. 04:01 PM - Re: Tailplane issue? (Alan Gilbert)
10. 05:05 PM - Re: brake pipe routing (Tony Renshaw)
11. 05:33 PM - Re: brake pipe routing (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: PreDial@aol.com
We have recently completed modifying our monowheel instrument panel to fit
the BMA EFIS One and EFIS Lite. It really wasn't too difficult. I have
described the mod on BMA's discussion board under Installation, Europa XS. I
gave Greg photos at SNF and he promised to put them on the BMA web site soon.
There are some significant differences of BMA and GRT products. I believe
Malcolm will try to clarify these items here on the list. Just review the
work BMA did to get Lancair's approval.
Jim & Heather A185
Message 2
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| Subject: | Elmers Probond Polyurathane glue |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> Anyone use Elmers Probond polyurathane glue anywhere on an Europa?
Anyone know if after time it will outgas or something and hurt epoxy/glass?
I have alot of experiance with foam core model airplanes. When you are bonding
to
foam, if the glue is at least as strong as the foam, you are fine. Probond is
amazing stuff. It expands and fills gaps great! It adheres great to EPP foam,
wood, metal. It is sandable but not super easy to do so. You have to keep in mind
it expands, so use little and you must have parts held in place.
Looking at the Europa, I see that in hard to reach areas that foam does not fit
part great it could be far more useful than trying to get epoxy to fill gaps.
I have only been using it on foam for a few years now and has been holding up
great.
Ron Parigoris
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Elmers Probond Polyurathane glue |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Hi Ron
Why introduce something that may not work? The factory provided
adhesives and techniques do a superior job of putting the aircraft
together. It produces an airframe that withstands ultimate "G" loads
over 9. Don't change a good thing. Check other manufactures and see
how many "G's" theirs can take. Ours is a great design, efficient and
strong.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Elmers Probond Polyurathane glue |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello James Nelson
"Don't change a good thing"
I agree that good things should not be changed. It's the bad things I wish
to enhance.
For instance the bond of sleeve TP5 and TP6 to the ill fitting too large
hole of the core. It would be nice to have these sleeves supported a little
bit by the foam, especial the inner sleeve when rigging.
Probond for that application on an already assembled tailplane seems to be
just for the job as compared to attempting to drizzle epoxy to fill.
You just need to be close when applying probond and it will expand and fill
and be alot stronger than the foam itself.
I do not know if it has adverse effect over time. My gut says no, but unless
I got resonable assurance it is OK, would not use it on something I fly in.
Use on EPP and EPS foam when bonding irregular and ill fitting things with
gaps works so much better than epoxy when working on foam models.
ron parigoris
Message 5
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| Subject: | Elmers Probond Polyurathane glue |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey@btinternet.com>
Ron,
The inner sleeves are already very well supported, in both the quick-build
and the DIY versions (and I saw yours before Wayne loaded them up last
Saturday - the quality of the work on them was excellent - I believe they
were a FlightCrafters set rather than a Czech one, but the same observation
applies to the Czech ones I've seen). I think I'm right in saying, however,
that the key load path is from the sleeve to the embedded outboard rib not
from the sleeve to the foam. The way this interface is manufactured ensures
that this load path is good. You have nothing to worry about.
May I suggest two things?
Firstly, if you're concerned about the fit, call Neville at the factory
(+44-1751-433475) and speak to him. You won't get any BS. He's seen pretty
much everything in his time and I'd put money on him having the answer at
his fingertips.
Secondly, you seem interested in apply a technique from models to a real
plane. Are you sure you want to do that? Personally, I'd stick to the proven
techniques even if they're more work, and would check with the factory
before fixing something that may not be broken.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ronald J.
Parigoris
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello James Nelson
"Don't change a good thing"
I agree that good things should not be changed. It's the bad things I wish
to enhance.
For instance the bond of sleeve TP5 and TP6 to the ill fitting too large
hole of the core. It would be nice to have these sleeves supported a little
bit by the foam, especial the inner sleeve when rigging.
Probond for that application on an already assembled tailplane seems to be
just for the job as compared to attempting to drizzle epoxy to fill.
You just need to be close when applying probond and it will expand and fill
and be alot stronger than the foam itself.
I do not know if it has adverse effect over time. My gut says no, but unless
I got resonable assurance it is OK, would not use it on something I fly in.
Use on EPP and EPS foam when bonding irregular and ill fitting things with
gaps works so much better than epoxy when working on foam models.
ron parigoris
Message 6
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| Subject: | Nicopress Zinc W/ SS Wire |
--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
I was about to swage, the SS wire that came with the kit with 28-2-G Zinc
plated copper sleeves, and I found this on the Web.:
From: Nicopress@aol.com
Subject: NICOPRESS SLEEVES
I read a posting from the Internet that instructed people to use zinc plated
copper NICOPRESS sleeves on stainless steel aircraft cable. This is not
correct. When using stainless steel aircraft cable only TIN PLATED COPPER
or STAINLESS STEEL NICOPRESS SLEEVES should be used.
Zinc Plated Copper NICOPRESS sleeves are designed for use with galv. steel
aircraft cable.
The Tin Plated NICOPRESS Sleeves are made from a special Copper alloy that is
compatible with the Stainless Steel cable. It's the special copper alloy
that makes it acceptable for use on stainless steel aircraft, not the
plating.
If you want more information please contact us and give us your mailing
address.
Frank DeAngelo
Asst. Sales Manager
THE NATIONAL TELEPHONE SUPPLY CO.
What do you guys think?
SteveD.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Zinc W/ SS Wire |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello
SteveD.
Looking at McMasters catalogue, you may find same info on website
www.mcmaster.com under Compression Sleeves:
Zinc Plated Copper for use with steel and galvanized wire rope
Tin Plated copper for use with stainless steel, steel and galvanized wire rope
Type 304 Stainless for use with stainless wire rope
Copper for use with steel and galvanized
Aluminium Steel and Galvanized
Rare does McMaster make mistakes.
Ron Parigoris
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Zinc W/ SS Wire |
--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
That's my point. The Kit comes with Zinc plated copper for use with stainless
wire. This seems to be the wrong application.
SteveD.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Tailplane issue? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Gilbert" <alangilbert@classicfm.net>
I had similar issues with my tailplanes. TP5 and TP6 were a perfect fit on
the torque tube prior to hacksaw grooves being made for bonding. The
stresses induced by only very shallow grooves took one out of round and
caused it to jam up on the torque tube. Europa replaced the bush for me and
interestingly it was supplied very slightly oversize.
If yours is the accelarated kit, you have no control over how it was
produced. If the main stabilator layups were done without the torque
tube in place and therefore maintaining the TP5 and 6 bushes in alignment,
any minor stresses incurred when bonding the assembly to the workbench could
have resulted in a misalignment in the bushes - if this is the case, the
only cure I could imagine would be to remove the inboard bush and reset with
the torque tube in place and effect a repair to the glasswork - tiresome to
say the least.
One other point - a number of builders have commented that their TP12 drive
pins are a very tight fit - they should slide into the bushes without any
resistance at all. Any tightness here is almost certainly because the drive
pins were not accurately aligned with the torque tube prior to bonding in
the TP13 bushes. You can oil them to your heart's content - it won't make
any difference since you are trying to withdraw the pins in a direction
parallel to the torque tube to which they are not lined up! ! If this is
the case - heat up and remove the bushes - realign ACCURATELY your drive
pins with the torque tube and then rebond in the bushes so that they are a
smooth sliding fit with NO resistance - their axes should now be exactly
parallel to the torque tube. Accurate alignment here will not only produce a
nice sliding fit but will prevent wear and a gradual increase in slop
between the stabilators!
XS 497
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Mills" <Roger.Mills@btinternet.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tailplane issue?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Roger Mills"
<Roger.Mills@btinternet.com>
>
> Paul,
> I had a similar problem which I found to be due to slight mis-alignment
> of the TP12? drive pins with the TP13? sockets - it doesn't take much to
> produce the symptoms you describe. The fact that things tighten up in
> the last 5mm is the clue!
>
> Check the alignment of the pins by pushing some tightly fitting tube
> over them and sighting against the toque tube and socket positions on
> the tailplane. You may need to judiciously tweak the pin alignment and
> ensure the TP13 sockets are greased properly - but, whatever, you should
> not be using heavy handed forces in assembly or disassembly.
>
> Roger Mills
> G-BVUV
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
> McAllister
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailplane issue?
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
> --> <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am interested in anyone's experience with tight tail planes. The
> problem I am having is the tail planes fit snuggly until the last 5mm
> and them need to be pushed home hard. The only way I can get them off
> is to pry them off with a screw driver which doesn't do the paint much
> good. I'd like some idea on what I can to improve the situation.
>
> Paul
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: brake pipe routing |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@ozemail.com.au>
Richard,
If it is posssible I would dearly love to see your finger brake setup, and be
able to file it away should I go tri or taildragger? I am undecided but the
finger brakes seem like a good idea to me. I have a bent toward the
taildragger
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
At 10:28 PM 3/8/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
>
>My application for finger brakes is currently with the PFA.
>
>At least one other non-Europa demo has them approved.
>
>Richard
>Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
>Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
>Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
>SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk
>PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
>Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being flight tested
>
>> From: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
>> Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 18:30:00 -0000
>> To: "Europa Matronics Forum" <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Europa-List: brake pipe routing
>>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
>>
>> I have finally given up waiting for the finger brakes and am currently
>> installing the toe brakes on my tri gear, with a view to converting to the
>> finger brakes once they are sorted from the factory. Can anyone help with
>> the routing of the piping? It looks from the manual as if I should take it
>> down the starboard side and across the front of the seats. But is that along
>> the floor, just above the top of the tufnol bearing or just under the top of
>> the thigh support? Or somewhere else completely?
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Richard Iddon G-RIXS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: brake pipe routing |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Richard,
I'd like to see your plan for finger brakes as well if you'd like to share as
I am considering the same for my bird.
Tony,
If you want to see a really sweet conventional Europa contact Bob Berube of
Flight Crafters near Tampa. I saw it at S-n-F last week. It is very, very
nice...........
Regards to both,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
410 hours building since October '02 and going strong!
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