---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/08/03: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:27 AM - Re: Alleron Fitting (Neville Eyre) 2. 03:52 AM - Re: Refused Europa Factory messages (Neville Eyre) 3. 12:43 PM - Europa R/C Model (Bob Jacobsen) 4. 02:16 PM - Vacuum pump leaking (KARL HEINDL) 5. 03:27 PM - Re: Static when refueling? (James Nelson) 6. 03:27 PM - Re: Vacuum pump leaking (James Nelson) 7. 04:04 PM - Re: Vacuum pump leaking (KARL HEINDL) 8. 05:45 PM - Re: Refused Europa Factory messages (Alan Stills) 9. 05:58 PM - Re: 914 fuel pressure (Fred Fillinger) 10. 06:57 PM - Re: 914 fuel pressure (Tony S. Krzyzewski) 11. 07:55 PM - aileron closeout (Alan Stills) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:36 AM PST US From: "Neville Eyre" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Alleron Fitting --> Europa-List message posted by: "Neville Eyre" Hi Alan, Sorry for the delay in replying, we have had a major glitch here with our computer system, nothing was coming, although a test message I sent from home appeared to have made it ( I didn't get a non delivered note on my home computer). Anyway, we are up and running again! I can't remember how much detail on closing the wings I gave you , so here is my latest procedeure. Trim the aileron closeout flange to be 1/2'' wide (the part that bonds to the top skin). Trim the flap closeout flange to 1/2''. Cut the bond at the rear of the rib on the rib at half aileron span to let the closeout be free, also do the same on the outer flange of the outrigger rib. The vertical web at the inboard end of the aileron should be cut out to leave a 1/4'' rim. Cut the ''roof'' off of the aileron mass balance boxes, and bond them onto the lower skin, centred on the balance arms, as per manual. Cleco the top skin on, and scribe a line on the underside, useing the closeout flanges as a guide, and cut off the exess, so the upper panel matches the closeouts. Cover the leading edge of the flap and aileron with 3 or 4mm kitchen floor linolium or similar, and rig the flaps fully up, and the aileron in neutral. Glue the top skin on, with steel box section over the spar flange joint, and on top of the flap and aileron joints, with enough weight to gently squeeze the Redux out.Put a generous amount of Redux on the ribs, and make a fillet along the closeout joints to enlarge the glue line to about 3/4'', the Redux should be thickened with cotton flox to the ''just doesn't run'' state. When fully cured (leave for three days), remove the ailerons and flaps, and scuff sand the inside of the mass balance boxes, and the underside of the upper panel, and do a 3 ply Bid lay up from the box onto the skin. When you remove the lino' you will have a uniform gap.Sand the aileron closeout/skin edge at an angle, to match the required up deflection of the aileron. This works every time, I did the last one this week. Hope this will help, phone me on 1751 433475 if you need to talk this through, sorry again about the delay. Cheers, Nev. >>> "Alan Stills" 04/26/03 11:49pm >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" Nevelle. Appreciate the advice, however the closeout at the root was approximately 45MM while my aileron's are both 60 MM finished. The outboard end varied on both the wings. I've quiried the factory as 15MM difference is a little much for a factory fastbuild. Thanks Al Stills A095 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:36 AM PST US From: "Neville Eyre" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Refused Europa Factory messages --> Europa-List message posted by: "Neville Eyre" Hi ALL, We are alive and kicking! Had some sort of glitch in the system, seems O.K.now. Cheers, Nev. >>> "Fergus Kyle" 05/05/03 10:07pm >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Cheers, Today I tried to email Neville and it was refused, so I directed same to Andy, and got the same reaction: "This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason: Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why each recipient was rejected. Recipient: Reason: (BHST) Unknown host/domain name in "andy@europa-aircraft.com" Anybody else had this reply? Hope it's not a sober event........ Ferg A064 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:17 PM PST US From: "Bob Jacobsen" Subject: Europa-List: Europa R/C Model --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen" In case you havent seen it check out this website: www.rchomebuilts.com BOb Jacobsen A131 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:35 PM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: Europa-List: Vacuum pump leaking --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" I noticed a small amount of oil leaking from the Rapco vacuum pump (on 912S). It is coming out of the openings at the side, and also from the metal to metal seal between it and the gearbox. The pump was installed a long time ago and the engine hasn't flown yet. Have only done warmups and midrange rpm. I didn't think there would be any oil going to the external drive. Does it indicate something more sinister, like a broken seal in the gearbox ? The pump isn't vital at this stage, but what about the engine ? Please help, anyone, if you have an answer. Cheers, Karl Heindl, 392 tri in Canada http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static when refueling? From: James Nelson --> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson Ron, Try to refuel with metal cans rather than plastic. (Tough to find) I bonded my whole system to a common point that extends with a metal tab below the fuselage next to the fuel drains. This way I can hook up a grounding strap and the whole fuel system is ground potential. My fuel entrance fitting that the cap goes into is grounded to the outlets at the tank and to the ground in the electrical system. You can ground the fuel system in the bottom of the tank by using the aluminum fittings that provide sump drains. The redux will provide an electrical pathway so the copper lines that go deep into the tank can pull static out. Use a small screw clamp to hold a wire onto the fitting on each side. These should go to a common point for bonding. I also put in a braided cable from the entrance down through the plastic tubing into the tank all hooked together at one point. Ta Da. !! I think its the best you can do with our plastic airplane. Jim Nelson N15JN On Sun, 04 May 2003 06:01:50 -0400 "Ronald J. Parigoris" writes: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" > > > > Have a few questions about refueling. > > If using Mogas, do you take precautions to somehow ground the can? > > Can you use plastic gas can? > > If using 100LL at an airport, where/would you attach ground clamp? > > Thanks. > > Ron Parigoris > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vacuum pump leaking From: James Nelson --> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson Karl, Replace it with an all electrical system and you won't have those problems :-)) I went to all electrical in my 912S Mono Wheel. Vacuum systems do not have a good reputation for long livity. The old wet vacuum systems lasted but it seem as though thoes are hard to find as everyone had gone dry. Jim Nelson N15JN On Thu, 08 May 2003 22:15:46 +0100 "KARL HEINDL" writes: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > > I noticed a small amount of oil leaking from the Rapco vacuum pump > (on > 912S). It is coming out of > the openings at the side, and also from the metal to metal seal > between it > and the gearbox. The pump > was installed a long time ago and the engine hasn't flown yet. Have > only > done warmups and midrange > rpm. I didn't think there would be any oil going to the external > drive. Does > it indicate something more > sinister, like a broken seal in the gearbox ? > > The pump isn't vital at this stage, but what about the engine ? > > Please help, anyone, if you have an answer. > > Cheers, Karl Heindl, 392 tri in Canada > > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > > > Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:48 PM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vacuum pump leaking --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" do not archive Many thanks Jim, My concern right now is: is it the gearbox or the pump ? For the future I intend to rip out all the vacuum stuff because of the weight and replace with those electronic 'gyros' from the outfit in Australia , not Efis but individual instruments. Cheers, karl >From: James Nelson >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vacuum pump leaking >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 18:07:52 -0400 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson > >Karl, > Replace it with an all electrical system and you won't have those >problems :-)) I went to all electrical in my 912S Mono Wheel. Vacuum >systems do not have a good reputation for long livity. The old wet >vacuum systems lasted but it seem as though thoes are hard to find as >everyone had gone dry. > >Jim Nelson >N15JN > > >On Thu, 08 May 2003 22:15:46 +0100 "KARL HEINDL" >writes: > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > > > > > I noticed a small amount of oil leaking from the Rapco vacuum pump > > (on > > 912S). It is coming out of > > the openings at the side, and also from the metal to metal seal > > between it > > and the gearbox. The pump > > was installed a long time ago and the engine hasn't flown yet. Have > > only > > done warmups and midrange > > rpm. I didn't think there would be any oil going to the external > > drive. Does > > it indicate something more > > sinister, like a broken seal in the gearbox ? > > > > The pump isn't vital at this stage, but what about the engine ? > > > > Please help, anyone, if you have an answer. > > > > Cheers, Karl Heindl, 392 tri in Canada > > > > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > > > > > > > > Other Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:16 PM PST US From: "Alan Stills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Refused Europa Factory messages --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" Neville, Thanks for the answer, I recieved both your e-mails and you answered my questions...albieght a little late..again thank you Al Stills A095 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neville Eyre" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Refused Europa Factory messages > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Neville Eyre" > > Hi ALL, > We are alive and kicking! > Had some sort of glitch in the system, seems O.K.now. > Cheers, > Nev. > > >>> "Fergus Kyle" 05/05/03 10:07pm >>> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > > Cheers, > Today I tried to email Neville and it was refused, so I directed > same to Andy, and got the same reaction: > > "This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason: > Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.The > reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why each > recipient was rejected. > > Recipient: > Reason: (BHST) Unknown host/domain name in "andy@europa-aircraft.com" > > Anybody else had this reply? Hope it's not a sober event........ > Ferg > A064 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:21 PM PST US From: Fred Fillinger Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 fuel pressure --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger DJA727@aol.com wrote: > Here is a question that comes after thinking quite a bit. > > It maintains the fuel pressure at about 3.5 psi above the airbox > pressure. The normal range is from 2.0 to 5.0 psi delta above airbox > pressure. > ... > I have been trying to figure a way to measure that parameter and have > not found a cheap way, since a delta pressure sensor to do that job > is very expensive, I think. I've seen spec sheets where there's two versions on the same sheet. One is sealed; the other is called differential and has a second hose barb where the other one is sealed. One does need to look for a fuel/solvent resistant type, though. > It worked fine, except for the fact that the fuel pressure reading > jumped 2.2 psi with the second fuel pump turned on. This has always > bothered me that the fuel pressure is supposed to be regulated, > yet it significantly increases with the second fuel pump activated > along with the first. Wonder if that's back pressure in the return line. I would tee into the return line at a low point level with tank bottom, and with a full tank. Clear tubing then pointing skyward. Measure increases in level with 0, 1 and 2 pumps. One psi = 27.7" of water at sea level, or 36.9" of fuel. Don't forget to add say .6 psi for worst case pressure induced by the tank vent in cruise. > Should the fuel pressure be measured in the line from the regulator > to the carb? I believe that will same pressure, looking at internal design of the regulator. > If I institute the policy of taking off with one pump, that would > solve this puzzle, but I am not sure what is correct. Upon failure it's maybe 5 seconds 'til silence, and if early in climbout, I don't like the idea of dealing with even first an aural alarm by trying 2nd pump at a time where delay in setting up for forced landing can be bad. The FAA has an AC advising mfrs (other than airliners) how to deal with the requirement to meet specified failure probabilities in critical systems. Amazing how mere redundancy simplifies compliance! Good luck! Fred F. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:45 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: 914 fuel pressure From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" >> Upon failure it's maybe 5 seconds 'til silence, and if early in climbout, I don't like the idea of dealing with even first an aural alarm by trying 2nd pump at a time where delay in setting up for forced landing can be bad. It's actually more than that. I reckon it was about 15 seconds before it all went quiet in cruise. Then 5 seconds to realise what had happened, 10 seconds to restart - then two hours to rework the owner's panel so that the pilot couldn't inadvertently turn off both pumps in flight when he only meant to turn off the boost pump. Tony ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:14 PM PST US From: "Alan Stills" Subject: Europa-List: aileron closeout --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" Hi all, I finally got the answer to my questions on the aileron closeout from Nigel at the factory and am posting it for others to see. Al Stills A095 Hi Alan, Sorry for the delay in replying, we have had a major glitch here with our computer system, nothing was coming, although a test message I sent from home appeared to have made it ( I didn't get a non delivered note on my home computer). Anyway, we are up and running again! I can't remember how much detail on closing the wings I gave you , so here is my latest procedeure. Trim the aileron closeout flange to be 1/2'' wide (the part that bonds to the top skin). Trim the flap closeout flange to 1/2''. Cut the bond at the rear of the rib on the rib at half aileron span to let the closeout be free, also do the same on the outer flange of the outrigger rib. The vertical web at the inboard end of the aileron should be cut out to leave a 1/4'' rim. Cut the ''roof'' off of the aileron mass balance boxes, and bond them onto the lower skin, centred on the balance arms, as per manual. Cleco the top skin on, and scribe a line on the underside, useing the closeout flanges as a guide, and cut off the exess, so the upper panel matches the closeouts. Cover the leading edge of the flap and aileron with 3 or 4mm kitchen floor linolium or similar, and rig the flaps fully up, and the aileron in neutral. Glue the top skin on, with steel box section over the spar flange joint, and on top of the flap and aileron joints, with enough weight to gently squeeze the Redux out.Put a generous amount of Redux on the ribs, and make a fillet along the closeout joints to enlarge the glue line to about 3/4'', the Redux should be thickened with cotton flox to the ''just doesn't run'' state. When fully cured (leave for three days), remove the ailerons and flaps, and scuff sand the inside of the mass balance boxes, and the underside of the upper panel, and do a 3 ply Bid lay up from the box onto the skin. When you remove the lino' you will have a uniform gap.Sand the aileron closeout/skin edge at an angle, to match the required up deflection of the aileron. This works every time, I did the last one this week. Hope this will help, phone me on 1751 433475 if you need to talk this through, sorry again about the delay. Cheers, Nev.