Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:08 AM - Survival suits (david joyce)
2. 08:25 AM - Re: Static when Refuelling re Braid (Fred Fillinger)
3. 09:30 AM - Re: Static when Refuelling re Braid (Brian Rauchfuss - PCD)
4. 11:08 AM - Re: Static when Refuelling re Braid May 14, 2003 11:25:07 am" (Rob Housman)
5. 01:16 PM - Re: Static when Refuelling re Braid May 14, 2003 11:25:07 (Fred Fillinger)
6. 01:30 PM - Re: Survival suits (Nigel Charles)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" <davidjoyce@beeb.net>
I have just heard that a Europa friend,( for whose flying skills, knowledge and
judgement I have the greatest respect,) is contemplating investing in survival
suits for cross channel trips. While I would not want to seem critical of anyone's
attempts to do their best for their own and their loved one's safety, I
fear there is a down side to this and thus felt it worth raising for discussion.
My wife (and a number of other Europa ladies I know what of), is not
entirely convinced about the wisdom of flying in any small plane, with any
sort of pilot. I can imagine that , when/if I eventually persuade her that a trip
to the continent would be endurable, even delightful and of course safe, that
if we turn up at Lydd or wherever to find the next Europa crew donning survival
suits, it will be enough to see her on to the next train home!
This friend I may say spends most of his time flying round the world
with four engines, and probably with the rest of those who haven't been clever
enough, lucky enough or disciplined enough to persuade someone to pay us to
do likewise, I suspect that this superfluity of engines at his workplace has
warped his judgement!
I would be the last to pretend it is not PD cold in British waters
- I have absolutely refused to swim in them without a wetsuit since my early twenties.However
from 5000 ft my measured best glide angle of 1-12 with prop windmilling
(significantly better if prop stopped) gives a glide range of near 12
miles. In fact immediately pulling back to convert a cruise speed of 120kt to
a glide speed of 75kt yields an extra 385 ft which takes the glide range over
12 miles, but that's simply being pernickety!
On my two O/R trips via S'hampton - Cherbourg last year there were
never less than 20 boats in sight, and landing alongside one capable of stopping
in less than 5 miles would not have been a challenge. In last week's Europa
Club trip to Ireland we did Blackpool-Belfast direct and S.E Ireland to St Davids
direct. There were not so many boats in the Irish Sea but nevertheless
landing close to a boat, an oilrig or on land was always easily possible. On top
of that we all had liferafts, and if I was unlucky enough to have engine failure
in the middle of nautical nowhere, combined with communication failure
or search failure, I would prefer my chances of long term survival in a dinghy
rather than bobbing around in a survival suit. Have I missed something?
Musing on this has made me wonder whether the Europa Club should not
act as a directory of those who like me have a dinghy and would be perfectly
happy to lend it to another Europa pilot. May your engines never stop! David
Joyce
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Static when Refuelling re Braid |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger <fillinger@ameritech.net>
> Below is a message either of mine, or one that sounds very
> similar. So, I am unsure where you are going with this, in
> terms of other options that you are not mentioning in this
> e-mail. So, how do you propose I do it to mitigate this
> static issue. Don't misinterpret my "straight to the point"
> but I have been under a thunderstorm autocoupled to 200' and
> I am a bit lacking in my usual tact. Any help is kindly
> appreciated, but I did buy the tinned copper braid today, and
> after reading your message I don't know what to do with it.
>
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
That would be braid dangling inside the tank, wired to electrical
ground? It won't do anything during refueling to suppress static
charges, since fuel is essentially nonconductive.
FAA is clear about the lightning hazard problem with composite A/C. The
amount of energy to ignite fuel is so low that a hazard exists with
relatively minor discharges, such as corona discharges and streamers,
they say. Lightning has the choice, if not both, of flowing in the
control system or along wiring, so terminating latter inside the tank is
not good at all. An encounter which may only take out something
electrical or stiffen up a rod-end bearing can be catastrophic.
Realistically, though, it's more of a problem for IFR flight.
I had an real encounter (alum airplane), in cloud on the last vector to
intercept the localizer for a 300-3/4 ILS approach; bright flash and
funny atmosphere inside the cabin. It did no airframe damage per later
inspection, but took out only xmit in the comms. ATC knows what to then
do, and it was interesting how the IFR rule book says you do certain
things in lost comm, but in that circumstance and in radar contact, they
really want you to do the obvious as the LOC needle begins to center.
Even if it would have been nice to first go somewhere to relax a while
after the strike, as if IMC, lost comm, no autopilot, and convective
weather made that even thinkable!
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Static when Refuelling re Braid |
May 14, 2003 11:25:07 am"
--> Europa-List message posted by: Brian Rauchfuss - PCD <brauchfu@pcocd2.intel.com>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger <fillinger@ameritech.net>
> That would be braid dangling inside the tank, wired to electrical
> ground? It won't do anything during refueling to suppress static
> charges, since fuel is essentially nonconductive.
It is because fuel has a low conductivity that the braid is required! A
great deal of the static created in a nonconductive tank is due to the
turbulence of the non-conductive fluid as it flows down the refill pipe.
There is a very interesting experiment where distilled water is flowed
between two tanks that are insulated from each other. A spark gap between
the tanks will start sparking as the charge builds.
The braid bleeds off the charge as the fuel flows around it - the close
contact between the two is required due to the low conductivity of fuel.
The main goal is to prevent any sparks from occuring near the filling point,
where the mixture can be low enough to support combustion - the center of the
tank has too rich a mixture.
> FAA is clear about the lightning hazard problem with composite A/C. The
Perhaps making the braid removable would solve the lightning problem?
Lightning is such bad news (as well as icing and severe turbulence which tend
to go along with it) that I plan to stay far away from thunderstorms and
associated weather.
Brian
Message 4
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| Subject: | Static when Refuelling re Braid May 14, 2003 11:25:07 |
am"
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Let's not make this any more complicated than necessary folks. What MUST be
done is to ground the aluminum filler neck to prevent sparking from the fuel
filler nozzle, and to install a conductor (the braid meets this requirement)
from the filler neck to the bottom of the tank. Nothing else matters.
See "How Do I Work Safely with Flammable and Combustible Liquids? (Static
Electricity)" at
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/prevention/flammable_static.html for an
excellent discussion of this, and near the bottom of the page there is
specific advice about filling non-conductive containers (like the Europa's
fuel tank).
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian
Rauchfuss - PCD
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static when Refuelling re Braid May 14, 2003
11:25:07 am"
--> Europa-List message posted by: Brian Rauchfuss - PCD
<brauchfu@pcocd2.intel.com>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger
<fillinger@ameritech.net>
> That would be braid dangling inside the tank, wired to electrical
> ground? It won't do anything during refueling to suppress static
> charges, since fuel is essentially nonconductive.
It is because fuel has a low conductivity that the braid is required! A
great deal of the static created in a nonconductive tank is due to the
turbulence of the non-conductive fluid as it flows down the refill pipe.
There is a very interesting experiment where distilled water is flowed
between two tanks that are insulated from each other. A spark gap between
the tanks will start sparking as the charge builds.
The braid bleeds off the charge as the fuel flows around it - the close
contact between the two is required due to the low conductivity of fuel.
The main goal is to prevent any sparks from occuring near the filling point,
where the mixture can be low enough to support combustion - the center of
the
tank has too rich a mixture.
> FAA is clear about the lightning hazard problem with composite A/C. The
Perhaps making the braid removable would solve the lightning problem?
Lightning is such bad news (as well as icing and severe turbulence which
tend
to go along with it) that I plan to stay far away from thunderstorms and
associated weather.
Brian
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Static when Refuelling re Braid May 14, 2003 11:25:07 |
am"
--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger <fillinger@ameritech.net>
>>That would be braid dangling inside the tank, wired to electrical
>>ground? It won't do anything during refueling to suppress static
>>charges, since fuel is essentially nonconductive.
>
> It is because fuel has a low conductivity that the braid is required!
> A great deal of the static created in a nonconductive tank is due to
> the turbulence of the non-conductive fluid as it flows down the
> refill pipe.
> The braid bleeds off the charge as the fuel flows around it - the
> close contact between the two is required due to the low conductivity
> of fuel. The main goal is to prevent any sparks from occuring near
> the filling point, where the mixture can be low enough to support
> combustion - the center of the tank has too rich a mixture.
Could be, but the clearest technical discussion (by the SAAA) of the
above wire in a nonconductive pipe that I can find says the transfer of
charge is too slow to accomplish much. FAA by implication concurs.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Survival suits |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
Although David has not spoken to me about this it sounds like I am the
person to which he is referring. He will be pleased to know that these days
I make do with 2 engines in my work. However I am still
very much of the opinion (as is SEMS the survival equipment company) that
survival suits are well worth the investment.
This was reinforced recently
when I talked to another professional pilot who had actually ditched in the
English channel only 2 miles from the Isle of Wight. This event happened in
October, one of the warmest months of the year for water temperature in the
channel. He had a lifejacket and a dinghy. The aircraft sank in two minutes
and the regularly serviced liferaft failed to inflate. Luckily for him the
D&D cell got a secondary radar fix on him although he was below 2000ft due
to a restricted cloudbase (fairly common over the English Channel). The
helicopter by chance was already airborne and found him in only 35 minutes
using their thermal imaging camera. In that short time he was suffering
badly from hypothermia and had to remain in hospital for two days to
recover. He was told that he was very lucky as another 15 to 20 minutes
would have been enough to kill him. As the CAA ditching leaflet says,
ditching is a rare occurrence but although 85% survive the ditching itself
only 50% of those survive the subsequent hypothermia.
I don't intend to compromise my safety (and that of my passenger) just to
encourage a nervous flyer. In any event I assume
that David will be briefing his passenger on ditching before embarking on
cross channel flights. As shown by many
accidents careful prebriefing is important to improve one's chances in the
unlikely event.
A nervous passenger may be put off just by being asked to wear a lifejacket
so is this going to be dispensed with as well?
This was never intended to be a discussion topic As far as I am concerned I
just want to take simple precautions and don't have any criticisms if others
wish to do differently. Each to their own.
Nigel Charles
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