Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:54 AM - Re: Europa-List Tunnel Cable Guides (Nick Hammond)
2. 01:37 AM - Re: Fuel In, Braid in / Inflight, Braid Out (Norbert.P.Hoffmann@t-online.de (Norbert P. Hoffmann))
3. 01:54 AM - club seminar full (DaveBuzz@aol.com)
4. 01:54 AM - Re: Survival suits (Runnymede73@aol.com)
5. 02:24 AM - Fuel In, Braid in / Inflight, Braid Out (Graham Singleton)
6. 02:34 AM - Diesel volatility (Graham Singleton)
7. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Tunnel Cable Guides (KARL HEINDL)
8. 09:46 AM - Winter ASI (Nigel Charles)
9. 01:40 PM - Re: Survival (Kevin Taylor)
10. 02:09 PM - Re: Survival ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Europa-List Tunnel Cable Guides |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond@saabsystems.com.au>
Steve,
While it's obviously OK in the workshop, I would be a bit nervous about the effect
of turbulent airflow in flight. Unless both feet are on the pedals, the cable
tension is only as strong as the springs and it seems possible to me (on the
basis of zero Europa flying experience!) that you could end up with the cable
hooked over the brake as you were lowering or raising the gear. Not a good
thing to happen. I know both feet would normally be on the pedals in such a situation
but no sense in creating a hazard if you don't have to -- you don't get
a lot of thinking time.
If you think this is valid, one possibility might be to keep them as you have them
but to add some sort of bracket either side of the tunnel abreast the wheel,
with a loosely fitting guide to steady the cable. I ended up running the cable
in nyloflow tubing between the pulleys and the pedal cross-bar for this reason
(and because I share your dislike of the standard solution).
Best regards,
Nick
Original Message:
-----------------
Time: 06:35:36 PM PST US
From: ScramIt@aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: Tunnel Cable Guides
--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
I have the rudder cables connected to the rudder pedals as per plans. The
cables run straight from the CS21s to the cable pulleys. They skim the walls
and clear everything. I put the gear with wheel and brake on, and retracted,
still the cables clear. If I build the cable guides per plans the cables will
rub on the blocks and rub on the walls in several places. (it's the walls
that are the problem) I think I'm going to keep the cable straight and not
have the cables pulled outwards. The guides will be only 5 mm taller, I can't
think of anything that will rub on or hit them later on. I'm I missing
something?
Thanks,
SteveD.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel In, Braid in / Inflight, Braid Out |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Norbert.P.Hoffmann@t-online.de (Norbert P. Hoffmann)
Am Freitag, 16. Mai 2003 03:02 schrieben Sie:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
>
> Tony,
> Put the braid in the system with a weight on the end to keep it
> in place. ........... snip
Would an electrical connection between the aluminum filler ring and both
fuel-outlets (and from there to the engine block) not be enough?
This is what I did on D-EUPA.
Norbert
Message 3
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| Subject: | club seminar full |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com
Just a final reminder,
the seminar is fully booked, all those going have been sent a joining email/letter.
Just in case anyone was thinking of 'dropping in' for a day -please dont; there
is no more room!
thanks,
dave
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Survival suits |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Runnymede73@aol.com
chances are that the europa will float after ditching
probably nose down and pivoting on the wings
my grob type (grp/carbon motor glider) did just that
off the scillies. towed to the islands 10+ miles
washed out refurbed and now flying again with a new
engine and instruments
bill dewey G-UILD
Message 5
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| Subject: | Fuel In, Braid in / Inflight, Braid Out |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 15/05/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Fred and co,
>
>Between you and Brian I think the best option might be to dangle the lead down
>during refuelling, and pull it out again for flight. Would you agree that is
>the best optioin
Tony
I would go for the aluminium elbow at the bottom of the XS filler moulding,
get some coarse mesh attached at the lower end, then ground the elbow with
every other metal bit, including of course the filler cap.
I don't feel happy about copper braid rattling around in the pipes. A few
years down the airways bits may start dropping into the fuel. I know your
gascolator will catch them but not everyone has an Andair.
BTW are you still current on small aircraft? Or have you sold the Victa?
You need to find an excuse to go flying with Kathy McLure!
Graham
---
Message 6
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| Subject: | Diesel volatility |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 15/05/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>As I recall you are going diesel with a significantly lower flash point,
>volatility, so maybe your fuel type dictates you don't need to worry, but what
>if you were using a 914 and MOGAS???
Trouble with Diesel, or more particularly Avtur, is that the fuel air
mixture in the tank may well be explosive whereas with Mogas and Avgas the
mixture is too rich to ignite.
It is thought by some that we should ventilate the tank to get the mixture
down below flammability. (Certainly in 747s and the like where they do have
possible ignition sources inside the tank.)
Using -6 Versatube for the in and out sections, blowing air in to the
normal breather connection and out from one of the other tank connector NPT
holes will provide some ventilation but whether it's enough I don't know.
Wilksch recommends it anyway. IMHO the risk is relatively low with no
electrical connections inside the tank. One should perhaps use either a
pressure transducer or Jerry Davis' floating magnet/reed switch device for
contents indication. Or indeed a sight gauge {:-)
Graham
---
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Europa-List Tunnel Cable Guides |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Steve,
As Nick and many others I have the clear nylon tubes (from ACS or some
hardware stores) from
in front of the firewall to the pulleys, p-clipped to the tunnel sides. That
way there is no interferenc
anywhere. I have the tirgear and am using the tunnel with floor window also
for baggage.
Regards, Karl
>From: "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond@saabsystems.com.au>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Tunnel Cable Guides
>Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:21:54 +0930
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nick Hammond"
><Nick.Hammond@saabsystems.com.au>
>
>Steve,
>
>While it's obviously OK in the workshop, I would be a bit nervous about the
>effect of turbulent airflow in flight. Unless both feet are on the pedals,
>the cable tension is only as strong as the springs and it seems possible to
>me (on the basis of zero Europa flying experience!) that you could end up
>with the cable hooked over the brake as you were lowering or raising the
>gear. Not a good thing to happen. I know both feet would normally be on
>the pedals in such a situation but no sense in creating a hazard if you
>don't have to -- you don't get a lot of thinking time.
>
>If you think this is valid, one possibility might be to keep them as you
>have them but to add some sort of bracket either side of the tunnel abreast
>the wheel, with a loosely fitting guide to steady the cable. I ended up
>running the cable in nyloflow tubing between the pulleys and the pedal
>cross-bar for this reason (and because I share your dislike of the standard
>solution).
>
>Best regards,
>
>Nick
>
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>Time: 06:35:36 PM PST US
>From: ScramIt@aol.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Tunnel Cable Guides
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>
>I have the rudder cables connected to the rudder pedals as per plans. The
>cables run straight from the CS21s to the cable pulleys. They skim the
>walls
>and clear everything. I put the gear with wheel and brake on, and
>retracted,
>still the cables clear. If I build the cable guides per plans the cables
>will
>rub on the blocks and rub on the walls in several places. (it's the walls
>that are the problem) I think I'm going to keep the cable straight and not
>have the cables pulled outwards. The guides will be only 5 mm taller, I
>can't
>think of anything that will rub on or hit them later on. I'm I missing
>something?
>Thanks,
>SteveD.
>
>
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
I have a spare 1.5 turn Winter ASI (20-160kts) available. I bought it believing
that my Vne would be 150kts. Having done the weight increase mod I found I needed
an ASI to cater for the increased Vne of 165kts. Europas with a MTOW of 1300lb
have a Vne of 150kts. This ASI fits a standard 3.125" hole. Never used.
New Winter ASI's cost about =A3180. I am looking to sell at =A390 or $140 or 130Euro.
Nigel Charles
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin@eastyorkshire.co.uk>
For what its worth here is my input.
I have a survival suit and wore it last year when crossing the Irish
Caernarfon to Dublin 70 nautical miles. I was advised that around may
survival time without a Immersions suit was less than 10 mins. With a suit
it should be nearer an hour. Given that the odds of been rescued in 10 mins
were very low, but the odds of rescue in one hour were better I bought the
suit.
I didn't have the Europa at the time it was a Rallye. The ground temp in
Caernarfon was about 26 deg.
To be honest wearing the suit was a big danger!
The sun on the Perspex canopy turned the Rallye in to a green house. The
temp in the cabin was far too warm and although my passenger was comfortable
(without a suite) I was probably close to passing out at times. This was not
helped by the tight neck and wrist seals which you get with theses suits.
When I landed I was very relieved. I undid the zip and run my hands across
my t-shirt. I knocked of about 5 litres of sweat.
I didn't wear the suit on the way back.
I have crossed the Irish sea twice and channel once since and NO I HAVENT
worn the suit again.
I have thought a lot about it and as daft as it seams one reason for not
wearing it is I feel guilty I don't have one for my passenger.
Silly thing is when ever I set out over water I think is this the time I
should have worn it.
However my major concern is landing on the sea without the under cart
(trigear) flipping me over. This was a discussion point on the micro group
and when I flew a flex over water my action plan was to jump before the flex
hit the water.
I now have a CT and because its easier to exit than the Europa I have
planned to do that. Maybe wrongly?
My plan is full flap, in to wind, get it near the stall open door and jump.
It stalls about 34kts so a little slower than a Europa in fairness.
I am surprised to read about the expectation of the Europa to float. My
assumption with any plane was once it touched the water it would go do and
pretty dam quick.
As for debating the issue I think its a dam fine Idea. Any ideas and
documented cases would help to make an informed decision.
As for me if I try the Immersion suit again it will be either on a flexwing
or on a cool day next time.
Regards
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nigel
Charles
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Survival
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles"
<nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
>It would not be surprising of course if a Survival Equipment firm thought
it a good idea for folk to buy survival kit.<
Yes, however they could have easily used the situation to advise the
purchase of a dinghy instead, making them even more money. Their advice was
that if you are only going to buy a dinghy or survival suits then the best
option is survival suits. You know they are going to work. They also point
out that in some ditching cases it was not possible to get the dinghy out of
the aircraft in time.
> I assume that your friend was flying something a bit less
seaworthy than a Europa, and find it difficult to imagine that a Europa
would sink in 2 mins unless you hit the water so hard that you knocked the
wings off, in which case you would probably be beyond worrying about
sinking.<
Quite right but having done sea survival training I can assure you that in
anything other than flat calm coping with the survival tasks is not as
straightforward as it seems. It is quite possible for a wing to dig into a
wave on touchdown and be ripped off. The fuselage could then easily fill
with water whilst tipped on its side. Escaping from a semi submerged
fuselage in a typical English Channel swell could be awkward enough let
alone removing the dinghy and inflating it. Although my Classic Europa has
foam wings the XS does not and there is no guarantee that it will remain
afloat once the wings have filled with water assuming they were still
attached.
>The figures for only 50% surviving the ditching are widely quoted, but do
you have the detail? How many of these were in mid Ocean, or polar waters
rather than the Channel? How many were in light aircraft equipped with a
dinghy? It would be nice to know what the figures are for the sort of
situation we are equipping ourselves for, rather than world figures that no
doubt include people flying in the vilest conditions (which may have
triggered the ditching) in totally inhospitable places. <
I have no further info on this but it is interesting that a fit adult
immersed in the English Channel for 35 minutes at the best time of year was
not far from expiring. This is bad enough without considering worse
scenarios.
Finally I did not raise this issue on the forum. If David wishes to just
use a liferaft then that is fine by me. I am happy with my decision. I am
sure others will make their own judgements on this topic.
Nigel Charles
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Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: <europa@nimbus.geog.ox.ac.uk>
> I am surprised to read about the expectation of the Europa to float. My
> assumption with any plane was once it touched the water it would go do and
> pretty dam quick.
My thoughts on this (for what it's worth), I agree that the Europa will
(probably) float, but that's only with the wings on. What are the chances
of an ideal landing on 4ft waves *and* keeping both wings on? I wouldn't
put money on it, especially when we're talking about the English coast or
near by.
Cheers,
Mark.
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