Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:31 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03 (Nick Hammond)
2. 06:15 AM - Re: Icom IC A200 /belly antenna (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
3. 06:19 AM - Icom IC A200 (Graham Singleton)
4. 07:04 AM - Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them (Fred Fillinger)
5. 07:49 AM - Re: Rotax 912ULS EGT (Nigel Charles)
6. 08:52 AM - Re: Icom IC A200 (Brian Davies)
7. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03 (R.C.Harrison)
8. 02:21 PM - ICOMA200 radio assessments (Fergus Kyle)
9. 05:15 PM - Re: ICOMA200 radio assessments (James Nelson)
10. 09:13 PM - Re: ICOMA200 radio assessments (Fred Fillinger)
11. 11:14 PM - Re: ICOMA200 radio assessments (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nick Hammond" <Nick.Hammond@saabsystems.com.au>
Brian,
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
>
> Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I know
> I can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
>
> Brian Davies kit 454
I have one of these but as yet no in-flight performance experience. The issue of
"approval" or otherwise will vary from country to country but despite a fair
amount of research I found nothing at all to confirm the rumours. I suspect this
is a typical piece of the "noise" (replicated by well meaning people who like
bad news and believe everything they hear) that makes the Internet an unreliable
source of information unless you apply a reasonable degree of skepticism
to the information content.
The real bad news is that the technical support for the IC-A200 leaves a lot to
be desired. The radio is a good looking unit and includes very nice features
like a built in intercom and multiple audio inputs but the documentation supplied
with the unit is essentially an external wiring diagram -- no application
notes and no information on singal levels or even the meaning of the abbreviations.
I have checked all the Icom websites (Europe, USA, Australia and Asia) and
they have nothing useful.
The local so-called "technical support" people have this documentation and detailed
repair manuals but no design guidance of any form and their view was that
nothing else would be available from other centres. In other words, if you want
anything but the most basic istallation, you are on your own. My radio came
with a partially complete kit but I try to steer of companies with this sort
of attitude. There are plenty of other good and relatively inexpensive VHF Aircraft
radios available.
If you do decide to go ahead with the Icom unit and want to use some of the features,
let me know off list and I will share what I have been able to nut out.
Best regards,
Nick
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Icom IC A200 /belly antenna |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 5/21/2003 6:29:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk writes:
> before you commit your
> self to the Microair look at this radio from Australia
Not to throw off on Microair, I have one installed in my sailplane and it's
worked flawlessly for over a year now. However, there is another guy at our
field who has one installed in his Blanik L-33 who has had nothing but
trouble with it. The display goes blank, then flashes between modes. It
receives ok, but when he transmits it sounds like it's off frequency by about
500Hz. Some days it doesn't work at all. The problem seems to be temperature
related. His is about 4 years old and is about to go back to the factory.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 21/05/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
>Subject: Europa-List: Icom IC A200
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
>
>Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I know I
>can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
>
>Brian Davies kit 454
Brian
there was a question re approval in the early days, but only because some
people wanted to use the ICOM A200 as a base station and CAA didn't like
that. It is approved for airborne use. I have no idea what it's performance
is like.
Graham
---
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger <fillinger@ameritech.net>
> Which suggests that the metal part of the breather tube should be
> bonded to the metal surround of the filler cap and the refuelling
> nozzle kept in contact with the latter whilst refuelling?
>
> Duncan McF.
There's no possibility a static inside the vent tubing. Fuel vapor flow
does not cause static. Any fuel flowing in the vent line requires
bubbling or sufficient velocity for turbulent flow to cause any static
at all. In any case, the tiny I.D. of the tube should should be
insufficient surface area to store enough spark energy for ignition.
Bonding the outside metal tube to the filler cap will do no harm but
accomplish nothing that I can see.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912ULS EGT |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
>in fact I would prefer 4 EGTs not two. The way the highest cylinder moves
around with changing throttle setting is amazing, Must be something to do
with the strange manifold shape. I suspect the Skydrive carb heater might
help to even out the mixture and help more balanced EGTs. Anyone know?<
I have not noticed this phenomenon but I also prefer 4 EGT's for a different
reason. If the engine should run rough or fail a magneto drop check,
monitoring the individual EGT's may show up which is the problem cylinder.
To achieve this I use a switch selector between the senders and the RMI
uMonitor. Up to now when I have checked the individual temperatures there
hasn't been a lot of difference but I will look more closely at the highest
cylinder on my next flight.
Nigel Charles
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Icom IC A200 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
Many thanks for all the good advice regarding the Icom ICA200. The lack of
support for the unit has persuaded me to dig deeper into my pocket and
switch to the Becker radio and transponder. All of the data on wiring,
accessories, setting up, operating and maintaining is readily available on
the internet. The radio includes an OAT gauge which will save me a small
amount!
Now on my 6th panel redesign (using the experimental panel designer web
site, which is not quite accurate enough for final fitting)- fun isn't it?-
until you have to pay for the goodies.
Brian Davies kit 454
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Icom IC A200
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton
<graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
>
> At 23:56 21/05/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
> >Subject: Europa-List: Icom IC A200
> >
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
> >
> >Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I
know I
> >can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
> >
> >Brian Davies kit 454
>
> Brian
> there was a question re approval in the early days, but only because some
> people wanted to use the ICOM A200 as a base station and CAA didn't like
> that. It is approved for airborne use. I have no idea what it's
performance
> is like.
> Graham
>
>
> ---
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Guys.
Just a "rider" to my previous info' on the ICOM unit. in the light of Graham
Singleton's message about the CAA approval and Nick Hammonds notes below. I
know not NOW from where my information came but I don't seek to pass
information on the basis of "hearsay" and was advised by someone in
authority perhaps PFA or their Inspector that the ICOM IC A200 wasn't now
authorised for new Installations.
Having offered that information in good faith I don't intend spending my
'phone expense to verify or otherwise the facts. May I therefore suggest
that the folks who receive this information take the trouble to speak to the
Radiocommunications Agency Branch of the CAA before they spend their cash
possibly unwantonly. It's by the way that my experiences are that it's a
piece of "sh..." and that so called ICOM agents at Wolverhampton couldn't
adjust it to suit my installation nor would they fly in the a/c to try to
adjust it more suitably in working conditions and could only bench set it to
the written instructions with a shrug of the shoulders as to the likely
cause of the problem.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nick Hammond
Subject: Europa-List: RE: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 05/21/03
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nick Hammond"
<Nick.Hammond@saabsystems.com.au>
Brian,
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
>
> Does any one know of a UK supplier for the Icom IC A200 transceiver? I
know
> I can get it from the US but it would be nice to have UK supplier support.
>
> Brian Davies kit 454
I have one of these but as yet no in-flight performance experience. The
issue of "approval" or otherwise will vary from country to country but
despite a fair amount of research I found nothing at all to confirm the
rumours. I suspect this is a typical piece of the "noise" (replicated by
well meaning people who like bad news and believe everything they hear) that
makes the Internet an unreliable source of information unless you apply a
reasonable degree of skepticism to the information content.
The real bad news is that the technical support for the IC-A200 leaves a lot
to be desired. The radio is a good looking unit and includes very nice
features like a built in intercom and multiple audio inputs but the
documentation supplied with the unit is essentially an external wiring
diagram -- no application notes and no information on singal levels or even
the meaning of the abbreviations. I have checked all the Icom websites
(Europe, USA, Australia and Asia) and they have nothing useful.
The local so-called "technical support" people have this documentation and
detailed repair manuals but no design guidance of any form and their view
was that nothing else would be available from other centres. In other words,
if you want anything but the most basic istallation, you are on your own. My
radio came with a partially complete kit but I try to steer of companies
with this sort of attitude. There are plenty of other good and relatively
inexpensive VHF Aircraft radios available.
If you do decide to go ahead with the Icom unit and want to use some of the
features, let me know off list and I will share what I have been able to nut
out.
Best regards,
Nick
Message 8
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| Subject: | ICOMA200 radio assessments |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
"It's by the way that my experiences are that it's apiece of "sh..." and that so
called ICOM agents at Wolverhampton couldn't adjust it to suit my installation
nor would they fly in the a/c to try to adjust it more suitably in working
conditions and could only bench set it to
the written instructions with a shrug of the shoulders as to the likely cause of
the problem."
Now Robert,
You say that you don't believe in reacting to hearsay, but then give
us your experiences...........? What are we to consider your experiences? Aren't
they hearsay for us?
The handheld is an aviation form of a very popular amateur radio/marine/.emergency
portable which is tested and run by numerous agencies around the world, so by what
criteria does CAA on the island measure its failure?
Has it been proven not to be the antenna, transmission cable, local
interference, or power swamping, or does CAA just not like some of the correspondence?
That is, who and what are being tested?
Each radio distributor in every parish has an opinion about his/her
agent - and those awarded an agency are not always the best qualified, but simply
the contract attainees. The radio untis don't know which parish they fall
into. Radio (just like flying) incurs the greatest difficulty from political
borders, not science. Admittedly, the three major Nippon makers, Yaesu, ICOM and
Kenwood (AKA Trio) all produce the majority of handheld units around the world
- by that I mean for two million users in ham radio alone - and very few are
awarded the "piece of S....." medal on the basis of unemotional testing.
Perhaps we should hear from a majority first?
Cheers, ferg
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: ICOMA200 radio assessments |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Right "O" Ferg
Don't know what all the fuss is about. I installed my Icom A200
new out of the box that I bought at Sun-N-Fun about three years ago + - .
The unit has performed flawlessly. I did install the Europa dipole in
the tail and used a professional SWR meter to tune it. Took a bit of
trimming and re-trimming to get it right. But I got the desired
minimum. I plotted it out and put it in my records. So far I have not
found any nulls in the direction that I travel. All directions seem
fine. I know that proper instillation is always necessary when putting a
transmitter on line. A "CB" radio it isn't. I also installed a fan
behind the panel to blow air around the rear of the transmitter and
transponder. Actually blows between them from the side. I got it at
Radio Shack. Paid about $6 for it. Its a squirrel cage style fan and it
takes little room. For throes of you who ask why, temperatures behind the
panel can get hot. Transmitters and such do not like elevated temps.
around them. So I put a fan to blow on the hot ends of the units and put
a 2" x 4" vent on the top of the panel over the radio stack to let out
the hot air. The vent is a air conditioning vent from a car that had the
shape I wanted. Looks good enough.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
On Thu, 22 May 2003 17:22:04 -0400 "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> writes:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
> "It's by the way that my experiences are that it's apiece of "sh..."
> and that so called ICOM agents at Wolverhampton couldn't adjust it
> to suit my installation nor would they fly in the a/c to try to
> adjust it more suitably in working conditions and could only bench
> set it to
> the written instructions with a shrug of the shoulders as to the
> likely cause of the problem."
>
> Now Robert,
> You say that you don't believe in reacting to hearsay,
> but then give us your experiences...........? What are we to
> consider your experiences? Aren't they hearsay for us?
> The handheld is an aviation form of a very popular amateur
> radio/marine/.emergency
> portable which is tested and run by numerous agencies around the
> world, so by what criteria does CAA on the island measure its
> failure?
> Has it been proven not to be the antenna, transmission
> cable, local interference, or power swamping, or does CAA just not
> like some of the correspondence? That is, who and what are being
> tested?
> Each radio distributor in every parish has an opinion
> about his/her agent - and those awarded an agency are not always the
> best qualified, but simply the contract attainees. The radio untis
> don't know which parish they fall into. Radio (just like flying)
> incurs the greatest difficulty from political borders, not science.
> Admittedly, the three major Nippon makers, Yaesu, ICOM and Kenwood
> (AKA Trio) all produce the majority of handheld units around the
> world - by that I mean for two million users in ham radio alone -
> and very few are awarded the "piece of S....." medal on the basis of
> unemotional testing.
> Perhaps we should hear from a majority first?
> Cheers, ferg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: ICOMA200 radio assessments |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger <fillinger@ameritech.net>
James Nelson wrote:
> Transmitters and such do not like elevated temps.
> around them. So I put a fan to blow on the hot ends of the units and put
> a 2" x 4" vent on the top of the panel over the radio stack to let out
> the hot air.
Please excuse some technical commentary here re transmitters, but
elevated temps are moot re the final transmit stages. I fear the
impression we may need to cool a comm box to make it work right.
Whether or not the A200 in the overall can take elevated ambient temps
is one thing, but in xmit function alone forget about it. I've seen it
numerous times on the test bench on various comms.
Aircraft comms are designed for very brief transmissions and low duty
cycle, but in tweaking them for much longer periods, all that happens is
the temps around the final, heat-sinked transistor output stage rises,
like a lot, but not one whit decrease in power output, or even distorted
detected-audio output on the "scope" for that matter. There's a
technical explanation for all this, but to put out 7-8 watts into 50
ohms swinging a fraction 14V (or even less) supply voltage, well there's
ways to do that and get away with it, but ambient temp sensitivity ain't
one of the issues.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 11
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| Subject: | ICOMA200 radio assessments |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>>> So I put a fan to blow on the hot ends of the units and put
a 2" x 4" vent on the top of the panel over the radio stack to let out
the hot air. The vent is a air conditioning vent from a car that had the
shape I wanted. Looks good enough.
...or if you push the warm air out of a small slot at the top front of
the panel you end up with a really neat little demister! Just make sure
that the slot is as far forward as possible otherwise you end up with a
reflection on the windscreen.
Tony
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