---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/26/03: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:14 AM - Re: Microair transponder (Kevin Taylor) 2. 01:31 AM - Denmark trip (david joyce) 3. 01:48 AM - Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them (Nick Hammond) 4. 02:43 AM - Re: Denmark trip (R.C.Harrison) 5. 06:42 AM - Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them (James Nelson) 6. 09:00 AM - Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them (Dale Hetrick) 7. 09:46 AM - Static charges, etc (david joyce) 8. 11:28 AM - Mods needed for glider wings? (Ronald J. Parigoris) 9. 02:12 PM - Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them (R.C.Harrison) 10. 02:33 PM - Re: Static charges, etc (James Nelson) 11. 04:10 PM - Re: Mods needed for glider wings? (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu) 12. 06:03 PM - Re: Static Charges and how to avoid them (Dale Hetrick) 13. 06:24 PM - Re: Static charges, etc (kbcarpenter@comcast.net) 14. 10:11 PM - Door latch (RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils)) 15. 11:03 PM - Re: Fuel outlet rubber hose (Roland Robinson@tiscali.co.uk) 16. 11:48 PM - Re: Static charges, etc (J R \(Bob\) Gowing) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:55 AM PST US From: "Kevin Taylor" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Microair transponder --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Taylor" Tim, Its not the back light all the black segments are on the back light makes no difference. Thanks Kev T ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Microair transponder > --> Europa-List message posted by: Tim Ward > > Kevin, > Use the backlight by pressing the ON button lightly once for the first level of backlighting, and twice for the second level of backlighting. > In the instructions. > Cheers, > Tim > > Kevin Taylor wrote: > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Taylor" > > > > Tried fitting a microair transponder to my plane but appear to have problem. 2 transponders both new both do the same. > > > > All the segments are black on the display and if you look from the side you can just see the number underneath. But it just isn't useable. > > > > I'm not using alt encoder etc so have connected just the 2 live pins and 2 ground pins. > > > > And Aerial of course > > > > Regards > > > > Kev T > > > > Anyone any ideas > > > > --- > > > > -- > Timothy P Ward > 12 Waiwetu Street, > Fendalton, > Christchurch, > NEW ZEALAND > > Ph. 0064 3 3515166 > email ward.t@xtra.co.nz > Mobile 025 2649325 > > --- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:11 AM PST US From: "david joyce" Subject: Europa-List: Denmark trip --> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" Am contemplating flying to the Staunig Rally and wondered whether anyone has already done their homework to find out up to date regulations for overflying or landing in Belgium, Holland, Germany and Denmark in a Permit aircraft. I know that we need extra insurance for Gemany ( 3 million Euros, I hope) and Denmark (60mill kroners, I hope) , but what is the score for prior permission and noise certificates? David Joyce G-XSDJ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static Charges and how to avoid them From: "Nick Hammond" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nick Hammond" Fred, I agree with you that bonding other metal parts in the fuel system to the filler cap is probably less safe rather than more so. However if fuel drains are fitted, I think it's a good idea to ground them independently. Although it's a fairly remote possibility the last thing you need is a spark when you are lying on the ground draining fuel! Best regards, Nick Original Message --------------- Time: 06:33:01 PM PST US From: Fred Fillinger Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static Charges and how to avoid them --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote: > So am I to conclude that there should be two separate electrical bonds > in the plane? One for all the regular things that need electrons to > operate (lights, engine, instruments, etc.) and a separate one that > bonds the various nonoperating parts of the fueling systems to a > single point that one can attach a ramp ground wire to and the > container that the fuel is presently in when refueling. There is no need for the A/C's electrical system ground be involved, but a practical consideration is that airport fueling personnel will attach the bonding wire to the exhaust pipe. One need minimally only bond the metal filler opening, so I suppose one could placard the filler to that effect and provide a means of attaching the clip. If by "bonding the various nonoperating parts of the fueling system" means other than the filler cap, then I believe that's more hazardous. What will happen is that any static accumulating in the vicinity of those metal parts will be sent to the filler cap, unnecessarily raising its voltage potential. If the filler cap is also earthed in some way, then there's no hazard. Even one's body can drain off the charge if the conditions are right. However, it's best to leave any static deep inside the system, and this is the reason that filling an ungrounded metal can is more hazardous than a plastic container, where static charges tend to remain where they accumulate. Regards, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:26 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Denmark trip --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! David. We've never landed in Belgium so can't help there. No problem with Holland and Denmark, and we made a diversionary landing in Germany on the way to Barkaby onwards to Stauning the following weekend last year without any problem. Oh! now I have my brain engaged we also landed at Atting when I went to the MT Propeller Factory and on the way back landed at Mains Fenton with no problems, so Germany is OK. No requests for documents except occassionally we have had to submit papers to Dutch customs at Lelystad. Usual Flight plans needed to be submitted across all boundaries. Watch out for a very narrow and low corridor to the South of Schiphol on approach to Lelystad though. We slightly "busted" it once, inspite of being in contact with Dutch Military and had the usual telephone call request, but no worries they only used it as a "reminder". But the charts are a little confusing just there, difference between 1500ft and 1200 ft as I remember. You really need to "play the lilly white man" passing Ostend keep him in good contact because he can be very "techy" .... he gave another guy a good roasting on air once when we went past!(Mind you he deserved it!) All EU flying is now "harmonised" for Permit Aircraft but of course but specific authority is still required by Norway not being in the EU. BTW Sweden is a good place to go, fuel is 1/3rd our prices(almost worth divering there for a fill up!) and foreigners get to buy a 28 pass giving as many landings as you like and all overnight parking for a week. But all flights need to be on flight plans because of emergency services notification (lots of trees lakes and outcrops of rock! Just the place for a misfire, been there and done it!!!!) Hope to see you there? Roger Anderson,I believe, is planning to go to Stauning with a German Fly In on the way back. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of david joyce Subject: Europa-List: Denmark trip --> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" Am contemplating flying to the Staunig Rally and wondered whether anyone has already done their homework to find out up to date regulations for overflying or landing in Belgium, Holland, Germany and Denmark in a Permit aircraft. I know that we need extra insurance for Gemany ( 3 million Euros, I hope) and Denmark (60mill kroners, I hope) , but what is the score for prior permission and noise certificates? David Joyce G-XSDJ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static Charges and how to avoid them From: James Nelson --> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson No, It should be all on one common bond. Ground at one point should be ground for all the systems. Jim Nelson On Sun, 25 May 2003 12:43:58 EDT DuaneFamly@aol.com writes: > --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com > > So am I to conclude that there should be two separate electrical > bonds in the > plane? One for all the regular things that need electrons to operate > (lights, > engine, instruments, etc.) and a separate one that bonds the various > > nonoperating parts of the fueling systems to a single point that one > can attach a ramp > ground wire to and the container that the fuel is presently in when > > refueling. > > For those people that drive up to a fuel pump at a gas station and > insert a > fuel nozzle to fill the tank, anyone have any special safety tips > for this > procedure? > > Mike Duane A207 > Redding, California > XS Trigear > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static Charges and how to avoid them From: Dale Hetrick --> Europa-List message posted by: Dale Hetrick All, There seems to be a lot of reliance on grounding the "filler cap" plus other components to create a grounding path. If other "filler caps" are like mine, it's not possible because its plastic, not aluminum as it appears to be. Dale A#140 On Sun, 25 May 2003 21:32:40 -0400 Fred Fillinger writes: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger > > > DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote: > > So am I to conclude that there should be two separate electrical > bonds > > in the plane? One for all the regular things that need electrons > to > > operate (lights, engine, instruments, etc.) and a separate one > that > > bonds the various nonoperating parts of the fueling systems to a > > single point that one can attach a ramp ground wire to and the > > container that the fuel is presently in when refueling. > > There is no need for the A/C's electrical system ground be involved, > but > a practical consideration is that airport fueling personnel will > attach > the bonding wire to the exhaust pipe. One need minimally only bond > the > metal filler opening, so I suppose one could placard the filler to > that > effect and provide a means of attaching the clip. > > If by "bonding the various nonoperating parts of the fueling system" > > means other than the filler cap, then I believe that's more > hazardous. > What will happen is that any static accumulating in the vicinity of > > those metal parts will be sent to the filler cap, unnecessarily > raising > its voltage potential. If the filler cap is also earthed in some > way, > then there's no hazard. Even one's body can drain off the charge if > the > conditions are right. However, it's best to leave any static deep > inside the system, and this is the reason that filling an ungrounded > > metal can is more hazardous than a plastic container, where static > charges tend to remain where they accumulate. > > Regards, > Fred F. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:02 AM PST US From: "david joyce" Subject: Europa-List: Static charges, etc --> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" I have followed this discussion with great interest and growing confusion. The only clear messages that I have got out of it are, (1) that routing anything metallic down into the tank simply invites lightning to attack you where it hurts most, and (2) Vapour concentrations down any of the pipes should be high enough to inhibit any fire or explosion. I wonder whether anything proposed improves on my Europa Manual suggestion of grounding absolutely nothing in the fuel system! As far as filling goes I am tempted to think that the simple approach might also be best. By this I mean using a metal jerry can, with bare hands (which will thus automatically be grounded or at least equilibrated with you) and deliberately touching the metal neck of the filler, before removing the cap, which will thus equilibrate with you also, and will pretty much guarantee that you will not get a spark anywhere where there is any possibility of of it igniting anything. David G-XSDJ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:28:42 AM PST US From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Subject: Europa-List: Mods needed for glider wings? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Hey Guys Work area almost ready to begin build. Currently have the Monowheel, Shortwing and Accelerated Cockpit Module. Later on good chance will get a set of Long Wings. Question: Would it be a good idea to do any work now, to make addition of long wings easier later on? Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:00 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Static Charges and how to avoid them --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Dale, I've presumed they mean the aliminium neck to the filler. My system has always to have the fuel supply pump grounded at the exhaust , I make sure I touch the neck with a damp finger whilst removing the cap and I touch the fuel nozzle on to the neck whilst filling. No problems yet but can't say I've ever found really dry conditions in Europe yet. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dale Hetrick Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static Charges and how to avoid them --> Europa-List message posted by: Dale Hetrick All, There seems to be a lot of reliance on grounding the "filler cap" plus other components to create a grounding path. If other "filler caps" are like mine, it's not possible because its plastic, not aluminum as it appears to be. Dale A#140 On Sun, 25 May 2003 21:32:40 -0400 Fred Fillinger writes: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger > > > DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote: > > So am I to conclude that there should be two separate electrical > bonds > > in the plane? One for all the regular things that need electrons > to > > operate (lights, engine, instruments, etc.) and a separate one > that > > bonds the various nonoperating parts of the fueling systems to a > > single point that one can attach a ramp ground wire to and the > > container that the fuel is presently in when refueling. > > There is no need for the A/C's electrical system ground be involved, > but > a practical consideration is that airport fueling personnel will > attach > the bonding wire to the exhaust pipe. One need minimally only bond > the > metal filler opening, so I suppose one could placard the filler to > that > effect and provide a means of attaching the clip. > > If by "bonding the various nonoperating parts of the fueling system" > > means other than the filler cap, then I believe that's more > hazardous. > What will happen is that any static accumulating in the vicinity of > > those metal parts will be sent to the filler cap, unnecessarily > raising > its voltage potential. If the filler cap is also earthed in some > way, > then there's no hazard. Even one's body can drain off the charge if > the > conditions are right. However, it's best to leave any static deep > inside the system, and this is the reason that filling an ungrounded > > metal can is more hazardous than a plastic container, where static > charges tend to remain where they accumulate. > > Regards, > Fred F. > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static charges, etc From: James Nelson --> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson Right Dave, Sometimes the simplest way is best. It easy to get deep in the theory and what to do about those things. Just be careful, and keep a fire extinguisher about 6 - 10 feet away. Know how to put out a fuel fed fire. Have a breeze blowing is good in keeping the vapors away and in concentrations to low to burn. Don't get to wrapped up in our dissertations and ramblings in the nether world of vapors. I used to design and build "gas houses" to fill aerosol cans with propane, iso butane and other fine very flammable propellants for our consumers in out ever throw away world. Have a ball building our fine aeroplane. Got 43 hours on mine so I am out of the restrictions and can go most anywhere I want now!! Yea!! What a lovely flying bird.. BTW include a 8 to 10" trim tab on one of the ailerons to keep things level. Mine is 6" and is not enough to keep my starboard wing down. I have to have my tab about an inch up at the trailing edge to keep the wings level. I guess I just didn't have my wings exactly the same when setting the angle of incidence with the pins. Oh well that is what trim tabs are for. Jim Nelson N15JN On Mon, 26 May 2003 17:49:31 +0100 "david joyce" writes: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" > > > I have followed this discussion with great interest and growing > confusion. The only clear messages that I have got out of it are, > (1) that routing anything metallic down into the tank simply invites > lightning to attack you where it hurts most, and (2) Vapour > concentrations down any of the pipes should be high enough to > inhibit any fire or explosion. > I wonder whether anything proposed improves on my Europa > Manual suggestion of grounding absolutely nothing in the fuel > system! As far as filling goes I am tempted to think that the > simple approach might also be best. By this I mean using a metal > jerry can, with bare hands (which will thus automatically be > grounded or at least equilibrated with you) and deliberately > touching the metal neck of the filler, before removing the cap, > which will thus equilibrate with you also, and will pretty much > guarantee that you will not get a spark anywhere where there is any > possibility of of it igniting anything. David G-XSDJ > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:40 PM PST US From: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mods needed for glider wings? 05/26/2003 07:10:10 PM --> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu Hi Ron, The main thing I know of is to do the dive brake control install while the cockpit module out of the fuse. If you wait til you are done, you will be squeezed for space and have to rip up uphostery. Ira (currently wiring at FlightCrafters, 90F in the shade) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static Charges and how to avoid them From: Dale Hetrick --> Europa-List message posted by: Dale Hetrick Bob, You must have gotten one of aluminum filler caps and neck. Mine is plastic but looks like aluminum. Did you check for continuity across portions of the neck? Dale Dale On Mon, 26 May 2003 22:18:43 +0100 "R.C.Harrison" writes: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > > > Hi! Dale, > I've presumed they mean the aliminium neck to the filler. My system > has > always to have the fuel supply pump grounded at the exhaust , I make > sure I > touch the neck with a damp finger whilst removing the cap and I > touch the > fuel nozzle on to the neck whilst filling. > No problems yet but can't say I've ever found really dry conditions > in > Europe yet. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dale > Hetrick > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static Charges and how to avoid them > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Dale Hetrick > > All, > There seems to be a lot of reliance on grounding the "filler cap" > plus > other components to create a grounding path. If other "filler caps" > are > like mine, it's not possible because its plastic, not aluminum as > it > appears to be. > Dale > A#140 > On Sun, 25 May 2003 21:32:40 -0400 Fred Fillinger > writes: > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger > > > > > > DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote: > > > So am I to conclude that there should be two separate > electrical > > bonds > > > in the plane? One for all the regular things that need > electrons > > to > > > operate (lights, engine, instruments, etc.) and a separate one > > that > > > bonds the various nonoperating parts of the fueling systems to > a > > > single point that one can attach a ramp ground wire to and the > > > container that the fuel is presently in when refueling. > > > > There is no need for the A/C's electrical system ground be > involved, > > but > > a practical consideration is that airport fueling personnel will > > attach > > the bonding wire to the exhaust pipe. One need minimally only bond > > the > > metal filler opening, so I suppose one could placard the filler > to > > that > > effect and provide a means of attaching the clip. > > > > If by "bonding the various nonoperating parts of the fueling > system" > > > > means other than the filler cap, then I believe that's more > > hazardous. > > What will happen is that any static accumulating in the vicinity > of > > > > those metal parts will be sent to the filler cap, unnecessarily > > raising > > its voltage potential. If the filler cap is also earthed in some > > way, > > then there's no hazard. Even one's body can drain off the charge > if > > the > > conditions are right. However, it's best to leave any static > deep > > inside the system, and this is the reason that filling an > ungrounded > > > > metal can is more hazardous than a plastic container, where > static > > charges tend to remain where they accumulate. > > > > Regards, > > Fred F. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:32 PM PST US From: kbcarpenter@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static charges, etc --> Europa-List message posted by: kbcarpenter@comcast.net I agree with you Jim, on the static issue. I also have the same characteristic on the aileron trim. My tab is 7" and not quite enough. I added a 6" Flettner strip under the starboard aileron and now have enough trim tab. It balanced nicely now. I think the wings may be a little off on incidence but it stalls straight ahead with no wicked tricks. I am now at 118 hours in 11 months. All is running well and I find the Digitak Autopilot works well. Ken Carpenter N9XS mono 914T ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Nelson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static charges, etc > --> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson > > Right Dave, > Sometimes the simplest way is best. It easy to get deep in the > theory and what to do about those things. Just be careful, and keep a > fire extinguisher about 6 - 10 feet away. Know how to put out a fuel fed > fire. Have a breeze blowing is good in keeping the vapors away and in > concentrations to low to burn. Don't get to wrapped up in our > dissertations and ramblings in the nether world of vapors. I used to > design and build "gas houses" to fill aerosol cans with propane, iso > butane and other fine very flammable propellants for our consumers in out > ever throw away world. > Have a ball building our fine aeroplane. Got 43 hours on mine so > I am out of the restrictions and can go most anywhere I want now!! Yea!! > What a lovely flying bird.. BTW include a 8 to 10" trim tab on one of > the ailerons to keep things level. Mine is 6" and is not enough to keep > my starboard wing down. I have to have my tab about an inch up at the > trailing edge to keep the wings level. I guess I just didn't have my > wings exactly the same when setting the angle of incidence with the pins. > Oh well that is what trim tabs are for. > > Jim Nelson > N15JN > > > On Mon, 26 May 2003 17:49:31 +0100 "david joyce" > writes: > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" > > > > > > I have followed this discussion with great interest and growing > > confusion. The only clear messages that I have got out of it are, > > (1) that routing anything metallic down into the tank simply invites > > lightning to attack you where it hurts most, and (2) Vapour > > concentrations down any of the pipes should be high enough to > > inhibit any fire or explosion. > > I wonder whether anything proposed improves on my Europa > > Manual suggestion of grounding absolutely nothing in the fuel > > system! As far as filling goes I am tempted to think that the > > simple approach might also be best. By this I mean using a metal > > jerry can, with bare hands (which will thus automatically be > > grounded or at least equilibrated with you) and deliberately > > touching the metal neck of the filler, before removing the cap, > > which will thus equilibrate with you also, and will pretty much > > guarantee that you will not get a spark anywhere where there is any > > possibility of of it igniting anything. David G-XSDJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:47 PM PST US From: RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils) Subject: Europa-List: Door latch --> Europa-List message posted by: RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils) Europa "egg" door latch. I've installed a wooden egg to prevent the cabin doors from bulging in flight. A wooden egg is trimmed and affixed to each door so that as the door closes the pointy end of the egg inserts into a circular hole in the fuselage. The shape of the egg draws the door to an exact fit with the fuselage and holds it there securely. Here's how. Buy a wooden egg at your wife's favorite craft store and while you're there get some modeling clay too if you don't have some already. It takes a chunk about the size of your fingers tightly squeezed. A glue gun might be the third purchase. They're inexpensive and really helpful in all kinds of tasks around the shop. Hot glue sets much faster than 5-minute epoxy so it's really great for holding things in place. Drill a hole into the fuselage at the center, half way between the shoot bolts that hold the door closed and centered on the fuselage lip. The width of the hole is determined by how far you want the egg to drop into the hole. I used ~ 1"circumference so the hole squeezes the egg about a third of the way up it. To determine what to cut away from the egg to shape it into a plunger put the egg pointy side down into the hole you've cut. Warm up some modeling clay and squeeze it around the implanted egg. Pull, twist and cajole the egg out of the clay. Close the door tightly on the eggless clay. This presses the clay and defines the space you have between the fuselage and the door. When you open the door the egg's hole has been squished back into where the egg used to be, partially filling the hole. Being an artist, razor out the hole in the clay so you can place the egg's pointy end back into the clay. Push the egg back into the clay. With a marking pen draw a line around the outer half to three quarters of the egg where the clay contacts it. Take the egg out again and close the door. Look down through the window and note on the clay where the egg should not be trimmed so that it will be flush with the inside of the door for added adhesion contact. Open the door, push an indent into the clay where the egg should not be trimmed. Put the egg into the clay, mark the egg's forward and rear side where you made the indentation into the clay. Take the egg out and freehand a vertical arch on the egg giving you a cut line. I used a belt sander to trim the egg to gross fit. Just hold it against the front of the belt sander as the sander is held upside down in a vise. The cylindrical front of a belt sander grinds away most of the wooden egg you don't want. To fine-trim the egg hot glue it into the hole in the fuselage. Use a dremel , a wood file and some disclosing paper to shape the egg exactly to the contour of the door. Close the door gently on the egg while you hold the disclosing paper in the gap between the egg and the door. Pull the disclosing paper slowly out thereby leaving a mark on the egg where you need to grind it back. Grind away where the disclosing paper shows the egg contour is high. When you have the egg contoured enough to completely close the door feel the bottom of the door to be sure it is flush with the fuselage. If it's not, then use a couple of studs, wooden studs - not masculine buffoons, and some carpenter's wooden door wedges to squeeze the fuselage-door planes to proper fit. If your egg is still hotglued to the fuselage twist it out leaving the remaining hotglue on the surface of the egg so it can be reinserted into the fuselage correctly. When you're satisfied with how everything goes together, mix up the smallest accurate batch of Epibond 420 to affix the eggs to the doors. It doesn't take much at all. Add a little cotton fiber to make some stiff flox. Paint some Epibond onto the carved out egg and onto the area on the door where the egg will be affixed. Smear some Vaseline wherever the Epibond could foul up this whole project! Put the egg into the fuselage hole, smear on some flox and close the door. Leave it to dry completely. Open the door. Use some more Epibond and Bid to secure the egg onto the door. I didn't glass up the fuselage hole to make an egg-holding cup. I don't think it's necessary and besides it'd add weight. The egg solution weighs ounces, has no moving parts and works like a charm. Who could ask for anything more? Rob Neils, Ph.D. A162 Tri-MG ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:08 PM PST US From: "Roland Robinson@tiscali.co.uk" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel outlet rubber hose --> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland Robinson@tiscali.co.uk" Thanks for yours and other thoughts on this one. Whatever the reason I am just pleased that the replacement of the (dubious quality) fuel line cured that problem. It also caused me to re-assess my engine failure on take off procedures! Roly (G-CHAV) ----- Original Message ----- From: "david joyce" Subject: Europa-List: Fuel outlet rubber hose > --> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" > > Thinking more about Roland's problem, I wonder whether he could have had a damaged end with the inner part seperated from the outer, which allowed a flap to get pushed in when forcing the hose on to the connector, partially blocking the lumen, only allowing adequate fuel flow for small throttle openings, and having no route for a fuel leak to make things obvious. A burst of full throttle might push the flap a bit further in or simply use up the fuel in the carb bowls.It is easy to imagine that further handling of the pipe could then produce a full thickness split. David Joyce > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:33 PM PST US From: "J R \(Bob\) Gowing" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static charges, etc --> Europa-List message posted by: "J R \(Bob\) Gowing" To David Joyce - here is what I told Tony Renshaw - See SAAA Const of Amateur Built Aircraft in Australia on page 43 - Fuel Tank Bonding " ................Any metal filler necks or caps, in nonmetallic rubber bladder or composite type tanks must also be bonded. A bonding lug for attachment of the earthing lead on the refilling nozzle must be provided adjacent to all tank openings and this must be connected to the aircraft's bonding system." I have mine soldered to the water drain pipe (inside the tank) and coming up to the filler neck at this stage. It will be connected electrically to the earthing system. J R (Bob) Gowing, Kit 327 in Oz ----- Original Message ----- From: "david joyce" Subject: Europa-List: Static charges, etc > --> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" > > I have followed this discussion with great interest and growing confusion. The only clear messages that I have got out of it are, (1) that routing anything metallic down into the tank simply invites lightning to attack you where it hurts most, and (2) Vapour concentrations down any of the pipes should be high enough to inhibit any fire or explosion. > I wonder whether anything proposed improves on my Europa Manual suggestion of grounding absolutely nothing in the fuel system! As far as filling goes I am tempted to think that the simple approach might also be best. By this I mean using a metal jerry can, with bare hands (which will thus automatically be grounded or at least equilibrated with you) and deliberately touching the metal neck of the filler, before removing the cap, which will thus equilibrate with you also, and will pretty much guarantee that you will not get a spark anywhere where there is any possibility of of it igniting anything. David G-XSDJ All above seems relevant. Matronics info snipped