Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:25 AM - Re: Exhaust Departure Angle (Miles McCallum)
2. 05:08 AM - Builders in Vancouver (RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils))
3. 05:22 AM - Re: closing the xs wing (Kevin Klinefelter)
4. 06:37 AM - Re: Exhaust Departure Angle (david joyce)
5. 08:08 AM - Re: Mods needed for glider wings? (Neville Eyre)
6. 08:34 AM - Re: C-FIRS First Flight (Andy Draper)
7. 08:58 AM - Exhaust exit angled cut off. (R.C.Harrison)
8. 09:04 AM - Re: Exhaust Departure Angle (Neville Eyre)
9. 12:45 PM - Re: Exhaust Departure Angle (Jim Brown)
10. 01:42 PM - Re: Exhaust Departure Angle (Ami McFadyean)
11. 01:58 PM - Re: Exhaust Departure Angle (Miles McCallum)
12. 07:44 PM - Re: Mods needed for glider wings? (Joseph J. Like)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Departure Angle |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Miles McCallum" <milesm@avnet.co.uk>
Re exhaust thrust equations -- Look at the CAFE article in Sport Aviation
from
about Jan or Feb of 1997. However, they contain some pretty severe
mistakes.
Also look at sport aviation from a couple of months later for a page
(colored
yellow) that contains a response from Jim Cunningham providing corrections
for their equations.
M
>
>
> Greetings All,
>
> I recently enjoyed reading Ken Paser's "Economy with Speed".
> It is essentially a study of the effects of applying 30-70 year old known
> aeronautical design best practices (from NACA reports) to the improvement
> of a modern homebuilt. The results is a much awarded and honored
> Busby Mustang 20 or 30 mph faster than others of its design.
>
> One technique involves canting the muffler discharge into the axis of
> flight to both mitigate the drag of the exhaust plume and simultaneously
> gain a small amount of thrust.
>
> Has anyone experimented with the Europa's exhaust? Best angle, etc?
> I know you donj't want to go straight back to avoid melting or staining
the
> fuselage.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Builders in Vancouver |
--> Europa-List message posted by: RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils)
Alex Bowman lives a ferry ride out of Vancouver on an island off Nanaimo.
He's building without being on the grid - his power is from wind and solar
in his very limited work space. His bird is nearly ready to fly. He used
to fly with the Snowbirds, is a true gentleman and special delight to be
with. Swaping stories with Alex over a bottle of scotch is one of those
"don't-miss-it" events of a lifetime. I've not found a truer friend and
appreciate Europa for having put us together. He's helped me and I've
helped him. He's at (250) 755-9207.
> > Are there any Europa builers in the Vancouver area?
Message 3
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| Subject: | closing the xs wing |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
I used less than 400 grams per wing.
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
Subject: Europa-List: closing the xs wing
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" <mp.gamble@virgin.net>
Just to give me some idea (and accepting the fact that the clearance ribs to
panel will vary kit to kit) - what is the average amount of redux/flox mix
needed to stick the top panel to the xs wing?
Anyone remember how much he used for this?
Thanks
Mike Gamble
XS 440
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Departure Angle |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" <davidjoyce@beeb.net>
Ira, I thought along similar lines and ended up cutting the end obliquely
off my exhaust pipe, and angling it back a bit, modelling it on one of the
earlier company planes which is widely pictured. It saved an ounce or two in
weight,I cannot say whether it has helped it go fast (altough it certainly
does that) but it definitely has (1) produced a sharper edge to cut the
unwary head returning from looking up the engine compartment skirt, and (2)
led to a tendency to stain the fuselage a nicotine like colour which seems
quite a bit more marked than my contemporaries with untrimmed pipes! As I
have a gel coat finish I can get this muck off from time to time with
acetone, but guess it might be a real pain with standard paint finishes. Of
course it may be unrelated to the exhaust and simply indicate that the carbs
need tuning, but I doubt it. David Joyce----- Original Message -----
From: <irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Europa-List: Exhaust Departure Angle
> --> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
>
>
> Greetings All,
>
> I recently enjoyed reading Ken Paser's "Economy with Speed".
> It is essentially a study of the effects of applying 30-70 year old known
> aeronautical design best practices (from NACA reports) to the improvement
> of a modern homebuilt. The results is a much awarded and honored
> Busby Mustang 20 or 30 mph faster than others of its design.
>
> One technique involves canting the muffler discharge into the axis of
> flight to both mitigate the drag of the exhaust plume and simultaneously
> gain a small amount of thrust.
>
> Has anyone experimented with the Europa's exhaust? Best angle, etc?
> I know you donj't want to go straight back to avoid melting or staining
the
> fuselage.
> Andy? Neville? Graham?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ira N224XS
> Panel in and Fired Up
> Off the to Painters Soon :-)
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Mods needed for glider wings? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Neville Eyre" <Neville@europa-aircraft.com>
Hi All,
With regards to retro fitting the Motor Glider Wings to an existing Classic or
XS fuselage, we do indeed have a cunning plan!
The Manual has the full description and the required drilling guides/bushes are
supplied in the Kit. This operation is actually easier than the original procedure
described in the Classic Manual for the installation of the lift/drag pins.
I will be at Kemble and Oshkosh, and will be glad to run through the operation
to anyone willing to buy me a pint!
Cheers,
Nev.
>>> "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> 05/28/03 04:13am >>>
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Bob,
I did ask Neville at the factory the same question and they have a method
for doing this for the earlier Europa's that did not have pre drilled holes.
I can't recollect the exact details but the approach was pretty cunning. If
its something you want to pursue send him an email.
Cheers, Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "J R (Bob) Gowing" <gowingjr@acr.net.au>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mods needed for glider wings?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "J R \(Bob\) Gowing"
<gowingjr@acr.net.au>
>
> Thank you Tony,
> It has had me intrigued but have not seen any explanation published in
> Europa Aricraft News where one would expect to see such informantion; or
> anywhere else.
>
> Now I can permanently forget glider wings!
>
> J R (Bob) Gowing, Kit 327 in Oz
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mods needed for glider wings?
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski"
<tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
> >
> >
> > >>> I have thought that it would be abit of ajob to get the lift pins in
> > exactly
> > the same position on the second pair of wings. Anyone done this easily
> > yet?
> >
> > I think that was one of the drivers behind the factory predrilling and
> > tapping the lift pin holes in the XS short wings and glider wings.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: C-FIRS First Flight |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
CONGRATULATIONS from us all, Karl, on getting your Europa in the air.
Can you send us a photo, please, when you get the opportunity.
Best regards
Andy
>>> "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com> 05/30/03 10:28pm >>>
--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Finally, Ser. # 392 trigear made its first flight today, piloted by Chris
Staines, who came a long way
from London, Ontario in his own beautiful and well equipped 914 powered
Classic Mono. He took
off and made a perfect landing as if there was nothing to it. Everything
seems to work and she
flies straight and level, what more can you ask for.
Built in the UK and more or less finished in October 2001, it took another
19 months to get to the maiden flight in Canada, I believe it is Europa No.
2 in Ontario.
Looking forward to an exciting summer, and the glider wings are next
(already in the basement).
Cheers, Karl
Message 7
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| Subject: | Exhaust exit angled cut off. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Ira ...all.
I have three tail pipes two starboard side are aligned pretty close together
and I have cut the exits to aprox. 45 deg. to exit into the air stream
sideways and downwards from the aircraft belly. Also the portside one same
angle but to the port side and downwards.
Originally the single one in the middle cut square certainly made the belly
more grubby than now they are angled out wards.
I do believe that the air stream plays a part in reducing the exhaust back
pressure by venturi type action as well as less deposits on the aircraft.
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Departure Angle |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Neville Eyre" <Neville@europa-aircraft.com>
Hi All,
To remove the ''nicotine'' stain from the exhaust stream, petrol (that is gasoline
for those in the U.S.) seems to work best, better than Acetone.
If the recomended paint is used, VIRTUALLY NOTHING will effect it! ( I have tested
it with 40% Nitro Glow Fuel !)
Cheers,
Nev.
>>> "david joyce" <davidjoyce@beeb.net> 06/02/03 02:40pm >>>
--> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" <davidjoyce@beeb.net>
Ira, I thought along similar lines and ended up cutting the end obliquely
off my exhaust pipe, and angling it back a bit, modelling it on one of the
earlier company planes which is widely pictured. It saved an ounce or two in
weight,I cannot say whether it has helped it go fast (altough it certainly
does that) but it definitely has (1) produced a sharper edge to cut the
unwary head returning from looking up the engine compartment skirt, and (2)
led to a tendency to stain the fuselage a nicotine like colour which seems
quite a bit more marked than my contemporaries with untrimmed pipes! As I
have a gel coat finish I can get this muck off from time to time with
acetone, but guess it might be a real pain with standard paint finishes. Of
course it may be unrelated to the exhaust and simply indicate that the carbs
need tuning, but I doubt it. David Joyce----- Original Message -----
From: <irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Europa-List: Exhaust Departure Angle
> --> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
>
>
> Greetings All,
>
> I recently enjoyed reading Ken Paser's "Economy with Speed".
> It is essentially a study of the effects of applying 30-70 year old known
> aeronautical design best practices (from NACA reports) to the improvement
> of a modern homebuilt. The results is a much awarded and honored
> Busby Mustang 20 or 30 mph faster than others of its design.
>
> One technique involves canting the muffler discharge into the axis of
> flight to both mitigate the drag of the exhaust plume and simultaneously
> gain a small amount of thrust.
>
> Has anyone experimented with the Europa's exhaust? Best angle, etc?
> I know you donj't want to go straight back to avoid melting or staining
the
> fuselage.
> Andy? Neville? Graham?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ira N224XS
> Panel in and Fired Up
> Off the to Painters Soon :-)
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Departure Angle |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
David;
I use a product by K&N the company that makes air filters. The 914 comes with
their cone filter. Any auto parts store or motorcycle parts department that
sells K & N products will have the liquid soap that is used to clean the
filter before it is re-oiled. It works great on the exhaust stain, just spray
it on let it set for few minutes then take a sponge and go over the area. Then
spray it off. Eassssy!!!!!!!!!!! And no harsh chemicals......
It also does a good job on white wing walks.
Jim Brown
david joyce wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" <davidjoyce@beeb.net>
>
> Ira, I thought along similar lines and ended up cutting the end obliquely
> off my exhaust pipe, and angling it back a bit, modelling it on one of the
> earlier company planes which is widely pictured. It saved an ounce or two in
> weight,I cannot say whether it has helped it go fast (altough it certainly
> does that) but it definitely has (1) produced a sharper edge to cut the
> unwary head returning from looking up the engine compartment skirt, and (2)
> led to a tendency to stain the fuselage a nicotine like colour which seems
> quite a bit more marked than my contemporaries with untrimmed pipes! As I
> have a gel coat finish I can get this muck off from time to time with
> acetone, but guess it might be a real pain with standard paint finishes. Of
> course it may be unrelated to the exhaust and simply indicate that the carbs
> need tuning, but I doubt it. David Joyce----- Original Message -----
> From: <irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Europa-List: Exhaust Departure Angle
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
> >
> >
> > Greetings All,
> >
> > I recently enjoyed reading Ken Paser's "Economy with Speed".
> > It is essentially a study of the effects of applying 30-70 year old known
> > aeronautical design best practices (from NACA reports) to the improvement
> > of a modern homebuilt. The results is a much awarded and honored
> > Busby Mustang 20 or 30 mph faster than others of its design.
> >
> > One technique involves canting the muffler discharge into the axis of
> > flight to both mitigate the drag of the exhaust plume and simultaneously
> > gain a small amount of thrust.
> >
> > Has anyone experimented with the Europa's exhaust? Best angle, etc?
> > I know you donj't want to go straight back to avoid melting or staining
> the
> > fuselage.
> > Andy? Neville? Graham?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ira N224XS
> > Panel in and Fired Up
> > Off the to Painters Soon :-)
> >
> >
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Departure Angle |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Miles,
Can you summarise specifically what the Sport Aviation findings were?
(rather than sending us all scurrying to a competitor magazine of yours!).
The NACA reports documenting the original research had three principal
findings related to exhaust improvements that resulted in overall drag
reductions (but none of them related to thrust recovery):
1. The cowl opening around the exhaust tailpipe should be as tight as
possible to minimise air leakage.
2. The amount of tailpipe protruding into the airstream should be as
short as possible or nothing (i.e. cut flush with surface of the cowl, with
suitable protection to the fuselage).
3. the pipe should be angled back, but for the purpose of reducing the
length of plume poking into and disrupting the airstream, not as a means of
thrust recovery. And this was determined on aircraft with 1000hp and more!.
Mention was made of using the exhaust energy to provide a venturi effect
around the cowl air exit, for the purpose of encouraging airflow through the
cowls and improving cooling.
That said, the Spitfire was well documented as gaining some extra speed with
exhaust stubs turned backwards; these days one might call that wartime
"spin".
Any turbo'd engine would already have had its share of exhaust energy
recovery. Don't be greedy David!
I would have thought that the optimum angle to present the tailpipe end to
the airstream in order to reduce backpressure was perpendicular (i.e.
exhaust pipe pointing straight down; must try experimenting by blowing
across one arm of a manometer.)
The automotive world has had its share of "exhaust thrust recovery" gizmos
over the decades; none taken up by OEMs or the racing fraternity. QED!
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miles McCallum" <milesm@avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Exhaust Departure Angle
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Miles McCallum" <milesm@avnet.co.uk>
>
> Re exhaust thrust equations -- Look at the CAFE article in Sport Aviation
> from
> about Jan or Feb of 1997. However, they contain some pretty severe
> mistakes.
> Also look at sport aviation from a couple of months later for a page
> (colored
> yellow) that contains a response from Jim Cunningham providing corrections
> for their equations.
>
> M
> >
> >
> > Greetings All,
> >
> > I recently enjoyed reading Ken Paser's "Economy with Speed".
> > It is essentially a study of the effects of applying 30-70 year old
known
> > aeronautical design best practices (from NACA reports) to the
improvement
> > of a modern homebuilt. The results is a much awarded and honored
> > Busby Mustang 20 or 30 mph faster than others of its design.
> >
> > One technique involves canting the muffler discharge into the axis of
> > flight to both mitigate the drag of the exhaust plume and simultaneously
> > gain a small amount of thrust.
> >
> > Has anyone experimented with the Europa's exhaust? Best angle, etc?
> > I know you donj't want to go straight back to avoid melting or staining
> the
> > fuselage.
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Departure Angle |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Miles McCallum" <milesm@avnet.co.uk>
>
> Miles,
> Can you summarise specifically what the Sport Aviation findings were?
> (rather than sending us all scurrying to a competitor magazine of yours!).
>
>
My copies of the mags are buried in boxes in storage - however from
memory...
Thrust is proportional to mass flow (still benefits if you use a turbo)
outlet is parallel to airstream, and benefits from reducing outlet area
(tapering down final few inches of outlet at, I would guess, less then 7)
exact dimensions are calculated for a specific altitude.
worth a try, I'd say - friend in the US who has been experimenting reckons
about 8-10% benefit at very specific parameters if it's optimised - his PA28
does 140Kt @ 75% @ 8000 ft DA. (also done a lot of aerodynamic cleanups...)
try emailing the CAFE foundation - I think they've been on the case
M
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Mods needed for glider wings? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike@cox.net>
Ira,
How would you know about the 90% outside. You were inside a nice air
conditioned room wiring. I was outside sanding and filling, filling and
sanding for two weeks.
Joe Like
A086
mono/xs/hybride jabiru 3300
irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> The main thing I know of is to do the dive brake control install while the
> cockpit module out of the fuse. If you wait til you are done, you will be
> squeezed for space and have to rip up uphostery.
>
> Ira
>
> (currently wiring at FlightCrafters, 90F in the shade)
>
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