Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:23 AM - 150th Celebration of Flight (British version!) (R.C.Harrison)
2. 02:02 AM - Re: 150th Celebration of Flight (British version!) (Miles McCallum)
3. 02:14 AM - Re: 150th Celebration of Flight (British version!) (Simon Smith)
4. 02:53 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 07/02/03 (Paul Atkinson)
5. 06:47 AM - runway length (Fergus Kyle)
6. 07:21 AM - Re: runway length (Simon Smith)
7. 08:10 AM - Re: runway length (Andy Draper)
8. 10:13 AM - Twisted tail section, maybe?????????? (Erich Trombley)
9. 10:19 AM - Arlington (Erich Trombley)
10. 12:54 PM - Tail-plane flange dosen't match. (Jeff Roberts)
11. 01:47 PM - Re: Tail-plane flange dosen't match. (John & Amy Eckel)
12. 01:52 PM - Re: Tail-plane flange dosen't match. (Fergus Kyle)
13. 02:24 PM - Re: New Oil Dipstick For US Builders (Troy Maynor)
14. 02:54 PM - Re: Tail-plane flange doesn't match. (R.C.Harrison)
15. 04:36 PM - Re: Tail-plane flange dosen't match. (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
16. 04:40 PM - Anybody know the dimensions of the stock throttle quadrant? (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
17. 05:09 PM - Eine Nachricht von Karl Heinz Topp (Michael Grass)
18. 10:18 PM - Re: Anybody know the dimensions of the stock (Gerry Holland)
19. 11:26 PM - Re: Eine Nachricht von Karl Heinz Topp (Jos Okhuijsen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 150th Celebration of Flight (British version!) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! All .
Hedley Brown's message about Sir George Cayley's earlier achievements didn't
mention the web site connected with the appropriate celebrations.
Whilst I'm not connected with the event I feel it to be of interest to
flyers and homebuilders in general and take this opportunity to publish the
relevant web page in the hopes that it will get the attention which I feel
it deserves (but of course I would ..I'm proud to be British, but I'm not a
Yorkie !)
http://www.elvington.biz
Just out of interest I seem to recall something about the runway being the
"longest and deepest" in Europe? They have an excellent museum which
includes an impressive section on the Air Ships which were built at Holme on
Spalding Moor nearby.
Regards to all.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 150th Celebration of Flight (British version!) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Miles McCallum" <milesm@avnet.co.uk>
A replica of Cayley's aeroplane flew last sunday....
Miles
Message 3
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| Subject: | 150th Celebration of Flight (British version!) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
Do not archive
>>Just out of interest I seem to recall something about the runway being the
"longest and deepest" in Europe?
I don't know about the deepest, but Campbletown is usually (incorrectly)
quoted as the longest in Europe. Campbletown, Elvington, Bruntingthorpe,
Stansted and probably others were all built for the USAF at a length of
1000ft or 3048m for those who prefer metric.
Heathrow's 09L/27R is the longest in the UK at 3906m. Last time I checked
(about two years ago) the longest in western Europe was at Madrid 4100m but
it could have changed by now!
Regards
Simon Smith
504 G-BZTN
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 07/02/03 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Atkinson <paul@theatkinsons.demon.co.uk>
Tony
If you have already bonded in your tailplane torque tube you risk
putting that out of alignment if you try any untwisting.
I think you should join the Twisted Europa Club. It is open to anyone
and there are no membership fees.
Paul
On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 07:56 , Europa-List Digest Server wrote:
> Time: 03:56:54 AM PST US
> From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
> Subject: Europa-List: Twisted tail section, maybe??????????
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw
> <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
>
> Ok,
> As I may have someones attention, here is my problem. I am installing my
> rear bulkhead but before I do I realise there is an issue with
> determining
> some datums. I have determined my longitudinal axis on the floor of the
> inside of the boat, and now I notice that the mid point of the 132 mm
> between the leading edge of the fuse to fin union, is actually about 6
> mm
> to port of the floor centreline. My top fits really well currently,
> although I do believe that the top tail section twists easily. So, the
> question is, "do I accept the dis-orientation and if so, where do I
> determine to put the centre of the bulkhead top section, or do I
> straighten
> everything up using a jig( I build the best jigs) and then keep the
> centre
> of the bulkhead in its more logical orientation? I think the answer is
> pretty simple, but I also know that lots may have "just built on through
> this stage, as per the manual" and that would end up with a small
> distortion about the vertical "axis" of the tail section. It probably
> doesn't make that much difference, 6 mm, but I don't know whether to
> chase
> it out or not, or if I choose not to, whether it will result in creating
> more time absorption than had I done it the other way originally. So,
> whatdoyareckon???
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Australia
>
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
"Campbletown, Elvington, Bruntingthorpe, Stansted and probably others were
all built for the USAF at a length of 1000ft "
Seems a bit short to me.
Otherwise, I deeply regret your attempt to usurp my vaunted
position as master of such occurences. My solicitor will be in touch - or,
flintlocks at 30 paces, (or metrically 1000m).
Ferg
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
It should have read 10000ft
Sorry!
Simon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: runway length
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
"Campbletown, Elvington, Bruntingthorpe, Stansted and probably others were
all built for the USAF at a length of 1000ft "
Seems a bit short to me.
Otherwise, I deeply regret your attempt to usurp my vaunted
position as master of such occurences. My solicitor will be in touch - or,
flintlocks at 30 paces, (or metrically 1000m). Ferg
_
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: runway length |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Elvington is 2998m long not the 3000m specified. Apparently the foreman of the
contractor who built the runway needed a driveway at home, hence the missing
2m.
Andy
>>> "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> 07/03/03 02:47pm >>>
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
"Campbletown, Elvington, Bruntingthorpe, Stansted and probably others were
all built for the USAF at a length of 1000ft "
Seems a bit short to me.
Otherwise, I deeply regret your attempt to usurp my vaunted
position as master of such occurences. My solicitor will be in touch - or,
flintlocks at 30 paces, (or metrically 1000m).
Ferg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Twisted tail section, maybe?????????? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
Tony,
If you check the archives you will see several post I have made over the years
addressing this issue. In a nut shell I would recommend bonding in the rear bulkhead
with the top securely fastened with clecos or skin pins. You will find
that with the top securely fastened the twist is removed from the lower fuselage
half.
Regards,
Erich Trombley
A028
90+ hours and having fun flying
Time: 03:56:54 AM PST US
From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Europa-List: Twisted tail section, maybe??????????
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Ok,
As I may have someones attention, here is my problem. I am installing my
rear bulkhead but before I do I realise there is an issue with determining
some datums. I have determined my longitudinal axis on the floor of the
inside of the boat, and now I notice that the mid point of the 132 mm
between the leading edge of the fuse to fin union, is actually about 6 mm
to port of the floor centreline. My top fits really well currently,
although I do believe that the top tail section twists easily. So, the
question is, "do I accept the dis-orientation and if so, where do I
determine to put the centre of the bulkhead top section, or do I straighten
everything up using a jig( I build the best jigs) and then keep the centre
of the bulkhead in its more logical orientation? I think the answer is
pretty simple, but I also know that lots may have "just built on through
this stage, as per the manual" and that would end up with a small
distortion about the vertical "axis" of the tail section. It probably
doesn't make that much difference, 6 mm, but I don't know whether to chase
it out or not, or if I choose not to, whether it will result in creating
more time absorption than had I done it the other way originally. So,
whatdoyareckon???
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
Hello All USA builders,
Anyone en-route to Arlington with an empty seat looking for a passenger please
look me up. I am in Las Vegas, NV and I am willing to split the expenses.
I would love to fly my Europa to the festive occasion, however I am in the process
of painting the plane and it won't be completed for several more weeks as
I am doing it myself.
Regards,
Erich Trombley
A028
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 10
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| Subject: | Tail-plane flange dosen't match. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
Here is a question for those that have tried to finish a Europa to show
specs. The front of the flange that meets the tail plane on the starboard
side is aft of the tail-plane and I was able to fill the elevator out to
meet it with no problem. However the port side is at least a quarter inch
aft of the elevator. I have filled it forward about 1/4 inch but should go
another eighth or so. When the plane is level I would like it to match on
both sides. Any thoughts on this Tail plane / Elevator dilemma. Should I
build with fill out even further?
By the way would someone tell me the difference (If any) between a
tail-plane & elevator. Hope this isnt one of those stupid questions that
makes this low time pilot look lower time.
Jeff
A258 Tri gear
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Tail-plane flange dosen't match. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Jeff,
Can't help you with the alignment of your parts.
Most planes have a horizontal stabilizer and an elevator. The Europa
uses just one surface called a tail-plane. The same type of surface
on a Piper is called a stabilator. I have also heard it called an all-flying
tail.
John, A230
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Roberts" <jeff@rmmm.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Tail-plane flange dosen't match.
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
>
> Here is a question for those that have tried to finish a Europa to show
> specs. The front of the flange that meets the tail plane on the starboard
> side is aft of the tail-plane and I was able to fill the elevator out to
> meet it with no problem. However the port side is at least a quarter inch
> aft of the elevator. I have filled it forward about 1/4 inch but should go
> another eighth or so. When the plane is level I would like it to match on
> both sides. Any thoughts on this Tail plane / Elevator dilemma. Should I
> build with fill out even further?
> By the way would someone tell me the difference (If any) between a
> tail-plane & elevator. Hope this isnt one of those stupid questions that
> makes this low time pilot look lower time.
>
> Jeff
> A258 Tri gear
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Tail-plane flange dosen't match. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Roberts" <jeff@rmmm.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Tail-plane flange dosen't match.
| --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
|
| Here is a question for those that have tried to finish a Europa to show
| specs. The front of the flange that meets the tail plane on the starboard
| side is aft of the tail-plane and I was able to fill the elevator out to
| meet it with no problem. However the port side is at least a quarter inch
| aft of the elevator. I have filled it forward about 1/4 inch but should go
| another eighth or so. When the plane is level I would like it to match on
| both sides. Any thoughts on this Tail plane / Elevator dilemma. Should I
| build with fill out even further?
| By the way would someone tell me the difference (If any) between a
| tail-plane & elevator. Hope this isnt one of those stupid questions that
| makes this low time pilot look lower time.
|
| Jeff
| A258 Tri gear
Jeff,
You are going to get a million answers on this!
Both left (port) and right (starboard) are "stabilators" meaning
the actions of stabilizers and elevators are folded into one. the early name
for this was "flying tail", first on a modern machine was the F86 Sabre,
modelB and the DC-8 series 40. So the whole big job is familiarly called a
"stab" (stealing from the fixed 'satbilizer' of yore. The Brits seem to
oscillate between TailPlane (thus parts are "TP...") and occasionally
others.
Don't know why you're not symmetrical with both, but will let
more knowledgeable types reply to that!
Best of luck and happy Landings
Ferg
Message 13
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| Subject: | New Oil Dipstick For US Builders |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
First I've heard about a deadline. Is it too late for me?
Troy Maynor
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Europa
Aircraft
Subject: Europa-List: New Oil Dipstick For US Builders
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa Aircraft" <europa@gate.net>
Hi All,
For the US builders / flyers today is the last day to request a new oil
dipstick from Lockwood if you need one. You only have to Pay the $1.80 for
shipping.
Call Lockwood (800)527-6829
Happy Flying!!
John
Message 14
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| Subject: | Tail-plane flange doesn't match. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Jeff.
I think that your suggestion is the only way to match up at this stage
except it is weight wasteful! (You could make a point of always parking it
with the stabilator fully up or down!)Then no one would get to notice except
yourself. However you will be one very "unhappy bunny" if you don't ensure
that the filler is well and truly fixed.
I'm thinking that I understand your explanation correctly? (The tail plane
leading edges don't quite match the tail fairing moulding?)
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
>
> Here is a question for those that have tried to finish a Europa to show
> specs. The front of the flange that meets the tail plane on the starboard
> side is aft of the tail-plane and I was able to fill the elevator out to
> meet it with no problem. However the port side is at least a quarter inch
> aft of the elevator. I have filled it forward about 1/4 inch but should go
> another eighth or so. When the plane is level I would like it to match on
> both sides. Any thoughts on this Tail plane / Elevator dilemma. Should I
> build with fill out even further?
> By the way would someone tell me the difference (If any) between a
> tail-plane & elevator. Hope this isnt one of those stupid questions that
> makes this low time pilot look lower time.
>
> Jeff
> A258 Tri gear
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Tail-plane flange dosen't match. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 7/3/2003 3:55:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jeff@rmmm.net
writes:
> Any thoughts on this Tail plane / Elevator dilemma.
Perhaps the TP torque tube is mounted too far back or not even?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 16
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| Subject: | Anybody know the dimensions of the stock throttle quadrant? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Greetings all,
Does anybody know the dimensions of the stock Europa throttle quadrant as
supplied in the FWF kit? What I need to know is the minimum dimension from the
control arm to the bottom. In other words, what is the minimum depth required
for mounting below the panel.
The reason I ask is I'm in the process of fitting finger brakes and I'm
installing a shelf inside the tunnel for the master cylinder to mount on. The
throttle quadrant will be mounted right next to the brake master, so I want to
make
sure there is enough clearance so that I won't have to cut out the shelf when
the throttle is installed later.
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 17
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| Subject: | Eine Nachricht von Karl Heinz Topp |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net>
Hi everybody,
I checked this out and in my opinion there is really nothing to worry about. WEB
DE is a (cheap) German Internet provider who has an Email client including the
address book as a web based application. So, with other words, it acts like
outlook just completely web based and is therefore machine independent . This
message was automatically created by this email client and just wanted to let
the owner of the address know that this person added only this particular address
to the private address book only. The address is, under normal circumstances,
not accessible to a third party. I guess, the only think what went wrong
was: This was the address of a newsgroup. Again, I know from some of my friends
in Germany, that WEB.DE is one of the better and more secure provider. This
is also what I read on the WEB.DE website when I checked it out. German, by the
way is my native language.
Regards
Michael Grass builder of the Trigerar #A266 in Michigan, USA
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody know the dimensions of the stock |
throttle quadrant?
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
John Hi!
>
> Does anybody know the dimensions of the stock Europa throttle quadrant as
> supplied in the FWF kit? What I need to know is the minimum dimension from the
> control arm to the bottom. In other words, what is the minimum depth required
> for mounting below the panel.
I will check from Install manual and forward 'off list'.
>
> The reason I ask is I'm in the process of fitting finger brakes and I'm
> installing a shelf inside the tunnel for the master cylinder to mount on. The
> throttle quadrant will be mounted right next to the brake master, so I want to
> make
> sure there is enough clearance so that I won't have to cut out the shelf when
> the throttle is installed later.
>
I'll send you a picture of how my madness dealt with the situation. You may
get an idea or feel relieved you haven't gone my route!
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
gholland@gemini-resourcing.com
+44 7808 402404
Gemini Resourcing Limited
Hartham Park, Corsham, Wilts. SN13 0RP - UK
+44 1249 700630
+44 8707 051315 (Fax)
Website - http://www.gemini-resourcing.com
DISCLAIMER: This message may contain privileged and confidential
information. If you think for any reason this message has been addressed in
error you must not copy or disseminate it and we would ask you to notify us
immediately by return e-mail to info@gemini-resourcing.com. Internet emails
are not necessarily secure. Gemini Resourcing Limited is registered in
England with its address at:
Hartham Park, Corsham, Wilts. SN13 0RP, England.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Eine Nachricht von Karl Heinz Topp |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen <josok@ukolo.fi>
Hi Michael,
How did you check this out? Did you contact them and ask, or did you try
to buy some "marketing" information?
You missed the point: These "free providers" generate income by selling
marketing information, including personal details, of their own
filantropists but by profit making businesses. Of course you won't
believe me, but open a new account including a small mistake in the
spelling of your name, don't forget all the details, like your age,
income class, profession and home address. Keep this new address
secret, and sit back and wait.
Jos Okhuijsen
Michael Grass wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net>
>
>Hi everybody,
>
>
>I checked this out and in my opinion there is really nothing to worry about. WEB
DE is a (cheap) German Internet provider who has an Email client including
the address book as a web based application. So, with other words, it acts like
outlook just completely web based and is therefore machine independent . This
message was automatically created by this email client and just wanted to let
the owner of the address know that this person added only this particular address
to the private address book only. The address is, under normal circumstances,
not accessible to a third party. I guess, the only think what went wrong
was: This was the address of a newsgroup. Again, I know from some of my friends
in Germany, that WEB.DE is one of the better and more secure provider. This
is also what I read on the WEB.DE website when I checked it out. German, by
the way is my native language.
>
>
>Regards
>
>
>Michael Grass builder of the Trigerar #A266 in Michigan, USA
>
>
>
>
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