---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/18/03: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:10 AM - Re: Tri-gear Trailer & Garage (G-IANI) 2. 02:23 AM - Re: Torque Tube Bronze Bushing: Tightness, Grinding & Lubrication (Ken Whiteley) 3. 02:54 AM - Re: New builder building in a single garage? (owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com) 4. 03:34 AM - e-mail address list (Nigel Charles) 5. 03:34 AM - Re: OV protection (Nigel Charles) 6. 03:34 AM - Re: New builder building in a single garage? (Nigel Charles) 7. 05:33 AM - e-mail address list (Fergus Kyle) 8. 08:12 AM - Re: e-mail address list (Dale Hetrick) 9. 08:50 AM - Re: e-mail address list (Rob Housman) 10. 10:05 AM - Re: e-mail address list (Nigel Charles) 11. 10:19 AM - Re: OV protection (Fred Fillinger) 12. 12:18 PM - Re: New Tailwheel, old engine mount??????? () 13. 02:08 PM - Re: Fitting the exhaust (James H Nelson) 14. 03:19 PM - Re: Fitting the exhaust - 912S (Paul McAllister) 15. 11:07 PM - Re: e-mail address list (William Mills) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:10:58 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tri-gear Trailer & Garage --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" Height of Tri-gear on (the old) Europa Tri-gear trailer is 78.5in. Height on its own wheels is 83in. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI Europa Club Assistant Mods Rep e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David E. Parson Subject: Europa-List: Tri-gear Trailer & Garage --> Europa-List message posted by: "David E. Parson" I'm building a home this fall and wanted to prepare a 3-car garage for building and storing a Europa tri-gear. What sorts of heights could I expect from a tri-gear on a trailer? Thanks all, David E. Parson Tower Consulting 317-596-8875 home 317-989-9987 mobile dparson@towerconsulting.biz ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:36 AM PST US From: Ken Whiteley Subject: Re: Europa-List: Torque Tube Bronze Bushing: Tightness, Grinding & Lubrication --> Europa-List message posted by: Ken Whiteley In message <200307171611.h6HGBLM31344@matronics.com>, Rob Neils writes >--> Europa-List message posted by: RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils) > >I used a water-based valve laping compound to open up the brass/bronze >bushing to allow the steel torque tube to rotate freely. > I think it is best to avoid grinding compounds as it is very difficult to completely remove them and particles can embed in the bronze and lead to premature wear. I had the same problem and I used a bearing scraper to free off the bronze bush, using engineers' blue to check progress. I only removed sufficient bronze to give free movement in the arc in which the tailplane will be required to move. I found this entirely satisfactory. Ken Whiteley ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:22 AM PST US From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: New builder building in a single garage? --> Europa-List message posted by: Hello Paul. Welcome to the gang of optimistic dreamers, knowledgeable craftsmen, learners of all possible trades and a h--- of a nice group of people! Yes - I build in a one car garage. By that I mean 6 x 3 meters, and, like another builder once stated: I'll not do it again! The first 2/3rds in the build goes fine. You just store the finished parts elsewhere (like in a friendly neighbours vacant garage-space, or in your second half of your own garagebuilding - where you normally keep your car, which now has to be kept in the open, or any other solution you can think of.). I had to borrow space in a big garage/storage building to get the wings to fuselage assembly done, but had to move out again due to start of another project. It's complicated horseing around like this, but manageable. Right now I'm close to mount the engine - and I am able to do this as long as I remove the rudder (which has to come off anyway for painting) and move the fuselage all the way to the rear of the room to get access for the engine in front. But I am now in constant search for a bigger and permanent workshop where I can have the aeroplane fully rigged for all the odd jobs required. But I guess this problem is a common one in most of the Europa community - or in many other building groups as well! Happy build, Paul! Cheers, Hans (#334) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Bunting" Subject: Europa-List: New builder building in a single garage? > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Bunting" > > Hi All, > > I am new to this list and have only just placed my order with Europa for a > starter kit here in the UK. > > I was wondering if there was any members of this list who had already built > or are building a kit in a single garage. I do hope to gain access to a > larger workshop further down the build process though this is not certain, I > will be building the initial stages at least in my single garage. > > If someone is out their and has done this I would appreciate any advice you > may have on possible layouts/setup for building the kit in a confined space. > > If there is anyone in the UK that has completed or is nearing completion of > their kit and is looking to sell some tools used during the build process I > would be grateful if you could contact me directly at > paul.bunting@developtheweb.com as I may be interested in purchasing these > second hand from you. > > Regards, > > Paul > > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:38 AM PST US From: "Nigel Charles" Subject: Europa-List: e-mail address list --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" Having had a recent problem with Windows ME I finally took the plunge and installed XP having backed up what I thought was all my essential files. Unfortunately this did not include my e-mail address list. Could anyone who regularly contacts me by e-mail send a brief reply to this message so I can re-establish a basic address list. Thank you. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:38 AM PST US From: "Nigel Charles" Subject: Re: Europa-List: OV protection --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" >However, unless the fuel pump is downstream of the OV relay, it won't pump for too long, subjected to full unregulated output from a failed regulator! This is one misfeature of OV protection as might be wired for the 914, compared to the 912 with a mech fuel pump. If there's no OV relay, the battery and other items on the bus will clamp voltage to a temporarily safe (average) voltage level, won't pop the pump CB, and allow more than enough time for one to take corrective action before harm is done to the battery. Provided one has clear panel warning of the OV condition.< The reason for an electrical pump to be connected to the regulator output is not for regulator failure but to cater for a major failure in the rest of the system. With the main fuse blown the regulator will cope quite adequately with just the load of the pump. In the case of a regulator failing to high voltage the other pump, isolated from the effects of the regulator by the OV unit, will be working just fine from battery power. If the load is too great for the pump connected to the regulator it will pop its c/b or blow its fuse. No big deal as the other pump is providing fuel pressure. This way we are catering for most significant single failures. If you want to cope with double failures I doubt whether you would be flying in a single engined aircraft anyway. Is there any form of corrective action that needs doing manually? What action are you going to take if you have an OV condition? I would suggest you would isolate the regulator from the rest of the system. Why not have the OV unit do this for you? I don't claim to be an expert in this area but I would want to be very sure of my knowledge before ignoring the advice of Bob Nuckolls. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:38 AM PST US From: "Nigel Charles" Subject: Re: Europa-List: New builder building in a single garage? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" >I was wondering if there was any members of this list who had already built or are building a kit in a single garage. I do hope to gain access to a larger workshop further down the build process though this is not certain, I will be building the initial stages at least in my single garage. If someone is out their and has done this I would appreciate any advice you may have on possible layouts/setup for building the kit in a confined space.< Although it is possible to do a lot of the build in a single garage extra space will be necessary to store parts and rigging will have to be done out of doors. If you are planning to trailer-fly buying the trailer early gives you instant storage space. I built 95% of my Europa in a single width garage but I did have the advantage it was over 30ft long. As I contracted out the filling and painting I left the wing incidence, flap setup and wing fairings until last. I was then able to borrow workspace from the contractor for 2 weeks just before filling was started. Only buy stages of the kit as you need them if you want to minimise the storage problem. I managed to get a neighbour to store the fuselage top which is a particularly bulky item. If you have a tall garage you can suspend it from the ceiling. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:46 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: e-mail address list --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Nigel, Greetings! I much enjoyed your last warning not to ignore Nuckolls' advice without better knowledge. Several seem to have done that with unhappy results. Hope this helps. I can also send a list from my address pile if that would help. Ferg Regards to you both ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel Charles" Subject: Europa-List: e-mail address list | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" | | Having had a recent problem with Windows ME I finally took the plunge and installed XP having backed up what I thought was all my essential files. Unfortunately this did not include my e-mail address list. | | Could anyone who regularly contacts me by e-mail send a brief reply to this message so I can re-establish a basic address list. | | Thank you. | | Nigel Charles | | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: e-mail address list From: Dale Hetrick --> Europa-List message posted by: Dale Hetrick Hi Nigel, In case my address was lost: gdale2@juno.com Hope you can make it to San Diego in August! Regards, Dale ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:43 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: e-mail address list --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" Here's an easier solution that will let you restore your original messages and the address book: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;313055 . Of course, this won't work if you re-formatted your hard drive when you installed Win xp. Best regards, Rob Housman Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airfarame complete Irvine, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nigel Charles Subject: Europa-List: e-mail address list --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" Having had a recent problem with Windows ME I finally took the plunge and installed XP having backed up what I thought was all my essential files. Unfortunately this did not include my e-mail address list. Could anyone who regularly contacts me by e-mail send a brief reply to this message so I can re-establish a basic address list. Thank you. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:18 AM PST US From: "Nigel Charles" Subject: Re: Europa-List: e-mail address list --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" Hi Ferg Thanks for the reply. The one good thing about this e-mail cock up is that it has made me have a good clear out. If I get stuck for a Europa owner address I will come to you. Regards Nigel ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:59 AM PST US From: Fred Fillinger Subject: Re: Europa-List: OV protection --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger Nigel Charles wrote: > > The reason for an electrical pump to be connected to the regulator output is > not for regulator failure but to cater for a major failure in the rest of > the system. With the main fuse blown the regulator will cope quite > adequately with just the load of the pump. In the case of a regulator > failing to high voltage the other pump, isolated from the effects of the > regulator by the OV unit, will be working just fine from battery power. > If the load is too great for the pump connected to the regulator it will pop > its c/b or blow its fuse. No big deal as the other pump is providing fuel > pressure. That's generally correct, but we may disagree on potential consequences. We can't rely on the pump's CB to trip (a fast-acting fuse is inappropriate for an inductive device). If a failed regulator were to supply 7 amps to the pump after the OV trips, it can take up to one hour to trip the recommended 5A breaker. If we're lucky the pump will fail, or it may run very hot with fuel inside plus excess pressure to flood the carbs. A bad scenario is right after takeoff with both pumps on. The only indication of a very serious problem may be a panel indication that the OV has tripped, but not whether one pump is under stress. Alternatively without an OV device doing us such a favor, the battery will clamp the volts to that pump, with similar panel indication of a problem, but not potential engine stoppage at the worst possible time. It's easy to add a circuit to prevent excess volts to the pump while keeping it safely running off a runaway regulator, but I side with Jos Okhuijsen's post questioning the net safety benefit of add-ons like this - one just to prevent bad results of the other. Another observation is a Kitplanes article by Jim Weir proposing OV protection applied only to a bus with avionics and selected instruments. This leaves the 914 wiring as specified by Rotax, so we need not debate who knows more than they do. Regards, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:32 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Europa-List: New Tailwheel, old engine mount??????? --> Europa-List message posted by: My Europa XS/Mono with a Jabiru 3300 with the fuselage level has 42.25 inches from the ground to the center of the prop flange. A 64" diameter prop then has 10.25 " of clearance with the tire inflated and about 6" of clearance with the tire flat. The Jabiru engine must have a higher thrust line giving a bit greater prop clearance for a greater margin of safety. Tom Friedland A 079 N96V -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Graham Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Tailwheel, old engine mount??????? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" The JAR regs were defined to protect the aircraft (and pilot) under worst-case conditions. To check this properly on a Monowheel Europa, it will be necessary to assemble the landing gear without the "rubber block", such that the weight of the aircraft is borne by the nylon bump-stop. This represents the maximum deflection possible before structural damage occurs. The wheel should be replaced minus tyre and tube (worst-case run-flat condition) and the aircraft gently lowered onto its rims. With the tail lifted so that the aircraft is horizontal, the prop tip clearance should be measured. If, under these conditions, there is any tip clearance at all - it has passed the test and conforms to the JARs. This might seem like an unnecessarily long procedure, but will pale into insignificance when compared to the time and money required to remove the engine for shock-load testing and replace a broken blade. Nigel (Graham) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel Charles" I measured the ground clearance on my Classic with 64" blades and the same on an XS. They came out at 11" and 12" respectively. There is likely to be slight variation between individual aircraft but this indicates that either conforms with JAR's. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fitting the exhaust From: James H Nelson --> Europa-List message posted by: James H Nelson Paul, It is usually set up for the starboard front. My German built exhaust had it in that position.. Try it around and you will find it is usually for the front pipes only. Jim Nelson N15JN ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:01 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fitting the exhaust - 912S --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi Jim, Thanks for your note. I got a hold of a more recent version of the manual which helped me identify the correct orientation for the pipes, however, it still won't fit. The top of the silencer presses hard up against the water hose which is not a good thing. It looks like the back 2 pipes need to be about 12~15 mm longer. I've sent some photos off to Europa and they are thinking about it. If I have installed it incorrectly I certainly cannot spot my error. Cheers, Paul ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:52 PM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: e-mail address list --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Hi Nigel, Thanks very much for last Tues. I have bought an appropriate resistor and will sort the crowbar out at the next opportunity. I found my 24 pin plug connection list for one of two that I installed to remove the panel and both connections to the "no charge" LED are included. I therefore should be able to complete the circuit without removing the panel. I probably coiled the missing wire behind the fire wall inspection hatch. One more problem - the LED has + & - connections which I can identify from the plug pins, but it is not obvious to me which way round it should be connected at the rectifier. i.e. + or - to terminal "L". Can you help me with that? Best wishes, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel Charles" Subject: Europa-List: e-mail address list > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" > > Having had a recent problem with Windows ME I finally took the plunge and installed XP having backed up what I thought was all my essential files. Unfortunately this did not include my e-mail address list. > > Could anyone who regularly contacts me by e-mail send a brief reply to this message so I can re-establish a basic address list. > > Thank you. > > Nigel Charles > >