Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:57 AM - Re: Europa tire tracks on the garage floor. (Rob Huntington)
2. 07:48 AM - Setting wing incidence (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
3. 08:16 AM - Re: Setting wing incidence (Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg)
4. 08:46 AM - Re: Setting wing incidence (Rob Housman)
5. 09:01 AM - Re: Re: Setting wing incidence (Andy Draper)
6. 01:01 PM - Re: 912 Engine Problem - Request for help (Ami McFadyean)
7. 02:03 PM - Re: 912 Engine Problem - Request for help (Terry Seaver)
8. 03:32 PM - Re: Setting wing incidence (Jeremy Davey)
9. 04:20 PM - Re: Setting wing incidence (Jim Brown)
10. 06:49 PM - Re: 912 Engine Problem - Request for help (Cliff Shaw)
11. 10:48 PM - Re: 912 Engine Problem - Request for help (William Mills)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Europa tire tracks on the garage floor. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rob Huntington <robertodue2002@yahoo.com>
Hi Steve;
You are welcome to come look at the cowling/exhaust clearance on Paul Boulet's
Europa to determine the exhaust situation.
Regards,
Rob Huntington
Phoenix Composites
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Setting wing incidence |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Greetings all,
I'm about to tackle setting my wing incidence. The manual says to use the
flap template and a digital level. Got that, but it also says the tollerance is
.05 degrees. This seems a bit tough to get considering the method employed. My
template is accurate enough to set the flaps in place, but I don't think I can
achieve the accuracy needed with the given method.
With R/C stuff we use an incidence level that clamps to the LE and TE level
to the cordline. This seems much more effective, but I don't have one big
enough to make it work.
Since it's Oskosh week all the Europa folks are away. Due to a pregnant Lab
who is set to drop puppies any day now I won't be going to Oshkosh this year.
Are there any tricks that those who have come before me can offer?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Setting wing incidence |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber@terra.com.br>
You are quite right, this is the only job the digital level is just not
good enough for, as the leading and trailing edges are so far apart, you
can use a clear water filled tube with a couple of drops of detergent or
the like to reduce surface tension. Have one person hold the tube to the
leading edge and take the other end to the trailing edge, or tape them
up, then make a mark to see it quickly when measuring.
This system can also be used to set the aircraft level and to confirm
that the window sill is ok for reference, it will pick up the tiniest
difference in levels.
Alex Kaarsberg,
Kit 529, waiting for parts...
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
>Greetings all,
>
>I'm about to tackle setting my wing incidence. The manual says to use the
>flap template and a digital level. Got that, but it also says the tollerance is
>.05 degrees. This seems a bit tough to get considering the method employed. My
>template is accurate enough to set the flaps in place, but I don't think I can
>achieve the accuracy needed with the given method.
>
>With R/C stuff we use an incidence level that clamps to the LE and TE level
>to the cordline. This seems much more effective, but I don't have one big
>enough to make it work.
>
> Since it's Oskosh week all the Europa folks are away. Due to a pregnant Lab
>who is set to drop puppies any day now I won't be going to Oshkosh this year.
>Are there any tricks that those who have come before me can offer?
>
>Regards,
>
>John Lawton
>Dunlap, TN
>A-245
>
>
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Setting wing incidence |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Someone at the factory failed trigonometry. If you use the inch unit
measurements in the Tri-Gear Manual on page 27-2, 30 July 1999, Issue 2
(.0872 inch over 50 inch chord) and do the trig correctly you will find that
the tolerance is actually 0.1 degrees (from arctan 0.0872/50 = 0.09992).
Note also that the manual tells you to drill through the fuselage sides to
accommodate the forward lift pins. Not being inclined to allow water to
flow into the cockpit I declined to do this and found that there is no need
to do it either, although it is certainly possible that others may have had
to do so to provide clearance.
Worse yet, had I followed the earlier instructions about bonding the aft
lift pins into the wing root I would have been unable to complete this step
because I found that the pip pin holes in the lift pins would have failed to
align with the holes in the W26 root pin sockets (the pins in my kit were
too long).
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Greetings all,
I'm about to tackle setting my wing incidence. The manual says to use the
flap template and a digital level. Got that, but it also says the tollerance
is
.05 degrees. This seems a bit tough to get considering the method employed.
My
template is accurate enough to set the flaps in place, but I don't think I
can
achieve the accuracy needed with the given method.
With R/C stuff we use an incidence level that clamps to the LE and TE level
to the cordline. This seems much more effective, but I don't have one big
enough to make it work.
Since it's Oskosh week all the Europa folks are away. Due to a pregnant Lab
who is set to drop puppies any day now I won't be going to Oshkosh this
year.
Are there any tricks that those who have come before me can offer?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Setting wing incidence |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
You're right. The manual was corrected to read 1.1mm (0.044") many moons ago.
Regards
A
>>> "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com> 07/28/03 04:45pm >>>
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Someone at the factory failed trigonometry. If you use the inch unit
measurements in the Tri-Gear Manual on page 27-2, 30 July 1999, Issue 2
(.0872 inch over 50 inch chord) and do the trig correctly you will find that
the tolerance is actually 0.1 degrees (from arctan 0.0872/50 = 0.09992).
Note also that the manual tells you to drill through the fuselage sides to
accommodate the forward lift pins. Not being inclined to allow water to
flow into the cockpit I declined to do this and found that there is no need
to do it either, although it is certainly possible that others may have had
to do so to provide clearance.
Worse yet, had I followed the earlier instructions about bonding the aft
lift pins into the wing root I would have been unable to complete this step
because I found that the pip pin holes in the lift pins would have failed to
align with the holes in the W26 root pin sockets (the pins in my kit were
too long).
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Greetings all,
I'm about to tackle setting my wing incidence. The manual says to use the
flap template and a digital level. Got that, but it also says the tollerance
is
.05 degrees. This seems a bit tough to get considering the method employed.
My
template is accurate enough to set the flaps in place, but I don't think I
can
achieve the accuracy needed with the given method.
With R/C stuff we use an incidence level that clamps to the LE and TE level
to the cordline. This seems much more effective, but I don't have one big
enough to make it work.
Since it's Oskosh week all the Europa folks are away. Due to a pregnant Lab
who is set to drop puppies any day now I won't be going to Oshkosh this
year.
Are there any tricks that those who have come before me can offer?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 912 Engine Problem - Request for help |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
This largely is true of the Rotax 2-strokes too; i.e. it is the INSTALLATION
that causes failures (and in their case lack of proper maintenance too).
It's not normally the engine per se that is the root cause of the failure.
There are various installation check lists available (not least in the
official installation manual itself) that can aid in getting it right. Plus
common sense.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Fillinger" <fillinger@ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: 912 Engine Problem - Request for help
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger
<fillinger@ameritech.net>
>
> > I used to have an old Cherokee with an old Lycomming 320, 1400 hrs
> > Never any problem. I felt very safe flying 30 years old plane.
> >
> > Question:
> > Is Rotax a safe Engine? Is it good for 1200-1400 hrs?
> >
> > I hope so.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Stephan Cassel
>
> A simple check of accident database for the U.S. (NTSB) shows 13
> engine failures, 1998-2002. That's out of likely over a thousand in
> service in homebuilts and on the Diamond Katana.
>
> One involved builder error in oil line plumbing; one a blocked fuel
> filter. One involved disconnection of a throttle cable, another a
> binding throttle cable during a go-around. One case not counted here
> was a throttle cable too stiff, resulting in down elevator applied
> during landing while retarding throttle, a contributing factor to pilot
> error. But reference here the cable friction needed due to stiff return
> springs.
>
> Nine are undetermined as to cause. One involved a 912 run 700 hours
> past 1200 TBO, the only Katana 912 failure in the data, with notably
> 3,093 airframe hours. Two involved suspected fuel delivery problems;
> one possible 912 carb icing; one possible electric prop runaway on a
> 914. In latter case, the "snitch" software in the TCU's memory is
> revealing but inconclusive. Two undetermined because of impact damage
> or fire, destroying fuel system plumbing, a possible cause by other
> inferences. Two purely undetermined.
>
> In no case were there any reduction drive, ignition, or internal engine
> failures. This is significant because, for one popular brand of auto
> engine conversion, these causes accounted for 50% of the failures in
> this period, also about a dozen total but likely a smaller installed base.
>
> IOW, the Rotax seems a very reliable engine if stuff is fabricated or
> installed properly, particularly fuel, oil, and throttle.
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 912 Engine Problem - Request for help |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
Hi William,
I know this has been beaten to death already, but I feel one more comment
is in order.
At high throttle settings (open throttle) a difference in the carb sync (cable
adjustment) will hardly be noticed, as small changes in throttle setting have
very minor effect in power.
At idle, a) the throttle position is set by idle stops, irrespective of the cable
position, so an out of sync condition (cables not adjusted for identical carb
throttle position) would not be very noticeable. Also, b) the carb balance
tube keeps the two sides fairly well synched up to over 2000 rpm, even if the
cable sync is not particularly good.
So, if the cables are out of sync, you will notice it most in the mid-range,
not at idle or high throttle settings.
regards,
Terry Seaver
William Mills wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
>
> Hi All,
> Has anyone experienced a similar problem and can anyone help with suggestions
please?
> On recent flights I have experienced some irregular misfiring when descending
with about quarter throttle and also the occasional hiccup in cruise, but on
my last flight the engine was running so roughly in the cruise I aborted the flight
and nursed it back home.
> I carried out some tests on the way back. It ran very smoothly on full throttle,
it ran very smoothly on closed throttle, but in between it ran very roughly.
I checked the ignition when running roughly, but there was no change on either
mag. I tried coarsening and fining the prop to see if it was rpm related,
but it wasn't. I changed to reserve tank, but no change. The carbs are well
balanced at tickover and the engine runs smoothly right down to 1500 rpm.
The fuel filters are clean. I can only assume that the problem is related to
carburation, but find it difficult to believe that one can have a partial blockage,
or too much fuel with a needle jet in its mid range only. As tickover is
smooth and roughness stops in flight when descending with closed throttle, I
can only assume that the slow running mixture adjustment and associated jet are
OK. Are there any other jets apart from the main needle and slow running jet
to consider? Although I never have a problem with !
> starting, can a problem with the starting carb affect the mid range running only?
Can a faulty float valve affect mid range only? My engine has done about
480 hrs, should I be considering renewing any of the carb parts as a precaution
/ planned maintenance etc? I have had a brief chat with Conrad, but he was
unable to put his finger on the problem, so presumably my symptoms are unusual.
He suggested I should check the needles for wear and the carb rubber mounts
/ sleeves for splits, which I will.
> Many thanks for any help,
> Regards,
> William
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Setting wing incidence |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey@btinternet.com>
John,
I suggest you call Andy at the Factory. This year Andy did Sun 'n' Fun and
Neville is doing Oshkosh, which is a huge help to those of us building
through the summer.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Greetings all,
I'm about to tackle setting my wing incidence. The manual says to use the
flap template and a digital level. Got that, but it also says the tollerance
is
.05 degrees. This seems a bit tough to get considering the method employed.
My
template is accurate enough to set the flaps in place, but I don't think I
can
achieve the accuracy needed with the given method.
With R/C stuff we use an incidence level that clamps to the LE and TE level
to the cordline. This seems much more effective, but I don't have one big
enough to make it work.
Since it's Oskosh week all the Europa folks are away. Due to a pregnant Lab
who is set to drop puppies any day now I won't be going to Oshkosh this
year.
Are there any tricks that those who have come before me can offer?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Setting wing incidence |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
Hi John;
Use the digital level, and the template, and set one wing as close as possible.
The critical part is to get the other wing to match the first side's incidence.
If
the incidence is different on the two wings, then when you start flying you may
have a "heavy wing" depending on how great the difference is.
The installation of a aileron trim tab in the build process will allow you to make
small adjustments in flight to compensate for the "heavy wing or additional
passenger".
Jim Brown
N398JB
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
> Greetings all,
>
> I'm about to tackle setting my wing incidence. The manual says to use the
> flap template and a digital level. Got that, but it also says the tollerance
is
> .05 degrees. This seems a bit tough to get considering the method employed. My
> template is accurate enough to set the flaps in place, but I don't think I can
> achieve the accuracy needed with the given method.
>
> With R/C stuff we use an incidence level that clamps to the LE and TE level
> to the cordline. This seems much more effective, but I don't have one big
> enough to make it work.
>
> Since it's Oskosh week all the Europa folks are away. Due to a pregnant Lab
> who is set to drop puppies any day now I won't be going to Oshkosh this year.
> Are there any tricks that those who have come before me can offer?
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 912 Engine Problem - Request for help |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
All
I just read Terry's reply to this and wanted to make an observation. I am
haven't concerns in the carb balance thing at this time.
When the throttles are closed, the stop screws and the cables should both
come to rest at the same spot. Please do not allow the carb stops to stop
the cables. This will cause the cable to get out of adjustments. (personal
knowledge) All other facts and opinions of Terry's I agree with hole
heartedly.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote" FLYING
> At idle, a) the throttle position is set by idle stops, irrespective of
the cable position, so an out of sync condition (cables not adjusted for
identical carb throttle position) would not be very noticeable. Also, b) the
carb balance tube keeps the two sides fairly well synched up to over 2000
rpm, even if the cable sync is not particularly good.
> So, if the cables are out of sync, you will notice it most in the
mid-range, not at idle or high throttle settings.
>
> regards,
> Terry Seaver
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 912 Engine Problem - Request for help |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Hi Terry,
Thanks for your suggestions. The actual symptom was misfiring and not the
vibration due to out of balance carbs. I use the two vacuum gauge method
for balancing and find it works extremely well.
Best wishes,
William
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Seaver" <terrys@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: 912 Engine Problem - Request for help
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
>
> Hi William,
>
> I know this has been beaten to death already, but I feel one more
comment is in order.
> At high throttle settings (open throttle) a difference in the carb sync
(cable adjustment) will hardly be noticed, as small changes in throttle
setting have very minor effect in power.
> At idle, a) the throttle position is set by idle stops, irrespective of
the cable position, so an out of sync condition (cables not adjusted for
identical carb throttle position) would not be very noticeable. Also, b) the
carb balance tube keeps the two sides fairly well synched up to over 2000
rpm, even if the cable sync is not particularly good.
> So, if the cables are out of sync, you will notice it most in the
mid-range, not at idle or high throttle settings.
>
> regards,
> Terry Seaver
>
> William Mills wrote:
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
<combined.merchants@virgin.net>
> >
> > Hi All,
> > Has anyone experienced a similar problem and can anyone help with
suggestions please?
> > On recent flights I have experienced some irregular misfiring when
descending with about quarter throttle and also the occasional hiccup in
cruise, but on my last flight the engine was running so roughly in the
cruise I aborted the flight and nursed it back home.
> > I carried out some tests on the way back. It ran very smoothly on full
throttle, it ran very smoothly on closed throttle, but in between it ran
very roughly. I checked the ignition when running roughly, but there was no
change on either mag. I tried coarsening and fining the prop to see if it
was rpm related, but it wasn't. I changed to reserve tank, but no change.
The carbs are well balanced at tickover and the engine runs smoothly right
down to 1500 rpm. The fuel filters are clean. I can only assume that the
problem is related to carburation, but find it difficult to believe that one
can have a partial blockage, or too much fuel with a needle jet in its mid
range only. As tickover is smooth and roughness stops in flight when
descending with closed throttle, I can only assume that the slow running
mixture adjustment and associated jet are OK. Are there any other jets
apart from the main needle and slow running jet to consider? Although I
never have a problem wit!
> h !
> > starting, can a problem with the starting carb affect the mid range
running only? Can a faulty float valve affect mid range only? My engine
has done about 480 hrs, should I be considering renewing any of the carb
parts as a precaution / planned maintenance etc? I have had a brief chat
with Conrad, but he was unable to put his finger on the problem, so
presumably my symptoms are unusual. He suggested I should check the needles
for wear and the carb rubber mounts / sleeves for splits, which I will.
> > Many thanks for any help,
> > Regards,
> > William
> >
>
>
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