Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:08 AM - Rotisserie Fitting (John Cliff)
2. 09:19 AM - door latch covers (Kevin Klinefelter)
3. 09:34 AM - What type of epoxy/mix? (Ronald J. Parigoris)
4. 11:11 AM - Re: What type of epoxy/mix? (Rob Housman)
5. 11:51 AM - Re: What type of epoxy/mix? (Kevin Klinefelter)
6. 02:14 PM - flap position (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
7. 03:50 PM - Fitting flaps (Alan Stills)
8. 05:47 PM - Re: door latch covers (James Nelson)
9. 06:14 PM - Re: door latch covers (Jeff Roberts)
10. 07:53 PM - Re: Engine Cowling NACA Inlet (Fergus Kyle)
11. 08:02 PM - Fitting the cowls (Paul McAllister)
12. 11:51 PM - Any builders in the Melbourne area? (Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Rotisserie Fitting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff" <mx@crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
For UK readers :-
Available free to a good home :-
A steel support for the front of the fuselage which, in conjunction with a rear
support, allows the fuselage to be rotated about its long axis, to improve the
ergonomics of working on it. A picture of it in use can be seen at
http://www.crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk/Techniques/Dollies.htm (last two
pictures)
It mounts to the landing gear frame, using the bosses to which the engine mount
will later be bolted. It provides for being locked at (approx) level and 45 and
90 degrees each way.
It was made by Mike Clews, who supported the rear fuselage by suspending it from
the garage roof. More recently I have been using it and the rear support is a
piece of 19mm chipboard with a channel cut down into the top edge, lined with
split foam pipe insulation and held in a Workmate.
Although it was made for use in initial build, Mike has just used it while
effecting a repair on a complete aircraft and reports that there was no problem
with this.
It is not particularly light and in its present form is a bit unwieldy for
transport.
It is presently lying in Maidenhead, Berks., with Mike Clews, 01628 631074
Or feel free to phone me, John Cliff, 01344 457323 for more details.
John Cliff
#0259
Message 2
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| Subject: | door latch covers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
Hi All, I have a question regarding the sequence of painting the doors,
outside handles, and fitting the latch covers. I suppose the handles need to
be painted before the latch covers are bonded in place. Do the covers need
to be bonded in place or are some folks using screws and nutplates? Seems
like you might want to get in there in the future?
Thanks Kevin
Message 3
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| Subject: | What type of epoxy/mix? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Finally getting going on A-265 Monowheel
Have a few epoxy questions:
What type of epoxy is needed to bond hinges on Rudder and Anti-servo tabs?
Manual calls for Epoxy and Flox for Rudder, and Rapid Epoxy and Flox for
Anti-servo tabs. Is the manual correct?
What sort of fill is used to fill in the joggle on the back of the rudder? Is
Dry Micro OK?
The manual shows filling in a similar joggle on the anti-servo tabs with Dry
Micro, but it gets a strip on top of it.
Thanks
Ron Parigoris
Message 4
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| Subject: | What type of epoxy/mix? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Review the first chapter in the builders manual for these definitions, but
in general when the manual calls for flox or micro (wet, dry, or slurry) or
expancell the presumption is that you will mix these materials with the
same epoxy used to wet the glass cloth (the epoxy that came with my kit was
from Aeropoxy - yours may be different). The fast cure (five minute) epoxy
is not an acceptable substitute for most applications, so unless
specifically called out, don't use the five minute epoxy for anything other
than temporarily holding things together. A third epoxy system was also
supplied, either called Redux or Araldite, and when this is required the
manual will be quite specific. It is used as a structural adhesive, for
such things as joining the top and bottom fuselage moldings and the cockpit
module.
Dry micro is the preferred filler for those glassed foam core joggle areas
that need to be "leveled" to match the surrounding areas, such as at the aft
edge of the rudder, ailerons, flaps, etc. .
Because the whole point of using micro or flox is to reduce the density of
the mix and thus reduce the weight, dry is better than wet. The trick is to
get the mix as dry as possible but still allow the stuff to be spread
easily, something that comes with experience.
I can not find any reference in my manual to using rapid epoxy and flox for
the anti-servo tabs. In general the manual IS correct and any errors that I
have found are not related to which epoxy to use.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald J.
Parigoris
Subject: Europa-List: What type of epoxy/mix?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Finally getting going on A-265 Monowheel
Have a few epoxy questions:
What type of epoxy is needed to bond hinges on Rudder and Anti-servo tabs?
Manual calls for Epoxy and Flox for Rudder, and Rapid Epoxy and Flox for
Anti-servo tabs. Is the manual correct?
What sort of fill is used to fill in the joggle on the back of the rudder?
Is
Dry Micro OK?
The manual shows filling in a similar joggle on the anti-servo tabs with Dry
Micro, but it gets a strip on top of it.
Thanks
Ron Parigoris
Message 5
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| Subject: | What type of epoxy/mix? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
My manual reads like Ron's. Rapid, or 5-Min epoxy works well for hinges.
Less chance of pure epoxy squeezing out into your hinge. I called and asked
Europa when I was doing these and rapid was recommended.
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What type of epoxy/mix?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Review the first chapter in the builders manual for these definitions, but
in general when the manual calls for flox or micro (wet, dry, or slurry) or
expancell the presumption is that you will mix these materials with the
same epoxy used to wet the glass cloth (the epoxy that came with my kit was
from Aeropoxy - yours may be different). The fast cure (five minute) epoxy
is not an acceptable substitute for most applications, so unless
specifically called out, don't use the five minute epoxy for anything other
than temporarily holding things together. A third epoxy system was also
supplied, either called Redux or Araldite, and when this is required the
manual will be quite specific. It is used as a structural adhesive, for
such things as joining the top and bottom fuselage moldings and the cockpit
module.
Dry micro is the preferred filler for those glassed foam core joggle areas
that need to be "leveled" to match the surrounding areas, such as at the aft
edge of the rudder, ailerons, flaps, etc. .
Because the whole point of using micro or flox is to reduce the density of
the mix and thus reduce the weight, dry is better than wet. The trick is to
get the mix as dry as possible but still allow the stuff to be spread
easily, something that comes with experience.
I can not find any reference in my manual to using rapid epoxy and flox for
the anti-servo tabs. In general the manual IS correct and any errors that I
have found are not related to which epoxy to use.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald J.
Parigoris
Subject: Europa-List: What type of epoxy/mix?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Finally getting going on A-265 Monowheel
Have a few epoxy questions:
What type of epoxy is needed to bond hinges on Rudder and Anti-servo tabs?
Manual calls for Epoxy and Flox for Rudder, and Rapid Epoxy and Flox for
Anti-servo tabs. Is the manual correct?
What sort of fill is used to fill in the joggle on the back of the rudder?
Is
Dry Micro OK?
The manual shows filling in a similar joggle on the anti-servo tabs with Dry
Micro, but it gets a strip on top of it.
Thanks
Ron Parigoris
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil@clara.net>
I'm trying to set up the flap for drilling the hinge attachment
brackets (W18 & W19/20/21). I had to remove about 10mm of the flap
tip closeout to move the flap outboard & get it well-aligned with the
wing fixtures, and the TE needed a small taper removed to get the
required 3mm clearance between flap LE & vertical face of the wing
moulding. So far so good; but although things look generally
respectable, the lower surface of the flap (the one that's uppermost
at present, with the wing set upside-down on the template) appears
noticeably proud of the wing lower surface at the tip. It looks fine
at the root.
Question - do I need to relieve the wing moulding a few mm to get it
more flush? Obviously I can't remove much there without compromising
the strength of the corner (where the vertical part of the moulding
that separates the flap from the aileron linkage connects to the
curved part shaped like the flap LE).
Factory closed since noon today - anyone had this query already and
got a good answer from Neville or Andy?
regards
Rowland
--
| PFA #16532 e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
| 580 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
Roland,
Nevelle sent me the following instructions for fitting and closing your wings and
flaps. Hope it helps
Al Stills
A095
Hi Alan,
Sorry for the delay in replying, we have had a major glitch here with our computer
system, nothing was coming, although a test message I sent from home appeared
to have made it ( I didn't get a non delivered note on my home computer).
Anyway, we are up and running again!
I can't remember how much detail on closing the wings I gave you , so here is my
latest procedeure.
Trim the aileron closeout flange to be 1/2'' wide (the part that bonds to the top
skin).
Trim the flap closeout flange to 1/2''.
Cut the bond at the rear of the rib on the rib at half aileron span to let the
closeout be free, also do the same on the outer flange of the outrigger rib.
The vertical web at the inboard end of the aileron should be cut out to leave
a 1/4'' rim.
Cut the ''roof'' off of the aileron mass balance boxes, and bond them onto the
lower skin, centred on the balance arms, as per manual.
Cleco the top skin on, and scribe a line on the underside, useing the closeout
flanges as a guide, and cut off the exess, so the upper panel matches the closeouts.
Cover the leading edge of the flap and aileron with 3 or 4mm kitchen floor linolium
or similar, and rig the flaps fully up, and the aileron in neutral.
Glue the top skin on, with steel box section over the spar flange joint, and on
top of the flap and aileron joints, with enough weight to gently squeeze the
Redux out.Put a generous amount of Redux on the ribs, and make a fillet along
the closeout joints to enlarge the glue line to about 3/4'', the Redux should
be thickened with cotton flox to the ''just doesn't run'' state.
When fully cured (leave for three days), remove the ailerons and flaps, and scuff
sand the inside of the mass balance boxes, and the underside of the upper panel,
and do a 3 ply Bid lay up from the box onto the skin.
When you remove the lino' you will have a uniform gap.Sand the aileron closeout/skin
edge at an angle, to match the required up deflection of the aileron.
This works every time, I did the last one this week.
Hope this will help, phone me on 1751 433475 if you need to talk this through,
sorry again about the delay.
Cheers,
Nev.
>>> "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net> 04/26/03 11:49pm >>>
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
Nevelle.
Appreciate the advice, however the closeout at the root was approximately
45MM while my aileron's are both 60 MM finished. The outboard end varied on
both the wings. I've quiried the factory as 15MM difference is a little much
for a factory fastbuild. Thanks
Al Stills
A095
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: door latch covers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Hi Kevin,
I am using rivets to secure the covers. You need to think about
anything that moves and wears, it will need to have maintenance pulled on
it sometime in the future. So, providing access is very important. This
goes for anything on the airframe. It was mentioned a while back that
you might need to have something to protect the side of the fuselage from
the door shoot bolts from digging in to the airframe on accidental
closures or extensions. I have gotten a few chips on my door. A small
piece of aluminum bonded at right angles to the shoot bolts where the
bolts enter the airframe will protect the paint. I need to do it but
its a bit too late for the initial dings. The pilot door is used a
hundred to one with the pax door so all the wear is there.
Jim Nelson
N15JN (52 hours+)
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:24:57 -0700 "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
writes:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter"
> <kevann@gte.net>
>
> Hi All, I have a question regarding the sequence of painting the
> doors,
> outside handles, and fitting the latch covers. I suppose the handles
> need to
> be painted before the latch covers are bonded in place. Do the
> covers need
> to be bonded in place or are some folks using screws and nutplates?
> Seems
> like you might want to get in there in the future?
>
> Thanks Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: door latch covers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
on 8/8/03 11:24 AM, Kevin Klinefelter at kevann@gte.net wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
>
> Hi All, I have a question regarding the sequence of painting the doors,
> outside handles, and fitting the latch covers. I suppose the handles need to
> be painted before the latch covers are bonded in place. Do the covers need
> to be bonded in place or are some folks using screws and nutplates? Seems
> like you might want to get in there in the future?
>
> Thanks Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>
Kevin,
I am bonding the plates in place but cutting a hole where the door handle
bolt head is located. I used a nut plat in the outside handle before bonding
wood on and figure if i need in there for anyother reason I will just cut it
and do it again. The hole will alow me to take the outside handle off or to
squirt in some lubrication. Maby I will just put in a removable plug to
cover it. Keep asking questions and don't be afraid to use Nevile.
Jeff
Tri A258
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Cowling NACA Inlet |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Gerry,
If the idea is to feed 2"diam. SCAT, I have the correct size
drawing for the NACA vent. It ends in a 1"x3" oblong exit which can be
converted to 2" diam. circle. It's still on the club page I think, or
Crixbinthing with John Cliff.
Ferg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerry Holland" <gnholland@onetel.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Engine Cowling NACA Inlet
| --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
|
| Hi!
|
| Any chance someone has a digital photo and some rough dimensions for the
Top
| Cowling NACA Vent that feeds the Plenum Chamber. I'm using non XS Cowlings
| for my Rotax and dont have the 'scribed' shape to work with.
|
| Thanks
|
| Gerry
|
| Gerry Holland
| Europa 384
| G-FIZY
| +44 7808 402404
| gnholland@onetel.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
Message 11
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| Subject: | Fitting the cowls |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
I am tinkering around fitting the cowls at the moment at its turning out that I
don't have to trim anything off the back edges. In actual fact on the bottom
cowl it seems to be 3 mm or so too short. I really would have expected to need
to trim the cowls to length and now I am starting to wonder if I have them
too far forward. Has any one else had the same experience.
Paul XS 363
http://europa363.versadev.com/
Message 12
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| Subject: | Any builders in the Melbourne area? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber@terra.com.br>
As I am in Melbourne on business until the end of August, I would like
to see if there are any Europa builders in the area who would welcome a
visit from a fellow builder?
Regards,
Alex, kit 529
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