Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:09 AM - mono vs. trigear (Morten Lund karlsen)
2. 11:02 AM - Re: mono vs. trigear (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
3. 11:57 AM - Re: mono vs. trigear (KARL HEINDL)
4. 01:04 PM - Tailplane Pitch (Alan Stills)
5. 02:10 PM - All white now! (Graham Singleton)
6. 06:56 PM - Re: mono vs. trigear (Joseph J. Like)
7. 11:06 PM - Attention Steve Dunsmuir (Tony Renshaw)
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | mono vs. trigear |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Morten Lund karlsen" <mortenlund@tiscali.no>
Hi all you Europa builders!
Really could need some advice frome you! I am takeing flightlessons for my
PPL (cessna 172). This is noe of my dreams comming true! I also have one
other dream, to build my own Europa...! I just can't deside which one to
build. The mono, or the tri.. I understand that the mono can bee a real
chalenge, particulary to unexperienced pilots. But I like the the mono looks
so much better than the tri! Any one out there who can help me make up my
mind? It canges from day to day.. I really don't want to build an aircraft
which I can't handle...
Regards!
Morten Lund Karlsen
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: mono vs. trigear |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
This is a question that many of the newer Europa builders have had to deal
with since the Trigear came along a little while after the Europa was on the
homebuilder market. I have had that same question nag at me all through my build
until I reached this point. I will order the main and nose gear from Europa
soon.
My points that I had to deal with were these:
1) The mono was designed with the European community in mind. The expense of
landing at a "real" airport meant that many people and clubs got together with
local farmers to use their fields at certain times. What is your situation on
airports? When was the last time you landed at anything other than an
airport? Remember, even airports with grass landing strips are usually hard packed
and smooth enough for most trikes.
2) Once you get your PPL in a 172 (like I did), you will have to continue
your training in order to become tailwheel certified. If you do I would suggest
that you also inquire about "Unusual Attitude Recovery" training. After that
course you will never worry about a spin again.
3) Even after your tailwheel training, you will need to trained on the Europa
handling. Once in the air, it flies like a dream. But on the ground it can be
a handful to those that doe not understand it's needs.
4) If there will ever come a time that you sell your precious flying machine,
you might have more of a Customer base with the Trigear.
I hope this starts your thinking process.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Trigear
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: mono vs. trigear |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Hi Morten,
You should never make an important decision based on looks. If I wanted to
be really critical then
I would say that the Europa from underneath looks like a flying bathtub and
the monowheel
looks like a grasshopper.
But that isn't the reason for choosing the trigear. You weigh up all the
pros and cons first. The
only big advantage (apart from slightly cheaper) is its ability to land on
rough terrain, i.e. a cornfield
or on water. I have no intention of landing on either.
Monowheel disadvantages:
Very mechanical and more difficult to install and maintain.
Dirt collects in the wheelwell and has to be cleaned out.
Requires special training for handling takeoff/landing.
Large turn radius when taxiing.
Check with your insurance company if they have any statistics regarding
'incidents' with
the
monowheel.
Monowheel advantages:
Better able to land on rough strips and much better in emergencies.
Much simpler trailer.
Cheaper
Trigear disadvantages:
More expensive.
Apparently slight loss in performance, but opinions here differ.
Loss of baggage space, but you gain the space of the tunnel, which I
utilized for baggage
and air-to-ground photography with the addition of a floor window.
Is heavier.
Trailer design more involved.
Trigear advantages:
Easy to install. Can be done at an early stage and it can then be used as
the main support and for
moving the fuselage around the workshop.
Maintenance virtually nil.
Landings/takeoffs are a doddle. I think that even rough fields are not a
problem if you treat them
like soft fields, i.e. land slow with the nose a little higher than normal.
Tighter turn radius on the ground.
Those are the main points. There are many others. Two more points to
consider:
1) A number of mono builders have converted or are converting to trigear, I
have not heard of
one case going the other way.
2) If I were in your position I would take a close look at Bob Berube's
solution for a taildragger.
I my opinion that is the way to go, because it combines the best of both
worlds, is easy to
install, takes away no baggage space, and it looks good.
Hope that helps, Karl
>From: "Morten Lund karlsen" <mortenlund@tiscali.no>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: mono vs. trigear
>Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 19:13:31 +0200
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Morten Lund karlsen"
><mortenlund@tiscali.no>
>
>Hi all you Europa builders!
>
>Really could need some advice frome you! I am takeing flightlessons for my
>PPL (cessna 172). This is noe of my dreams comming true! I also have one
>other dream, to build my own Europa...! I just can't deside which one to
>build. The mono, or the tri.. I understand that the mono can bee a real
>chalenge, particulary to unexperienced pilots. But I like the the mono
>looks
>so much better than the tri! Any one out there who can help me make up my
>mind? It canges from day to day.. I really don't want to build an aircraft
>which I can't handle...
>
>Regards!
>
>Morten Lund Karlsen
>
>
Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection
http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
To all who answered.a hearty thanks. I guess Tony and I are not the only ones with
this problem and quite a few had to cut up into the joggle a little bit. I've
been advised not to finish up right now but wait until the top is on to finish
the cut which I think will go approx: 1/2" into the joint of the top and
bottom for the 12 deg. I'm approx 11.25 now just below the joggle. Tony, you and
I are about the same. I'm building a tri-gear so think the factory specs of
+12 -4 will do, although I have about -8 on the bottom side.Sorry for so late
a post in answering as have been off the network for 2 days..thanks again. BTW
if a little appreshensive about the strength of the joint, after joining togeather
I can always lay up a couple of pieces of bid across the area. (suggestion
by Steve Hager who had to do the same). I guess not all "Kits" are identical.
Al Stills
A095
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 16/08/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>For those who followed my paint saga you'll be pleased to know that I am
>now the proud owner of a very shiny Europa! The local glider painter
>delivered it back yesterday afternoon and it looks absolutely stunning.
>The wings are a smooth mirror finish without a single ripple across the
>entire surface.
>
>Once I wipe this grin off my face I can get on and finish the fitout.
>
>Tony
Delighted to hear about the grin. We all need it some days! What paint did
the glider wizard use? Be nice to know what she weighs when you finish
adding built in headwinds? (Heavy instruments you probably won't need!)
Graham
---
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: mono vs. trigear |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Joseph J. Like" <josephlike@cox.net>
For the US there is a third option. A conventional gear. Bob at flight crafters
has
a realy nice conventional gear mod that several builders went with before it even
flew. Bob's has flown and the design has proven itself. But the UK might not
approve
of his mod.
DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
>
> This is a question that many of the newer Europa builders have had to deal
> with since the Trigear came along a little while after the Europa was on the
> homebuilder market. I have had that same question nag at me all through my build
> until I reached this point. I will order the main and nose gear from Europa
> soon.
> My points that I had to deal with were these:
> 1) The mono was designed with the European community in mind. The expense of
> landing at a "real" airport meant that many people and clubs got together with
> local farmers to use their fields at certain times. What is your situation on
> airports? When was the last time you landed at anything other than an
> airport? Remember, even airports with grass landing strips are usually hard packed
> and smooth enough for most trikes.
> 2) Once you get your PPL in a 172 (like I did), you will have to continue
> your training in order to become tailwheel certified. If you do I would suggest
> that you also inquire about "Unusual Attitude Recovery" training. After that
> course you will never worry about a spin again.
> 3) Even after your tailwheel training, you will need to trained on the Europa
> handling. Once in the air, it flies like a dream. But on the ground it can be
> a handful to those that doe not understand it's needs.
> 4) If there will ever come a time that you sell your precious flying machine,
> you might have more of a Customer base with the Trigear.
>
> I hope this starts your thinking process.
>
> Mike Duane A207
> Redding, California
> XS Trigear
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Attention Steve Dunsmuir |
>
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Attention Steve Dunsmuir,
Sorry to have to use the list but I have bounced mail and this is the only way
to get the message through.
Steve,
Yesterday I sent you a picture of my setup for my trim T piece slots. I used
the reply button to your personal e-mail to me, so I believe I have the right
address. Would you mind e-mailing me again so that I can verify address, and
for info the returned mail stated.....Permanent Fatal Errors.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
At 11:02 PM 8/17/2003 +1000, you wrote:
>
> The original message was received at Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:52:00 +1000
> from mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au [210.49.20.162]
>
> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> <ScramIt@aol.com>
> (reason: 554-(RLY:B1) The information presently available to AOL
> indicates this)
>
> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable
> Reporting-MTA: dns; fallbackmx01.syd.optusnet.com.au
> Arrival-Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:52:00 +1000
>
> Final-Recipient: RFC822; ScramIt@aol.com
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.5.0
> Remote-MTA: DNS; mailin-02.mx.aol.com
> Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 554-(RLY:B1) The information presently available to
> AOL indicates this
> Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 23:02:07 +1000
> Return-Path: <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
> Received: from mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au
> [210.49.20.162])
> by fallbackmx01.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.6p2/8.10.1) with ESMTP id
> h7H8q0X02810
> Received: from SONY (c211-28-252-210.thorn1.nsw.optusnet.com.au
> [211.28.252.210])
> by mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with SMTP id
> h7H8ohh17762
> Message-Id: <4.1.20030817183651.00f5c938@mail.optusnet.com.au>
> X-Sender: tonyrenshaw@mail.optusnet.com.au
> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1
> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:50:40 +1000
> To: ScramIt@aol.com
> From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
> Subject: Re: Tailplane pitch
> In-Reply-To: <149.17010e81.2c6fa87c@aol.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
>
> Steve,
> Thanks for the offer to compare with yours. Here is the requested photo. I
> look forward to your comparison and some dimensions. My dimensions should be
> clear from the photo, but just in case they aren't, my slot ends 55 mm from
> the top of the joggle, and 210 mm respectively.
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
>
>
> At 11:32 AM 8/16/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> I went out to look at my setup, I can't imagine having to slot up to the
>> joggle. I have the slots cut per plans a can range greater than +12 -4.
>> Please send photo's with a ruler in them. Something sounds very wrong. I
>> will post any pictures you guys need on my site"
>> http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html
>> In the back of the boat section.
>> Send PICS of what you want to see and I will match your photos with my
>> setup.
>>
>> Hope I can help,
>> SteveD
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|