Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:42 AM - Re: Additional thoughts on wing root fairings (Michael Parkin)
2. 01:11 AM - 914 Overboost? (Ronald J. Parigoris)
3. 02:32 AM - : Flap root extensions (Graham Singleton)
4. 03:14 AM - UK - Sywell Fly In (Carl & Dot)
5. 08:19 AM - Re: Wing Root Fairings tape (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
6. 08:22 AM - Re: 914 Overboost? (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
7. 11:46 AM - airbrakes (chris davis)
8. 12:21 PM - Re: airbrakes (Europa Aircraft)
9. 02:22 PM - Re: 914 Over boost? (Europa Aircraft)
10. 07:06 PM - Thanks for wing-root responses! (Fred R. Klein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Additional thoughts on wing root fairings |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin@btopenworld.com>
Yes to both.
(914 and Airmaster Prop)
regards,
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Stewart" <alan.stewart@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Additional thoughts on wing root fairings
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stewart"
<alan.stewart@blueyonder.co.uk>
>
>
> I'm not convinced either.
>
> I've believed for some time that the aircraft is near to its practical
> performance limits, taking into account engine power, fuselage and wing
> design and weight. Theoretical claims are easy to make, but more
> difficult to substantiate. I'm impressed if the figure is truly 130kts
> TAS at 18 litres/hr (low altitude), and would have considered around
> 120kts+ on a 912 to be approximately right at just over 5000RPM at
> 18l/hr. Do you have a VP prop or a different engine ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
> Parkin
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Additional thoughts on wing root fairings
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Parkin"
> --> <Mikenjulie.Parkin@btopenworld.com>
>
> Fred,
>
> I am not convinced that the performance could be significantly improved
> with a change of wing fillet.
>
> Having just returned from the EAS Fly-in in Switzerland, travelling
> along at 130 knots IAS on 18 lts/hr and leaving most spamcans behind in
> the French dust I am not sure the effort would be worth the final
> result.
>
> The phrase, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" springs to mind.
>
> regards,
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Europa-List: Additional thoughts on wing root fairings
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
> >
> > Still, I can't help but believe that cruise speed and fuel economy
> > could
> be
> > significantly enhanced with the proper aerodynamic transition between
> > fuselage and wing. So I'm thinking about a really big
> > fairing/fillet...I want to see that trailing edge of the wing sweep
> > aft along the fuselage in
> a
> > quarter of an elipse with a half-major axis of say 30 inches and a
> > half-minor axis of say 24 inches, with a generous curvature between
> fuselage and wing.
> > Hopefully,
> >
> > Fred Klein, A-194
> >
> >
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
I am building in a hanger next to my DARs.
He mentioned he signed off some sort of "Flying Lawn Furniture". I forget the name
of it. Anyway it is 914 powered.
Ends up he is having an over boost problem. He trashed the motor on first flight
and Rotax would not warranty it. Think it failed 1 or 2 pistons.
I don't know what prop he was using.
After the motor back in and a few hours the same thing.
Curious, many problems with 914 Europas over boosting and trashing engine?
I would think that there would be some sort well thought out plan designed in,
where motor could kinda sortta figure out from more than 1 sensor if in over boost
or too far advanced or too lean, and then go and dump wastegate/retard ignition.
I would think even if wastegate stuck closed, timing would go to very mild? Maybe
not. I know on some cars owners install controlled leaks (Pilot controlled
valves) that cheat the system into providing more boost.
Ron Parigoris
Message 3
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| Subject: | : Flap root extensions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 22/08/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
>I vaguely recollect the factory tested a classic with this mod years ago.
>It turned out the airflow was much worse than with no root extensions.
>Worth asking them about it.
>Pete
This was back in the Pete Clarke days.Ivan took the liberty of tufting my
Classic (he did ask) which had extended root fairings extended on the
bottom of the flap to cover cross tube slot. His interest was the cooling
air outlets above the cowling split at the back and we were both surprised
that it didn't upset the airflow over the fuselage. He claimed that the
root fairings "trashed" the airflow at the back of the wing. Not true,
there was one tuft shaking a bit just above the flap in the clean
condition. My guess is that lifting the trailing edge of the flap fairing a
bit would cure it. Flaps down there was separation as you would expect. He
also claimed that without fillet extensions over the flap the flow was
better but he never would show me any photos to prove it! I did see my own
tufts in action (Pete flew G-KWIP) and took a couple of pictures. I will
try and find them. KWIP had a few other mods so its not comparable to other
Classics, best full power speed I ever saw was 137 Kts with 912 & PV50
prop. That was with the cooling outlets at the rear of the top cowl. I
changed it after that and never saw the same speed again. Fool!
My EZ friends have done a lot of this sort of thing. They usually paint the
area of interest with old engine oil, (there is a better way, oil + a dye
but I have no details) then go fly at the relevant airspeed, then either
photograph air to air or land and photograph. Rutan did a lot of this in
the early days too.
We owe a lot to Burt Rutan. I do hope his homebuilt spaceship works.
Graham
---
Message 4
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| Subject: | UK - Sywell Fly In |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
Does anybody know if the Sywell Europa fly in tomorrow (Sunday 24th Aug) is
still scheduled to go ahead.
I noticed it in the Europa Club Mag but it isnt advertised anywhere else.
Not sure who's organising it.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Root Fairings tape |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 8/21/2003 6:39:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
europajim@juno.com writes:
> My
> fairings do vary a bit but when placed together with the wings and white
> vinal (electricians tape) tape to cover the gap which needs to be there,
>
There is a guy in Columbus, Ohio, that sells a vinyl tape a lot of sailplane
guys use to seal their wing roots and vertical to horizontal connection on the
tailfeathers. This stuff is 1" wide, stretches 400% and sticks way better
than electrical tape. Contact him at usoar@juno.com or 614-783-6912. He also
sells the goofy looking terrycloth "bucket hats" commonly seen on glider folk.
His
are really nice, thick material. For those of us with fair skin they work
great at keeping the sun off your ears, neck and forehead.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Overboost? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 8/23/2003 4:11:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes:
> Curious, many problems with 914 Europas over boosting and trashing engine?
>
I know of one case. A guy who flys sailplanes out of our field also has a 914
powered Katana. His waste gate stuck closed because of lead fouling (from
running 100LL) and ended up snapping the crankshaft because of overboost. Rotax
didn't warranty it either.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "chris davis" <scrounge69@comcast.net>
long wing europa builders,just getting started building my airbrakes and I havea
problem the half inch closeout flange pieces on the airbrake cores ,one end
is fine but the other was obviously cutwrong .One end is about a half inch but
the other end is less than three eighths its cut on an angle leaving the end
on an angle i can fudge it and make it come out straight but since there is no
length in the so called manualI dont know how long it is supposed to be ! would
you ask europa for a knew air brake or is this type of thing to be expected
? any thoughts ? thanks .Chris Davis A160MG
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa Aircraft" <europa@gate.net>
Chris,
If your cores are somehow defective, then give me a call so I can help. We
will advise you of a repair scheme, or replace them.
We are very interested in helping all of our builders get there machines in
the air. If an out of spec part, or manual detail is holding you up, then
please let us know so we can give you a hand.
Happy Building!
John Hurst
Europa Aircraft
Lakeland, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of chris davis
Subject: Europa-List: airbrakes
--> Europa-List message posted by: "chris davis" <scrounge69@comcast.net>
long wing europa builders,just getting started building my airbrakes and I
havea problem the half inch closeout flange pieces on the airbrake cores
,one end is fine but the other was obviously cutwrong .One end is about a
half inch but the other end is less than three eighths its cut on an angle
leaving the end on an angle i can fudge it and make it come out straight but
since there is no length in the so called manualI dont know how long it is
supposed to be ! would you ask europa for a knew air brake or is this type
of thing to be expected ? any thoughts ? thanks .Chris Davis A160MG
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa Aircraft" <europa@gate.net>
Hi All,
This brings up a good operational point. If the wastgate gets stuck on
takeoff, then 4 things will happen.
1. The red TCU warning light will illuminate.
2. The manifold pressure will advance above 39"
3. The tachometer will indicate an over speed.
4. The engine will sound very different.
If you ever notice any of these really obvious indications, abort the
takeoff, taxi back & free the wastegate. If you do this, then no engine
damage will occur.
If you don't catch it until after liftoff & there isn't enough runway to
land, then bring the throttle back to 39" or less, and return for landing.
You will need to carry out some inspections as prescribed by Rotax, as you
have probably exceeded max boost, or RPM for over 60 seconds.
If the wastgate sticks in cruise, then the engine will probably knock at
high altitudes. In this case the wastegate is not stuck shut, it simply
can't adjust to regulate boost, and air box temperature. Manifold pressure,
or RPM will not exceed limits. The only indication, other than a knock, may
be a high EGT, followed by a low EGT after the engine gets rough. In this
case pull back the power & descend to a lower altitude (usually below
8,000') Monitor your EGT, listen for detonation & proceed to a good MX base
where you can free your wastegate.
Usually a stuck wastegate is caused by lead contamination, which can't
happen with auto fuel.
The wastegate can be removed and cleaned if it becomes too dirty.
Thanks to Rotax North America tech support for the above info.
Happy Flying!
John Hurst
Europa Aircraft
Lakeland, FL USA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Overboost?
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 8/23/2003 4:11:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes:
> Curious, many problems with 914 Europas over boosting and trashing engine?
>
I know of one case. A guy who flys sailplanes out of our field also has a
914
powered Katana. His waste gate stuck closed because of lead fouling (from
running 100LL) and ended up snapping the crankshaft because of overboost.
Rotax
didn't warranty it either.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 10
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| Subject: | Thanks for wing-root responses! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Gentlepeople...
I wish to thank everyone so much for the insights, references, wisdom, and
healthy skepticism...much grist for the mill!
When re-reading my original posting, I discovered an error in my description
of a hypothetical fairing/fillet when I wrote..."a quarter of an elipse with
a half-major axis of say 30 inches and a half-minor axis of say 24 inches"
which would be a quite large indeed. I should have written "major" and
"minor"...not "half-major etc...which reduces the proposed fairing/fillet
IMHO to a more reasonalbe proportion to the wing chord.
I envy all of you who are already in the air...happy landings
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