Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:38 AM - Re: 914 Over boost? (owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com)
2. 04:39 AM - Tail plane action (Gerry Holland)
3. 05:59 AM - FW: Tail plane action (Gerry Holland)
4. 07:01 AM - Tailplane Pitch (Alan Stills)
5. 08:13 AM - Re: FW: Tail plane action (Fergus Kyle)
6. 08:38 AM - Re: FW: Tail plane action (Gerry Holland)
7. 10:31 AM - Re: FW: Tail plane action (Rob Housman)
8. 03:48 PM - Epoxy etc. (Graham Singleton)
9. 03:48 PM - resin and glass issues (Graham Singleton)
10. 03:59 PM - Re: FW: Tail plane action (Kingsley Hurst)
11. 10:15 PM - Cooling duct ambiguity (Steve Hagar)
12. 11:49 PM - Re: FW: Tail plane action (Gerry Holland)
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 914 Over boost? |
--> Europa-List message posted by:
Thanks John, for a crisp clear comment/answer.
Regards Gert
Gert Dalgaard Soerensen
Stabelvej 9, Haarby
DK 8660 Skanderborg
Denmark
Europa builder No. 151
Europa Classic / Rotax 914
AC reg.: OY-GDS
Phone.: +45 8695 0595
E mail: lgds@post6.tele.dk
http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dalgaard/oygds.jpeg
sndag 24. aug 2003 kl. 02:28 skrev Europa Aircraft:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa Aircraft" <europa@gate.net>
>
> Hi All,
>
> This brings up a good operational point. If the wastgate gets stuck on
> takeoff, then 4 things will happen.
>
> 1. The red TCU warning light will illuminate.
>
> 2. The manifold pressure will advance above 39"
>
> 3. The tachometer will indicate an over speed.
>
> 4. The engine will sound very different.
>
> If you ever notice any of these really obvious indications, abort the
> takeoff, taxi back & free the wastegate. If you do this, then no
> engine
> damage will occur.
>
> If you don't catch it until after liftoff & there isn't enough runway
> to
> land, then bring the throttle back to 39" or less, and return for
> landing.
> You will need to carry out some inspections as prescribed by Rotax, as
> you
> have probably exceeded max boost, or RPM for over 60 seconds.
>
> If the wastgate sticks in cruise, then the engine will probably knock
> at
> high altitudes. In this case the wastegate is not stuck shut, it
> simply
> can't adjust to regulate boost, and air box temperature. Manifold
> pressure,
> or RPM will not exceed limits. The only indication, other than a
> knock, may
> be a high EGT, followed by a low EGT after the engine gets rough. In
> this
> case pull back the power & descend to a lower altitude (usually below
> 8,000') Monitor your EGT, listen for detonation & proceed to a good
> MX base
> where you can free your wastegate.
>
> Usually a stuck wastegate is caused by lead contamination, which can't
> happen with auto fuel.
>
> The wastegate can be removed and cleaned if it becomes too dirty.
>
> Thanks to Rotax North America tech support for the above info.
>
> Happy Flying!
>
> John Hurst
> Europa Aircraft
> Lakeland, FL USA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Overboost?
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/23/2003 4:11:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes:
>
>> Curious, many problems with 914 Europas over boosting and trashing
>> engine?
>>
>
> I know of one case. A guy who flys sailplanes out of our field also
> has a
> 914
> powered Katana. His waste gate stuck closed because of lead fouling
> (from
> running 100LL) and ended up snapping the crankshaft because of
> overboost.
> Rotax
> didn't warranty it either.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Tail plane action |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
I=B9m carrying out full fitment of all parts of Aircraft prior to painting in
2 weeks time and checking actions and travels.
Most systems are within limits but the big contention is Tail plane action.
Seemed heavy.
I=B9ve visited archives and found others have laboured in this area so I=B9m
looking for some feedback on Tail plane weights.
The typical counterbalance weights as delivered are approx 2500 =AD3000 grams
in total. Mine are 2950 grams.
My Tail Planes with Anti =ADservo Tabs fitted weigh - Port: 12.5 lbs -
Starboard: 12.9 lbs
Adding the full counterbalance weight does not give me full balance.
Adding another 500 grams makes the action and balance feel much better.
The Pitch Control Rod is disconnected and each =8Caction=B9 seems free in
movement.
Could someone be kind enough to weigh a full finished (painted) Tail plane,
Port or Starboard to give me a rough guide on typical weight and any
Counterbalance weights that are yet to be fitted.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
Europa 384
G-FIZY
+44 7808 402404
gnholland@onetel.com
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | FW: Tail plane action |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Resent as previously sent in HTML.
Im carrying out full fitment of all parts of Aircraft prior to painting in
2 weeks time and checking actions and travels.
Most systems are within limits but the big contention is Tail plane action.
Seemed heavy.
Ive visited archives and found others have laboured in this area so Im
looking for some feedback on Tail plane weights.
The typical counterbalance weights as delivered are approx 2500 3000 grams
in total. Mine are 2950 grams.
My Tail Planes with Anti servo Tabs fitted weigh - Port: 12.5 lbs -
Starboard: 12.9 lbs
Adding the full counterbalance weight does not give me full balance.
Adding another 500 grams makes the action and balance feel much better.
The Pitch Control Rod is disconnected and each action seems free in
movement.
Could someone be kind enough to weigh a full finished (painted) Tail plane,
Port or Starboard to give me a rough guide on typical weight and any
Counterbalance weights that are yet to be fitted.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
Europa 384
G-FIZY
+44 7808 402404
gnholland@onetel.com
------ End of Forwarded Message
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
Just an update to all about my tailplane pitch. Went back into the "boat" and checked
and adjusted all links...wound up with 12.2 deg's up and 4.7 deg's down.
Thanks for all the helpful hints and suggestions. Now all I have to do is to
adjust the travel in my "Stick" to place it where I'm confortable with it in
the level position. On to installing the tri-gear now. Already glassed in and
cut the holes. Must position the "boat" to exact specs as I don't want to be wearing
the tires out every 40 hrs as some. I've been told that with our tri-gear
set up we can expect to wear tires out sooner than say a Cessena but can limit
the wear by really paying attention to the install.
Al Stills
A095
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: FW: Tail plane action |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Gerry,
Quick thought: Although your weights should really come within
the specs outlined in the manual i suppose, if it really comes down to
greater counterweight - there's always the option of extending the arm
rather than increasing the weight?
Cheers again,
Ferg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerry Holland" <gnholland@onetel.com>
Subject: Europa-List: FW: Tail plane action
| --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
|
| Resent as previously sent in HTML.
|
|
| Im carrying out full fitment of all parts of Aircraft prior to painting in
| 2 weeks time and checking actions and travels.
| Most systems are within limits but the big contention is Tail plane
action.
| Seemed heavy.
|
| Ive visited archives and found others have laboured in this area so Im
| looking for some feedback on Tail plane weights.
|
| The typical counterbalance weights as delivered are approx 2500 3000 grams
| in total. Mine are 2950 grams.
|
| My Tail Planes with Anti servo Tabs fitted weigh - Port: 12.5 lbs -
| Starboard: 12.9 lbs
| Adding the full counterbalance weight does not give me full balance.
| Adding another 500 grams makes the action and balance feel much better.
|
| The Pitch Control Rod is disconnected and each action seems free in
| movement.
|
| Could someone be kind enough to weigh a full finished (painted) Tail
plane,
| Port or Starboard to give me a rough guide on typical weight and any
| Counterbalance weights that are yet to be fitted.
|
| Regards
|
| Gerry
|
| Gerry Holland
| Europa 384
| G-FIZY
| +44 7808 402404
| gnholland@onetel.com
|
| ------ End of Forwarded Message
|
|
|
|
|
|
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: FW: Tail plane action |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Ferg Hi!
> Quick thought: Although your weights should really come within
> the specs outlined in the manual i suppose, if it really comes down to
> greater counterweight - there's always the option of extending the arm
> rather than increasing the weight?
Thanks for that. I will 'bank' that and if saga continues will use the
technique.
Regards
Gerry
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | FW: Tail plane action |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.com>
Since I am in the process of preparing to paint, I can provide the weight
with Pre-Prime Filler but not primer or paint. With antiservo tab the
weight is 9 lbs using an admittedly uncalibrated digital bathroom scale.
When rigged these tailplanes do not have sufficient mass to overcome the
mass of the counterbalance weight requiring quite a pull on the stick to
elevate the counterweight at its full forward position.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gerry
Holland
Subject: Europa-List: FW: Tail plane action
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Resent as previously sent in HTML.
Im carrying out full fitment of all parts of Aircraft prior to painting in
2 weeks time and checking actions and travels.
Most systems are within limits but the big contention is Tail plane action.
Seemed heavy.
Ive visited archives and found others have laboured in this area so Im
looking for some feedback on Tail plane weights.
The typical counterbalance weights as delivered are approx 2500 3000 grams
in total. Mine are 2950 grams.
My Tail Planes with Anti servo Tabs fitted weigh - Port: 12.5 lbs -
Starboard: 12.9 lbs
Adding the full counterbalance weight does not give me full balance.
Adding another 500 grams makes the action and balance feel much better.
The Pitch Control Rod is disconnected and each action seems free in
movement.
Could someone be kind enough to weigh a full finished (painted) Tail plane,
Port or Starboard to give me a rough guide on typical weight and any
Counterbalance weights that are yet to be fitted.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
Europa 384
G-FIZY
+44 7808 402404
gnholland@onetel.com
------ End of Forwarded Message
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
A few more words of wisdom and experience from Gary Hunter that I thought
worth passing on. There's no substitute for experience, even better if it's
someone elses?!?
Graham
> Is Nat's statement that if ... the glass wets out and goes transparent
> > (I'll be using MGS epoxy) it's OK, and that if it stays white it isn't
>wetting out and is no good ... a reliable test? It makes sense to me, but
>you're
>the expert. Please help me out here .... Jim S.
>
>As usual, Nat is pretty much correct. (Nat Puffer, CoZ designer)
>
>Glass fibers have a "SIZING" applied to them when they are made. Most
>resins do not inherently wet out or adhere to the glass fibers very well by
>themselves. Primarily because of a disparity in their surface tensions.
>The sizing is applied to the fibers as a very very dilute dispersion or
>solution in water. The sizing solution does several things. The water
>(introduced as a fog or spray) is used to cool the fiber from its molten
>state. It is also the carrier solvent for the sizing. The solution is
>also a lubricant for the downstream processing of the fiber up until it is
>put on a spool and dried in an oven. Most importantly, the sizing
>reduces the disparity in surface tensions between the glass fiber and the
>resin. The sizing formulation is tailored for the specific kind of
>"RESIN" that will be used to wet out the glass fibers. A polyester (boat
>resin) requires a different kind of sizing than an EPOXY resin. There
>are some sizings designed to be "dual" compatible. The only way know
>what you have is make sure you buy the fiberglass specifically called out
>by the designer of the aircraft.
>
>Most of fiberglass you buy at the auto parts store, or marine supply house
>is intended for polyester resins. However, with West Systems Epoxy being
>sold through many auto and marine supply stores for auto body and boat
>repair, most of the fiberglass is probably dual compatible. You can
>probably use that fiberglass to make or repair your wheel pants or fairings
>and such. But, under no circumstances should you consider that glass
>source for structural components of your aircraft.
>
>One way you can tell if the fabric sizing is compatible with he resin you
>are using is a visual indication of "wet out". Just like Nat said. If it
>doesn't wet out the glass fabric, it doesn't turn transparent or
>translucent . It stays whitish.
>
>Since these sizings are introduced to the glass fibers as a water solution,
>they generally contain an extremely minute amount of surfactants to keep
>them dispersed in water while they are being applied to the fibers. These
>surfactants remain on the fiber after the water is dried. As such, if
>water is re-introduced to the glass fabric, the sizing can be washed off or
>moved about. You have probably noticed that if you had accidently dropped
>a bead of sweat onto you glass fabric, it makes a permanent mark in your
>laminate, even if you allowed it to dry before you did the lay up. This is
>because the sizing was washed off the fiber in that particular area.
>Similar results can occur if the entire roll of fiberglass were to become
>wetted.
>
>DO NOT USE glass that has become wet.
>
>Exposure to high humidity generally doesn't hurt the fiberglass like direct
>contact with water. However, it can run the risk of mildew forming on the
>fabric. Generally, this will only occur on the first layers of the roll.
>Further down in the roll, the glass fabric is probably OK.
>
>SO, if you think the glass is suspect, throw away the first few layers, and
>check the fabric below before using it.
>
>Properly stored, the fiberglass we use should have an infinite shelf life.
>I ALWAY store my fiberglass wrapped up in polyethylene plastic to protect
>it from contamination of all sorts. A 3 or 5 mil polyethylene painters
>tarp, rolled around the roll several times. Make sure the polyethylene
>plastic is about 1 foot wider than the roll. Tuck the ends of the
>polyethylene plastic into the ends of cardboard roll, and wedge it into
>place with a mixing cup. This is very handy, and eliminates hassles with
>masking tape and stuff.
---
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | resin and glass issues |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
A few more words of wisdom and experience from Gary Hunter that I thought
worth passing on. There's no substitute for experience, even better if it's
someone elses?!?
Graham
Is Nat's statement that if ... the glass wets out and goes transparent
> (I'll be using MGS epoxy) it's OK, and that if it stays white it isn't
wetting
> out and is no good ... a reliable test? It makes sense to me, but you're
the
> expert.
>
> Please help me out here .... Jim S.
As usual, Nat is pretty much correct.
Glass fibers have a "SIZING" applied to them when they are made. Most
resins do not inherently wet out or adhere to the glass fibers very well by
themselves. Primarily because of a disparity in their surface tensions.
The sizing is applied to the fibers as a very very dilute dispersion or
solution in water. The sizing solution does several things. The water
(introduced as a fog or spray) is used to cool the fiber from its molten
state. It is also the carrier solvent for the sizing. The solution is
also a lubricant for the downstream processing of the fiber up until it is
put on a spool and dried in an oven. Most importantly, the sizing
reduces the disparity in surface tensions between the glass fiber and the
resin. The sizing formulation is tailored for the specific kind of
"RESIN" that will be used to wet out the glass fibers. A polyester (boat
resin) requires a different kind of sizing than an EPOXY resin. There
are some sizings designed to be "dual" compatible. The only way know
what you have is make sure you buy the fiberglass specifically called out
by the designer of the aircraft.
Most of fiberglass you buy at the auto parts store, or marine supply house
is intended for polyester resins. However, with West Systems Epoxy being
sold through many auto and marine supply stores for auto body and boat
repair, most of the fiberglass is probably dual compatible. You can
probably use that fiberglass to make or repair your wheel pants or fairings
and such. But, under no circumstances should you consider that glass
source for structural components of your aircraft.
One way you can tell if the fabric sizing is compatible with he resin you
are using is a visual indication of "wet out". Just like Nat said. If it
doesn't wet out the glass fabric, it doesn't turn transparent or
translucent . It stays whitish.
Since these sizings are introduced to the glass fibers as a water solution,
they generally contain an extremely minute amount of surfactants to keep
them dispersed in water while they are being applied to the fibers. These
surfactants remain on the fiber after the water is dried. As such, if
water is re-introduced to the glass fabric, the sizing can be washed off or
moved about. You have probably noticed that if you had accidently dropped
a bead of sweat onto you glass fabric, it makes a permanent mark in your
laminate, even if you allowed it to dry before you did the lay up. This is
because the sizing was washed off the fiber in that particular area.
Similar results can occur if the entire roll of fiberglass were to become
wetted.
DO NOT USE glass that has become wet.
Exposure to high humidity generally doesn't hurt the fiberglass like direct
contact with water. However, it can run the risk of mildew forming on the
fabric. Generally, this will only occur on the first layers of the roll.
Further down in the roll, the glass fabric is probably OK.
SO, if you think the glass is suspect, throw away the first few layers, and
check the fabric below before using it.
Properly stored, the fiberglass we use should have an infinite shelf life.
I ALWAY store my fiberglass wrapped up in polyethylene plastic to protect
it from contamination of all sorts. A 3 or 5 mil polyethylene painters
tarp, rolled around the roll several times. Make sure the polyethylene
plastic is about 1 foot wider than the roll. Tuck the ends of the
polyethylene plastic into the ends of cardboard roll, and wedge it into
place with a mixing cup. This is very handy, and eliminates hassles with
masking tape and stuff.
---
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: FW: Tail plane action |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
Gerry,
Further to Ferg's suggestion of extending the arm, I would respectfully
suggest you reinstal the main pitch push rod and check the amount of
clearance you have between it and the closest part of the Mass Balance
Weight (at full forward position).
If you have been able to achieve 13 degrees up elevator and 5 down, I
suspect you will have little room left to be able to extend the arm. This
is certainly the case with mine anyway.
If it turns out your tailplane is a bit heavier than expected, maybe
substituting the front weight with one made of lead may do the trick.
Regards
Kingsley Hurst
Mono Classic 281 in Oz
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Cooling duct ambiguity |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
In the process of installing the cooling duct for the 914. . . Pretty
much straight forward until the instructions are read: "The assembled duct
is fitted to the footwell using three bolts each side". Two sentences
later. "A single AN3-5A bolt screws the side of the duct onto the inside
face of the footwell using MS21047-3 anchor nut etc . . . " Page 4-2 of
firewall forward manual. So what is it 1? 3? or 1 + 3? = 4?. I would
normally go with the conservative and put 3 in . Is there something I'm
missing with the call out of the single bolt?
Thanks.
Steve
A143
Mesa, AZ
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs@earthlink.net
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: FW: Tail plane action |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Kingsley Hi!
>
> Further to Ferg's suggestion of extending the arm, I would respectfully
> suggest you reinstal the main pitch push rod and check the amount of
> clearance you have between it and the closest part of the Mass Balance
> Weight (at full forward position).
>
> If you have been able to achieve 13 degrees up elevator and 5 down, I
> suspect you will have little room left to be able to extend the arm. This
> is certainly the case with mine anyway.
Many Thanks for your observations. I have the action a little better
balanced now and did in fact remove the 3 Small Weight 'Discs' in Kit and
replace them with Lead versions. It increased the overall weight by about
300 grams so total weight on Balance Arm is 3250 grams.
The Aircraft gets the full Inspection soon prior to Flight with a
independent Inspector instead of my usual Inspector who 'referees' the
efforts at the moment. The Final Inspector has signed off a lot of Europa's
so I will seek his guidance and any changes he recommends.
The Lead Weights came out well. Made a Splash mould of small steel Weight
Discs in 'glass' and then poured Lead into these moulds. Not a very
repeatable exercise as Moulds just about do the process twice. The fumes
from Hot Lead and Composite mould were something else!!
Climbing in the back of the Fuselage to adjust, add weight, etc. is not my
idea of a good day!
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
Europa 384
G-FIZY
+44 7808 402404
gnholland@onetel.com
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|