---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/27/03: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:02 AM - 912 - Classic - Exhaust Pipe Fracture Survey (William Mills) 2. 12:02 AM - Re: Rivet Question (Tony S. Krzyzewski) 3. 03:18 AM - Failed address./Ed Miller. (R.C.Harrison) 4. 08:05 AM - Undercarriage mounting frame (Ronald J. Parigoris) 5. 08:42 AM - Re: Rivet Question (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 6. 08:55 AM - Re: Undercarriage mounting frame (Rob Housman) 7. 10:16 AM - Re: 912 - Classic - Exhaust Pipe Fracture Survey (Alan Stewart) 8. 01:20 PM - pin holes (paul stewart) 9. 02:15 PM - Re: pin holes (Rob Housman) 10. 02:20 PM - Re: pin holes (R.C.Harrison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:10 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Europa-List: 912 - Classic - Exhaust Pipe Fracture Survey --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" I have recently had two stress fractures in my 912 / Classic exhaust system. The first occurred on the outside of the last bend into the silencer from No 2 cylinder (stb front) and the second occurred on the outside of the first bend in the down-pipe from No 4 cylinder (stb rear). The first was in the form of a letter "H" with the verticals circumferential and the horizontal longitudinal. After speaking to Andy, I had it gas welded and it has remained intact. 20 flying hours later the second fracture occurred (fortunately less than 10 miles from home), which blew apart and caused me to make a semi emergency down-wind landing, because the vibration with more than 1/4 throttle was unacceptable. The aircraft has flown just short of 500 hours and operates from a fairly rough farm strip. The exhaust pipes are mild steel and the box is stainless. I would like to hear from any other owners details of any exhaust fractures, hours flown and type of field used (i.e. hard or grass runways etc) I know of at least one other, but there may be more. The whole weight of the exhaust system is suspended off the down pipes and the stub tubes off the box. The inertia when the aircraft is bumping along rough ground is therefore considerable and I believe is the cause of the stress fractures. For piece of mind, I have decided to replace the whole exhaust system and having discussed the problem with Andy, he is very kindly arranging to weld some supporting lugs to the new silencer box so that I can provide metal straps to the crankcase and engine mount (cross section member rigid with the crankcase) to reduce differential movement and resulting stresses. If premature exhaust failure due to mechanical stress is going to happen, the factory might consider offering a mod to help support the weight of the system. I have offered to provide details of the support system I set up for mine. Best wishes, William ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:28 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rivet Question From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" >> What have other people gotten when they have done this? Am I gonna be drilling out lots of rivets in order to get these right? Damned this is fun! Mike, At this stage I think I'd accept what you've been able to get them to. I had an aircraft engineer help me with mine using a bench rivet press and, after patiently measuring the first two and getting similar results to you we eyeballed all the rest. I'll happily fly in my plane with them done like that and I'm pretty certain that most of the Europa's I've flown in were the same. Tony ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:37 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Europa-List: Failed address./Ed Miller. --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! should Ed Miller be reading this ..... your e-mail address is returning messages. please recontact me for information requested. Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI /Jabiru 3300 Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:43 AM PST US From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Subject: Europa-List: Undercarriage mounting frame --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" My undercarriage mounting frame for mono wheel is painted white. The surface was not prepared and the paint is not tuck very well. What is the best way to clean off old paint, stripper sandblaster? I do have a free air sandblaster, can beach sand be used? Also is it a good idea to coat the inner of the open tubes with something like LPS Procyon ? (May not have correct spelling) Thanks Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:17 AM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rivet Question --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com "Do Not Archive" Thanks Tony. Glad to hear I'm not alone in this matter. Assembly will continue today. Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Trigear ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:20 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Undercarriage mounting frame --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" Squawk to the factory for a replacement. The powder coating should not be coming off but what does not come off by itself will probably be rather difficult for you to remove. Then you need to re-coat the thing. It's not worth your time and money to fix it. Eventually you will reach a point in the construction where you plug the inside of the open ends with high temperature silicone sealant. Best regards, Rob Housman Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete Irvine, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald J. Parigoris Subject: Europa-List: Undercarriage mounting frame --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" My undercarriage mounting frame for mono wheel is painted white. The surface was not prepared and the paint is not tuck very well. What is the best way to clean off old paint, stripper sandblaster? I do have a free air sandblaster, can beach sand be used? Also is it a good idea to coat the inner of the open tubes with something like LPS Procyon ? (May not have correct spelling) Thanks Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:32 AM PST US From: "Alan Stewart" Subject: RE: Europa-List: 912 - Classic - Exhaust Pipe Fracture Survey --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stewart" Hello William, My 912 'classic' Europa has flown for just under 600 hours and has a very great number of take-offs and landings (higher than average), mostly from a relatively smooth grass strip. I have had 2, non-catastrophic exhaust failures in that time. On the first occasion, after around 200 hours, a hole appeared in the upper portion of the exhaust, probably related to a 'wire-wool' type heat insulating material covering. (did it encourage condensation ?) The insulation is now, no longer used. The engine became much noisier, though the aircraft remained perfectly flyable. The failed pipe was replaced. On the second occasion, a hole appeared around 400 hours around the 'crossover' point of the exhaust downpipes and was only spotted on inspection. I can dig out more details, if you write me. Alan I've stopped 271 spam messages. You can too! Get your free, safe spam protection at http://www.cloudmark.com/spamnetsig/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Mills Subject: Europa-List: 912 - Classic - Exhaust Pipe Fracture Survey --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" I have recently had two stress fractures in my 912 / Classic exhaust system. The first occurred on the outside of the last bend into the silencer from No 2 cylinder (stb front) and the second occurred on the outside of the first bend in the down-pipe from No 4 cylinder (stb rear). The first was in the form of a letter "H" with the verticals circumferential and the horizontal longitudinal. After speaking to Andy, I had it gas welded and it has remained intact. 20 flying hours later the second fracture occurred (fortunately less than 10 miles from home), which blew apart and caused me to make a semi emergency down-wind landing, because the vibration with more than 1/4 throttle was unacceptable. The aircraft has flown just short of 500 hours and operates from a fairly rough farm strip. The exhaust pipes are mild steel and the box is stainless. I would like to hear from any other owners details of any exhaust fractures, hours flown and type of field used (i.e. hard or grass runways etc) I know of at least one other, but there may be more. The whole weight of the exhaust system is suspended off the down pipes and the stub tubes off the box. The inertia when the aircraft is bumping along rough ground is therefore considerable and I believe is the cause of the stress fractures. For piece of mind, I have decided to replace the whole exhaust system and having discussed the problem with Andy, he is very kindly arranging to weld some supporting lugs to the new silencer box so that I can provide metal straps to the crankcase and engine mount (cross section member rigid with the crankcase) to reduce differential movement and resulting stresses. If premature exhaust failure due to mechanical stress is going to happen, the factory might consider offering a mod to help support the weight of the system. I have offered to provide details of the support system I set up for mine. Best wishes, William ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:44 PM PST US From: "paul stewart" Subject: Europa-List: pin holes --> Europa-List message posted by: "paul stewart" Having thought we were doing quite well with a 6HP vacuum to reveal pin holes, the application of a compressed air blower has revealed yet more of the little b*****s. Are we correct in continuing to fill and sand until the last pin hole is banished or does primer take care of the odd one or two? We are using superfil and intend to prime with smooth prime. Regards Paul Stewart #432 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:48 PM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: pin holes --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" Since you are already using the Polyfiber's SuperFil and Smooth Prime products you must know about their Pre-Prime Sealer ("the pinhole killer"). Polyfiber's literature makes it clear that the Primer alone will not fill pinholes and accordingly recommends three rolled-on coats of Sealer (two coats in quick succession followed by a final coat after the first two fully cure). My project now has only the first two coats, so I can't tell you that it really kills pinholes, but I have no reason to doubt the claims. One other advantage to this product is that it has a glossy finish making it much easier to see imperfections that I missed when I sanded. Fortunately SuperFil can be applied directly over the Sealer. I have developed an allergic reaction to the Aeropoxy stuff, and now have discovered that the Pre-Prime Sealer likewise causes a reaction so I use a respirator with a cartridge that absorbs organics as well as filtering dust. That helps a lot. Best regards, Rob Housman Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete Irvine, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of paul stewart Subject: Europa-List: pin holes --> Europa-List message posted by: "paul stewart" Having thought we were doing quite well with a 6HP vacuum to reveal pin holes, the application of a compressed air blower has revealed yet more of the little b*****s. Are we correct in continuing to fill and sand until the last pin hole is banished or does primer take care of the odd one or two? We are using superfil and intend to prime with smooth prime. Regards Paul Stewart #432 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:54 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: pin holes --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Paul. You should leave the pin holes and "rag" them full with a roller of smooth prime. "Ragging" is to scrub the smooth prime into the pin holes with the corner of the roller. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of paul stewart Subject: Europa-List: pin holes --> Europa-List message posted by: "paul stewart" Having thought we were doing quite well with a 6HP vacuum to reveal pin holes, the application of a compressed air blower has revealed yet more of the little b*****s. Are we correct in continuing to fill and sand until the last pin hole is banished or does primer take care of the odd one or two? We are using superfil and intend to prime with smooth prime. Regards Paul Stewart #432