Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:31 AM - Re: peel ply (Stephan Cassel)
2. 03:33 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/01/03 (Graham Singleton)
3. 05:32 AM - Europa model for MS Flight Sim? (Avron Welgemoed)
4. 07:07 AM - Re: Confessions of a doorlatch hacker (hedley brown)
5. 08:14 AM - Re: Confessions of a doorlatch hacker (Jeremy Davey)
6. 09:30 AM - Re: Europa model for MS Flight Sim? (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
7. 10:13 AM - Re: Glide ratios (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
8. 10:56 AM - Re: Glide ratios (Terry Seaver)
9. 11:45 AM - Re: Glide ratios (Michael Parkin)
10. 11:49 AM - Re: Glide ratios (Michael Parkin)
11. 12:24 PM - Re: Glide ratios (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
12. 12:33 PM - Re: Confessions of a doorlatch hacker (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
13. 01:28 PM - Hangar B-17 (Erich Trombley)
14. 01:45 PM - Re: Glide ratios (DJA727@aol.com)
15. 01:52 PM - Re: Confessions of a doorlatch hacker (Jeremy Davey)
16. 06:16 PM - Ignition choices (Alan Stills)
17. 06:57 PM - looking for builder in northwest USA (Ken)
18. 07:04 PM - Re: Ignition choices (Cliff Shaw)
19. 07:26 PM - Re: Hangar B-17 (CHUCK RHOADS)
20. 08:22 PM - Re: Hangar B-17 (Chris Cameron)
21. 09:32 PM - Re: Ignition choices (Steve Hagar)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephan Cassel" <cassel@sensewave.com>
Hi Chris,
A very easy (and fun) way to cut peel ply is use a soldering iron with
a not to sharp edge. I made my knife using a hammer and sanding
paper. Soon after I found one in the shop round the 1 mark.
Put the peel ply on the cutting table and make x numbers of streight cuts
without removing
the peel ply from the table. The cut will glue (very light) the peel ply
onto the table.
When you are done with all strips remove them from the table one by one.
If you have done
the cut well you will end up with perfect strips.
The cutting speed is the key thing.
Good luck
Stephan
Builder 556
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "chris davis"
> <scrounge69@comcast.net>
>
> Europa listers anyone have problems removing peel ply from hinge
> flanges etc? threads catching under layup edges. Is there a way to cut
> peel ply so the edges dont fall apart? I am begining to really hate the
> stuff and think I would be better of not using it for the flanges at
> all! anybody tried it that way? thanks for your thoughts .Chris
> DavisA160 MG
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 09/01/03 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 01/09/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>. In the
>down position, the only time the lever should feel any load is when the
>aircraft bounces for any reason because the downward travelling wheel tends
>to want to pull the over centre mechanism straight and in doing so wants to
>make the lever move in the retraction direction. Hence the need for point 2
>above.
Kingsley
As you point out this is the usual reason for uncommanded gear retraction
events. After a bad bounce the gear is pulling itself downwards due to the
-ve G, this straightens out the over centre mechanism and can flick it past
the in line position if there is any looseness in the mechanism, the three
AN4 bolts holding the handle to the LG 08 (left). If the wheel touches the
ground at this point in the sequence all the load will be on the retract
lever and locking slot instead of the stops, then the lever will let go.
Graham
---
Message 3
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| Subject: | Europa model for MS Flight Sim? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Avron Welgemoed" <avron@eag.co.za>
Has anyone seen a model of the Europa for Microsoft's Flight Sim?
Thanks,
Avron.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Confessions of a doorlatch hacker |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "hedley brown" <hedley@hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk>
Yes -Neville has, anyway - he thinks that if we bend the retracion lever so
that it takes a positive effort to spring it out of its terminal notch, then
it doesnt really matter if the locking latch flips up momentarily. H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Confessions of a doorlatch hacker
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
> ancillary
> deviate where possible from the manual sequence when necessary.
>
both
oversize
> so that I
> one
hole
> so that it
full
> one
extended
> to
reducing
> the
memos
> on the offchance that there is someone as stupid as I. Ferg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hedley brown" <hedley@hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Confessions of a doorlatch hacker
>
>
> <hedley@hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk>
> late
electric
> bashed
> the
> little
> gravity
similar
> umpteen
> negative
of
>
> Well, it's not exactly door latches, but certainly important enough to
curry
> some interest. I have read before of someone experiencing neg G unlocking
> the outriggers and that bears investigation. It may have been a message
from
> Nigel in regard to bumpy ground unlatching gear.
> I almost made a resolution to drop some sort of 'plug' into
the
> down-slot to prevent bumps from unlocking the gear lever, but that won't
> work for outriggers. I'll bet Nigel could come up with somethiung useful
and
> minimal to discourage the tendency.........
> Ferg
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Confessions of a doorlatch hacker |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey@btinternet.com>
Ferg,
I plead membership of the 'stupid club' then. I tried to cut the fuel filler
boss of my fuel tank using my 1.75" holesaw (I didn't have a 1.5" one, and
the manual said 1.5"-1.75"). Needless to say I didn't get the holesaw dead
centre and ended up with a boss wall barely 1/16" thick down one side. I was
so set on getting the job done I didn't stop to say: "This is a stupid thing
to do!"
Given the fuel tank is not easy to change, I've taken the safe option and
got another one and put the original in the 'props for Boy Scout troop
talks' bucket...
Maybe we should have a bit of fun with an "I've made the most stupid
mistake" section on the Europa Club Web Site??? :-) Only those prepared to
laugh at themselves should enter!
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Confessions of a doorlatch hacker
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
I am so far behind in building, I have taken to making ancillary
pieces out of sequence whenever I cannot follow the manual for environmental
or other reasons. This applies to those who also must deviate where possible
from the manual sequence when necessary.
DOOR LATCHES
This applies to hacking the hardware in
Classic manual, Door Latches, Chap 35, p.35-2, fabricating DL08R&F both port
& starboard bolt arms, and,
XS manual, Door Latches, Chap.33, p. 33-2, same process.
I made a habit of cutting each 10mm arm 'slightly' oversize so
that I could later reduce it to exactly the prescribed dimension. HOWEVER,
in one case I forgot to do that and verrry carefully drilled the requisite
hole so that it ended up more than the required 7mm from the end (and didn't
notice). When it came to assemble, the handle would not happily traverse to
full forward (it jambed somewhere). Finding the source of the hesitation was
time-consuming and frustrating. It was not easy to see where the jamb
occurred. While the pivots were the proper distance from each other - one
was 8mm from its end, because I had forgotten to reduce the rod to the
proper length. It therefore jambed against the axle barrel when extended to
full forward action with the internal handle. Taking it out and reducing the
dimension to the required 7mm solved the time-consuming problem.
Neville and Ivan would smile.
So if you come across the same problem as you assemble, remember
their words. Measure twice. Or, in my case, write yourself memos to
re-measure before later assembly.
I did not pen this solely for self-purification. It's just on
the offchance that there is someone as stupid as I.
Ferg
Europa A064
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Europa model for MS Flight Sim? |
09/02/2003 12:27:42 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/02/2003 12:27:42 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
- Has anyone seen a MSFS model of the Europa?
Don't know that I'd bother, the MSFS flight models tend to be very
inaccurate. There is a very nice
XPlane model for the Europa family, but it is not released for public
consumption yet (Wayne??)
Ira
N224XS getting upholstery now
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Glide ratios |
09/02/2003 01:13:23 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/02/2003 01:13:23 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
--> Europa-List message posted by: CHUCK RHOADS <cfrhoads@yahoo.com>
I have recently purchased the new Garmin 3600 that works using an
integrated Palm PDA. It appears to be an excellent EFIS/GPS inexpensive
color system. I am needing the glide ratio so the 3600 can determine if I
am within gliding range of an airport. My plane is a trike XS.
This is going to be somewhat different for every builder depending on
finish, speed kit, prop type, feathering.
You'll have to measure your own. With a speed kit and feathering prop, I
believe 20:1 should be within reason.
I have not measured mine yet. Has anyone some personal data?
Ira N224XS
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Glide ratios |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
We have measured our mono-wheel XS with 912S several times. The first was
with a two bladed Whirlwind prop with the engine at idle throttle, prop full
fine. We got about 11:1 at about 65 knots best glide.
We later tested glide with the Airmaster prop, getting about 11:1 with the
engine at idle with the prop full coarse, again with a best glide of about 65
kts. With the engine off and the prop feathered, we got a glide ratio of about
13:1, with the best glide much higher than before, up around 85 kts.
These were all with a short wing XS, mono-wheel, with the factory speed
kit. We cruise 140 kts at 5.3 gph, and the plane flies hands off with equal
weight in both seats, so I don't believe we have a particularly dirty
airframe.
These numbers are lower than the 16:1 numbers I heard claimed. I have
heard from at least one other XS builder who has measured the glide ratio on
his XS, who got very similar numbers (i.e. around 10.5 - 11:1).
regards,
Terry Seaver
N135TD
irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: CHUCK RHOADS <cfrhoads@yahoo.com>
>
> I have recently purchased the new Garmin 3600 that works using an
> integrated Palm PDA. It appears to be an excellent EFIS/GPS inexpensive
> color system. I am needing the glide ratio so the 3600 can determine if I
> am within gliding range of an airport. My plane is a trike XS.
>
> This is going to be somewhat different for every builder depending on
> finish, speed kit, prop type, feathering.
> You'll have to measure your own. With a speed kit and feathering prop, I
> believe 20:1 should be within reason.
> I have not measured mine yet. Has anyone some personal data?
>
> Ira N224XS
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Glide ratios |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin@btopenworld.com>
I totally agree with your figures. I tested my mono XS with Airmaster Prop
engine at idle and 70kts. I decided that 2nm/1000' was a practical rule of
thumb.
regards,
Mike Parkin (G-JULZ)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Seaver" <terrys@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Glide ratios
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
>
> We have measured our mono-wheel XS with 912S several times. The first
was
> with a two bladed Whirlwind prop with the engine at idle throttle, prop
full
> fine. We got about 11:1 at about 65 knots best glide.
> We later tested glide with the Airmaster prop, getting about 11:1 with
the
> engine at idle with the prop full coarse, again with a best glide of about
65
> kts. With the engine off and the prop feathered, we got a glide ratio of
about
> 13:1, with the best glide much higher than before, up around 85 kts.
> These were all with a short wing XS, mono-wheel, with the factory speed
> kit. We cruise 140 kts at 5.3 gph, and the plane flies hands off with
equal
> weight in both seats, so I don't believe we have a particularly dirty
> airframe.
> These numbers are lower than the 16:1 numbers I heard claimed. I have
> heard from at least one other XS builder who has measured the glide ratio
on
> his XS, who got very similar numbers (i.e. around 10.5 - 11:1).
>
> regards,
> Terry Seaver
> N135TD
>
>
> irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu wrote:
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
> >
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: CHUCK RHOADS <cfrhoads@yahoo.com>
> >
> > I have recently purchased the new Garmin 3600 that works using an
> > integrated Palm PDA. It appears to be an excellent EFIS/GPS inexpensive
> > color system. I am needing the glide ratio so the 3600 can determine if
I
> > am within gliding range of an airport. My plane is a trike XS.
> >
> > This is going to be somewhat different for every builder depending on
> > finish, speed kit, prop type, feathering.
> > You'll have to measure your own. With a speed kit and feathering prop,
I
> > believe 20:1 should be within reason.
> > I have not measured mine yet. Has anyone some personal data?
> >
> > Ira N224XS
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Glide ratios |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin@btopenworld.com>
Do you really think you can glide 20nms from 6000ft. I remember some wooden
gliders that couldn't do that - and have some spare left to field land.
regards,
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: <irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Glide ratios
> --> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: CHUCK RHOADS <cfrhoads@yahoo.com>
>
> I have recently purchased the new Garmin 3600 that works using an
> integrated Palm PDA. It appears to be an excellent EFIS/GPS inexpensive
> color system. I am needing the glide ratio so the 3600 can determine if I
> am within gliding range of an airport. My plane is a trike XS.
>
> This is going to be somewhat different for every builder depending on
> finish, speed kit, prop type, feathering.
> You'll have to measure your own. With a speed kit and feathering prop, I
> believe 20:1 should be within reason.
> I have not measured mine yet. Has anyone some personal data?
>
>
> Ira N224XS
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Glide ratios |
09/02/2003 03:23:56 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/02/2003 03:23:56 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Parkin"
<Mikenjulie.Parkin@btopenworld.com>
I totally agree with your figures. I tested my mono XS with Airmaster
Prop
engine at idle and 70kts. I decided that 2nm/1000' was a practical rule
of
thumb.
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
> With the engine off and the prop feathered, we got a glide ratio of
> about 13:1, with the best glide much higher than before, up around 85
kts.
> These were all with a short wing XS, mono-wheel, with the factory speed
> kit. We cruise 140 kts at 5.3 gph, and the plane flies hands off with
equal
> weight in both seats, so I don't believe we have a particularly dirty
airframe.
> These numbers are lower than the 16:1 numbers I heard claimed. I
have
> heard from at least one other XS builder who has measured the glide
ratio on
> his XS, who got very similar numbers (i.e. around 10.5 - 11:1).
I guess I'll have to talk to my optimistic buddy. Terry: did you get
enough data points to draw the polar?
Does anyone have some personal experience with comparable glide data for
the long wing?
Ira
N224XS XS Trike MG (only short wings so far)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Confessions of a doorlatch hacker |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>> Maybe we should have a bit of fun with an "I've made the most stupid
mistake" section on the Europa Club Web Site??? :-) Only those prepared
to
laugh at themselves should enter!
Sorry, but I don't think you've got enough space on the web site to
cover my mistakes :)
I like the idea because that's how we all learn.
Tony
Message 13
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
Chuck writes,
"You are correct in that the automotive GPS programs come as standard; however,
Hangar B-17 has come out with an excellent program. I have been trying to
install my program with Windows XP and have had a few problems, I called them
today and a new release to fix the problem for the Garmin 3600 should be
complete before the week is over. Check them out at www.HangerB17.com
Chuck R"
I have just visited Hangar B-17 as you suggested and could not find any reference
to the program you mention. It seems as if their software is for Palm PDA's
am I missing something?
Regards,
Erich Trombley
A028
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Glide ratios |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
In a message dated 9/2/2003 10:13:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu writes:
> This is going to be somewhat different for every builder depending on
> finish, speed kit, prop type, feathering.
> You'll have to measure your own. With a speed kit and feathering prop, I
> believe 20:1 should be within reason.
> I have not measured mine yet. Has anyone some personal data?
>
>
From what I have seen, I think that 20:1 is not realistic for the short wing.
At sea level, that would be a sink rate at 60 knots of 304 fpm. I suspect the
glide ratio of the short wing is more in the 10 to 12 range. Just an educated
guess.
Dave
A227
Mini U2
Message 15
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| Subject: | Confessions of a doorlatch hacker |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey@btinternet.com>
Nor my mistakes, Tony :-) !!
Are we on our own here? This idea grabs me as being rather fun and, as you
point out, very educational. When we did the ThrustSSC site we had great fun
with humour at our own expenses - is this to be the Europa equivalent? :-)
Come on, chaps (and chapesses)! Send in your worst mistakes. I'm only
plane-building this weekend (fitting that fuel tank) so there's plenty of
time for adding to the Club web site...
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony S.
Krzyzewski
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Confessions of a doorlatch hacker
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>> Maybe we should have a bit of fun with an "I've made the most stupid
mistake" section on the Europa Club Web Site??? :-) Only those prepared
to
laugh at themselves should enter!
Sorry, but I don't think you've got enough space on the web site to
cover my mistakes :)
I like the idea because that's how we all learn.
Tony
Message 16
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| Subject: | Ignition choices |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
What has most of you wound up with for your ignition. I was thinking of the standard
ignition (off-mag,R & L, both and start) but it has been suggested there
might be a better way. I would assume same set up but with a push button for
start.
Al Stills
A095
Message 17
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| Subject: | looking for builder in northwest USA |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ken" <ken@soundsuckers.com>
I am thinking of starting my second plane and looking real hard at the
XS Europe but would like to see one in construction and possible take a
flight in one before I make up my mind.
Would you build it again or fly something else. My first plane is a RV
6A that I finished 2 years ago and still flying it.
I am not afraid of glass work had 30 years of body shop experience But
to many planes are not what the factory says they are, My next choice
will be a RV-9A
I am in southeastern Oregon and can fly pretty much anywhere to see and
feel my next project.
Ken S.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Ignition choices |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
That is what I used. It adds a level of security to my plane. Security is
an issue at some airports now days.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote" FLYING now !
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills"
<astills785@earthlink.net>
>
> What has most of you wound up with for your ignition. I was thinking of
the standard ignition (off-mag,R & L, both and start) but it has been
suggested there might be a better way. I would assume same set up but with a
push button for start.
> Al Stills
> A095
>
>
Message 19
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--> Europa-List message posted by: CHUCK RHOADS <cfrhoads@yahoo.com>
The web sight that works for Hangar B-17 is http://www.hangarb17.com/home.html
Good luck.
Chuck Rhoads
Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley
Chuck writes,
"You are correct in that the automotive GPS programs come as standard; however,
Hangar B-17 has come out with an excellent program. I have been trying to
install my program with Windows XP and have had a few problems, I called them
today and a new release to fix the problem for the Garmin 3600 should be
complete before the week is over. Check them out at www.HangerB17.com
Chuck R"
I have just visited Hangar B-17 as you suggested and could not find any reference
to the program you mention. It seems as if their software is for Palm PDA's
am I missing something?
Regards,
Erich Trombley
A028
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Chuck Rhoads
cfrhoads@yahoo.com
(270) 788-9366
Rte 2 Box 73C
Hardinsburg, Ky 40143
---------------------------------
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Cameron <c.cameron@xtra.co.nz>
The Garmin 3600 IS a Palm PDA, with added GPS functionality.
Does anyone know how the GPS component interfaces to other applications? Can other
applications (like hangerb17 or gpspilot) access the GPS without extra development
effort?
>
> From: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
> Date: 2003/09/03 Wed AM 08:27:22 GMT+12:00
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Hangar B-17
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
>
>
> Chuck writes,
> "You are correct in that the automotive GPS programs come as standard; however,
> Hangar B-17 has come out with an excellent program. I have been trying to
> install my program with Windows XP and have had a few problems, I called them
> today and a new release to fix the problem for the Garmin 3600 should be
> complete before the week is over. Check them out at www.HangerB17.com
> Chuck R"
>
> I have just visited Hangar B-17 as you suggested and could not find any reference
to the program you mention. It seems as if their software is for Palm PDA's
am I missing something?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Erich Trombley
> A028
>
>
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Ignition choices |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
Al:
I'm using a push button for a starter with a toggle switch on either side
for each ignition. I will have a strategically placed link in the circuit
that can be removed from the plane when it is unattended for security.
Several circuits in addition to the ignition will be diasbled such as fuel
pumps so at least the plane won't be able to be flown away.
Steve Hagar
A143
> [Original Message]
> From: Alan Stills <astills785@earthlink.net>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/2/03 6:15:34 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Ignition choices
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills"
<astills785@earthlink.net>
>
> What has most of you wound up with for your ignition. I was thinking of
the standard ignition (off-mag,R & L, both and start) but it has been
suggested there might be a better way. I would assume same set up but with
a push button for start.
> Al Stills
> A095
>
>
>
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs@earthlink.net
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