Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:14 AM - Re: Europa aircraft number (Jeremy Davey)
2. 12:17 AM - Re: 1st Stupid Question (Jeremy Davey)
3. 02:30 AM - (owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com)
4. 05:05 AM - Re: electrics (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
5. 05:09 AM - Re: 1st Stupid Question (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
6. 05:23 AM - Re: 1st Stupid Question (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
7. 06:33 AM - Cowling-prop clearance (RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils))
8. 07:23 AM - Re: Cowling-prop clearance (Gerry Holland)
9. 08:19 AM - Re: Cowling-prop clearance (RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils))
10. 12:59 PM - Re: fuel pumps (Jeremy Davey)
11. 01:02 PM - Re: S-tec System 30 Autopilot (Jeremy Davey)
12. 02:10 PM - Re: Europa aircraft number (Rowland Carson)
13. 02:10 PM - Re: door modifications and Europa sweet sleeping (Rowland Carson)
14. 03:38 PM - Re: Exhaust stub (Paul McAllister)
15. 04:36 PM - Re: 1st Stupid Question (EuropaXSA279@aol.com)
16. 05:43 PM - Re: 1st Stupid Question (Rob Housman)
17. 06:45 PM - Re: 1st Stupid Question (Jeff Roberts)
18. 07:33 PM - Re: fuel pumps (Kevin Klinefelter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Europa aircraft number |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey@btinternet.com>
>>> Rick,
Does anyone have an idea of what number Europa the Europa factory is
shipping these days? I notice that many of the members who list on this site
use #??? for which Europa they have.
>>> They're just approaching number 1000...
Does anyone have a data base of completed and flying Europa's, not
necessarily each persons name and photo, but just an idea how many Europa's
are flying? and which versions.
>>> Please see the Europa Club web site at www.europaclub.org.uk
Should I 'ass u me' that as each upgrade and modification is made to the
Europa aircraft that all aircraft produced after this upgrade or mod, is
incorporated into the aircraft. There are a lot of great ideas and
suggestions on this list for meaniful improvements but how many are accepted
by the factory...any way to tell? For example the new door support mod that
is being discussed on the site recently, when will this show up as a part of
the aircraft being produced by Europa? or will it always be a mod we as
customers will always have to build.
>>> If there is a 'mandatory' mod, that is built into all subsequent kits
and the owners of previous kits are notified. If there is an 'optional' mod
(e.g. fuel drains in most countries are not mandatory), it is simply
advertised an optional extra. On top of the factory's mods, there are also
some commercially available mods (e.g. Graham Singleton's tailwheel and
firewall mods), there are the Europa Club mods (details free to all members)
covering popular enhancements like autopilots and capacitance fuel gauges,
there are individual mods that some owners are willing to share with the
community, and finally there are individual mods for which the owners guard
the secrets like they were state secrets (no names, no pack drill...).
Cheers,
Jeremy
Message 2
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| Subject: | 1st Stupid Question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey@btinternet.com>
Worth mentioning for the UK builders that Marineware sell a hand cleaner
that includes an abrasive that is specifically designed for getting resin
off skin.
It isn't cheap, but you only need one tube as you don't use it often.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland Carson
Subject: Re: Europa-List: 1st Stupid Question
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2003 09 13 08:58 -0400, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 9/12/2003 12:14:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>RobH@hyperion-ef.com writes:
>
> > What's the denatured alcohol for?
> >
>
>Cleaning up sissors and squeegees after using them on wet epoxy. Vinegar
>works too, especially if you happen to get resin on bare skin.
Folks - don't use ANY solvent in trying to remove epoxy from skin! If
you apply acetone or alcohol to epoxy on your skin, the solvent
immediately makes the epoxy much more mobile, right down to the
molecular level, I understand. This means that the epoxy-laden
solvent will migrate right into the surface layers of your skin where
you can't wash it off, and you don't want that to happen.
To get epoxy off skin, the best plan is to not get it on there in the
first place. Plan B is to use a hand cleaner such as Fast Orange,
Swarfega or similar, as soon as possible after the contamination. It
appears that the longer the epoxy is in contact with your skin, the
more likely you are to develop adverse reactions.
I also agree with other posters about the desirability of protecting
your mucous membranes with an organic-vapour mask. Even if you never
touch the epoxy, the vapours can set up an allergic reaction if you
let them play on those delicate tissues.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson PFA #16532 e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
| 630 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by:
De:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
Para:europa-list@matronics.com
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey"
>
> Worth mentioning for the UK builders that Marineware sell a hand cleaner
> that includes an abrasive that is specifically designed for getting resin
> off skin.
>
Although abrasive cleaners are better than solvents to clean the skin, they were
banned from industrial use many years ago in Denmark.
Reason being that they are abrasive and that means you create lots of small scratches
in the skin, leaving the epoxy to contact the raw tissue before being washed
off and leaving the skin damaged and more susceptible to allergy next time
around.
A salesman from a company that supplied the airline I worked for, told me then,
that his company had experimented with many different substances to find the
best general purpose handcleaner.
They found that the best solution was very simple; vegetable cooking oil or the
like will dissolve most types of dirt, to be washed off with your choice of soap!
As this solution did not appeal to the company, he was told not to tell anybody
as they wouldn't be able to sell their products....
I have not tried this on epoxy, but i use soap and water before it hardens, works
just fine, especially if I use a good barrier cream before starting work.
Alex,#529
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Steve,
Try <A HREF="www.digikey.com">www.digikey.com. They have just about everything electrical. Also, any
good electrical supply house like Graybar will have #4 AWG ring terminals.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 1st Stupid Question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 9/13/2003 11:58:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rlborger@mac.com writes:
> BUT, the rotary cutter won't cut peel ply worth a hoot. Back to
> shears for that.
>
Bob,
Are you cutting wetted out cloth with the a rotary cutter? I started to get
one of those, but changed my mind because I figured they would get messy if I
tried to cut wet cloth with them and I'd end up using sissors anyway.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 1st Stupid Question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 9/13/2003 6:19:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rowil@clara.net writes:
> Folks - don't use ANY solvent in trying to remove epoxy from skin! If
> you apply acetone or alcohol to epoxy on your skin, the solvent
> immediately makes the epoxy much more mobile, right down to the
> molecular level, I understand. This means that the epoxy-laden
> solvent will migrate right into the surface layers of your skin where
> you can't wash it off, and you don't want that to happen.
>
Which is why you use vinegar to clean resin off your skin because vinegar
doens't make the resin penetrate your skin. It stinks, though, so it's best to
not get resin on your skin to start with or people will think you work at a
pickle factory. Use gloves.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 7
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| Subject: | Cowling-prop clearance |
--> Europa-List message posted by: RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils)
What is the minimal space needed between the back of the prop hub and the
front of the cowling to insure clearance when yanking and banking?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling-prop clearance |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
>
> What is the minimal space needed between the back of the prop hub and the
> front of the cowling to insure clearance when yanking and banking?
>
The book calls for 5mm
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling-prop clearance |
--> Europa-List message posted by: RobNeils@aimcomm.com (Rob Neils)
I asked:
> > What is the minimal space needed between the back of the prop hub and
the
> > front of the cowling to insure clearance when yanking and banking?
> >
First answer:
> The book calls for 5mm
Has anyone experimented with less and found it to work?
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey@btinternet.com>
If you're going for 5052 and AN fittings it might be worth talking to the
factory when ordering your engine and fittings to see if they can do pumps
with appropriate fittings.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Singleton
Subject: Europa-List: fuel pumps
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton
<graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 12/09/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "paul stewart"
<paul-d.stewart@virgin.net>
>It would appear that the fuel pumps supplied with the engine require rubber
>hose pushed over barba and secured with hose clamps (exactly what I'm
trying
>to get away from). I know there are many out there who are going the same
way
>with fuel systems - anyone addressed it in relation to 914 fuel pumps.
>Also can't
>work out why I've also got a facet pump supplied by Europa.
Paul
You don't need a Facet with a 914. Connecting to the automotive style
rotary pumps might be possible by crimping on Teflon lined hose with
crimped on AN fittings at the other end. Bit OTT though. I have no better
ideas yet. Brain hurts!
Graham
---
Message 11
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| Subject: | S-tec System 30 Autopilot |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey@btinternet.com>
Mike,
Apologies for the slow response - it's been a long week and I'm only just
catching up...
I'm fitting the DigiTrack 2-axis and am planning on fitting the pitch servo
behind the cockpit module, driving a pushrod forward alongside the steam
pipe - sorry, pitch pushrod - and connecting to the pitch torque tube via a
longer AN5 bolt in single-shear through the existing lugs.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike toft
Subject: Europa-List: S-tec System 30 Autopilot
--> Europa-List message posted by: "mike toft" <watervet@mweb.co.za>
Hi All,
I am fitting the S-Tec System 30 Autopilot to my XS Tri-Gear - that is the 2
axis autopilot - has anyone fitted this to their Europa - and if so what
bracket system did you use as the kit doesn't come with any installation
system. The roll control I am going to fit under the pilot's seat with a
horn attached to the CS05 Torque tube - using a hatch cut through the top of
the seat - but I'm not sure quite where to attach the altitude hold servo -
any ideas?
Regards
Mike Toft
XS Trigear 510
South Africa
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Europa aircraft number |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2003 09 14 01:06 -0400, Rick Heis wrote:
>Does anyone have an idea of what number Europa the Europa factory is
>shipping these days? I notice that many of the members who list on
>this site use #??? for which Europa they have.
Rick - you'll no doubt also have noticed that the US office and the
parent company in England have separate numbering systems; the former
puts an "A" prefix on all its kit numbers. In addition there are
various factory demonstrator machines which do not have kit numbers
in either of those series - although some previous demonstrator
airframes have had kit (or "customer") numbers attached to them when
sold on to private owners.
I've been keeping tabs on all Europas everywhere as part of my Europa
Club membership secretary job, and I make some of the results of that
work available on the Club website, as others have already pointed
out.
From time to time I get updated lists from both Kirkbymoorside and
Lakeland, but as you might imagine it's quite tedious cross-checking
all the entries.
A somewhat pernicious habit seems to have crept in recently - the
factory appear to have started allocating a new kit number when a
part-completed kit changes hands. This may be needed in order to
associate the new person with a new "customer number" but if true
that shows poor database design. The airframe identifier should not
be confused with the owner identifier! It also means that if you try
to deduce the number of kits sold from the current highest kit
number, you will get an artifically high number. (If anyone from the
factory wants to correct me on that, I have an example they can
explain!)
>Does anyone have a data base of completed and flying Europa's
See the Club website. Do you find the selection of info in the
"flying aircraft" and "under construction" tabulations useful? I try
to ensure that all that sort of info is included in my database, from
which those web pages are created. I have on occasion known about
first flights, etc long before the factory! Note that the former
table is actually of all Europas that are known to have flown; some
of them have since been written off. Likewise, the latter table is
not of all kits sold, only those which have acquired a national
registration mark.
More detail is available in the goodies CD which goes to all new
Europa Club members. Ask me off-list if you want to know more about
the Club.
Hope this helps.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (630 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: door modifications and Europa sweet sleeping |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2003 09 09 08:50 +0200, =?iso-8859-2?Q?Stanislav_=A9vec?= wrote:
>bad door design made by Europa factory
Stanislav - sorry to not have responded sooner on this; you seem to
have stirred up a lot of adverse reactions!
I agree that there are some aspects of the Europa which are not
satisfactory in service, and that there are some features which don't
appeal to everyone. However, I think we should remember that the
aircraft was designed by a very small team, to answer one person's
"wish list" for his personal ideal aircraft. Every aeroplane is a
collection of compromises flying in formation. For me, Ivan, Don and
the team made most of the right compromises in their original design,
and the fact that so many more than the original production run of 10
have been sold shows that other people agree.
I wonder what you are comparing the Europa with? Do you have much
experience of other kit aircraft? If so, which ones are better to
build than Europa and in what way?
>Europa builders are loosing time and money to correct shoddy piece
>of work made by Europa factory
I think that is an unfairly strong criticism. Many of the real
problems that emerged in the early days were corrected by the factory
free of charge. What we've got now is not shoddy work or design, but
rather refinements to a basically sound package. I have had faulty
parts (usually made by a sub-contractor, not the Europa factory)
which were replaced without question. And how many factory-built
certified aircraft go through their lives without Airworthiness
Directives or other modifications? If you want shoddy design and
implementation, how about the Cessna seat-rail lock that tried to
kill me on takeoff for my first solo? Must have been a lot more of
those sold than Europas!
>I can not understand, why Europa is doing nothing at all to correct it
From other recent postings, looks like maybe they WERE doing
something! Of course, we don't hear every little detail of all the
work that goes on. And like any commercial firm, the factory needs to
manage its resources for best outcome. It's possible that if the
factory had in the past responded to fix every single customer
complaint free of charge that they would have run out of resources to
actually continue producing kits and supporting builders - I'm sure
none of us would wish that to happen!
I feel that maybe all this is a bit like the weather in the British
Isles - we have hardly any of the awful extremes of climate endured
by many other places, but still we find plenty to moan about!
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson PFA #16532 e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
| 630 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust stub |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Paul,
I have just uncrated my engine this weekend and discovered that mine is the
same as yours. I'd be interested to hear from others out there to help
determine if Rotax have changed the design of the silencer. If this is the
case I suspect we will need a different exhaust pipe.
Paul McAllister - 363
http://europa363.versadev.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul stewart" <paul-d.stewart@virgin.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Exhaust stub
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "paul stewart"
<paul-d.stewart@virgin.net>
>
> The 914 engine installation says to TIG weld a stub into the tapered
silencer outlet to allow the down pipe to clamped on. The silencer on my
recently delivered engine does not have a tapered outlet, rather a parallel
sided on with 4 slits on it. The piece of stub pipe is significantly smaller
than the outlet and will require a large amount of weld to fill the gap. In
addition the slots in the silencer outlet would appear to also need welding
up as they are longer than the stub. If this rambling means anything to
anyone can you tell me if this is a correct state of affairs.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul Stewart #432
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 1st Stupid Question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA279@aol.com
Hello John:
Well, I have taken your shopping list to heart and have already purchased
some of those Items in the last few days. You had asked if I ordered the quick
build control surfaces. Yes, I did, along with the newly available quick build
cockpit module.
I noted that your list did not include an epoxy pump. Can I do without this
$250.00 to $450.00 gadget? Given the options I purchased, perhaps I don't need
one? I looked at the plans for the scale. It looks a bit crude... Then
again... I Know less than nothing at this point!
The shop over the garage is now clean and new work table constructed... But
it is far from looking like an airplane factory.
Thanks
Brian
Message 16
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| Subject: | 1st Stupid Question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.com>
Although many builders use an epoxy pump, a far cheaper and probably more
exact means of getting the mix correct is to use a digital scale. In the US
various manufacturers offer suitable electronic scales with 100 to 200 gram
maximum capacity for around US$100.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
EuropaXSA279@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: 1st Stupid Question
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA279@aol.com
Hello John:
Well, I have taken your shopping list to heart and have already purchased
some of those Items in the last few days. You had asked if I ordered the
quick
build control surfaces. Yes, I did, along with the newly available quick
build
cockpit module.
I noted that your list did not include an epoxy pump. Can I do without this
$250.00 to $450.00 gadget? Given the options I purchased, perhaps I don't
need
one? I looked at the plans for the scale. It looks a bit crude... Then
again... I Know less than nothing at this point!
The shop over the garage is now clean and new work table constructed... But
it is far from looking like an airplane factory.
Thanks
Brian
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 1st Stupid Question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
on 9/14/03 7:42 PM, Rob Housman at robh@hyperion-ef.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.com>
>
> Although many builders use an epoxy pump, a far cheaper and probably more
> exact means of getting the mix correct is to use a digital scale. In the US
> various manufacturers offer suitable electronic scales with 100 to 200 gram
> maximum capacity for around US$100.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
> A070
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> EuropaXSA279@aol.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: 1st Stupid Question
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA279@aol.com
>
> Hello John:
> Well, I have taken your shopping list to heart and have already purchased
> some of those Items in the last few days. You had asked if I ordered the
> quick
> build control surfaces. Yes, I did, along with the newly available quick
> build
> cockpit module.
>
> I noted that your list did not include an epoxy pump. Can I do without this
> $250.00 to $450.00 gadget? Given the options I purchased, perhaps I don't
> need
> one? I looked at the plans for the scale. It looks a bit crude... Then
> again... I Know less than nothing at this point!
>
> The shop over the garage is now clean and new work table constructed... But
> it is far from looking like an airplane factory.
> Thanks
> Brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
Brian,
Rob is correct. You will get a mixing chart from Europa that shows the
ratios of resin & hardener. I bought an Ohaus CS 200 from a local scale
company I found in the yellow pages. It is the best and most accurate way
and was about $100.00.
Regards,
Jeff
A258 Airframe almost done.
jeff@rmmm.net
615-459-1085
Message 18
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
I found Aeroquip -6 fuel line fit well over the fuel pumps "barbs" on the
outlet side, with a hose clamp. Then AN fittings T back into one line,
aluminum, to the firewall.
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of paul stewart
Subject: Europa-List: fuel pumps
--> Europa-List message posted by: "paul stewart"
<paul-d.stewart@virgin.net>
Have just taken delivery of engine (914) and FF kit. A couple of questions
spring to mind (many more will follow I'm sure). I have been trying all
along to replace the Europa standard fuel lines with aluminium line and AN
or NPT fittings. It would appear that the fuel pumps supplied with the
engine require rubber hose pushed over barba and secured with hose clamps
(exactly what I'm trying to get away from). I know there are many out there
who are going the same way with fuel systems - anyone addressed it in
relation to 914 fuel pumps. Also can't work out why I've also got a facet
pump supplied by Europa.
Any thoughts
Regards
Paul Stewart #432
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