Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:14 AM - Re: Worrying Conundrum (Alain Chabert)
2. 01:00 AM - Re: Worrying Conundrum (Peter Davis)
3. 03:37 AM - Fw: Re: [c-a] Terra Radio Question (Graham Singleton)
4. 05:41 AM - Re: Hobbs switch (Troy Maynor)
5. 06:57 AM - Re: Peel Ply on Root Rib (rlborger)
6. 07:07 AM - Re: Electronic builders log (rlborger)
7. 08:58 AM - Re: Re: Peel Ply on Root Rib (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
8. 09:14 AM - fuselarge support frame needed (ivor.phillips)
9. 09:19 AM - HOBBS meter (Erich Trombley)
10. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Peel Ply on Root Rib (Simon Smith)
11. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: Peel Ply on Root Rib (Rob Housman)
12. 11:30 AM - Re: Re: Peel Ply on Root Rib (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
13. 02:17 PM - Re: Mini U2 - landing lights (Jac van Heeswijk)
14. 04:20 PM - Re: Mini U2 - landing lights (Paul McAllister)
15. 07:12 PM - Uprated Starter Motor (MJKTuck@cs.com)
16. 07:45 PM - Re: Hobbs switch (n3eu@comcast.net)
17. 07:45 PM - Re: Hobbs switch (n3eu@comcast.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Worrying Conundrum |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alain Chabert" <alainchabert@wanadoo.fr>
Hi Peter,
I have also the same symptom, a lot of time, and I think it is ice carb.
Not a problem.
I never stop the engine, and the problem gone away when ice go through the
carb with a "blup blup".
Regards.
Alain
#275, 912 UL with XS cooling
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Peter Davis
Envoy : jeudi 16 octobre 2003 18:48
: Europa-List
Objet : Europa-List: Worrying Conundrum
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <peterdavis@ntlworld.com>
Just to say thanks for all the feedback on this one. A number of
possibilities have been suggested and if I get to the bottom of it I will
'publish'.
Regards,
Peter
(#152; 912UL Classic)
mailto:peterdavis@ntlworld.com
This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
viruses.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Worrying Conundrum |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <peterdavis@ntlworld.com>
Hi Alain,
I have booked my plane in with Conrad Beale (UK's Rotax agent's son) for a
200 hour 'top end' check out to inspect the valves and rocker arms as
suggested in a Service Instruction and discussed the 'Burp' with him. He
seemed to think that carb icing on one side was quite a likely reason,
especially as the humming cleared after the Burp.
When the cold air plenum is used he strongly recommends the use of Rotax's
manifold warming system to protect against carb ice. I suspect this is going
to be one of those things that never get fully understood, but as long as it
doesn't happen again I will be happy.
Regards,
Peter
mailto:peterdavis@ntlworld.com
This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
viruses.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alain
Chabert
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Worrying Conundrum
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alain Chabert" <alainchabert@wanadoo.fr>
Hi Peter,
I have also the same symptom, a lot of time, and I think it is ice carb.
Not a problem.
I never stop the engine, and the problem gone away when ice go through the
carb with a "blup blup".
Regards.
Alain
#275, 912 UL with XS cooling
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]De la part de Peter Davis
Envoy : jeudi 16 octobre 2003 18:48
: Europa-List
Objet : Europa-List: Worrying Conundrum
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <peterdavis@ntlworld.com>
Just to say thanks for all the feedback on this one. A number of
possibilities have been suggested and if I get to the bottom of it I will
'publish'.
Regards,
Peter
(#152; 912UL Classic)
mailto:peterdavis@ntlworld.com
This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
viruses.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: [c-a] Terra Radio Question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
>http://www.freeflightsystems.com/docs/terraffs.pdf
People with Terra avionics need to check this site re repairs etc. Things
are getting difficult it seems
Graham
---
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Bob at Aeroelectrics recommends using his double throw switch. It can run
the Hobbs with the engine running and a "master on reminder"/no oil pressure
light when not running. FWIW.
Troy Maynor -N120EU
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Hagar
Subject: Europa-List: Hobbs switch
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
This has probably been discussed a million times before. Typically when I
am involved in a certain section of the build I become focused and tend not
to assimilate some of the other stuff coming over the web. I need to
install a switch for the Hobbs meter. The first thought is to put a T
where the oil pressure transducer is and plug in the switch upstream of the
transducer. Are there any other pressure ports on the 914 that I'm not
aware of? What have others done to ensure accurate recording of engine
hours with the Hobbs?
Thanks,
Steve A143
Mesa, AZ
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs@earthlink.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Peel Ply on Root Rib |
--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
Simon, and others who are caught with this problem:
Before you grind away for hours on end, try slipping a chisel or putty
knife under the edge of the layup. The layup doesn't stick to the peel
ply. Take it from someone who had the same experience, the layup peels
off peel ply just like peel ply peels off a layup.
For all you folks out there who have never seen the white peel ply: It
is often without that miniscule telltale red thread. This stuff is as
transparent as a glass layup after it has been applied and has cured.
And the factory doesn't leave an edge hanging out making removal easier
either.
You better check your wing roots along with your flap closeouts and
aileron closeouts on the pre-build tail kit because if you didn't pull
off a layer of transparent peel ply, it's still there and it's not good
to have it there. You MUST remove this stuff as the layups done over
it do not stick properly!! You can peel the layup off of it very
easily.
> --> Europa-List message posted by:
> "Simon Smith" < jodel@nildram.co.uk >
>
> I've just looked at my wings (which were already done when
> I bought my part built kit) and found the peel ply! Oh well,
> out with the power file!
>
> Simon
> 504 G-BZTN
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL about 40%
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic builders log |
--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
Brian,
I use MS Word (MS Office) on a Mac. Just type in your info:
date/time/activity and drop in digital pics as you like. I'm sure that
Word Perfect, Star Office, Open Office (Free for the Mac and Linux
systems - http://www.openoffice.org) or any number of Adobe products
would do as well.
My EAA Tech Counselor asked to see my builders long and he loved it.
Said that it would be no problem showing it to the FAA inspector.
> I would like to know is one of you fine folk can recommend
> an Electronic builders log, perhaps in Excel or Access format?
> My assumption is that type of log is legal with the FAA and
> would be great for attaching documenting photos.
> As always, opinion and suggestion are GREATLY appreciated.
>
> Brian Skelly XSA276
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Peel Ply on Root Rib |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
To all and especially the factory,
Does all this input about peel ply beg the question? If peel ply is available
in bright green, then why is the factory using a peel ply that has no
noticeable markings on it, blends in as well as a layup, and they don't leave a
tab
for one to pull it off with? Why would you want to continue with something that
you know will tick off your Customers?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Message 8
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| Subject: | fuselarge support frame needed |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
Hi Guys
This is just a shot in the dark, but has anybody in the UK a Fuselage support frame
for a XS surplus to requirements
Willing to part with money and collect, (Who said building a Europa was a cheap!!!
way to fly)
Regards
Ivor Phillips
London Area
XS486
do not archive
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
Steve wrote, "This has probably been discussed a million times before. Typically
when I am involved in a certain section of the build I become focused and tend
not to assimilate some of the other stuff coming over the web. I need to install
a switch for the Hobbs meter".
I have installed a Rocky Mountain u-Monitor that is an all in one engine monitor.
The unit uses oil pressure as a trigger for engine run time. The Rotax oil
pressure transducer was replaced with the Rocky Mountain transducer thus eliminating
a dedicated oil pressure switch.
Regards,
Erich Trombley
A028
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Peel Ply on Root Rib |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
Hi,
After speaking to Neville, the power file was just used to get down to the
peel ply and then, as you say the rest was pried off with a chisel. Total
time to remove and do a new lay-up is about 2 hrs per wing so I'm a lot
happier than I was when I first saw the red threads!!!
Simon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rlborger
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Peel Ply on Root Rib
--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
Simon, and others who are caught with this problem:
Before you grind away for hours on end, try slipping a chisel or putty
knife under the edge of the layup. The layup doesn't stick to the peel
ply. Take it from someone who had the same experience, the layup peels
off peel ply just like peel ply peels off a layup.
For all you folks out there who have never seen the white peel ply: It
is often without that miniscule telltale red thread. This stuff is as
transparent as a glass layup after it has been applied and has cured.
And the factory doesn't leave an edge hanging out making removal easier
either.
You better check your wing roots along with your flap closeouts and
aileron closeouts on the pre-build tail kit because if you didn't pull
off a layer of transparent peel ply, it's still there and it's not good
to have it there. You MUST remove this stuff as the layups done over
it do not stick properly!! You can peel the layup off of it very
easily.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Peel Ply on Root Rib |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
"Tick off your customers" Mike? More likely tick off your customers'
surviving friends and relatives (those that were not in the plane with you
when the wings went in a direction different from the fuselage).
My last (as in, previous - I fear that this one still won't be the last)
post on this subject was January 30, 2001, and that's not a typo - it was
almost three years ago. Many moons prior to that I had advised the factory
that I found invisible peel ply exactly where it is still being found. I
was assured by the factory when I first brought this to their attention that
invisible peel ply was no longer being used.
This is very likely a flight safety issue and the factory has been, for lack
of a stronger word, irresponsible in ignoring numerous builder complaints
about invisible peel ply. Simply adding some text to the manual advising
that there is peel ply to be removed (lacking in my manual) is not
sufficient when the peel ply can not be seen.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
DuaneFamly@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Peel Ply on Root Rib
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
To all and especially the factory,
Does all this input about peel ply beg the question? If peel ply is
available
in bright green, then why is the factory using a peel ply that has no
noticeable markings on it, blends in as well as a layup, and they don't
leave a tab
for one to pull it off with? Why would you want to continue with something
that
you know will tick off your Customers?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Peel Ply on Root Rib |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Please, I'd like to hear from John, Neville, and Andy on this matter. Why
would it NOT be changed?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Mini U2 - landing lights |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jac van Heeswijk" <jac.vanheeswijk@hetnet.nl>
.
Graham, just thinking about navlights and not yet having closed my (XS)
wings I might be interested in your wing tip light covers, so put me on your
email list please.
Regards, Jack (from the waterbeds, you remember?)
>
> Thinking about Nav lights, I've made a few preliminary wing tip light
> covers. Paul McA has fitted them, I haven't yet spent enough time learning
> how to set up a web site, time seems to go faster for some reason?!?
> If anyone wants to see the results email me directly and I will send some
> pictures.
> Graham
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Mini U2 - landing lights |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all
Grahams wing tip light covers can be fitted after the wing has been closed
if need be. I will put up some pictures on my web site in the next week or
two.
Paul
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jac van Heeswijk"
<jac.vanheeswijk@hetnet.nl>
>
> .
> Graham, just thinking about navlights and not yet having closed my (XS)
> wings I might be interested in your wing tip light covers, so put me on
your
> email list please.
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Uprated Starter Motor |
--> Europa-List message posted by: MJKTuck@cs.com
Hi Folks,
Anyone fitted the new optional uprated Rotax starter motor?
Does anyone have an idea how much it costs?
Regards,
Martin Tuck
N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Hobbs switch |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> This has probably been discussed a million times before. Typically when I
> am involved in a certain section of the build I become focused and tend not
> to assimilate some of the other stuff coming over the web. I need to
> install a switch for the Hobbs meter. The first thought is to put a T
> where the oil pressure transducer is and plug in the switch upstream of the
> transducer. Are there any other pressure ports on the 914 that I'm not
> aware of? What have others done to ensure accurate recording of engine
> hours with the Hobbs?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve A143
> Mesa, AZ
Why do you really need to know accurate Hobbs time? As an amateur-built aircraft
in the U.S., you're not bound in the slightest degree by any run time of any
component anywhere. Admittedly, were you to sell the aircraft, airframe/engine
time will be of interest to a buyer and thus how determined, but big deal.
So, my "Hobbs" time is from that which a Taskem digital RPM display actually records
in nonvolatile memory. Good 'enuf!
The only place to tap into oil pressure is at the pressure transducer on all Rotax
91X, or the feed line to the 914 turbocharger. But the grizzled old aircraft
mechanic in me says you do that you introduce a point of failure in a critical
airworthiness system. It's not like there's a Service Bulletin on my other
airplane specifically on this, which on failure causes oil to be spilled inside
the aircraft cabin, until there ain't nuthin' in the sump!
Thus preferable would be to simply read voltage at the Rotax transducer, and glomp
a transistor to fire a stock Hobbs meter. It's a simple circuit, but if a
builder can't do that, I think it best to at least shop for something that will
record elapsed hours when fed a voltage, like when master is on -- even a stock
Hobbs does that. It won't be exact engine hours, but so what.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Hobbs switch |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> This has probably been discussed a million times before. Typically when I
> am involved in a certain section of the build I become focused and tend not
> to assimilate some of the other stuff coming over the web. I need to
> install a switch for the Hobbs meter. The first thought is to put a T
> where the oil pressure transducer is and plug in the switch upstream of the
> transducer. Are there any other pressure ports on the 914 that I'm not
> aware of? What have others done to ensure accurate recording of engine
> hours with the Hobbs?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve A143
> Mesa, AZ
Why do you really need to know accurate Hobbs time? As an amateur-built aircraft
in the U.S., you're not bound in the slightest degree by any run time of any
component anywhere. Admittedly, were you to sell the aircraft, airframe/engine
time will be of interest to a buyer and thus how determined, but big deal.
So, my "Hobbs" time is from that which a Taskem digital RPM display actually records
in nonvolatile memory. Good 'enuf!
The only place to tap into oil pressure is at the pressure transducer on all Rotax
91X, or the feed line to the 914 turbocharger. But the grizzled old aircraft
mechanic in me says you do that you introduce a point of failure in a critical
airworthiness system. It's not like there's a Service Bulletin on my other
airplane specifically on this, which on failure causes oil to be spilled inside
the aircraft cabin, until there ain't nuthin' in the sump!
Thus preferable would be to simply read voltage at the Rotax transducer, and glomp
a transistor to fire a stock Hobbs meter. It's a simple circuit, but if a
builder can't do that, I think it best to at least shop for something that will
record elapsed hours when fed a voltage, like when master is on -- even a stock
Hobbs does that. It won't be exact engine hours, but so what.
Regards,
Fred F.
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