Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:15 AM - WLAS... (Matt Dralle)
2. 02:13 AM - filler (Graham Singleton)
3. 04:22 AM - club mods (Mike)
4. 04:22 AM - Re: pip pin covers/mods (Mike)
5. 04:22 AM - Re: pip pin covers/mods (Mike)
6. 05:39 AM - Re: Spar Guide (Richard Holder)
7. 08:00 AM - Re: Spar Guide (R.C.Harrison)
8. 10:34 AM - Re: Spar Guide (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
9. 12:39 PM - Re: Classic closed trailer for sale (Dari Sagar)
10. 01:57 PM - TP16 Alignment (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
11. 02:09 PM - Wed Lunchtime Fly-in (bryan allsop)
12. 02:53 PM - Re: TP16 Alignment (Rob Housman)
13. 02:56 PM - Re: Wed Lunchtime Fly-in (R.C.Harrison)
14. 03:06 PM - Re: TP16 Alignment (R.C.Harrison)
15. 03:22 PM - Spar Guide (Alan Stills)
16. 03:40 PM - Re: Wed Lunchtime Fly-in (Richard Holder)
17. 04:20 PM - roll trim tab and servo installation (Fred R. Klein)
18. 05:04 PM - Re: roll trim tab and servo installation (Bob Jacobsen)
19. 06:32 PM - Re: roll trim tab and servo installation (Troy Maynor)
20. 08:18 PM - Spar guide placement (Fergus Kyle)
21. 11:21 PM - Re: Spar guide placement (R.C.Harrison)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Below are some of the nice things people have been saying about the Lists
in that little message box on the Contribution form! Thank you to everyone
that has made a Contribution thus far and for all the great
feedback! Please know that I really appreciate the comments and support!!
If you haven't yet shown your support for these Lists, won't you take a
moment and make your Contribution today? The Matronics Lists are always
Commercial-Free, SPAM-Free, Virus-Free, and High-performance and its your
direct support through this yearly Fund Raiser that enables all of these
valuable services you've come to expect.
Thank you for your Contribution!!
SSL Secure Web Site - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Matt Dralle
EMail List Administrator
================================================================
=================== What Listers Are Saying ====================
================================================================
You provide a service to us kit builders that cannot be measured.
-Clifford M.
...great service to the aviation community.
-Curt R.
Thanks for being there - your List has really been of help.
-Thomas R.
Your lists have been most helpful to my RV-9A project.
-Dean V.
...has been a great help to me.
-Jim N.
..."must-have" for RV builders and pilots.
-Douglas W.
I find something every day on the List that helps me in my project.
-Ron P.
...very valuable!
-Patrick L.
Don't know that I could have persevered and succeeded without the List.
-Curt R.
...service continues to be awesome and is one of the most helpful resources
for homebuilding that I have ever found.
-Jim H.
The information and hours of entertainment many of us derive from the Lists
is priceless.
-Chris R.
I learn a lot about my [aircraft] through the Lists...
- Lee P.
Great source of education and entertainment. Love it!!!
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Great List & very well organized.
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-William G.
The List is an important part of my daily routine.
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...incredible resource.
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Excellent facility.
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...unmatched service to all builders and flyers.
-Ralph C.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 09/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey"
><jeremycrdavey@btinternet.com>
>Duncan,
>That's excellent info - many thanks. I've copied the list as I think it will
>most definitely be of interest to some.
>Jeremy
Jeremy
Thanks for posting Duncan's excellent description. I have to admit he is
more meticulous than I am. I would make one suggestion, I always mix the
Cabosil into the Expansel first, before mixing that into the resin. It
seems to help absorption of the resin and makes it mix easier.
Graham
---
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" <mp.gamble@virgin.net>
Nigel,
I have just completed the club mod to the instrument panel which is 'approved by
the PFA'.
What reporting action should be followed ?
Do I still have to submit it for individual mod approval?
Regards
Mike
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: pip pin covers/mods |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" <mp.gamble@virgin.net>
Jeremy & Dave
-Roger
Thursday it is.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey@btinternet.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: pip pin covers/mods
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey"
<jeremycrdavey@btinternet.com>
>
> 10-4...
>
> Jeremy Davey
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: pip pin covers/mods |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" <mp.gamble@virgin.net>
Bob & David,
Thanks for your response.
I'm going for the plumbing though the tape would certainly be less work.
Regards
Mike
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Bob, you will find that an American has to dial
011 44 1472 852498
To get your number in England !
Richard Holder
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
>
> Hi! Alan.
> I have used the 1/2" Avdel pip pins through both seat backs and packed them
> forward with packing washers so the pip pin balls just lock. That way the
> spars must stay snug in place. Also for ease of one man rigging I have made
> "engagement ramps" on the starboard seat back socket(which receives the port
> spar tip) by welding and extending the entrances to the socket with 1"
> ANGLE MATERIAL of similar gauge material wich are also reduxed to the seat
> bulkhead.
> This ensures that the port spa has to engage the starboard socket by holding
> the wing tip aft for the spa to pivot forwards as it is pushed home over the
> wear strip at the bottom ledge of the access hole in the fuselage on the
> port side.
> This also presumes that you have installed the "cuff" around the port spa to
> receive the starboard spa.
> Hope you understand this? if not call my land line on 0044 1472 852498.
>
> regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Richard and thanks.
That's what comes of spending too much time on my anti- europe campaign!
Your message seems to confirm that my messages are getting through OK since
I've had about the last 6 returned by the server for whatever reason?
perhaps because I'm not likely to make a cash "contribution" If the group
doesn't want my contacts and comments so be it I certainly haven't spare
cash to pay for the facility and will welcome the spare time it will open up
to me, even as good as it seems to have been since the transfer from Avnet!.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Holder" <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spar Guide
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
>
> Bob, you will find that an American has to dial
>
> 011 44 1472 852498
>
> To get your number in England !
>
> Richard Holder
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison"
<ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
> >
> > Hi! Alan.
> > I have used the 1/2" Avdel pip pins through both seat backs and packed
them
> > forward with packing washers so the pip pin balls just lock. That way
the
> > spars must stay snug in place. Also for ease of one man rigging I have
made
> > "engagement ramps" on the starboard seat back socket(which receives the
port
> > spar tip) by welding and extending the entrances to the socket with 1"
> > ANGLE MATERIAL of similar gauge material wich are also reduxed to the
seat
> > bulkhead.
> > This ensures that the port spa has to engage the starboard socket by
holding
> > the wing tip aft for the spa to pivot forwards as it is pushed home over
the
> > wear strip at the bottom ledge of the access hole in the fuselage on the
> > port side.
> > This also presumes that you have installed the "cuff" around the port
spa to
> > receive the starboard spa.
> > Hope you understand this? if not call my land line on 0044 1472 852498.
> >
> > regards
> > Bob Harrison G-PTAG
> >
>
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>>>I've had about the last 6 returned by the server for whatever reason?
perhaps because I'm not likely to make a cash "contribution" If the group
doesn't want my contacts and comments so be it I certainly haven't spare
cash to pay for the facility .
Matronics certainly doesn't bounce mail from people who don't make contributions.
Any bounced mail messages from the group will be for technical reasons rather
than for monetary ones.
Tony
Do not archive.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Classic closed trailer for sale |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dari Sagar" <dari_sagar@hotmail.com>
Mike,
I'm interested in your trailer. I fly a Classic momowheel Europa. Please
could you let me know what you're asking for your it ? You could reach me on
either 01905 381688 04 my mobile 07900 056343. Thanks.
Regards,
Dari Sagar
>From: "Mike Cater" <mike.cater@btopenworld.com>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: Classic closed trailer for sale
>Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:59:31 -0000
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Cater"
><mike.cater@btopenworld.com>
>
>Hello,
>
>Having recently sold our beautiful Europa Classic to a new owner with
>hangar space, we are looking to sell our closed metal, twin axle,
>hangar/trailer.
>It comes complete with all the fittings for easy one man "rigging and
>derigging from the box". Open the trailer and be ready to fly in about 20
>minutes.
>Please drop me a line for further details.
>
>Regards,
>
>Mike Cater
>
>PS Based in Leicestershire by the way!
>
>
Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection
http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good Day All,
Just a quick question to clarify what the manual does not clearly call out.
When installing the TP16 Tab Drive Pins to the tailplane's anti-servo tabs,
do they get aligned with the centerline or with the rib? Pg4-7 of my manual
says to use a fillet of dry flox to align them correctly. But it doesn't say
which line it's to, rib line or center line.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
466 hours and one year into it.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Wed Lunchtime Fly-in |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "bryan allsop" <info@blackballclub.fsnet.co.uk>
I am pleasantly surprised at the level of interest in the Winter Lunchtime Fly-ins.
There are so many suggestions for where to go and get free meals etc.,that
we will not be stuck for choice. Certainly there are enough of us to make it
successfull in the long term.
Regretably this wednesday seems to be out for many, probably due to the short
notice. There is likely to be only the one weather slot for this Wednesday! But
we will arrange a meet for next Wednesday, I cant promise the weather though.
Meanwhile, if anyone is able to make it to Brough for a trial run this Wednesday
please let me know and I will go as well.
Bryan A.
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
I think it will all become clear if you turn the page. On 4-8 there are two
illustrations to guide you. The "plate" is bonded to the rib and the pin
aligns with the "hinge line".
Before you bond the TP16S and TP16P in place check to be certain that you
have the latest version of TP16 - see
http://www.europa-aircraft.com/Builder%20Support/Mods%20&%20SB/Mod%2058.pdf
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
DuaneFamly@aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: TP16 Alignment
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good Day All,
Just a quick question to clarify what the manual does not clearly call out.
When installing the TP16 Tab Drive Pins to the tailplane's anti-servo tabs,
do they get aligned with the centerline or with the rib? Pg4-7 of my manual
says to use a fillet of dry flox to align them correctly. But it doesn't say
which line it's to, rib line or center line.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
466 hours and one year into it.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wed Lunchtime Fly-in |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Bryan
So the inference is that the plan to fly to BOURNE on Wednesday is off?
I didn't know you could land at BROUGH because that's British Aero Space nr.
Hull? OR are you having a "Senior moment" and mean BOURNE?
Ironically I was intending raising the question of you making a decision so
far in advance ? Surely the crappy weather in this beloved Country of ours
in Winter means we can only expect the plan to work on a " morning of the
race 'phone round" albeit having been decided where the week's meeting would
be in advance?
I particularly remember a lousey night spent near "the golden mile" waiting
for the "pack" on our trip to the Emerald Isle!
OK this Wednesday may be out for some but it surely doesn't mean call it off
yet? or does it ?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
----- Original Message -----
From: "bryan allsop" <info@blackballclub.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Wed Lunchtime Fly-in
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "bryan allsop"
<info@blackballclub.fsnet.co.uk>
>
> I am pleasantly surprised at the level of interest in the Winter Lunchtime
Fly-ins. There are so many suggestions for where to go and get free meals
etc.,that we will not be stuck for choice. Certainly there are enough of us
to make it successfull in the long term.
>
> Regretably this wednesday seems to be out for many, probably due to the
short notice. There is likely to be only the one weather slot for this
Wednesday! But we will arrange a meet for next Wednesday, I cant promise the
weather though.
>
> Meanwhile, if anyone is able to make it to Brough for a trial run this
Wednesday please let me know and I will go as well.
>
> Bryan A.
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: TP16 Alignment |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Mike.
I recall making an "L" shaped template to position the trim tab drive pins
relative to the leading edge of the trim tab. The pin C/L needs to be
dimensionally positioned in the correct place and in line with the leading
edge. That means parallel to the leading edge. Hope this helps?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
----- Original Message -----
From: <DuaneFamly@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: TP16 Alignment
> --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
>
> Good Day All,
>
> Just a quick question to clarify what the manual does not clearly call
out.
>
> When installing the TP16 Tab Drive Pins to the tailplane's anti-servo
tabs,
> do they get aligned with the centerline or with the rib? Pg4-7 of my
manual
> says to use a fillet of dry flox to align them correctly. But it doesn't
say
> which line it's to, rib line or center line.
>
> Mike Duane A207
> Redding, California
> XS Conventional Gear
> 466 hours and one year into it.
>
>
Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
Sorry for the delay in answering but my E-mails have been getting rejected also.
Anyway, I decided to lay in a piece of galvanized angle iron to the bottom of the
spar opening to guide the spars in and am thinking about placing a piece of
plywood on the top to hold that part of the spar in alignment. (As per one of
the suggestions). Thanks for the help.
Al Stills
A095
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wed Lunchtime Fly-in |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
I am hoping to get there, although it would be better if you aim for Bourne,
as that is where we are meeting I think ! 10 miles west of Cambridge.
I will be there if the weather is good and if I get my carbs back on
tomorrow. I still have my misfire and today I have stripped the carbs on my
bench. I found absolutely nothing - so now it is likely to be the ignition
(I have already changed all the plugs).
I am getting p*ssed off with it ! It only misfires in the air and
inconsistently. I have done 20 hours with a latent misfire.
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, EGSG (Stapleford)
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "bryan allsop"
> <info@blackballclub.fsnet.co.uk>
>
> I am pleasantly surprised at the level of interest in the Winter Lunchtime
> Fly-ins. There are so many suggestions for where to go and get free meals
> etc.,that we will not be stuck for choice. Certainly there are enough of us to
> make it successfull in the long term.
>
> Regretably this wednesday seems to be out for many, probably due to the short
> notice. There is likely to be only the one weather slot for this Wednesday!
> But we will arrange a meet for next Wednesday, I cant promise the weather
> though.
>
> Meanwhile, if anyone is able to make it to Brough for a trial run this
> Wednesday please let me know and I will go as well.
>
> Bryan A.
Message 17
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| Subject: | roll trim tab and servo installation |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Hi All,
I'm familiar with the desireability of incorporating roll trim in the XS.
Can someone point me to an info source for a tried and true installation?
When is the optimal time to install it?..my sense would be after the
ailerons have been trial fitted to the wings (but what do I know?).
Fred, A194
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: roll trim tab and servo installation |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
Fred,
Many of us have had excellent luck using model airplane servos mounted in
the ailerons. I mounted mine after the ailerons were built but before
filling etc.
You can see pictures of an installation at www.galaxyhobby.com/europa.htm
If you have specific questions just e-mail me. All the parts required -
including servo driver, servo, linkages etc come to about $100 - cheaper and
faster than most other methods, plus it's almost totally hidden. Any good
hobby shop should have what you need.
Bob Jacobsen
A131
>From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: roll trim tab and servo installation
>Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:23:28 -0800
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I'm familiar with the desireability of incorporating roll trim in the XS.
>
>Can someone point me to an info source for a tried and true installation?
>
>When is the optimal time to install it?..my sense would be after the
>ailerons have been trial fitted to the wings (but what do I know?).
>
>Fred, A194
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | roll trim tab and servo installation |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Bob,
Did Cliff ever perfect a way to use your servo with the MAC (ray allen)
stick grip switches. If so, I would be interested in details. Wait...was
that it or some other problem he had to overcome? We had this discussion a
few years ago it seems like. ...Cliff?
Troy Maynor
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Jacobsen
Subject: Re: Europa-List: roll trim tab and servo installation
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
Fred,
Many of us have had excellent luck using model airplane servos mounted in
the ailerons. I mounted mine after the ailerons were built but before
filling etc.
You can see pictures of an installation at www.galaxyhobby.com/europa.htm
If you have specific questions just e-mail me. All the parts required -
including servo driver, servo, linkages etc come to about $100 - cheaper and
faster than most other methods, plus it's almost totally hidden. Any good
hobby shop should have what you need.
Bob Jacobsen
A131
>From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: roll trim tab and servo installation
>Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:23:28 -0800
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I'm familiar with the desireability of incorporating roll trim in the XS.
>
>Can someone point me to an info source for a tried and true installation?
>
>When is the optimal time to install it?..my sense would be after the
>ailerons have been trial fitted to the wings (but what do I know?).
>
>Fred, A194
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Spar guide placement |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
This is only me speaking - Andy or neville may wish to comment.
I was at the Europa tent the last two OSHes, and watched or took part in
several wing attachment parties. The speed and accuracy of the crew was
great to watch, but on occasion there was hesitation or difficulty and they
solved all by adjusting the angle of the spar.
It occurred to me that there is change in the dimensions from time to
ime - seasonal, humidity, temperature, whatever. I think it would be unwise
to set spar guides too critically that when some flexibility is required at
a later date, it is not available.
That is - I plan to leave some motion available, and will hew to the
manual specifically regarding pip pins. I am not sure I would rely on both
pins sited only by two retractable ball bearings.
Happy landings
Ferg
A064 classic mono
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Spar guide placement |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Ferg.
Perhaps you haven't understood my plan of solving the problem of single
person rigging of the port wing?
If you take the socket that the port spa engages in you will notice that it
has two small ramps which guide the spa finally into the socket. It is these
ramps that aren't extended enough to catch the approaching spa that causes
the delay in the spa finding the socket centre OR NEEDS AN ASSISTANT TO
VISUALLY GUIDE THE PERSON PUSHING THE WING TIP HOME THERBY CAUSING THE DELAY
YOU MENTION. Extend the ramps about 3" then the spa has to follow them
either DOWN or UP into the socket . The only direction not controlled is the
fore and aft position of the spa end but with a suitable LEDGED tuffnel wear
strip for the spa to slide over on the port side access the guy pushing can
hold the wing tip aft (keeps the spa tip forward) and bingo problem of it
"FINDING " the socket is solved.
The socket isn't structural, only a rigging aid, but you are only increasing
it's structural contribution (and unfortunately a little weight!) but with
the extension ramps being reduxed to the seat back bulkhead it is better
held from cracking away (As mine did...... then try rigging on your own and
go fly over the Alps like we did!)
On the pip pin question the procedure for fitting the port pip pin (1/2"
diameter with the 1370 lb mod) is to pull the pin tight against the
starboard spa with the balls engaged, measure the gap between the handle and
seat back and suitably pack it out to "soak" up the loose length. (It was my
choice to use an identical pip pin on both sides of the a/c on the basis of
"whats good for the goose is good for the gander" besides it looks more
professional than a welded allen key into a cap bolt!)
Obviously a threaded bolt with a self locking nut would be better than "the
balls" but can you devise a way of getting your hand in to fit the nut? But
also the "mickey mouse" welded allen key doesn't even have "the balls" to
restrain the spa from lateral movement. only the "cuff" mid span is
providing such restraint.
Hope you now feel happier about MY safety!!!!!?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Subject: Europa-List: Spar guide placement
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
> This is only me speaking - Andy or neville may wish to comment.
>
> I was at the Europa tent the last two OSHes, and watched or took part in
> several wing attachment parties. The speed and accuracy of the crew was
> great to watch, but on occasion there was hesitation or difficulty and
they
> solved all by adjusting the angle of the spar.
> It occurred to me that there is change in the dimensions from time to
> ime - seasonal, humidity, temperature, whatever. I think it would be
unwise
> to set spar guides too critically that when some flexibility is required
at
> a later date, it is not available.
> That is - I plan to leave some motion available, and will hew to the
> manual specifically regarding pip pins. I am not sure I would rely on both
> pins sited only by two retractable ball bearings.
> Happy landings
> Ferg
> A064 classic mono
>
>
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