Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:13 AM - Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. (David Joyce)
2. 04:06 AM - UK Weekday Fly In and Voucer Utilisation. (R.C.Harrison)
3. 05:06 AM - Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. (KARL HEINDL)
4. 05:52 AM - Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. (owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com)
5. 10:06 AM - LOC? - What's That? (Matt Dralle)
6. 10:27 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 11/17/03 (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
7. 11:13 AM - UK Weekly Fly In and Voucher Utilisation. (R.C.Harrison)
8. 12:28 PM - Twist in fuselage (Erich Trombley)
9. 01:30 PM - Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. (Cliff Shaw)
10. 02:11 PM - europa club christmas dinner (Rowland Carson)
11. 03:09 PM - Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. (Terry Seaver)
12. 04:08 PM - Re: europa club christmas dinner (Paul Boulet)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Jeff, I have a Flydat in my 914 mono XS, but all the other planes I have
flown and currently fly as a tug pilot, have rows of dials for individual
engine functions. The convenience, reliability and heads up user mode of the
Flydat is such that I would not consider building another plane without an
EIS. Scanning multiple dials frequently is not good for outside awareness,
and keeping a sharp look out is not good for following engine health
closely. It all probably relates to the widespread belief among glider
pilots that power pilots almost never look out at all! Incidentally although
the Flydat is good I suspect some of the alternative EISs are now better.
David Joyce
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
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Message 2
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| Subject: | UK Weekday Fly In and Voucer Utilisation. |
HTML_WITH_BGCOLOR
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! All Interested Parties.
From where I'm sat today (Tuesday 18th !) would have been a good day for this weeks
Fly In. .....High Cloud Base 30 Klicks vis no problem.Of course that may
not be the situation elsewhere?
BUT the predictions for Wednesday or even Thursday look very poor. (Not changing
my plan yet however)
This seems to point to my case for a more spontaneous system of decision making.
Spontaneous decisions to "go for it " can only be effected by the organiser making
a 'phone call to those who have previously declared an interest(and supplied
their 'phone numbers?) for the particular fly in, that to me is the only way
we can take advantage of the really good days as they happen which is the point
of this plan anyway.
Obviously what it means is that interested parties need to have decided that FLYING
will take the priority on plans for that week. In my case I really don't
have any conflict of other interests such as golf, bowls etc.so I don't have the
"agony" of decision but I accept that others have a more varied life style.
I will be proposing this scheme at this weeks fly in ..... when it happens!
On past reflections I have watched really excellent flying days pass when the weather
predictions have been as "though for another country" so what I would have
the plan encompass is to capitalise on such circumstances.
The other factor we need to examine is whether we are prepared to occasionally
have the Fly In get pushed into the forthcoming weekend OR do we want it to jump
forward into the following week ?
I would think that the plan "rolls on" even into a weekend then more of the workaholics
can join in !
Comments from interested parties would be appreciated?
Just as an "aside" my Son returns from Stockholm to Stanstead for 0900 hours Friday
so if our weekly event happens to get delayed 'til Friday I'll be flying
to collect him from North Weald at about 10.00 hours prior to flying to Sandtoft,
unless anyone collects him on the way ?!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG (This weeks Two Centre Fly In Organiser.... Sandtoft/Wickenby)
Home/Work 'phone No:- 01472 852498
Mobile 'phone No:- 07973 832741
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Hi Jeff,
If you are one of those pilots who love to look at and admire as many
instruments and electronic panels as possible, instead of concentrating
on the business of flying the airplane, then you should get a sixpack
of engine instruments. And there is no guarantee that you would
notice an overheating engine in time to avoid damage.
I use the EIS and it seems to work very well. You cannot ignore a big
flashing red light right in front of your nose, it is always in your
peripheral
vision. Scrolling through the five or so menus is not really a problem.
I have those buttons wired to the left/right buttons on my MAC control
column grip. The main parameters like rpm, oil temp and pressure are on
one menu. An installer who is familiar with all the instruments on the
market
told me that he far prefers the EIS to the Flydat. One reason is that it
displays oil pressure when you are just cranking the engine.
Karl
>From: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: Matronics Lists <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: Engine instrumentation confusion.
>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:18:24 -0500
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
>
>Just trying to do some panel planning with regard to engine instruments.
>The
>rotax manual, as well as Lockwood recommends the inexpensive VDO guages.
>All
>the brands to chose from like Mitchell, UMA, Westach, and then there is the
>miniature versions. The more I look the more I get confused. Is one gauge
>for CHT & EGT enough on the 912S? Is carb tep needed? The only all in one
>digital/analog I like is the AIM from IK Technologies. I dont like the
>hidden pages on the EIS but people seem to like it. Money is an object. I
>like seeing the guages or something at a glance.
>All thoughts for whats safe, simple, easy to read, and is less money
>welcome.
>
>Thanks,
>Jeff
>Air frame almost ready for primer.
>A258 Tri
>
>
Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection
http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. |
--> Europa-List message posted by:
The oil pressure thing is correct - in the beginning my FlyDat really
made me nervus - it takes about 10 seconds before you get a reading.
Now I am kind of used to calm down and "accept" the info when I get
it.......
Regards Gert
OY-GDS/Mono/914/250 hours
Den 18/11-2003, kl. 14.05, skrev KARL HEINDL:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> If you are one of those pilots who love to look at and admire as many
> instruments and electronic panels as possible, instead of concentrating
> on the business of flying the airplane, then you should get a sixpack
> of engine instruments. And there is no guarantee that you would
> notice an overheating engine in time to avoid damage.
>
> I use the EIS and it seems to work very well. You cannot ignore a big
> flashing red light right in front of your nose, it is always in your
> peripheral
> vision. Scrolling through the five or so menus is not really a problem.
> I have those buttons wired to the left/right buttons on my MAC control
> column grip. The main parameters like rpm, oil temp and pressure are on
> one menu. An installer who is familiar with all the instruments on the
> market
> told me that he far prefers the EIS to the Flydat. One reason is that
> it
> displays oil pressure when you are just cranking the engine.
>
> Karl
>
>
>> From: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
>> Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> To: Matronics Lists <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Europa-List: Engine instrumentation confusion.
>> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:18:24 -0500
>>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
>>
>> Just trying to do some panel planning with regard to engine
>> instruments.
>> The
>> rotax manual, as well as Lockwood recommends the inexpensive VDO
>> guages.
>> All
>> the brands to chose from like Mitchell, UMA, Westach, and then there
>> is the
>> miniature versions. The more I look the more I get confused. Is one
>> gauge
>> for CHT & EGT enough on the 912S? Is carb tep needed? The only all in
>> one
>> digital/analog I like is the AIM from IK Technologies. I dont like the
>> hidden pages on the EIS but people seem to like it. Money is an
>> object. I
>> like seeing the guages or something at a glance.
>> All thoughts for whats safe, simple, easy to read, and is less money
>> welcome.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jeff
>> Air frame almost ready for primer.
>> A258 Tri
>>
>>
>
> Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection
> http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband
>
>
> _-
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> >
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | LOC? - What's That? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is a directory of everyone's name that made
a Contribution during this year's List Fund Raiser. Its kind of my way of
publicly thanking everyone that so generously made a Contribution to
support the continued operation and upgrade of these Email Lists. This
year's List of Contributors is just around the corner; I'll be posting the
it on or about December 1.
Support your Lists today and make sure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC! Your friends will be checking, no doubt, to see if YOU make your
Contribution because THEY did! :-)
Support Contribution Info - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 11/17/03 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Stupid Questions
In building an aircraft, like flying them, if you don't know there are no
stupid questions!
Elbie CFI for over 40 years and have never heard a stupid question, but
never a stupid one :-) However giving forums at the major airshows sometimes
makes me wonder how some have kept alive flying at all! :-)
Message 7
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| Subject: | UK Weekly Fly In and Voucher Utilisation. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Guys.
Well I'm "going for it" Tomorrow Wednesday 19th November. 12 noon Sandtoft for
Lunch and then back to Wickenby for fuel as advised. BUT OF COURSE I WOULD BECAUSE
I HAVEN'T FAR TO FLY !
I have watched the tail like front lying across the North of the UK and whilst
it is edging south it seems to be very slow.
There is high pressure to the south , low pressure to the north seemingly with
SW winds I'm guessing tomorrow will stay stable across a line West to East through
say Blackpool to Scarborough. So apart from the western fliers and their
drizzle everyone will be flying to the worst weather and so be able to turn back
if needs be.
Today here it has been great flying weather.
I will obtain actual weather at Sandtoft as soon as they open and anyone needing
to 'phone me my numbers are.....
Home ....01472 852498
Mobile... 07973 832741.
DON'T FORGET YOUR VOUCHERS!
regards and fly safe
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Message 8
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| Subject: | Twist in fuselage |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
Tony writes:
Erich,
How bad is the effect you talk about, the twist due to the lower fuse being
distorted. I suppose a twist effect in the right direction could be the reason
so many first flights have "hands off" ability rather than a roll left
due to
the asymmetric weight of the pilot. Maybe a twist in the right direction is a
good thing ;-)
on the basis that the a/c often is flown one up rather than two. ( a bit of an
assumption made there )
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
Tony, I can not honestly recall the amount of twist as it has been too many years
ago that I performed this task. You may have a point though regarding the
twist being in the right direction. I do know that if you perform the installation
of the containment bulkhead with the top off using a technique developed
by Grahmam Singleton when the top finally does go on the containment bulkhead
is leaning so badly to one side that it must be redone to eliminate the interference
with counterbalance weights.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Jeff
I installed the Rocky Mountain uMonoter. I like it very much. There are no
pages to flip through. I installed a two position toggle switch to switch a
couple sensors so I got both sides of my 912S.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
New Email:" flyinggpa@comcast.net "
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Roberts" <jeff@rmmm.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Engine instrumentation confusion.
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
>
> Just trying to do some panel planning with regard to engine instruments.
The
> rotax manual, as well as Lockwood recommends the inexpensive VDO guages.
All
> the brands to chose from like Mitchell, UMA, Westach, and then there is
the
> miniature versions. The more I look the more I get confused. Is one gauge
> for CHT & EGT enough on the 912S? Is carb tep needed? The only all in one
> digital/analog I like is the AIM from IK Technologies. I dont like the
> hidden pages on the EIS but people seem to like it. Money is an object. I
> like seeing the guages or something at a glance.
> All thoughts for whats safe, simple, easy to read, and is less money
> welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
> Air frame almost ready for primer.
> A258 Tri
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | europa club christmas dinner |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
Most Europa Club online members in UK will have by now received a
message from Tim Houlihan reminding them about the Europa Club
Christmas Dinner on 6th December, at the Mill on the Soar, near
Leicester.
Alas, not long after Tim sent out the message, his computer suffered
severe disc indigestion and as a result he is offline temporarily.
If you've replied to Tim's e-mail in the last few days, it's possible
he hasn't received it, so please copy any such messages to me to
ensure your booking is confirmed.
And if you haven't already booked, do it now! I understand that
although the Europa factory team is at the Telford Show that weekend,
several of them are making the effort to come across-country and be
with us for the dinner. So don't miss this opportunity for a social
meeting with Keith, Andy, Neville and Ray.
The list will be closing before long as we'll have to give the
caterers final numbers soon, so don't delay, send me an e-mail today
at <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> or <europa-club@rowil.clara.net>.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (650 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
Hi Jeff,
I strongly recommend a carb heater with carb temp gauge. The 912S in an
XS CAN get carb ice. The carb heater from Sky Drive works well and
comes with a carb heat gauge.
regards,
Terry Seaver
Jeff Roberts wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
>
>Just trying to do some panel planning with regard to engine instruments. The
>rotax manual, as well as Lockwood recommends the inexpensive VDO guages. All
>the brands to chose from like Mitchell, UMA, Westach, and then there is the
>miniature versions. The more I look the more I get confused. Is one gauge
>for CHT & EGT enough on the 912S? Is carb tep needed? The only all in one
>digital/analog I like is the AIM from IK Technologies. I dont like the
>hidden pages on the EIS but people seem to like it. Money is an object. I
>like seeing the guages or something at a glance.
>All thoughts for whats safe, simple, easy to read, and is less money
>welcome.
>
>Thanks,
>Jeff
>Air frame almost ready for primer.
>A258 Tri
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: europa club christmas dinner |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet <possibletodo@yahoo.com>
Feeling a bit left out on this side of the pond.
Paul Boulet, Malibu, California
N914PB
Awaiting FAA ok for test flight
Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson
Most Europa Club online members in UK will have by now received a
message from Tim Houlihan reminding them about the Europa Club
Christmas Dinner on 6th December, at the Mill on the Soar, near
Leicester.
Alas, not long after Tim sent out the message, his computer suffered
severe disc indigestion and as a result he is offline temporarily.
If you've replied to Tim's e-mail in the last few days, it's possible
he hasn't received it, so please copy any such messages to me to
ensure your booking is confirmed.
And if you haven't already booked, do it now! I understand that
although the Europa factory team is at the Telford Show that weekend,
several of them are making the effort to come across-country and be
with us for the dinner. So don't miss this opportunity for a social
meeting with Keith, Andy, Neville and Ray.
The list will be closing before long as we'll have to give the
caterers final numbers soon, so don't delay, send me an e-mail today
at or .
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (650 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail website
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