Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:27 AM - Re: europa club christmas dinner (DaveBuzz@aol.com)
2. 02:41 AM - twist in fuselage (Graham Singleton)
3. 06:48 AM - Electric AH information sought! (RoddyEuropa@aol.com)
4. 07:04 AM - Skydrive cab heater temp indication ? (John & Paddy Wigney)
5. 07:25 AM - Re:RAF Odiham vist (Mike)
6. 07:25 AM - XS Fuel System Mods. (Mike)
7. 07:33 AM - Re: twist in fuselage (Miles McCallum)
8. 07:42 AM - Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. (Jeff Roberts)
9. 07:43 AM - Ultimate Ventilators (erichdtrombley@juno.com)
10. 08:33 AM - Re: XS Fuel System Mods. (Cliff Shaw)
11. 09:43 AM - Re: europa club christmas dinner (Paul Boulet)
12. 11:13 AM - UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. (R.C.Harrison)
13. 11:46 AM - Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. (nigel charles)
14. 12:24 PM - Re: europa club christmas dinner (DaveBuzz@aol.com)
15. 12:29 PM - Re: Re:RAF Odiham vist (Tom Paul)
16. 12:59 PM - Re: UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. (David Watts)
17. 01:19 PM - Re: UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. (Peter Lawless)
18. 02:44 PM - Dual Fuel Flow Sensors for 914 (rlborger)
19. 05:28 PM - Re: Skydrive cab heater temp indication ? (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
20. 11:38 PM - Re: europa club christmas dinner (Rowland Carson)
21. 11:38 PM - Re: Electric AH information sought! (Rowland Carson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: europa club christmas dinner |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com
Paul, and the rest of the listers,
It only takes one member to organise a doo for a lot of guys to have a great
time - just ask any of the 22 who pitched up for Simon Collins' RAF Odiham binge
last thursday.
It is a sad fact that only about half of the people who have bought a kit join
the Europa club. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm a member, and I really enjoy
the events I'm able to attend. Who's missing out? Certainly not me!
If nobody organises nowt, nowts what you'll get - The Club is worldwide but from
the UK, try as we might, we cant do it all!
BTW Paul if you can get a cheap flight over for Dec 6th your more than welcome,
perhaps you'll win a prize from whatever goodies Keith Wilson brings down...
chus,
Dave Bosomworth
kit67 mono classic
Rotax 912
Arplast vp
steam instruments
flying, having a b***dy great time......
>
>Feeling a bit left out on this side of the pond.
>Paul Boulet, Malibu, California
>N914PB
>
>Awaiting FAA ok for test flight
>
>Most Europa Club online members in UK will have by now received a
>message from Tim Houlihan reminding them about the Europa Club
>Christmas Dinner on 6th December, at the Mill on the Soar, near
>Leicester.
Message 2
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| Subject: | twist in fuselage |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 18/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>. I do know that if you perform the installation
>of the containment bulkhead with the top off using a technique developed
>by Grahmam Singleton when the top finally does go on the containment bulkhead
>is leaning so badly to one side that it must be redone to eliminate the
>interference
>with counterbalance weights.
Erich
I must have forgotten to tell you to take the twist out while fitting the
containment bulkhead parts? Sorreee
In fact the rear bulkhead and the torque tube when bonded in all have an
effect on locking in the distortion, flexing the tub in torsion before
these are in will demonstrate that the two sides move fore and aft as it
twists. Early efforts to stabilize the tub, in Chuck Pops' cradle for
instance, will pay off handsomely. So, I would say, do this first, then
tempo fit the top on, with the sternpost and check for twist at this early
stage.
Graham
---
Message 3
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| Subject: | Electric AH information sought! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: RoddyEuropa@aol.com
Does anyone know all about electric artificial horizons (old!)? I have an ex-military
one (made I think by Ferranti). I believe this works on 3 phase 415 volts
but it has a connection plug with about 15 pins on it. Anyone know if this
is likely to work with a standard 3 phase power supply (which I have) and where
I might find a wiring diagram?
Roddy Kesterton (#220)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Skydrive cab heater temp indication ? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney@worldnet.att.net>
From: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Engine instrumentation confusion.
--> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
Hi Jeff, I strongly recommend a carb heater with carb temp gauge. The 912S in
an
XS CAN get carb ice. The carb heater from Sky Drive works well and
comes with a carb heat gauge. regards, Terry Seaver
Dear Europaphiles,
I also have the Sky Drive carb heater which is basically a fit and forget item.
The temp gauge supplied with mine is only good for up to 50 deg C. After warm
up, it is always hotter than that and it just flashes digits. It would be nice
to have an accurate indication which would also be a backup coolant temp indicator.
Any experience of a better gauge out there ? Ideally it would have the
same size of read out.
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, 912S
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re:RAF Odiham vist |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" <mp.gamble@virgin.net>
My thanks to Simon Collins & Dave Buzz for organising the Odiham visit last
week. An interesting and convivial evening. I was tempted to stay on to
sample more of that half price beer but that would have meant a night stop
for which I did not have the appropiate pink chit. How many did I wonder?
Mike
Message 6
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| Subject: | XS Fuel System Mods. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" <mp.gamble@virgin.net>
Andy,
I seem to recollect you saying some time ago that you were planning to introduce
a mod to reposition the fuel sight guage and the fuel vents. My proposal
follows.
I would like to T the line from the port fuel outlet to the port fuel drain
where it emerges from the tunnel and feed it across the well of the baggage compartment
and up the stb wall, venting into the fuel filler neck. There would
be a further vent line from the filler neck to the lower fuselage. The tube is
protected throughout its run by enclosing it in square section conduit which
is bent to follow the fuselage profile and is left uncovered where it runs up
from the floor to the fuselage joint line (this is the guage proper). It will
be easy to fit and access for inspection.
Fuel contents could be checked before and during flight providing a backup
to the Europa fuel guage mod. already fitted.
What do you think? Can you see any reason why this change would not be acceptable?
In particular, can the tank also be vented into the filler neck?
I would be grateful to have your comments prior to submitting this mod to the
PFA.
I am copying to the forum as I'm sure there will be others who will be interested.
Regards
Mike
XS #440
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: twist in fuselage |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Miles McCallum" <milesm@avnet.co.uk>
Early efforts to stabilize the tub, in Chuck Pops' cradle for
> instance, will pay off handsomely. So, I would say, do this first, then
> tempo fit the top on, with the sternpost and check for twist at this early
> stage.
>
> Graham
>
Too right - the 250 and 2 days spent building a fuselage jig (mine's steel
tube and ply) has paid for itself handsomely - straight fuselage, stable
datums, and can be rolled on its side for lay-up convenience... Don't know
how you can build a straight one with it.
Miles
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
on 11/18/03 6:08 PM, Terry Seaver at terrys@cisco.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
>
>
>
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
>>
>> Just trying to do some panel planning with regard to engine instruments. The
>> rotax manual, as well as Lockwood recommends the inexpensive VDO guages. All
>> the brands to chose from like Mitchell, UMA, Westach, and then there is the
>> miniature versions. The more I look the more I get confused. Is one gauge
>> for CHT & EGT enough on the 912S? Is carb tep needed? The only all in one
>> digital/analog I like is the AIM from IK Technologies. I dont like the
>> hidden pages on the EIS but people seem to like it. Money is an object. I
>> like seeing the guages or something at a glance.
>> All thoughts for whats safe, simple, easy to read, and is less money
>> welcome.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jeff
>> Air frame almost ready for primer.
>> A258 Tri
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Thanks to all the responses. Looks like Im headed for the EIS. Thought I
may add the slave unit for an extra $350. It would be nice to have the extra
info in sight.
This forum is great. Did you make your donation?
Thanks,
Jeff
Air frame almost ready for primer.
A258 Tri
Message 9
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| Subject: | Ultimate Ventilators |
--> Europa-List message posted by: erichdtrombley@juno.com
To those flying,
Does anyone have any practical experience with the Ultimate Ventilators?
I have purchased two units and was wondering just how effective they
were and what is the optimum location and orientation on the aircraft?
Thanks,
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: XS Fuel System Mods. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Mike
I can add recommend the venting to the fill neck. Both Bob and I have built
our fuel systems with the main tank vent going to the fill neck.
I should say that the vent tub location in the fill neck should be located
so it will not get fuel dumped into it when fueling the plane.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote" first flight 06/30/03
New Email:" flyinggpa@comcast.net "
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <mp.gamble@virgin.net>
Subject: Europa-List: XS Fuel System Mods.
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" <mp.gamble@virgin.net>
>
> Andy,
> I seem to recollect you saying some time ago that you were planning to
introduce a mod to reposition the fuel sight guage and the fuel vents. My
proposal follows.
> I would like to T the line from the port fuel outlet to the port fuel
drain where it emerges from the tunnel and feed it across the well of the
baggage compartment and up the stb wall, venting into the fuel filler neck.
There would be a further vent line from the filler neck to the lower
fuselage. The tube is protected throughout its run by enclosing it in square
section conduit which is bent to follow the fuselage profile and is left
uncovered where it runs up from the floor to the fuselage joint line (this
is the guage proper). It will be easy to fit and access for inspection.
> Fuel contents could be checked before and during flight providing a
backup to the Europa fuel guage mod. already fitted.
> What do you think? Can you see any reason why this change would not be
acceptable? In particular, can the tank also be vented into the filler neck?
> I would be grateful to have your comments prior to submitting this mod
to the PFA.
> I am copying to the forum as I'm sure there will be others who will be
interested.
> Regards
> Mike
> XS #440
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: europa club christmas dinner |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet <possibletodo@yahoo.com>
OK. I'm not sure we have enough flyers on the West Coast yet for a true club but
I'll see what I can do about organizing a chapter. Maybe I'll start with Kim
Prout since he's the West Coast distributor. How about some guidance/direction
Kim? I'll be glad to spearhead
Paul Boulet, N914PB
DaveBuzz@aol.com wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com
Paul, and the rest of the listers,
It only takes one member to organise a doo for a lot of guys to have a great time
- just ask any of the 22 who pitched up for Simon Collins' RAF Odiham binge
last thursday.
It is a sad fact that only about half of the people who have bought a kit join
the Europa club. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm a member, and I really enjoy
the events I'm able to attend. Who's missing out? Certainly not me!
If nobody organises nowt, nowts what you'll get - The Club is worldwide but from
the UK, try as we might, we cant do it all!
BTW Paul if you can get a cheap flight over for Dec 6th your more than welcome,
perhaps you'll win a prize from whatever goodies Keith Wilson brings down...
chus,
Dave Bosomworth
kit67 mono classic
Rotax 912
Arplast vp
steam instruments
flying, having a b***dy great time......
>
>Feeling a bit left out on this side of the pond.
>Paul Boulet, Malibu, California
>N914PB
>
>Awaiting FAA ok for test flight
>
>Most Europa Club online members in UK will have by now received a
>message from Tim Houlihan reminding them about the Europa Club
>Christmas Dinner on 6th December, at the Mill on the Soar, near
>Leicester.
Message 12
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| Subject: | UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. |
HTML_WITH_BGCOLOR
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! All.
Just a line to report that only one intrepid flier(Dave Watts) and his wife navigator
made it to Sandtoft today.I went, of course, and since he turned up I'm
pleased I did ! Sorry about the decision to proceed but Kent to Lincolnshire
was obviously flyable it was just a shame about the other directions. However
it didn't look too pleasant facing Dave for the return trip, hope they made it
OK?
Well, Chairman Allsop, obviously Chesterfield was likewise weathered in? I regret
that due to lack of numerous arrivals I forgot to hand the Organisers mantle
over to another participant for next week !
So here's a suggestion .....I'll take it again! only THIS Friday looks good at
present and knowing there is so many unfulfilled flyers I'm suggesting Friday
at Sherburn-in-Elmet(EGCJ) because I've unused vouchers for there too ! Hopefully
there will be a resonable quorum to authorise the hand over of the "organisers
mantle"?
BTW if it should go ahead my Son will still need collecting from North Weald at
about 10.00 hours and he will have a hefty bag with him...... if no one can collect
him I will probably fly down and collect him myself prior to Sherburn.
So I will need to decide last thing tomorrow night since if there's no likelyhood
of flying I'll need to leave here by car at 06.30 latest .
ANY TAKERS ? (Of the Sherburn idea primarily!)
Or am I being too presumptuous?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
>I dont like the hidden pages on the EIS but people seem to like it.<
Have a look at the Rocky Mountain Inst uMonitor. Most of the data is
displayed on one screen. In conjunction with a Floscan sender it also
provides very accurate fuel contents and flow info. Typical accuracies of
fuel quantity on my Europa have been within 1% - very useful on long trips.
The uMonitor is the same width as other standard avionics enabling it to fit
into the usual avionics rack. On a small inst panel like the Europa it
provides very efficient use of panel space.
Nigel Charles
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: europa club christmas dinner |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com
<<How about some guidance/direction Kim? I'll be glad to spearhead Paul Boulet,
N914PB>>
Go for it Paul. I'm glad you raised the question of International access to Club
stuff, but it boils down to local guys organising something in their area
- I'd really like the club to offer more overseas, but what and how?
I appreciate distances are greater and your closest Europa builder/flyer may
be a hundred miles away, but it can be done, as the UK Seminar last May and the
Odiham bash showed - 3 attendees at Odiham drove a couple of hundred miles round
trip just for the evening.
Just get the guys to bring a bit of their kit or instruments along and provide
a decent bar to chat in - in the end its the beer that counts ;-)
All the best,
Dave
kit67
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re:RAF Odiham vist |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tom Paul <tom@tompaul.com>
For those of us on the other side of the puddle, what's a pink chit?
Tom Paul
On 11/19/03 9:10 AM, "Mike" <mp.gamble@virgin.net> wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" <mp.gamble@virgin.net>
>
> My thanks to Simon Collins & Dave Buzz for organising the Odiham visit last
> week. An interesting and convivial evening. I was tempted to stay on to
> sample more of that half price beer but that would have meant a night stop
> for which I did not have the appropiate pink chit. How many did I wonder?
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Watts" <dg.watts@virgin.net>
You're right the return trip was worse. 170nm and we managed to get up to
1,900 ft on a few short bits but most was at around 1400 - 1500 ft with the
last 20 miles down to 1000 ft. I always had an escape route to an airfield
reachable for the whole route though, so although it was taxing it was never
dodgy.
Can't make Friday though - baby sitting!!!!!!!!!
Dave Watts G-BXDY Flying 960 hrs.
>Bob Harrison wrote
> Just a line to report that only one intrepid flier(Dave Watts) and his
wife navigator made it to Sandtoft today.I went, of course, and since he
turned up I'm pleased I did ! Sorry about the decision to proceed but Kent
to Lincolnshire was obviously flyable it was just a shame about the other
directions. However it didn't look too pleasant facing Dave for the return
trip, hope they made it OK?
> So here's a suggestion .....I'll take it again! only THIS Friday looks
good at present and knowing there is so many unfulfilled flyers I'm
suggesting Friday at Sherburn-in-Elmet(EGCJ) because I've unused vouchers
for there too ! Hopefully there will be a resonable quorum to authorise the
hand over of the "organisers mantle"?
Message 17
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| Subject: | UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
Hi Bob
Yes I don't mind Sherburn this Friday. Based at Kemble not to far in from
the Cotswold ridge so if there is any low cloud etc we get it.
Regards
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison
Subject: Europa-List: UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation.
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! All.
Just a line to report that only one intrepid flier(Dave Watts) and his wife
navigator made it to Sandtoft today.I went, of course, and since he turned
up I'm pleased I did ! Sorry about the decision to proceed but Kent to
Lincolnshire was obviously flyable it was just a shame about the other
directions. However it didn't look too pleasant facing Dave for the return
trip, hope they made it OK?
Well, Chairman Allsop, obviously Chesterfield was likewise weathered in? I
regret that due to lack of numerous arrivals I forgot to hand the Organisers
mantle over to another participant for next week !
So here's a suggestion .....I'll take it again! only THIS Friday looks good
at present and knowing there is so many unfulfilled flyers I'm suggesting
Friday at Sherburn-in-Elmet(EGCJ) because I've unused vouchers for there too
! Hopefully there will be a resonable quorum to authorise the hand over of
the "organisers mantle"?
BTW if it should go ahead my Son will still need collecting from North Weald
at about 10.00 hours and he will have a hefty bag with him...... if no one
can collect him I will probably fly down and collect him myself prior to
Sherburn.
So I will need to decide last thing tomorrow night since if there's no
likelyhood of flying I'll need to leave here by car at 06.30 latest .
ANY TAKERS ? (Of the Sherburn idea primarily!)
Or am I being too presumptuous?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
Message 18
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| Subject: | Dual Fuel Flow Sensors for 914 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
List,
A while back someone asked about dual fuel flow sensor for an EFIS. I
have not been able to locate the exact question in the list. It was of
interest to me as I have a Rocky Mtn MicroMonitor planned for my panel.
I contacted RMI and asked about dual fuel flow sensors for their
system. They responded very quickly to say that they have an optional
module which supports dual fuel flow sensors specifically for systems
like the 914. It is called the Two Flow Monitor and costs an extra
$350 to add to the RMI MicroMonitor. RMI also sent a copy of the
installation pdf for that module. I'd be happy to pass it along to
anyone interested.
Good building,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL (40%) Wings almost ready to close, cockpit
module installed.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Skydrive cab heater temp indication ? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good day All,
I question whether a carb heater temp "above" the indicated 50'C/122'F is
really necessary? With the poor output from the Rotax alternator, can't there be
a resistor installed inline to lower the current demand? Just a question for
thought.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Cockpit module installed, tailplane torque tube in place, awaiting
replacement bolts from the UK in order to assemble my pitch torque tube.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: europa club christmas dinner |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
On 2003 11 18 at 16:08 -0800, Paul Boulet wrote:
>Feeling a bit left out on this side of the pond
Paul - sorry! But there's nothing to stop people over there
organising something similar. The Club simply found a hotel somewhere
central, made a block booking, and acted as the conduit for payments
etc. In USA, of course, Europa people are spread a bit thinner, but
there are a few clusters as the following summary shows:
California 44
Florida 23
Texas 16
Washington 16
Arizona 11
UNKNOWN 10
Ohio 10
Pennsylvania 9
Georgia 8
Michigan 8
North Carolina 8
Illinois 7
New York 7
Nevada 6
Wisconsin 6
Colorado 5
Indiana 5
Maryland 5
Minnesota 5
Tennessee 5
Hawaii 4
Iowa 4
New Jersey 4
New Mexico 4
Oregon 4
Virginia 4
Connecticut 3
Massachusetts 3
Utah 3
Louisiana 2
Missouri 2
South Carolina 2
Idaho 1
Kansas 1
Kentucky 1
New Hampshire 1
Oklahoma 1
Vermont 1
Wyoming 1
That includes all the 260 builders/fliers I know about - John Hurst
probably has more on his books, as my latest builder list from him
was in June. Not all the above are Europa Club members, but there are
probably enough in some areas to justify a seasonal get-together (and
if non-members are invited too, they might see the virtue in joining
such a nice bunch of people!). Bit late to start thinking about it
now, but maybe next year?
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (650 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
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| Subject: | Re: Electric AH information sought! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
On 2003 11 19 at 09:47 -0500, RoddyEuropa@aol.com wrote:
>Does anyone know all about electric artificial horizons
Roddy - our tame expert on gyros of all sorts in the Gloster Strut is
Robin Morton, and I'm passing your query on to him for comments.
Can't promise when any reply might materilise, though.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson PFA #16532 e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
| 650 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI
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