---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/19/03: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:27 AM - Re: europa club christmas dinner (DaveBuzz@aol.com) 2. 02:41 AM - twist in fuselage (Graham Singleton) 3. 06:48 AM - Electric AH information sought! (RoddyEuropa@aol.com) 4. 07:04 AM - Skydrive cab heater temp indication ? (John & Paddy Wigney) 5. 07:25 AM - Re:RAF Odiham vist (Mike) 6. 07:25 AM - XS Fuel System Mods. (Mike) 7. 07:33 AM - Re: twist in fuselage (Miles McCallum) 8. 07:42 AM - Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. (Jeff Roberts) 9. 07:43 AM - Ultimate Ventilators (erichdtrombley@juno.com) 10. 08:33 AM - Re: XS Fuel System Mods. (Cliff Shaw) 11. 09:43 AM - Re: europa club christmas dinner (Paul Boulet) 12. 11:13 AM - UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. (R.C.Harrison) 13. 11:46 AM - Re: Engine instrumentation confusion. (nigel charles) 14. 12:24 PM - Re: europa club christmas dinner (DaveBuzz@aol.com) 15. 12:29 PM - Re: Re:RAF Odiham vist (Tom Paul) 16. 12:59 PM - Re: UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. (David Watts) 17. 01:19 PM - Re: UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. (Peter Lawless) 18. 02:44 PM - Dual Fuel Flow Sensors for 914 (rlborger) 19. 05:28 PM - Re: Skydrive cab heater temp indication ? (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 20. 11:38 PM - Re: europa club christmas dinner (Rowland Carson) 21. 11:38 PM - Re: Electric AH information sought! (Rowland Carson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:27:51 AM PST US From: DaveBuzz@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: europa club christmas dinner --> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com Paul, and the rest of the listers, It only takes one member to organise a doo for a lot of guys to have a great time - just ask any of the 22 who pitched up for Simon Collins' RAF Odiham binge last thursday. It is a sad fact that only about half of the people who have bought a kit join the Europa club. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm a member, and I really enjoy the events I'm able to attend. Who's missing out? Certainly not me! If nobody organises nowt, nowts what you'll get - The Club is worldwide but from the UK, try as we might, we cant do it all! BTW Paul if you can get a cheap flight over for Dec 6th your more than welcome, perhaps you'll win a prize from whatever goodies Keith Wilson brings down... chus, Dave Bosomworth kit67 mono classic Rotax 912 Arplast vp steam instruments flying, having a b***dy great time...... > >Feeling a bit left out on this side of the pond. >Paul Boulet, Malibu, California >N914PB > >Awaiting FAA ok for test flight > >Most Europa Club online members in UK will have by now received a >message from Tim Houlihan reminding them about the Europa Club >Christmas Dinner on 6th December, at the Mill on the Soar, near >Leicester. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:51 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: twist in fuselage --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton At 23:56 18/11/2003 -0800, you wrote: >. I do know that if you perform the installation >of the containment bulkhead with the top off using a technique developed >by Grahmam Singleton when the top finally does go on the containment bulkhead >is leaning so badly to one side that it must be redone to eliminate the >interference >with counterbalance weights. Erich I must have forgotten to tell you to take the twist out while fitting the containment bulkhead parts? Sorreee In fact the rear bulkhead and the torque tube when bonded in all have an effect on locking in the distortion, flexing the tub in torsion before these are in will demonstrate that the two sides move fore and aft as it twists. Early efforts to stabilize the tub, in Chuck Pops' cradle for instance, will pay off handsomely. So, I would say, do this first, then tempo fit the top on, with the sternpost and check for twist at this early stage. Graham --- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:57 AM PST US From: RoddyEuropa@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Electric AH information sought! --> Europa-List message posted by: RoddyEuropa@aol.com Does anyone know all about electric artificial horizons (old!)? I have an ex-military one (made I think by Ferranti). I believe this works on 3 phase 415 volts but it has a connection plug with about 15 pins on it. Anyone know if this is likely to work with a standard 3 phase power supply (which I have) and where I might find a wiring diagram? Roddy Kesterton (#220) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:24 AM PST US From: John & Paddy Wigney Subject: Europa-List: Skydrive cab heater temp indication ? --> Europa-List message posted by: John & Paddy Wigney From: Terry Seaver Subject: Re: Europa-List: Engine instrumentation confusion. --> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver Hi Jeff, I strongly recommend a carb heater with carb temp gauge. The 912S in an XS CAN get carb ice. The carb heater from Sky Drive works well and comes with a carb heat gauge. regards, Terry Seaver Dear Europaphiles, I also have the Sky Drive carb heater which is basically a fit and forget item. The temp gauge supplied with mine is only good for up to 50 deg C. After warm up, it is always hotter than that and it just flashes digits. It would be nice to have an accurate indication which would also be a backup coolant temp indicator. Any experience of a better gauge out there ? Ideally it would have the same size of read out. Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:39 AM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: Europa-List: Re:RAF Odiham vist --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" My thanks to Simon Collins & Dave Buzz for organising the Odiham visit last week. An interesting and convivial evening. I was tempted to stay on to sample more of that half price beer but that would have meant a night stop for which I did not have the appropiate pink chit. How many did I wonder? Mike ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:39 AM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: Europa-List: XS Fuel System Mods. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" Andy, I seem to recollect you saying some time ago that you were planning to introduce a mod to reposition the fuel sight guage and the fuel vents. My proposal follows. I would like to T the line from the port fuel outlet to the port fuel drain where it emerges from the tunnel and feed it across the well of the baggage compartment and up the stb wall, venting into the fuel filler neck. There would be a further vent line from the filler neck to the lower fuselage. The tube is protected throughout its run by enclosing it in square section conduit which is bent to follow the fuselage profile and is left uncovered where it runs up from the floor to the fuselage joint line (this is the guage proper). It will be easy to fit and access for inspection. Fuel contents could be checked before and during flight providing a backup to the Europa fuel guage mod. already fitted. What do you think? Can you see any reason why this change would not be acceptable? In particular, can the tank also be vented into the filler neck? I would be grateful to have your comments prior to submitting this mod to the PFA. I am copying to the forum as I'm sure there will be others who will be interested. Regards Mike XS #440 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:49 AM PST US From: "Miles McCallum" Subject: Re: Europa-List: twist in fuselage --> Europa-List message posted by: "Miles McCallum" Early efforts to stabilize the tub, in Chuck Pops' cradle for > instance, will pay off handsomely. So, I would say, do this first, then > tempo fit the top on, with the sternpost and check for twist at this early > stage. > > Graham > Too right - the 250 and 2 days spent building a fuselage jig (mine's steel tube and ply) has paid for itself handsomely - straight fuselage, stable datums, and can be rolled on its side for lay-up convenience... Don't know how you can build a straight one with it. Miles ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Engine instrumentation confusion. From: Jeff Roberts --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts on 11/18/03 6:08 PM, Terry Seaver at terrys@cisco.com wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver > > > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts >> >> Just trying to do some panel planning with regard to engine instruments. The >> rotax manual, as well as Lockwood recommends the inexpensive VDO guages. All >> the brands to chose from like Mitchell, UMA, Westach, and then there is the >> miniature versions. The more I look the more I get confused. Is one gauge >> for CHT & EGT enough on the 912S? Is carb tep needed? The only all in one >> digital/analog I like is the AIM from IK Technologies. I dont like the >> hidden pages on the EIS but people seem to like it. Money is an object. I >> like seeing the guages or something at a glance. >> All thoughts for whats safe, simple, easy to read, and is less money >> welcome. >> >> Thanks, >> Jeff >> Air frame almost ready for primer. >> A258 Tri >> >> >> >> > > > > > > Thanks to all the responses. Looks like Im headed for the EIS. Thought I may add the slave unit for an extra $350. It would be nice to have the extra info in sight. This forum is great. Did you make your donation? Thanks, Jeff Air frame almost ready for primer. A258 Tri ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:36 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Ultimate Ventilators From: erichdtrombley@juno.com --> Europa-List message posted by: erichdtrombley@juno.com To those flying, Does anyone have any practical experience with the Ultimate Ventilators? I have purchased two units and was wondering just how effective they were and what is the optimum location and orientation on the aircraft? Thanks, Erich Trombley N28ET ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:22 AM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Fuel System Mods. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Mike I can add recommend the venting to the fill neck. Both Bob and I have built our fuel systems with the main tank vent going to the fill neck. I should say that the vent tub location in the fill neck should be located so it will not get fuel dumped into it when fueling the plane. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds WA 98020 (425) 776-5555 N229WC "Wile E Coyote" first flight 06/30/03 New Email:" flyinggpa@comcast.net " ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" Subject: Europa-List: XS Fuel System Mods. > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" > > Andy, > I seem to recollect you saying some time ago that you were planning to introduce a mod to reposition the fuel sight guage and the fuel vents. My proposal follows. > I would like to T the line from the port fuel outlet to the port fuel drain where it emerges from the tunnel and feed it across the well of the baggage compartment and up the stb wall, venting into the fuel filler neck. There would be a further vent line from the filler neck to the lower fuselage. The tube is protected throughout its run by enclosing it in square section conduit which is bent to follow the fuselage profile and is left uncovered where it runs up from the floor to the fuselage joint line (this is the guage proper). It will be easy to fit and access for inspection. > Fuel contents could be checked before and during flight providing a backup to the Europa fuel guage mod. already fitted. > What do you think? Can you see any reason why this change would not be acceptable? In particular, can the tank also be vented into the filler neck? > I would be grateful to have your comments prior to submitting this mod to the PFA. > I am copying to the forum as I'm sure there will be others who will be interested. > Regards > Mike > XS #440 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:41 AM PST US From: Paul Boulet Subject: Re: Europa-List: europa club christmas dinner --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet OK. I'm not sure we have enough flyers on the West Coast yet for a true club but I'll see what I can do about organizing a chapter. Maybe I'll start with Kim Prout since he's the West Coast distributor. How about some guidance/direction Kim? I'll be glad to spearhead Paul Boulet, N914PB DaveBuzz@aol.com wrote: --> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com Paul, and the rest of the listers, It only takes one member to organise a doo for a lot of guys to have a great time - just ask any of the 22 who pitched up for Simon Collins' RAF Odiham binge last thursday. It is a sad fact that only about half of the people who have bought a kit join the Europa club. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm a member, and I really enjoy the events I'm able to attend. Who's missing out? Certainly not me! If nobody organises nowt, nowts what you'll get - The Club is worldwide but from the UK, try as we might, we cant do it all! BTW Paul if you can get a cheap flight over for Dec 6th your more than welcome, perhaps you'll win a prize from whatever goodies Keith Wilson brings down... chus, Dave Bosomworth kit67 mono classic Rotax 912 Arplast vp steam instruments flying, having a b***dy great time...... > >Feeling a bit left out on this side of the pond. >Paul Boulet, Malibu, California >N914PB > >Awaiting FAA ok for test flight > >Most Europa Club online members in UK will have by now received a >message from Tim Houlihan reminding them about the Europa Club >Christmas Dinner on 6th December, at the Mill on the Soar, near >Leicester. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:56 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Europa-List: UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. HTML_WITH_BGCOLOR --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! All. Just a line to report that only one intrepid flier(Dave Watts) and his wife navigator made it to Sandtoft today.I went, of course, and since he turned up I'm pleased I did ! Sorry about the decision to proceed but Kent to Lincolnshire was obviously flyable it was just a shame about the other directions. However it didn't look too pleasant facing Dave for the return trip, hope they made it OK? Well, Chairman Allsop, obviously Chesterfield was likewise weathered in? I regret that due to lack of numerous arrivals I forgot to hand the Organisers mantle over to another participant for next week ! So here's a suggestion .....I'll take it again! only THIS Friday looks good at present and knowing there is so many unfulfilled flyers I'm suggesting Friday at Sherburn-in-Elmet(EGCJ) because I've unused vouchers for there too ! Hopefully there will be a resonable quorum to authorise the hand over of the "organisers mantle"? BTW if it should go ahead my Son will still need collecting from North Weald at about 10.00 hours and he will have a hefty bag with him...... if no one can collect him I will probably fly down and collect him myself prior to Sherburn. So I will need to decide last thing tomorrow night since if there's no likelyhood of flying I'll need to leave here by car at 06.30 latest . ANY TAKERS ? (Of the Sherburn idea primarily!) Or am I being too presumptuous? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:59 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Engine instrumentation confusion. --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" >I dont like the hidden pages on the EIS but people seem to like it.< Have a look at the Rocky Mountain Inst uMonitor. Most of the data is displayed on one screen. In conjunction with a Floscan sender it also provides very accurate fuel contents and flow info. Typical accuracies of fuel quantity on my Europa have been within 1% - very useful on long trips. The uMonitor is the same width as other standard avionics enabling it to fit into the usual avionics rack. On a small inst panel like the Europa it provides very efficient use of panel space. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:34 PM PST US From: DaveBuzz@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: europa club christmas dinner --> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com <> Go for it Paul. I'm glad you raised the question of International access to Club stuff, but it boils down to local guys organising something in their area - I'd really like the club to offer more overseas, but what and how? I appreciate distances are greater and your closest Europa builder/flyer may be a hundred miles away, but it can be done, as the UK Seminar last May and the Odiham bash showed - 3 attendees at Odiham drove a couple of hundred miles round trip just for the evening. Just get the guys to bring a bit of their kit or instruments along and provide a decent bar to chat in - in the end its the beer that counts ;-) All the best, Dave kit67 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re:RAF Odiham vist From: Tom Paul --> Europa-List message posted by: Tom Paul For those of us on the other side of the puddle, what's a pink chit? Tom Paul On 11/19/03 9:10 AM, "Mike" wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" > > My thanks to Simon Collins & Dave Buzz for organising the Odiham visit last > week. An interesting and convivial evening. I was tempted to stay on to > sample more of that half price beer but that would have meant a night stop > for which I did not have the appropiate pink chit. How many did I wonder? > Mike > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:34 PM PST US From: "David Watts" Subject: Re: Europa-List: UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Watts" You're right the return trip was worse. 170nm and we managed to get up to 1,900 ft on a few short bits but most was at around 1400 - 1500 ft with the last 20 miles down to 1000 ft. I always had an escape route to an airfield reachable for the whole route though, so although it was taxing it was never dodgy. Can't make Friday though - baby sitting!!!!!!!!! Dave Watts G-BXDY Flying 960 hrs. >Bob Harrison wrote > Just a line to report that only one intrepid flier(Dave Watts) and his wife navigator made it to Sandtoft today.I went, of course, and since he turned up I'm pleased I did ! Sorry about the decision to proceed but Kent to Lincolnshire was obviously flyable it was just a shame about the other directions. However it didn't look too pleasant facing Dave for the return trip, hope they made it OK? > So here's a suggestion .....I'll take it again! only THIS Friday looks good at present and knowing there is so many unfulfilled flyers I'm suggesting Friday at Sherburn-in-Elmet(EGCJ) because I've unused vouchers for there too ! Hopefully there will be a resonable quorum to authorise the hand over of the "organisers mantle"? ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:49 PM PST US From: "Peter Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Lawless" Hi Bob Yes I don't mind Sherburn this Friday. Based at Kemble not to far in from the Cotswold ridge so if there is any low cloud etc we get it. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison Subject: Europa-List: UK weekday Fly In /Voucher utilisation. --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! All. Just a line to report that only one intrepid flier(Dave Watts) and his wife navigator made it to Sandtoft today.I went, of course, and since he turned up I'm pleased I did ! Sorry about the decision to proceed but Kent to Lincolnshire was obviously flyable it was just a shame about the other directions. However it didn't look too pleasant facing Dave for the return trip, hope they made it OK? Well, Chairman Allsop, obviously Chesterfield was likewise weathered in? I regret that due to lack of numerous arrivals I forgot to hand the Organisers mantle over to another participant for next week ! So here's a suggestion .....I'll take it again! only THIS Friday looks good at present and knowing there is so many unfulfilled flyers I'm suggesting Friday at Sherburn-in-Elmet(EGCJ) because I've unused vouchers for there too ! Hopefully there will be a resonable quorum to authorise the hand over of the "organisers mantle"? BTW if it should go ahead my Son will still need collecting from North Weald at about 10.00 hours and he will have a hefty bag with him...... if no one can collect him I will probably fly down and collect him myself prior to Sherburn. So I will need to decide last thing tomorrow night since if there's no likelyhood of flying I'll need to leave here by car at 06.30 latest . ANY TAKERS ? (Of the Sherburn idea primarily!) Or am I being too presumptuous? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:34 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Dual Fuel Flow Sensors for 914 From: rlborger --> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger List, A while back someone asked about dual fuel flow sensor for an EFIS. I have not been able to locate the exact question in the list. It was of interest to me as I have a Rocky Mtn MicroMonitor planned for my panel. I contacted RMI and asked about dual fuel flow sensors for their system. They responded very quickly to say that they have an optional module which supports dual fuel flow sensors specifically for systems like the 914. It is called the Two Flow Monitor and costs an extra $350 to add to the RMI MicroMonitor. RMI also sent a copy of the installation pdf for that module. I'd be happy to pass it along to anyone interested. Good building, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL (40%) Wings almost ready to close, cockpit module installed. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:12 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skydrive cab heater temp indication ? --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Good day All, I question whether a carb heater temp "above" the indicated 50'C/122'F is really necessary? With the poor output from the Rotax alternator, can't there be a resistor installed inline to lower the current demand? Just a question for thought. Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Cockpit module installed, tailplane torque tube in place, awaiting replacement bolts from the UK in order to assemble my pitch torque tube. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:36 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: europa club christmas dinner --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson On 2003 11 18 at 16:08 -0800, Paul Boulet wrote: >Feeling a bit left out on this side of the pond Paul - sorry! But there's nothing to stop people over there organising something similar. The Club simply found a hotel somewhere central, made a block booking, and acted as the conduit for payments etc. In USA, of course, Europa people are spread a bit thinner, but there are a few clusters as the following summary shows: California 44 Florida 23 Texas 16 Washington 16 Arizona 11 UNKNOWN 10 Ohio 10 Pennsylvania 9 Georgia 8 Michigan 8 North Carolina 8 Illinois 7 New York 7 Nevada 6 Wisconsin 6 Colorado 5 Indiana 5 Maryland 5 Minnesota 5 Tennessee 5 Hawaii 4 Iowa 4 New Jersey 4 New Mexico 4 Oregon 4 Virginia 4 Connecticut 3 Massachusetts 3 Utah 3 Louisiana 2 Missouri 2 South Carolina 2 Idaho 1 Kansas 1 Kentucky 1 New Hampshire 1 Oklahoma 1 Vermont 1 Wyoming 1 That includes all the 260 builders/fliers I know about - John Hurst probably has more on his books, as my latest builder list from him was in June. Not all the above are Europa Club members, but there are probably enough in some areas to justify a seasonal get-together (and if non-members are invited too, they might see the virtue in joining such a nice bunch of people!). Bit late to start thinking about it now, but maybe next year? regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary | Europa 435 G-ROWI (650 hours building) PFA #16532 | e-mail website ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:36 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electric AH information sought! --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson On 2003 11 19 at 09:47 -0500, RoddyEuropa@aol.com wrote: >Does anyone know all about electric artificial horizons Roddy - our tame expert on gyros of all sorts in the Gloster Strut is Robin Morton, and I'm passing your query on to him for comments. Can't promise when any reply might materilise, though. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson PFA #16532 e-mail | 650 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI