Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:18 AM - "Drop of the Hat" fly out. ( w/c Mon. 1-12-2003 ) (Tony Burbidge)
2. 10:47 AM - Re: UK Weekday Fly-in (Dari Sagar)
3. 12:25 PM - Re: Faulty Oil Temp sensor (Carl & Dot)
4. 12:27 PM - Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! (Matt Dralle)
5. 02:17 PM - Re: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! (Peter Davis)
6. 02:23 PM - Re: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! (Alan Twigg)
7. 02:24 PM - Re: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! (Alan Twigg)
8. 02:55 PM - Re: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! (Peter Davis)
9. 05:59 PM - T. P. Pip pins (Stephen Dunn)
10. 07:01 PM - Pitot and Static (Troy Maynor)
11. 07:20 PM - EIS panel suggestions (Europa Aircraft)
12. 07:48 PM - Re: EIS panel suggestions (Guil Barros)
13. 07:59 PM - Re: EIS panel suggestions (Paul McAllister)
14. 08:20 PM - Re: EIS panel suggestions (Guil Barros)
15. 08:23 PM - Re: EIS panel suggestions (Guil Barros)
16. 09:33 PM - Re: Pitot and Static (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
17. 10:16 PM - Re: "Drop of the Hat" fly out. ( w/c Mon. 1-12-2003 ) (William Mills)
18. 11:08 PM - Re: Pitot and Static (William Mills)
19. 11:13 PM - Fuel Pressure Rotax 914 (mike toft)
20. 11:15 PM - Re: "Drop of the Hat" fly out. ( w/c Mon. 1-12-2003 ) (R.C.Harrison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | "Drop of the Hat" fly out. ( w/c Mon. 1-12-2003 ) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Burbidge" <tony.burbidge@virgin.net>
Looks like Peterborough "Connington" might be a good bet for the next meet. It
has most things going for it, ie:-
Central location, Alternate runways, Hot food & drinks all day and another free
landing voucher.
The long range weather forecast at the moment favours Thursday / Friday, but that
can be reviewed as the week
progresses.
Watch this space.
Regards & Safe Flying.
Tony Burbidge.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: UK Weekday Fly-in |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dari Sagar" <dari_sagar@hotmail.com>
William,
Thanks for organising the very enjoyable fly-out to Sleap. Hopefully I'll
see you at the next one.
Regards,
Dari
>From: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: UK Weekday Fly-in
>Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:02:48 -0000
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
><combined.merchants@virgin.net>
>
>Hello All,
>We had very good weather for yesterday's fly-in to Sleap and we were made
>most welcome by the Club. The bacon butties were very tasty also. The
>following members attended:-
>Paddy Clarke, Dari Sagar, Jim Naylor, Tony Burbridge, Bob Harrison, Paul
>Sweeting, Pete Lawless, Dave and Marion Watts all flew in and locals Mark
>Burton and Brian Fogg drove in to join the fun. Apologies received from
>Bryan Allsop, who was committed to spending the day searching for his
>balls!
>Many thanks to Bryan for instigating the Fly-ins. As you all can see they
>are becoming very popular.
>Tony Burbridge has taken over the batten and will arrange next weeks venue.
>Best wishes,
>William
>
>
Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today!
http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Faulty Oil Temp sensor |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
It turns out there is nothing wrong with the sensor although initial checks
with the ohm meter suggested this was the problem.
It seems to be much worse. and the problem is somewhere in the Grand Rapids
EIS unit. Not only is the oil temp wrong but most other readings are now
abnormal.
Guess well have to return it to Grand Rapids and see what they have to say.
Pity as the annual permit is due to expire in 10 days.
Carl pattinson
G-LABS (grounded for the time being)
----- Original Message -----
From: <n3eu@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Faulty Oil Temp sensor
> --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
>
> Carl & Dot wrote:
> > ...
> > I think my preferred choice would be to mount the sender in the return
line
> > from the bottom of the crank casing (would need a metal block to screw
into)
> > where I assume it would be at its hottest. An easier fix might be to
bolt it
> > into the oil tank somewhere. This would be simpler, and there would be
less
> > vibration. Possibly a hole tapped into the centre of the oil tank drain
plug
> > would work.
>
> I believe Rotax is sensing cooled oil -- not the hot stuff in the return
line nor similar in the tank, and they set the redline temp premised upon
the effect of mounting in the engine block where they do. I would caution
against any mod which cannot verify the Rotax redline temp is still valid,
or proper testing to set a new value. So far we have one reported instance
of a complete failure only alleged due to vibration. A google search I did
turns up nothing else, nor is there a service bulletin. If vibration can
fail the sensor, then the temp instrument will go blooey, so then just
replace it. A significant cause of homebuilt accidents is this type of
experimentation, resulting in doing things in ways not seen on production
aircraft for presumably valid reason.
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Well, its November 30th and that means three things...
1) Today I am officially 40 years old (sympathy is appreciated)!
2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser!
3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year! :-)
If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam,
and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution
today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30
goes a long way to further the List operation and keep the bills paid.
A Lister wrote a funny message in the comments field of his Contribution
today that I thought summed up the whole situation:
"Worth every penny and I'm a tightwad!"
Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is
greatly appreciated.
Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
How old are you 'unofficially'?
With Sympathy - although I think you are still a "Spring Chicken"!
Peter
mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
viruses.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Subject: Europa-List: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List
Contribution!!
--> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Well, its November 30th and that means three things...
1) Today I am officially 40 years old (sympathy is appreciated)!
2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser!
3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year!
:-)
If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam,
and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution
today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30
goes a long way to further the List operation and keep the bills paid.
A Lister wrote a funny message in the comments field of his Contribution
today that I thought summed up the whole situation:
"Worth every penny and I'm a tightwad!"
Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is
greatly appreciated.
Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Twigg" <alan.twigg@ntlworld.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List
Contribution!!
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
>
> How old are you 'unofficially'?
>
> With Sympathy - although I think you are still a "Spring Chicken"!
>
> Peter
>
> mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
>
> This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
> viruses.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
> To: dralle@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List
> Contribution!!
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Well, its November 30th and that means three things...
>
> 1) Today I am officially 40 years old (sympathy is appreciated)!
>
> 2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser!
>
> 3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year!
> :-)
>
> If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising,
no-spam,
> and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution
> today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30
> goes a long way to further the List operation and keep the bills paid.
>
> A Lister wrote a funny message in the comments field of his Contribution
> today that I thought summed up the whole situation:
>
> "Worth every penny and I'm a tightwad!"
>
> Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It
is
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Email List Admin.
>
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Twigg" <alan.twigg@ntlworld.com>
Which Peter Davis is this, do you or did you work for RR ?
Alan Twigg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List
Contribution!!
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
>
> How old are you 'unofficially'?
>
> With Sympathy - although I think you are still a "Spring Chicken"!
>
> Peter
>
> mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
>
> This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
> viruses.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
> To: dralle@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List
> Contribution!!
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Well, its November 30th and that means three things...
>
> 1) Today I am officially 40 years old (sympathy is appreciated)!
>
> 2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser!
>
> 3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year!
> :-)
>
> If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising,
no-spam,
> and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution
> today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30
> goes a long way to further the List operation and keep the bills paid.
>
> A Lister wrote a funny message in the comments field of his Contribution
> today that I thought summed up the whole situation:
>
> "Worth every penny and I'm a tightwad!"
>
> Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It
is
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Email List Admin.
>
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
Hi Alan,
I worked for RR - Bristol Aero Engines ( Previously Bristol Siddley) from
1966 to 1970. Since then I have moved on. I was there in the 'good old days'
of the Olympus 592 (Concorde engine); Pegasus engine (Harrier Jump Jet) and
the RB211. Unfortunately I think it was these ground breaking developments
that resulted in Bristol Siddley being taken over by RR as they
overstretched themselves.
My build number is 154; G-BYIK, based at Oxford/Kidlington; flying for 4+
years; and enjoying every moment.
Peter D
mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
viruses.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan Twigg
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List
Contribution!!
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Twigg" <alan.twigg@ntlworld.com>
Which Peter Davis is this, do you or did you work for RR ?
Alan Twigg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List
Contribution!!
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
>
> How old are you 'unofficially'?
>
> With Sympathy - although I think you are still a "Spring Chicken"!
>
> Peter
>
> mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
>
> This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
> viruses.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
> To: dralle@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Last "Official" Day To Make Your List
> Contribution!!
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Well, its November 30th and that means three things...
>
> 1) Today I am officially 40 years old (sympathy is appreciated)!
>
> 2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser!
>
> 3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year!
> :-)
>
> If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising,
no-spam,
> and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution
> today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30
> goes a long way to further the List operation and keep the bills paid.
>
> A Lister wrote a funny message in the comments field of his Contribution
> today that I thought summed up the whole situation:
>
> "Worth every penny and I'm a tightwad!"
>
> Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It
is
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Email List Admin.
>
>
> Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
> http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephen Dunn" <steve100557@hotmail.com>
Could some one with the larger tail plane pip pins tell me the diameter of
the largest part of those pins ? Thanks,
Steve D.
A109
Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free
parking. http://shopping.msn.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Pitot and Static |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Hi All,
I have read where some have ended up disconnecting the static source and
using the static cockpit air for the flight instruments and it work fine if
not better. I am contemplating not even install the second line. I would be
a neater install going along the pilots side of the cockpit and save a
little weight. I wonder how many of you have disconnected yours or not
installed it.(?)
Troy Maynor
N120EU Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Paint,interior,engine install, wiring.
Message 11
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| Subject: | EIS panel suggestions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Europa Aircraft <europa@gate.net>
Hi All,
I have been getting a lot of calls at the US office lately requesting guidance
for installing engine instruments.
There are some neat new products available, like the EIS mentioned below. The
EIS is a great way to monitor a large number of engine parameters previously impossible
to do with analog gages.
The EIS, however, it not as easy to read as an analog instrument. Our engines
are not cheap, and our butts are worth even more, so I strongly recommend that
for the most important engine parameters, easy to read analog gages be installed
in an area easy for the pilot to spot. Examples are the Tachometer, hottest
CHT, Oil Pressure, and Manifold Pressure for constant speed props. It is much
easier to spot a fluxing, or dropping oil pressure needle than to spot, or
page to the number on an EIS. Once the red light comes on there will not be
as much time left to find a place to land.
For a 914 you also need to have something that tells you the difference between
fuel pressure & boost pressure in the same units - ex, both in inches of mercury,
or pounds per square inch. I am working with an instrument manufacturer
to make a single gage that does this to save space, but don't have one yet. Rotax
recommends a twin MP gage for this, but they only come in 3 1/4.
Another reason for installing engine instruments is noted below. If the monitor
fails, then there is no way to tell what the engine is doing.
Finally, these instruments are cheap, as little as $35 each.
Hope this answers some of your questions.
John Hurst
Europa Aircraft
Lakeland, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl & Dot <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Faulty Oil Temp sensor
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
It turns out there is nothing wrong with the sensor although initial checks
with the ohm meter suggested this was the problem.
It seems to be much worse. and the problem is somewhere in the Grand Rapids
EIS unit. Not only is the oil temp wrong but most other readings are now
abnormal.
Guess well have to return it to Grand Rapids and see what they have to say.
Pity as the annual permit is due to expire in 10 days.
Carl pattinson
G-LABS (grounded for the time being)
----- Original Message -----
From: <n3eu@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Faulty Oil Temp sensor
> --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
>
> Carl & Dot wrote:
> > ...
> > I think my preferred choice would be to mount the sender in the return
line
> > from the bottom of the crank casing (would need a metal block to screw
into)
> > where I assume it would be at its hottest. An easier fix might be to
bolt it
> > into the oil tank somewhere. This would be simpler, and there would be
less
> > vibration. Possibly a hole tapped into the centre of the oil tank drain
plug
> > would work.
>
> I believe Rotax is sensing cooled oil -- not the hot stuff in the return
line nor similar in the tank, and they set the redline temp premised upon
the effect of mounting in the engine block where they do. I would caution
against any mod which cannot verify the Rotax redline temp is still valid,
or proper testing to set a new value. So far we have one reported instance
of a complete failure only alleged due to vibration. A google search I did
turns up nothing else, nor is there a service bulletin. If vibration can
fail the sensor, then the temp instrument will go blooey, so then just
replace it. A significant cause of homebuilt accidents is this type of
experimentation, resulting in doing things in ways not seen on production
aircraft for presumably valid reason.
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
>
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: EIS panel suggestions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Guil Barros <flight@metathusalan.com>
Ive been looking at some EIS systems myself, and looking for guages to go along
as backups.
Can someone recommend good low-priced guages? $35 a pop sounds pretty good, but
i havent found anything like that...
thx,
-guil
Quoting Europa Aircraft <europa@gate.net>:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Europa Aircraft <europa@gate.net>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have been getting a lot of calls at the US office lately requesting
> guidance for installing engine instruments.
>
> There are some neat new products available, like the EIS mentioned below.
> The EIS is a great way to monitor a large number of engine parameters
> previously impossible to do with analog gages.
>
> The EIS, however, it not as easy to read as an analog instrument. Our
> engines are not cheap, and our butts are worth even more, so I strongly
> recommend that for the most important engine parameters, easy to read analog
> gages be installed in an area easy for the pilot to spot. Examples are the
> Tachometer, hottest CHT, Oil Pressure, and Manifold Pressure for constant
> speed props. It is much easier to spot a fluxing, or dropping oil pressure
> needle than to spot, or page to the number on an EIS. Once the red light
> comes on there will not be as much time left to find a place to land.
>
> For a 914 you also need to have something that tells you the difference
> between fuel pressure & boost pressure in the same units - ex, both in inches
> of mercury, or pounds per square inch. I am working with an instrument
> manufacturer to make a single gage that does this to save space, but don't
> have one yet. Rotax recommends a twin MP gage for this, but they only come
> in 3 1/4.
>
> Another reason for installing engine instruments is noted below. If the
> monitor fails, then there is no way to tell what the engine is doing.
>
> Finally, these instruments are cheap, as little as $35 each.
>
> Hope this answers some of your questions.
>
> John Hurst
> Europa Aircraft
> Lakeland, FL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl & Dot <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Faulty Oil Temp sensor
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
>
> It turns out there is nothing wrong with the sensor although initial checks
> with the ohm meter suggested this was the problem.
>
> It seems to be much worse. and the problem is somewhere in the Grand Rapids
> EIS unit. Not only is the oil temp wrong but most other readings are now
> abnormal.
>
> Guess well have to return it to Grand Rapids and see what they have to say.
>
> Pity as the annual permit is due to expire in 10 days.
>
> Carl pattinson
> G-LABS (grounded for the time being)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <n3eu@comcast.net>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Faulty Oil Temp sensor
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> >
> > Carl & Dot wrote:
> > > ...
> > > I think my preferred choice would be to mount the sender in the return
> line
> > > from the bottom of the crank casing (would need a metal block to screw
> into)
> > > where I assume it would be at its hottest. An easier fix might be to
> bolt it
> > > into the oil tank somewhere. This would be simpler, and there would be
> less
> > > vibration. Possibly a hole tapped into the centre of the oil tank drain
> plug
> > > would work.
> >
> > I believe Rotax is sensing cooled oil -- not the hot stuff in the return
> line nor similar in the tank, and they set the redline temp premised upon
> the effect of mounting in the engine block where they do. I would caution
> against any mod which cannot verify the Rotax redline temp is still valid,
> or proper testing to set a new value. So far we have one reported instance
> of a complete failure only alleged due to vibration. A google search I did
> turns up nothing else, nor is there a service bulletin. If vibration can
> fail the sensor, then the temp instrument will go blooey, so then just
> replace it. A significant cause of homebuilt accidents is this type of
> experimentation, resulting in doing things in ways not seen on production
> aircraft for presumably valid reason.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Fred F.
> >
> >
>
>
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Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: EIS panel suggestions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Guil,
Chief sells a range of gauges that are below $50.00 each. I couldn't find
them on there WEB site but they were featured on a catalogue I got the other
day. There WEB site address is http://www.chiefaircraft.com/
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guil Barros" <flight@metathusalan.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: EIS panel suggestions
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Guil Barros <flight@metathusalan.com>
>
> Ive been looking at some EIS systems myself, and looking for guages to go
along
> as backups.
>
> Can someone recommend good low-priced guages? $35 a pop sounds pretty
good, but
> i havent found anything like that...
>
> thx,
> -guil
>
>
> Quoting Europa Aircraft <europa@gate.net>:
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Europa Aircraft <europa@gate.net>
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have been getting a lot of calls at the US office lately requesting
> > guidance for installing engine instruments.
> >
> > There are some neat new products available, like the EIS mentioned
below.
> > The EIS is a great way to monitor a large number of engine parameters
> > previously impossible to do with analog gages.
> >
> > The EIS, however, it not as easy to read as an analog instrument. Our
> > engines are not cheap, and our butts are worth even more, so I strongly
> > recommend that for the most important engine parameters, easy to read
analog
> > gages be installed in an area easy for the pilot to spot. Examples are
the
> > Tachometer, hottest CHT, Oil Pressure, and Manifold Pressure for
constant
> > speed props. It is much easier to spot a fluxing, or dropping oil
pressure
> > needle than to spot, or page to the number on an EIS. Once the red
light
> > comes on there will not be as much time left to find a place to land.
> >
> > For a 914 you also need to have something that tells you the difference
> > between fuel pressure & boost pressure in the same units - ex, both in i
nches
> > of mercury, or pounds per square inch. I am working with an instrument
> > manufacturer to make a single gage that does this to save space, but
don't
> > have one yet. Rotax recommends a twin MP gage for this, but they only
come
> > in 3 1/4.
> >
> > Another reason for installing engine instruments is noted below. If the
> > monitor fails, then there is no way to tell what the engine is doing.
> >
> > Finally, these instruments are cheap, as little as $35 each.
> >
> > Hope this answers some of your questions.
> >
> > John Hurst
> > Europa Aircraft
> > Lakeland, FL
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carl & Dot <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
> > To: europa-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Faulty Oil Temp sensor
> >
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
> >
> > It turns out there is nothing wrong with the sensor although initial
checks
> > with the ohm meter suggested this was the problem.
> >
> > It seems to be much worse. and the problem is somewhere in the Grand
Rapids
> > EIS unit. Not only is the oil temp wrong but most other readings are now
> > abnormal.
> >
> > Guess well have to return it to Grand Rapids and see what they have to
say.
> >
> > Pity as the annual permit is due to expire in 10 days.
> >
> > Carl pattinson
> > G-LABS (grounded for the time being)
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <n3eu@comcast.net>
> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Faulty Oil Temp sensor
> >
> >
> > > --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> > >
> > > Carl & Dot wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > I think my preferred choice would be to mount the sender in the
return
> > line
> > > > from the bottom of the crank casing (would need a metal block to
screw
> > into)
> > > > where I assume it would be at its hottest. An easier fix might be to
> > bolt it
> > > > into the oil tank somewhere. This would be simpler, and there would
be
> > less
> > > > vibration. Possibly a hole tapped into the centre of the oil tank
drain
> > plug
> > > > would work.
> > >
> > > I believe Rotax is sensing cooled oil -- not the hot stuff in the
return
> > line nor similar in the tank, and they set the redline temp premised
upon
> > the effect of mounting in the engine block where they do. I would
caution
> > against any mod which cannot verify the Rotax redline temp is still
valid,
> > or proper testing to set a new value. So far we have one reported
instance
> > of a complete failure only alleged due to vibration. A google search I
did
> > turns up nothing else, nor is there a service bulletin. If vibration
can
> > fail the sensor, then the temp instrument will go blooey, so then just
> > replace it. A significant cause of homebuilt accidents is this type of
> > experimentation, resulting in doing things in ways not seen on
production
> > aircraft for presumably valid reason.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Fred F.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
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>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: EIS panel suggestions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Guil Barros <flight@metathusalan.com>
found them under "Chief Aircraft -> Engine Instruments -> ISSPRO" and ordered a
catalog :)
has anyone used them? what do you think?
thanks!
-guil
Quoting Paul McAllister <paul.mcallister@qia.net>:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
> <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
>
> Guil,
>
> Chief sells a range of gauges that are below $50.00 each. I couldn't find
> them on there WEB site but they were featured on a catalogue I got the other
> day. There WEB site address is http://www.chiefaircraft.com/
>
> Paul
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Guil Barros" <flight@metathusalan.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: EIS panel suggestions
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Guil Barros <flight@metathusalan.com>
> >
> > Ive been looking at some EIS systems myself, and looking for guages to go
> along
> > as backups.
> >
> > Can someone recommend good low-priced guages? $35 a pop sounds pretty
> good, but
> > i havent found anything like that...
> >
> > thx,
> > -guil
> >
> >
> > Quoting Europa Aircraft <europa@gate.net>:
> >
> > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Europa Aircraft <europa@gate.net>
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > I have been getting a lot of calls at the US office lately requesting
> > > guidance for installing engine instruments.
> > >
> > > There are some neat new products available, like the EIS mentioned
> below.
> > > The EIS is a great way to monitor a large number of engine parameters
> > > previously impossible to do with analog gages.
> > >
> > > The EIS, however, it not as easy to read as an analog instrument. Our
> > > engines are not cheap, and our butts are worth even more, so I strongly
> > > recommend that for the most important engine parameters, easy to read
> analog
> > > gages be installed in an area easy for the pilot to spot. Examples are
> the
> > > Tachometer, hottest CHT, Oil Pressure, and Manifold Pressure for
> constant
> > > speed props. It is much easier to spot a fluxing, or dropping oil
> pressure
> > > needle than to spot, or page to the number on an EIS. Once the red
> light
> > > comes on there will not be as much time left to find a place to land.
> > >
> > > For a 914 you also need to have something that tells you the difference
> > > between fuel pressure & boost pressure in the same units - ex, both in i
> nches
> > > of mercury, or pounds per square inch. I am working with an instrument
> > > manufacturer to make a single gage that does this to save space, but
> don't
> > > have one yet. Rotax recommends a twin MP gage for this, but they only
> come
> > > in 3 1/4.
> > >
> > > Another reason for installing engine instruments is noted below. If the
> > > monitor fails, then there is no way to tell what the engine is doing.
> > >
> > > Finally, these instruments are cheap, as little as $35 each.
> > >
> > > Hope this answers some of your questions.
> > >
> > > John Hurst
> > > Europa Aircraft
> > > Lakeland, FL
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Carl & Dot <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
> > > To: europa-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Faulty Oil Temp sensor
> > >
> > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
> > >
> > > It turns out there is nothing wrong with the sensor although initial
> checks
> > > with the ohm meter suggested this was the problem.
> > >
> > > It seems to be much worse. and the problem is somewhere in the Grand
> Rapids
> > > EIS unit. Not only is the oil temp wrong but most other readings are now
> > > abnormal.
> > >
> > > Guess well have to return it to Grand Rapids and see what they have to
> say.
> > >
> > > Pity as the annual permit is due to expire in 10 days.
> > >
> > > Carl pattinson
> > > G-LABS (grounded for the time being)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <n3eu@comcast.net>
> > > To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Faulty Oil Temp sensor
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> > > >
> > > > Carl & Dot wrote:
> > > > > ...
> > > > > I think my preferred choice would be to mount the sender in the
> return
> > > line
> > > > > from the bottom of the crank casing (would need a metal block to
> screw
> > > into)
> > > > > where I assume it would be at its hottest. An easier fix might be to
> > > bolt it
> > > > > into the oil tank somewhere. This would be simpler, and there would
> be
> > > less
> > > > > vibration. Possibly a hole tapped into the centre of the oil tank
> drain
> > > plug
> > > > > would work.
> > > >
> > > > I believe Rotax is sensing cooled oil -- not the hot stuff in the
> return
> > > line nor similar in the tank, and they set the redline temp premised
> upon
> > > the effect of mounting in the engine block where they do. I would
> caution
> > > against any mod which cannot verify the Rotax redline temp is still
> valid,
> > > or proper testing to set a new value. So far we have one reported
> instance
> > > of a complete failure only alleged due to vibration. A google search I
> did
> > > turns up nothing else, nor is there a service bulletin. If vibration
> can
> > > fail the sensor, then the temp instrument will go blooey, so then just
> > > replace it. A significant cause of homebuilt accidents is this type of
> > > experimentation, resulting in doing things in ways not seen on
> production
> > > aircraft for presumably valid reason.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Fred F.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: EIS panel suggestions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Guil Barros <flight@metathusalan.com>
sorry for the double-post, forgot to add this to previous email...
what about altimeter, airspeed, horizon, etc? any sources for good cheap ones?
thanks,
-guil
Quoting Paul McAllister <paul.mcallister@qia.net>:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
> <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
>
> Guil,
>
> Chief sells a range of gauges that are below $50.00 each. I couldn't find
> them on there WEB site but they were featured on a catalogue I got the other
> day. There WEB site address is http://www.chiefaircraft.com/
>
> Paul
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Guil Barros" <flight@metathusalan.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: EIS panel suggestions
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Guil Barros <flight@metathusalan.com>
> >
> > Ive been looking at some EIS systems myself, and looking for guages to go
> along
> > as backups.
> >
> > Can someone recommend good low-priced guages? $35 a pop sounds pretty
> good, but
> > i havent found anything like that...
> >
> > thx,
> > -guil
> >
> >
> > Quoting Europa Aircraft <europa@gate.net>:
> >
> > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Europa Aircraft <europa@gate.net>
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > I have been getting a lot of calls at the US office lately requesting
> > > guidance for installing engine instruments.
> > >
> > > There are some neat new products available, like the EIS mentioned
> below.
> > > The EIS is a great way to monitor a large number of engine parameters
> > > previously impossible to do with analog gages.
> > >
> > > The EIS, however, it not as easy to read as an analog instrument. Our
> > > engines are not cheap, and our butts are worth even more, so I strongly
> > > recommend that for the most important engine parameters, easy to read
> analog
> > > gages be installed in an area easy for the pilot to spot. Examples are
> the
> > > Tachometer, hottest CHT, Oil Pressure, and Manifold Pressure for
> constant
> > > speed props. It is much easier to spot a fluxing, or dropping oil
> pressure
> > > needle than to spot, or page to the number on an EIS. Once the red
> light
> > > comes on there will not be as much time left to find a place to land.
> > >
> > > For a 914 you also need to have something that tells you the difference
> > > between fuel pressure & boost pressure in the same units - ex, both in i
> nches
> > > of mercury, or pounds per square inch. I am working with an instrument
> > > manufacturer to make a single gage that does this to save space, but
> don't
> > > have one yet. Rotax recommends a twin MP gage for this, but they only
> come
> > > in 3 1/4.
> > >
> > > Another reason for installing engine instruments is noted below. If the
> > > monitor fails, then there is no way to tell what the engine is doing.
> > >
> > > Finally, these instruments are cheap, as little as $35 each.
> > >
> > > Hope this answers some of your questions.
> > >
> > > John Hurst
> > > Europa Aircraft
> > > Lakeland, FL
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Carl & Dot <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
> > > To: europa-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Faulty Oil Temp sensor
> > >
> > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
> > >
> > > It turns out there is nothing wrong with the sensor although initial
> checks
> > > with the ohm meter suggested this was the problem.
> > >
> > > It seems to be much worse. and the problem is somewhere in the Grand
> Rapids
> > > EIS unit. Not only is the oil temp wrong but most other readings are now
> > > abnormal.
> > >
> > > Guess well have to return it to Grand Rapids and see what they have to
> say.
> > >
> > > Pity as the annual permit is due to expire in 10 days.
> > >
> > > Carl pattinson
> > > G-LABS (grounded for the time being)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <n3eu@comcast.net>
> > > To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Faulty Oil Temp sensor
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> > > >
> > > > Carl & Dot wrote:
> > > > > ...
> > > > > I think my preferred choice would be to mount the sender in the
> return
> > > line
> > > > > from the bottom of the crank casing (would need a metal block to
> screw
> > > into)
> > > > > where I assume it would be at its hottest. An easier fix might be to
> > > bolt it
> > > > > into the oil tank somewhere. This would be simpler, and there would
> be
> > > less
> > > > > vibration. Possibly a hole tapped into the centre of the oil tank
> drain
> > > plug
> > > > > would work.
> > > >
> > > > I believe Rotax is sensing cooled oil -- not the hot stuff in the
> return
> > > line nor similar in the tank, and they set the redline temp premised
> upon
> > > the effect of mounting in the engine block where they do. I would
> caution
> > > against any mod which cannot verify the Rotax redline temp is still
> valid,
> > > or proper testing to set a new value. So far we have one reported
> instance
> > > of a complete failure only alleged due to vibration. A google search I
> did
> > > turns up nothing else, nor is there a service bulletin. If vibration
> can
> > > fail the sensor, then the temp instrument will go blooey, so then just
> > > replace it. A significant cause of homebuilt accidents is this type of
> > > experimentation, resulting in doing things in ways not seen on
> production
> > > aircraft for presumably valid reason.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Fred F.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Pitot and Static |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
We've disconnect the wing mounted static on two aircraft and both display much
better airspeed calibration than with the wing mounted static. There was no change
in altitude calibration detected.
One aircraft is a Classic/912 (ZK-UBD) and the other is an XS/912S (ZK-RJL) and
normally operate at altitudes of less than 10000ft amsl.
The Classic/912 has standard Europa NACA air vents and an air outlet. The XS/912S
has Europa NACA air vents plus a windcreen mount photo panel and no air outlet.
The opening and closing of the vents and panel shows no variance in airspeed
or altitude indication.
Regards
Tony
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: "Drop of the Hat" fly out. ( w/c Mon. 1-12-2003 ) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Count me in, Tony.
Best wishes,
William
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Burbidge" <tony.burbidge@virgin.net>
Subject: Europa-List: "Drop of the Hat" fly out. ( w/c Mon. 1-12-2003 )
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Burbidge"
<tony.burbidge@virgin.net>
>
> Looks like Peterborough "Connington" might be a good bet for the next
meet. It has most things going for it, ie:-
>
> Central location, Alternate runways, Hot food & drinks all day and another
free landing voucher.
>
> The long range weather forecast at the moment favours Thursday / Friday,
but that can be reviewed as the week
> progresses.
>
> Watch this space.
>
> Regards & Safe Flying.
>
> Tony Burbidge.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot and Static |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Troy,
I have done that and it improved the ASI reading. However, I took the bung
out of the static probe and used it as a second pitot source for the
undercarriage "not down" warning when the speed falls below 70 Kts and to
start / stop the Hobbs Meter at 30Kts. Our PFA are not happy with using the
same probe / line as the ASI. A second line might come in handy one day in
the future.
William
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Pitot and Static
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
>
> Hi All,
> I have read where some have ended up disconnecting the static source and
> using the static cockpit air for the flight instruments and it work fine
if
> not better. I am contemplating not even install the second line. I would
be
> a neater install going along the pilots side of the cockpit and save a
> little weight. I wonder how many of you have disconnected yours or not
> installed it.(?)
> Troy Maynor
> N120EU Monowheel Classic
> Left to finish:
> Paint,interior,engine install, wiring.
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Fuel Pressure Rotax 914 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "mike toft" <watervet@mweb.co.za>
Hi All,
Am busy checking the engine for first flight and find that my fuel pressure is
exceeding the max allowed when BOTH pumps are turned on - its fine on each individual
pump and the necessary fuel flows are EASILY obtained in well under 1.5
mins (a la europa manual).
I've check the resistance in the return fuel line and even disconnecting the return
line my pressure is 0.4 bar (max allowable .35 bar) - the return fuel transducer
(JPI fuelscan 450) only adds another .05 bar, the fuel line adds another
0.05 bar and the return nipple with copper pipe for the fuel drains adds another
0.1 bar - all in all giving me 0.6 bar fuel pressure - way over the .35
recommended - has any one else had this problem ( btw the pumps are the standard
Rotax electrical pumps) - any ideas on a fix?
Mike Toft
#510 ZU CTG
Only the painting to go!
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: "Drop of the Hat" fly out. ( w/c Mon. 1-12-2003 ) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Tony.
Hope to be there but I have a South Coast Friend who has a Sheffield
bereavement to attend and needing accommodation to attend to which may
clash.
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Burbidge" <tony.burbidge@virgin.net>
Subject: Europa-List: "Drop of the Hat" fly out. ( w/c Mon. 1-12-2003 )
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Burbidge"
<tony.burbidge@virgin.net>
>
> Looks like Peterborough "Connington" might be a good bet for the next
meet. It has most things going for it, ie:-
>
> Central location, Alternate runways, Hot food & drinks all day and another
free landing voucher.
>
> The long range weather forecast at the moment favours Thursday / Friday,
but that can be reviewed as the week
> progresses.
>
> Watch this space.
>
> Regards & Safe Flying.
>
> Tony Burbidge.
>
>
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