Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 AM - Re: Re: Layup on Balsa TE of Trim Tabs (Miles McCallum)
2. 03:54 AM - Re: Stall Strips (Barahona Alonso, Francisco Javier)
3. 05:26 AM - Deregistration (Mike Cater)
4. 06:33 AM - test.. Do Not Archive (Peter Zutrauen)
5. 07:59 AM - Re: Electrical questions (n3eu@comcast.net)
6. 10:02 AM - fuel pressure switch (Brian Hutchinson)
7. 10:11 AM - Re: Electrical questions (Fergus Kyle)
8. 10:42 AM - Re: Electrical questions (Jos Okhuijsen)
9. 11:02 AM - voites (Michael Parkin)
10. 11:26 AM - Re: Electrical questions (Paul McAllister)
11. 11:53 AM - Test, Plese Ignore... (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle))
12. 01:01 PM - Re: Electrical questions (n3eu@comcast.net)
13. 03:52 PM - Re: Electrical questions (Jos Okhuijsen)
14. 03:53 PM - Re: fuel pressure switch (Alan Gilbert)
15. 04:02 PM - Re: Electrical questions (Jos Okhuijsen)
16. 04:54 PM - Re: Clear on Plastics (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
17. 07:27 PM - Re: monowheel positon of stab and aileron (Fergus Kyle)
18. 08:26 PM - Re: List Support Site (Timothy Ward)
19. 09:57 PM - Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft (n3eu@comcast.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Layup on Balsa TE of Trim Tabs |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Miles McCallum" <milesm@avnet.co.uk>
letgas
----- Original Message -----
From: <europa-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Layup on Balsa TE of Trim Tabs
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> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Miles McCallum" <milesm@avnet.co.uk>
>
> In my mispent youth, thrashing motorcycles around various circuits, we
> learned the same lesson - robustness was more important than ultimate
> lightness: a visit to the small brick outhouse was worth more than all the
> drilling and unobtanium you could do on the bike - nice to be in front,
but
> not worth a light if it broke before the chequered flag...
>
> Miles
>
>
> - The point I was making was that, given
> > a weight disadvantage of effectively zero, I would prefer not to pratt
> > about with balsa but use something more serviceable and durable - common
> > sense really. If it remains an issue for anyone - use hardwood
flettners
> > for robustness and then pluck your nasal hair before you fly in order to
> > achieve the same end result! !
> >
> > Alan G 497
> >
>
>
> ln
> gho
>
>
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Barahona Alonso, Francisco Javier" <Javier.Barahona@aeasa.com>
Martin, how did you trim the droop out of the right aileron?
Best regards
Javier EC-ZDH
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Michael Parkin [mailto:Mikenjulie.Parkin@btopenworld.com]
Enviado el: jueves, 11 de diciembre de 2003 23:20
Para: europa-list@matronics.com
Asunto: Re: Europa-List: Stall Strips
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin@btopenworld.com>
Carl,
I found that my classic wing europa xs had a real nasty left wing drop at
the stall, particularly in the approach configuration. I fitted the europa
stall warner which I am very pleased with. However, I noticed that although
the ailerons were perfectly aligned at the neutral position on the ground,
in the air, I noticed a slight right aileron droop with the aircraft in 1g
flight. Over a few flights I trimmed the droop out of the right aileron and
as if by magic, the stall became very tame. Both clean and approach config
stalls are now very benign. It is possible to hold the aircraft in the
stall with the stick right back and all it does is 'waddle', no nose or wing
drop - 'perfick'.
regards,
Mike G-JULZ
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Cater" <mike.cater@btopenworld.com>
Hello,
Please deregister me from the Europa-list
Thanks,
Mike Cater
Message 4
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| Subject: | test.. Do Not Archive |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
Test
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical questions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
M.J. Gregory wrote:
> ...Note that in the UK the PFA
> does not encourage the use of fuse links rather than fuses.
I once tested a #20 fusible link, using Mil Spec aircraft wire. If you pass enough
current through it, to shorten it's response time to that of a real circuit
protection device at the low end of spec, the physically tough insulation causes
a violent explosion, equivalent to a firecracker. Luckily I had a brief
moment of nonstupidity to rig the test using a remote switch! How theoretical
such a fault condition is I don't know, but a fuse means we needn't theorize.
A google search on the topic discloses there's thus preferred insulation material
-- before wire as a fusible link became obsolete years ago in automobiles....
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 6
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| Subject: | fuel pressure switch |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Hutchinson" <hutch@hangarbout.fsnet.co.uk>
Many thanks guys, for the feed back to my query about the fuel pressure switch
issue. I'm not far from Leicester, so I might pop across and sample their wares.
Announcement
I have to tell you folks that Alan Gilbert, who initiated the trim tab wedge debate,
was a regular drinking mate of mine. Following the saga, I have to announce
that I totally disown him, unless of course he arrives at my front door,
armed with a crate of beer!
If any of you want to get one back at him, just ask him how long he's been building....and
he hasn't finished the blue bits yet!!!!!!!!! Maybe he's too busy
plucking his nasal hairs...
Cheers
Brian Hutchinson
(sorry Alan....just couldn't resist it)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical questions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: <n3eu@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical questions
| --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
|
| M.J. Gregory wrote:
|
| > ...Note that in the UK the PFA
| > does not encourage the use of fuse links rather than fuses.
|
| I once tested a #20 fusible link, using Mil Spec aircraft wire. If you
pass enough current through it, to shorten it's response time to that of a
real circuit protection device at the low end of spec, the physically tough
insulation causes a violent explosion, equivalent to a firecracker. Luckily
I had a brief moment of nonstupidity to rig the test using a remote switch!
How theoretical such a fault condition is I don't know, but a fuse means we
needn't theorize. A google search on the topic discloses there's thus
preferred insulation material -- before wire as a fusible link became
obsolete years ago in automobiles....
|
| Regards,
| Fred F.
Sounds like Kapton - scourge of airliners and fighters in the 70's. John
Cliff may have kept an article on it.
Ferg
A064
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical questions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Dear Fred,
Do i take it you have something against fuseble links?
IMHO 1: A fusable link is a wiring protection device. It keeps the fire in
a place where you can affort it. It is not a device protecting item. 2:
There is no such thing as response time, it will melt if the current is
higher than the spec. That is well before the wiring behind it starts
smoking.
3: To destruct test such devices without very controlled circumstances
and
equipment is as clever as testing the airbags in your car. Yes, it will
explode. So will fuses, circuitbreakers, switches, anything if you feed
sufficient current through them. 4: Fusable links are used in cars, today
more than ever. There is no better solution to protect against wireloom
fires.
No, fusable links do not replace circuits breakers, but can do a very good
job in fire protection, especially in case of a crash. If i remember
correctly i think the thread started by somebody asking why or if he still
would need a circuit breaker while mounting a crowbar device. Yes, he will.
A circuit breaker very close to the crowbar. And a fusable link on the
battery side of the feed, if the feed is of any length would be a very good
idea, crowbar or not.
Remains my hobby horse. Are you shure you need a crowbar to add security?
Adding components is adding risk of failure. Even without direct failure,
crowbars can trip due to distant lightning, switching components of or on,
or other glitches. A false alarm with possible disastrous results. In a
worst case scenario with a running wild generator, an overvoltage warning
and a manual generator switch could do the same, but in your control and
reversible.
Overvoltage sensitive devices in our airplane have (or should have!)their
own protection.
Jos Okhuijsen
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Parkin" <Mikenjulie.Parkin@btopenworld.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: <europa-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Stall Strips
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> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Parkin"
<Mikenjulie.Parkin@btopenworld.com>
>
> Carl,
>
> I found that my classic wing europa xs had a real nasty left wing drop at
> the stall, particularly in the approach configuration. I fitted the
europa
> stall warner which I am very pleased with. However, I noticed that
although
> the ailerons were perfectly aligned at the neutral position on the ground,
> in the air, I noticed a slight right aileron droop with the aircraft in 1g
> flight. Over a few flights I trimmed the droop out of the right aileron
and
> as if by magic, the stall became very tame. Both clean and approach
config
> stalls are now very benign. It is possible to hold the aircraft in the
> stall with the stick right back and all it does is 'waddle', no nose or
wing
> drop - 'perfick'.
>
> regards,
>
> Mike G-JULZ
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Europa-List: Stall Strips
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
> >
> > In response to my enquiry about stall strips, I received the following
> > helpful advice from Andy Draper. It explains exactly why we fit stall
> strips
> > and what you should be looking out for when there is a wing dropping
> > problem.
> >
> > I have added my comments at the end.
> >
>
>
> hP
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical questions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
>
> Remains my hobby horse. Are you shure you need a crowbar to add security?
> Adding components is adding risk of failure. Even without direct failure,
> crowbars can trip due to distant lightning, switching components of or on,
> or other glitches. A false alarm with possible disastrous results. In a
> worst case scenario with a running wild generator, an overvoltage warning
> and a manual generator switch could do the same, but in your control and
> reversible.
> Overvoltage sensitive devices in our airplane have (or should have!)their
> own protection.
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
Ahh... there in lies my concern with adding a crow bar protection:
1. False triggering will unload the alternator, possibly damaging the
voltage regulator.
2. Triggering of the device will add to the pilot load, and with a crowbar
device you have no way of determining if you have a legitimate OVP
situation.
3. It adds a bunch more parts to the system.
4. It is not clear to me if the rotax alternator even has enough capacity
to create an OVP situation..
5. The only documented regulator failures I have been able to find so far
are where the output declines.
So, I am at the point where I have all of the components required to add
crowbar protection, but I am unsure if its really a great idea. I am
leaning towards just adding a 30 amp circuit breaker and setting over
voltage alarms on my EIS.
I'd welcome more input on this topic as I remain undecided.
Paul
Message 11
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| Subject: | Test, Plese Ignore... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Testing, please ignore.
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical questions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
Jos Okhuijsen wrote:
> Do i take it you have something against fuseble links?
Not really, just against Tefzel insulated wire as a fusible link verses what you
should use, or in an application where only a 25-cent fuse is needed. Tefzel
can explode violently.
> Yes, it will explode. So will fuses, circuit breakers, switches, anything
> if you feed sufficient current through them.
Just moments ago I fed several hundred amps across a 25A automotive blade fuse.
No fun! It faintly but audibly clicked; the translucent plastic is not even
discolored. How do I make it explode?
> No, fusable links do not replace circuits breakers, but can do a very good
> job in fire protection, especially in case of a crash.
Actually fusible links do replace CB's, in high-current apps due to relative cost.
I don't understand the safety problem, if you're talking a wire-type fusible
link vs. a fuse or CB. Interesting, though, that auto mfrs are tending toward
battery terminal clamps which are also a fusible link. It would be possible,
though more likely in a metal airplane, where a shorted battery cable as
a result of a crash could start a fire not otherwise occurring. Such technology
hasn't reached production airplanes yet.
> There is no such thing as response time,
It's rather called the time/current curve, published for all circuit protection
devices, and it governs the design selection among fuses vs. fusible links, vs.
CB's. You could win a bet from many people by insisting they can't pop a 5A
breaker with 6 amps. They won't see a need to wait out the time it will probably
take to do so.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical questions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Can't talk about tefzel, i just don't know the stuff. I assume that a
fusable link of some quality has an isolation that does not explode or even
maintain a fire.
>> Yes, it will explode. So will fuses, circuit breakers, switches,
>> anything
>> if you feed sufficient current through them.
>
> Just moments ago I fed several hundred amps across a 25A automotive blade
> fuse. No fun! It faintly but audibly clicked; the translucent plastic is
> not even discolored. How do I make it explode?
How did you measure that "several hundred" ? I said sufficient amps, in a
test lab that could be like thousands. The point is, that somewhere there
is a spec sheet of these items. Check on that, and you will find a maximum
current that can safely blow a fuse or fusable link. Above that interesting
effects do occur. What you do in your workshop, however interesting, should
not be used as an argument to convince the innocent :-)
> Actually fusible links do replace CB's, in high-current apps due to
> relative cost.
A fusable link as a cost effective replacement? That would be very much a
penny wise, pound foolish decision. Circuit breakers, fuses and fuseble
links each have their own best application, best place in the circuit. Cost
should the least of important factor aboard a homebuild, but fire
protection, protection of the rest of the equipment in case of a failure,
and reliability are way more important. The first place in the circuit
where a fuseble link comes to mind is isolation of the battery, on or very
close to the battery.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen,tailplane builder
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: fuel pressure switch |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Gilbert" <alangilbert@classicfm.net>
Don't apologise mate. I readily confess to taking two and a half years to
finish off the blue stuff and that was without even following your example
of drilling lightening holes in my balsa flettners! ! I should have doubted
the wisdom of your advice, particularly when I noticed the similarity of
your twin nasal orifices with my living room shag pile. . .take it from me,
you'll never leave the ground! ! !
Still, I have decided to return to the build now that I've been disowned by
the Doris, I've finally got the free time that this project demands - don't
hold yer breath but . . . .
Alan G 497
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Hutchinson" <hutch@hangarbout.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: fuel pressure switch
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Hutchinson"
<hutch@hangarbout.fsnet.co.uk>
>
> Many thanks guys, for the feed back to my query about the fuel pressure
switch issue. I'm not far from Leicester, so I might pop across and sample
their wares.
>
> Announcement
> I have to tell you folks that Alan Gilbert, who initiated the trim tab
wedge debate, was a regular drinking mate of mine. Following the saga, I
have to announce that I totally disown him, unless of course he arrives at
my front door, armed with a crate of beer!
> If any of you want to get one back at him, just ask him how long he's been
building....and he hasn't finished the blue bits yet!!!!!!!!! Maybe he's
too busy plucking his nasal hairs...
>
> Cheers
>
> Brian Hutchinson
>
> (sorry Alan....just couldn't resist it)
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical questions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
> So, I am at the point where I have all of the components required to add
> crowbar protection, but I am unsure if its really a great idea. I am
> leaning towards just adding a 30 amp circuit breaker and setting over
> voltage alarms on my EIS.
>
Assuming you can switch off your generator in case of on an overvoltage
alarm, i would be happy with that, if it was my own plane. I will not add a
crowbar.
> I'd welcome more input on this topic as I remain undecided.
You can also be sure a lot of people will explain to you why you absolutely
need to have a crowbar installed :-)
Jos Okhuijsen
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Clear on Plastics |
12/12/2003 07:53:33 PM,
Serialize complete at 12/12/2003 07:53:33 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Ron,
don't use wax paper. it will surely dissolve into the resin and ruin the
work.
Use the recommended material from ACS
Ira N224XS
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: monowheel positon of stab and aileron |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: monowheel positon of stab and aileron
| --> Europa-List message posted by:
|
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
| To: "EUROPALIST" <europa-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: Europa-List: monowheel positon of stab and aileron
CAUTION!
On the 11th December 2003 at about 0930EST, I published to the net a
long detailed discussion about the position of the controls in a quartering
tailwind, albeit in a reply to an honest question posted..
As you may see above, I received my copy at 1600EST and loving my
caress of the language, read it.
How may I say what absolute nonsense it was. I got it wrong, wrong,
wrong and if you haven't trashed it already, do so now. I promise I to
change my medication instantly. It was meant in all sincerity but somehow it
came out very wrong.
I will admit to having SOME details correct, but the gist of the
discussion was completely erroneous. I apologise and will read my diatribes
more carefully in future. Mind you, I think the stick still goes downwind
but not in a Europa mono, and if it takes prop airflow to cancel the
tailwind component, should we be taxying?
Sincerely,
Ferg
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: List Support Site |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Timothy Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
John,
Your cheque has arrived with thanks.
Cheers,
Tim
John Cliff wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff" <mx@crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Two new items.
>
> One is pictures of the propeller tip guards and the angled fuel filler pipe
> which Tim Ward offered to supply a few days ago, plus another picture of the
> control stick boots he has been arranging to get for some time. See
> http://www.crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk/Misc/boots.htm
>
> The other is the inclusion of Bob Harrison's pictures of his wing rigging aids
> (which were put on Matronics' Photo Share site s few days ago) in the group of
> pages describing his Europa. See
> http://www.crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk/BobH/Rigging/rig.htm
>
> New readers start at http://www.crix.org.uk
>
> John Cliff
> #0259
>
--
Timothy P Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
NEW ZEALAND
Ph. 0064 3 3515166
email ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Mobile 025 2649325
Message 19
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| Subject: | Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
This subject has been periodically of interest, and while web browsing other EAA
chapter sites for ideas to envigorate our EAA Chapter, I came upon an interesting
item.
Go to http://eaa127.tripod.com. Click Newsletters and select June, 2002. There you will see results of a strike to a parked Glasair. Lightning normally pierces fiberglass without much ado, but if arcing occurs between conductive members inside to complete the path from/to earth, you have potential for a big bomb. Else this was a Al Qae'da terrorist aircraft smuggling explosive plastique in the tailcone.
If you can't browse a color PDF document, I can email any requester a 19kb picture
of same.
Regards,
Fred F.
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