Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft (William Mills)
2. 05:27 AM - New Zealand visit (James Naylor)
3. 08:59 AM - MT03 Spacers needed. (Jeff Roberts)
4. 10:14 AM - Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft (n3eu@comcast.net)
5. 11:02 AM - stall warners (Graham Singleton)
6. 11:17 AM - Kitty Hawk (Graham Singleton)
7. 11:36 AM - Paint coverage (Rob Housman)
8. 11:46 AM - Headsets? (Guil Barros)
9. 11:57 AM - Re: Headsets? (n3eu@comcast.net)
10. 12:22 PM - Re: Headsets? (Paul McAllister)
11. 01:13 PM - Re: Stall Warning device errors (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
12. 01:21 PM - Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft (n3eu@comcast.net)
13. 01:51 PM - Re: Kitty Hawk (Jim Puglise)
14. 01:59 PM - Re: Europa Club Website & Mozilla (Rowland Carson)
15. 02:39 PM - Re: Kitty Hawk (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
16. 02:48 PM - Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft (Carl & Dot)
17. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: Stall Warning device errors (Carl & Dot)
18. 03:25 PM - Re: Fitting Stall Stips (Carl & Dot)
19. 03:56 PM - Europa Video? (Guil Barros)
20. 04:30 PM - Re: Paint coverage (Kevin Klinefelter)
21. 04:48 PM - Re: Europa Club Website & Mozilla (JW)
22. 05:13 PM - Re: Europa Club Website & Mozilla (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
23. 06:09 PM - Re: Europa Video? (Peter Zutrauen)
24. 09:48 PM - Re: Europa Club Website & Mozilla (Jos Okhuijsen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Hi All,
According to the AAIB at the last PFA Rally at Kemble, aircraft do not
attract lightening, so it will only strike if the aircraft flies through the
path of lightening when it is already travelling. This is my understanding
of what was said. I therefore try to give CBs a wide birth.
Regards,
William
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft
> --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
> There were two other events I read about envolving lightning strikes on
> composite aircraft recently. One, a Lanceair broke apart in flight after
an
> apparent lightning strike killing all 4 on board. Another involved a
glider, an ASW
> 25 I think, that came apart in flight after a lighting strike. Both the
> pilot/instructor and student parachuted out safely. Kinda makes you wonder
about
> using conductive fuel lines in a "plastic" airplane, doesn't it?
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245 (Wings closed up, gear on, flap actuator mounted, working on baggage
> bay and shop heat, but mostly shop heat)
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | New Zealand visit |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "James Naylor" <jimnaylor.44@virgin.net>
Pam and I will be in New Zealand during January and February. If any Europa
flyers/builders/interested parties would like a chat with a veteran of 8+
years Europa flying, and maybe share a beer, we would love to meet you.
Please reply off list to save boring the others.
Jim Naylor
Message 3
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| Subject: | MT03 Spacers needed. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
I am missing 2 of the MT03 spacers for the lord mounts in my firewall
forward package I received, with no sign of when they will be sent. I have
looked in ACS catalog for tubing, have called every hardware & specialty
store in Nashville and havent come up with anything the same ID and OD.
Looks like I will need to pay a machine shop to create them.
Would like to know what others have used if anything other than the original
ones and where they found them.
Thanks in advance,
Jeff
Tri Gear A258
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> Hi All,
> According to the AAIB at the last PFA Rally at Kemble, aircraft do not
> attract lightening, so it will only strike if the aircraft flies through the
> path of lightening when it is already travelling. This is my understanding
> of what was said. I therefore try to give CBs a wide birth.
> Regards,
> William
Perhaps the AAIB guy didn't come across so clearly, or the "dog ate his homework."
The below research document is long and technical, but the very first sentence
will do: "Not until the 1980's was it convincingly demonstrated that the
vast majority of lightning strikes to aircraft are initiated by the aircraft,
as opposed to the aircraft's intercepting a discharge in progress."
http://plaza.ufl.edu/rakov/ProgressinAerospaceSciencespaper.pdf
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 13/12/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Whilst stall strips improve warning of an impending stall, if fitted in a
>position where they do that job, they can also raise the stall speed (by
>5kts in some cases) which
>rather negates the benefit. Stall warners do not degrade the aerodynamics
>and can easily be set to give a warning at any desired speed/AOA.
>
>Nigel Charles
agreed, but I would add that as Andy hinted, they are definitely very
desirable on an aircraft with a vicious flaps down stall. They can be
adjusted to make the stall benign. When the situation gets tricky, close to
the ground,confusing cross wind visual effects etc, IOW High Workload,
warnings tend to be ignored, particular by pilots with low currency, which
a lot of builders are.
Never think it won't happen to you, I suspect I used to think that, needed
short field performance and had no stall strips. I proved myself wrong.
Graham
---
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
> The Wrights were the first home builders and I will be thinking
>about all of you that are building your own.
>John, A230
Not the first, What about Lilienthal, Percy Pilcher and many others, Glen
Curtiss too. They were the first to demonstrate powered flight but that was
all. Many others flew and soared.
I hope the beaurocrats and nimbies in the US (and everywhere else) don't
suppress the enthusiasm of people like the Wrights and stop them advancing
human achievements.
Graham
---
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Having asked both the Europa factory and Poly-Fiber how much paint is
required to finish a Europa and received the same answer (the e-mail
equivalent of a blank stare) I offer the forum the benefit of my experience:
a one gallon can of Poly-Fibers primer is sufficient for the first three
coats of primer applied with a roller per Poly-Fibers instructions. A
small amount of primer remained.
Not knowing what to expect I guessed at my first batch of primer, 16 ounces,
which covered the entire fuselage plus both tailplanes. From that
experience I guessed that I would need less for covering the remaining
surfaces and made 8 ounce and 4 ounce batches, depending on whether I was
painting the XS wings or various foam-core parts.
For those of you (i. e., the rest of the civilized world) not burdened with
our archaic system of measurement inherited from our former colonial masters
I apologize for the gallons and ounces. The logic escapes me, but for some
odd reason Poly-Fibers hardener is added to the paint at a ratio of 8 cc
per 16 ounces, so I guess that maybe we are making some progress. More
likely though, no one manufactures syringes calibrated in ounces.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete (and primed)
Irvine, CA
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Guil Barros <flight@metathusalan.com>
Looking to get a new headset for the new year, what are peoples suggestions?
what have you been using and how do you like it?
i like the features/value of the Lightspeed 20 3G, love the way the DavidC 10.3
feels, am in awe of the bose... dont think ill be spending the cash on the
bose though... and would really like ANR...
thoughts,
-guil
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> Looking to get a new headset for the new year, what are peoples suggestions?
> what have you been using and how do you like it?
>
> i like the features/value of the Lightspeed 20 3G, love the way the DavidC 10.3
> feels, am in awe of the bose... dont think ill be spending the cash on the
> bose though... and would really like ANR...
> thoughts,
> -guil
I have the David Clark ANR model, which is pretty good, and also the ANR kit I
installed in an old Peltor headset. A bit different flavor of active noise reduction,
but just as satisfactory, and the Peltor more comfortable:
http://www.anr-headsets.com/
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Guil,
If you can wait until a big airshow Lightspeed often have a booth set up
which allows you to compare their product against many of the competitors.
They didn't have a Bose to try, but I did give them a go at the Bose stand
and they are very nice.
I own some Lightspeed 25k's. I am pretty happy with them, but after about 4
hours of flight I am glad to take them off, actually after 4 hours of flight
I am glad to do a lot of things.
Cheers, Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guil Barros" <flight@metathusalan.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Headsets?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Guil Barros <flight@metathusalan.com>
>
> Looking to get a new headset for the new year, what are peoples
suggestions?
> what have you been using and how do you like it?
>
> i like the features/value of the Lightspeed 20 3G, love the way the DavidC
10.3
> feels, am in awe of the bose... dont think ill be spending the cash on
the
> bose though... and would really like ANR...
>
>
> thoughts,
> -guil
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning device errors |
--> Europa-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 12/13/03 11:57:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
Stall warners do not degrade the aerodynamics
and can easily be set to give a warning at any desired speed/AOA.
Stall warning devices such as the leading edge vane can only give warning
at one fixed flap setting correctly. This is why they are so much of a
nuisance. They must be set to go off when the stagnation point of the airflow
changes and moves the vane upward, closing a micro switch which make the light
or
horn go off. This must be at the lowest AOA which a stall can occur, otherwise
it would not give stall protection with the wing in that configuration.
For a stall warning to be accurate and reliable it must have some sort of
method of correcting for flap position.
To certify an aircraft in the US, the stall warning must go off a minimum of
5 kts above the stall. This is in the flaps up configuration, which is why
the stall warners are so inaccurate on all light production aircraft with the
flaps down, especially aircraft with very effective flaps.
You can set your stall warning for flaps extended on your experimental
aircraft, but then you wouldn't have adequate stall warning protection with the
flaps up.
Elbie
Old CFI
EM aviation
www.riteangle.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> Hi All,
> According to the AAIB at the last PFA Rally at Kemble, aircraft do not
> attract lightening, so it will only strike if the aircraft flies
> through the path of lightening when it is already travelling. This
> is my understanding of what was said. I therefore try to give CBs a
> wide birth.
> Regards,
> William
If that was an exact quote, the AAIB representative may have been winging it, or
"the dog ate his homework." The below research paper is long and technical,
but the first sentence is in plain English: "Not until the 1980's was it convincingly
demonstrated that the vast majority of lightning strikes to aircraft
are initiated by the aircraft, as opposed to the aircraft's intercepting a discharge
in progress."
http://plaza.ufl.edu/rakov/ProgressinAerospaceSciencespaper.pdf
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 13
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Puglise" <jim_puglise@hotmail.com>
Do not archive.
I don't mean to start a furor, but since we have a number of NZ builders in
the Group, I wanted to get a comment. I was in NZ several years ago and
they have an aircraft in the Motat in Auckland built by a man named Pierce
that they claim (as I remember) flew under powered controlled flight several
weeks before the Wrights. Am I remembering correctly? Comments from the
builders in NZ.
Jim -
Tri gear kit to be delivered.
>From: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk
>Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:06:26 +0000
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton
><graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
>
>
> > The Wrights were the first home builders and I will be thinking
> >about all of you that are building your own.
> >John, A230
>
>Not the first, What about Lilienthal, Percy Pilcher and many others, Glen
>Curtiss too. They were the first to demonstrate powered flight but that was
>all. Many others flew and soared.
>
>I hope the beaurocrats and nimbies in the US (and everywhere else) don't
>suppress the enthusiasm of people like the Wrights and stop them advancing
>human achievements.
>Graham
>
>
>---
>
>
Browse styles for all ages, from the latest looks to cozy weekend wear at
MSN Shopping. And check out the beauty products! http://shopping.msn.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Club Website & Mozilla |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2003 12 13 21:14 -0600 Guil Barros wrote:
>the EuropaClub website doesnt work in non-IE browsers
>its VERY bad form to have a community site that doesnt follow
>established standards
Guil - thanks for your heads-up. I'm replying publicly as I think
it's important people know what Europa Club policy is on this matter.
Webmaster Jeremy may have comments to offer also!
First, several features of the website are broken at present because
Aviators Network have failed offer us a reliable service. Normally,
the extra choices are also visible along the top of the current
frame, so you can get at them from there instead of using the
plus-symbol pop-ups. The "no-frames" option relies upon the choices
along the top of the page for all navigation.
Second, the Europa Club Committee gave our VOLUNTEER webmaster
guidelines to make the site as universally accessible as possible,
before he started designing the site. Within the limitations of the
Microsoft tools he is limited to, he has tried to observe those
guidelines, while minimising his own workload and making the pages as
attractive and modern-looking as possible. He has responded to the
whinings of mac users like myself in the past when we complained that
standards-compliant browsers such as iCab and Safari can't use the
site.
No doubt when (soon) we are established on a new host, things will
look much better.
If anyone wishes to know about this aspect of Club policy in more
detail, I can supply a copy of the above-mentioned website guidelines
document as approved by the Europa Club Committee - please contact me
off-list at <europa-club@rowil.clara.net> if you want to see it.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (660 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
Actually it was several months before. We had the Richard Pearce
memorial day last May.
Mind you, we do also acknowledge the Wright Brothers and there are plans
underway for over 100 aircraft to do a fly by of Auckland City at 18:00
hours on the 17th.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Puglise [mailto:jim_puglise@hotmail.com]
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Puglise"
--> <jim_puglise@hotmail.com>
Do not archive.
I don't mean to start a furor, but since we have a number of NZ builders
in the Group, I wanted to get a comment. I was in NZ several years ago
and they have an aircraft in the Motat in Auckland built by a man named
Pierce that they claim (as I remember) flew under powered controlled
flight several
weeks before the Wrights. Am I remembering correctly? Comments from
the
builders in NZ.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
If composite aircraft were truly composite only and contained no metal
components (or other conductive materials) them lightning strikes would be
much less likely I suspect. Some reports of composite aircraft lightning
strikes (in particular gliders) would suggest it is the metal components
that give rise to a problem.
I remember an accident report roughly 10 years ago when a glider from
Dunstable gliding club flew to close to an area of Cumulo Nimbus activity.
From memory I seem to recall that one minute the glider was happily
thermalling and the next minute there was an explosion and the occupants
found themselves falling out of the sky along with thousands of pieces of
broken glider. Apart from a broken leg (the instructor landed on the roof of
a petrol station) there were no other physical injuries.
The examination of the wreckage confirmed that the aileron push rods acted
like a massive piece of fuse wire, causing an explosion when the
high-voltage was applied across the tubes. Clearly a case of the current
taking the path of least resistance.
Taking this illustration as an example it would be untrue to say that
aircraft do not attract lightning strikes. As aircraft are inevitably more
conductive than the air in which they are flying they are almost certain to
offer the lightning a path through which to travel. This assumes that there
is a voltage differential from one end of the aircraft the other and
certainly the above report would suggest that this is the case. Also by
virtue of the fact that composite aircraft (in particular) generate an
electrical charge as they pass through the air at high speed they will
attain a voltage potential of their own and again this would attract any
electrical charges in the air through which they are moving.
----- Original Message -----
From: <n3eu@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft
> --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
>
> > Hi All,
> > According to the AAIB at the last PFA Rally at Kemble, aircraft do not
> > attract lightening, so it will only strike if the aircraft flies
> > through the path of lightening when it is already travelling. This
> > is my understanding of what was said. I therefore try to give CBs a
> > wide birth.
>
> > Regards,
> > William
>
> If that was an exact quote, the AAIB representative may have been winging
it, or "the dog ate his homework." The below research paper is long and
technical, but the first sentence is in plain English: "Not until the 1980's
was it convincingly demonstrated that the vast majority of lightning strikes
to aircraft are initiated by the aircraft, as opposed to the aircraft's
intercepting a discharge in progress."
>
> http://plaza.ufl.edu/rakov/ProgressinAerospaceSciencespaper.pdf
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning device errors |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
The Europa stall warner, as supplied by the factory is not a leading edge
vane but a hole drilled in the leading-edge of the wing which detects
changes in pressure.
From our own experience of this particular stall warner there is no
discernible difference in the warning given whether the flats are up or
down. We recently conducted our annual test flight and both with the flaps
up and down the warning buzzer sounded five knots prior to the stall.
The stall warner is activated by a pressure switch which is manually
adjusted when the stall warner is initially setup. We were lucky, and no
adjustment was ever necessary, but it is my opinion that there is such a
dramatic change in pressure when the wing is on point of stalling that the
very coarse adjustment would be required to make any difference. I may be
wrong in this assumption and if anyone knows differently perhaps they would
say.
For my money a five knot warning is more than adequate and with Europa this
seems to be true whether the flats are up or down. Whether this is a factor
relating to the Europa factory stall warner or to the design of the Europa
classic wing I do not know.
----- Original Message -----
From: <RiteAngle3@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Stall Warning device errors
> --> Europa-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/13/03 11:57:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> Stall warners do not degrade the aerodynamics
> and can easily be set to give a warning at any desired speed/AOA.
> Stall warning devices such as the leading edge vane can only give
warning
> at one fixed flap setting correctly. This is why they are so much of a
> nuisance. They must be set to go off when the stagnation point of the
airflow
> changes and moves the vane upward, closing a micro switch which make the
light or
> horn go off. This must be at the lowest AOA which a stall can occur,
otherwise
> it would not give stall protection with the wing in that configuration.
> For a stall warning to be accurate and reliable it must have some sort
of
> method of correcting for flap position.
> To certify an aircraft in the US, the stall warning must go off a minimum
of
> 5 kts above the stall. This is in the flaps up configuration, which is
why
> the stall warners are so inaccurate on all light production aircraft with
the
> flaps down, especially aircraft with very effective flaps.
>
> You can set your stall warning for flaps extended on your experimental
> aircraft, but then you wouldn't have adequate stall warning protection
with the
> flaps up.
>
> Elbie
> Old CFI
> EM aviation
> www.riteangle.com
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting Stall Stips |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
Firstly, thanks to all who replied with their suggestions/ experiences, in
particular Andy from Europa Aviation.
I think that a stall warner is a better way of pre empting an imminent stall
than the stall strips as the degree of warning can be adjusted more easily
than with stall strips, however where an aircraft has adverse stalling
characteristics (ie: a marked wing drop), then the simplest way to even out
the wing drop is to use stall strips.
According to Andy, the correct fitment of stall strips should not degrade
the performance of the wings or raise the stalling speed..
As I have an aircraft with a pronounced wing drop, I intend to try and
correct this by using stall strips. There is already an electric stall
warner fitted.
Hopefully this will be done sometime in the next month and I will document
this process to see whether there is any marked change in the aircrafts
flying characteristics. Before doing this we may try altering the alignment
of the ailerons as suggested by Mike Parkin (thanks for the idea).
Carl,
I found that my classic wing europa xs had a real nasty left wing drop at
the stall, particularly in the approach configuration. I fitted the europa
stall warner which I am very pleased with. However, I noticed that although
the ailerons were perfectly aligned at the neutral position on the ground,
in the air, I noticed a slight right aileron droop with the aircraft in 1g
flight. Over a few flights I trimmed the droop out of the right aileron and
as if by magic, the stall became very tame. Both clean and approach config
stalls are now very benign. It is possible to hold the aircraft in the
stall with the stick right back and all it does is 'waddle', no nose or wing
drop - 'perfick'.
regards,
Mike G-JULZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fitting Stall Stips
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles"
<nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> >Does anyone that is flying have any views regarding the fitment of stall
> strips. We were initially advised that these were a bad idea and that an
> electric stall warner was a better option. From what I remember, stall
> strips are supposed to have an adverse effect on the landing
characteristics
> of the aircraft.<
>
> Whilst stall strips improve warning of an impending stall, if fitted in a
> position where they do that job, they can also raise the stall speed (by
> 5kts in some cases) which
> rather negates the benefit. Stall warners do not degrade the aerodynamics
> and can easily be set to give a warning at any desired speed/AOA.
>
> Nigel Charles
>
>
Message 19
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Guil Barros <flight@metathusalan.com>
Hows is the video that europa sells? is it worth the money? do they make a dvd?
(tape medium is evil :)
thx,
-guil
Message 20
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
Hi Rob,
Thanks for that bit of info. I have rolled three coats of smooth prime onto
the tailfeathers and was curious as to how far the gallon might take me. Do
you plan to spray on three more? And are you going to do the paint yourself
also?
Kevin, Airframe complete, filling and sanding in Bishop CA.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Subject: Europa-List: Paint coverage
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Having asked both the Europa factory and Poly-Fiber how much paint is
required to finish a Europa and received the same answer (the e-mail
equivalent of a blank stare) I offer the forum the benefit of my experience:
a one gallon can of Poly-Fibers primer is sufficient for the first three
coats of primer applied with a roller per Poly-Fibers instructions. A
small amount of primer remained.
Not knowing what to expect I guessed at my first batch of primer, 16 ounces,
which covered the entire fuselage plus both tailplanes. From that
experience I guessed that I would need less for covering the remaining
surfaces and made 8 ounce and 4 ounce batches, depending on whether I was
painting the XS wings or various foam-core parts.
For those of you (i. e., the rest of the civilized world) not burdened with
our archaic system of measurement inherited from our former colonial masters
I apologize for the gallons and ounces. The logic escapes me, but for some
odd reason Poly-Fibers hardener is added to the paint at a ratio of 8 cc
per 16 ounces, so I guess that maybe we are making some progress. More
likely though, no one manufactures syringes calibrated in ounces.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete (and primed)
Irvine, CA
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Club Website & Mozilla |
--> Europa-List message posted by: JW <xs191@comcast.net>
Roland.
There is the slight possibility that Jeremy may be somewhat biased, being
a Microsoft employee. ;-) I too avoid using IE unless absolutely forced to
do so. I also stick to Mozilla, or more accurately the stand alone Mozilla
browser only called Firebird, (http://www.mozilla.org/products/firebird/) and
the stand alone Mozilla email client called Thunderbird.
(http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/ I think the stand alone
products are slightly faster than the combined Mozilla product. I was
introduced to 'tabbed' browsing with Opera, but switched to Mozilla when they
started using it a couple years ago.
Jeff
Rowland Carson wrote:
>
>
> Guil - thanks for your heads-up. I'm replying publicly as I think
> it's important people know what Europa Club policy is on this matter.
> Webmaster Jeremy may have comments to offer also!
Message 22
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| Subject: | Europa Club Website & Mozilla |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>> There is the slight possibility that Jeremy may be somewhat
biased, being
a Microsoft employee. ;-)
Actually I think that he built the site before going to work for
Microsoft. As he has given his time voluntarily to build the web site I
think he should be free to use the tools that he's most familiar with.
When I do volunteer work for groups and people criticise the end result
I always offer them the opportunity to take over the role. That way they
have to opportunity to implement the changes themselves. It's funny but
not too many people take up the offer.
:)
Regards
Tony
Do not archive
Message 23
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
It's addictive to many of us non-flying builders (inspirational at times
too) :-)
IMHO, it's nicely produced, with many shots of the plane in action, both
from within and from a formation perspective. A _quick_ overview of the
plane's basic construction concepts is also shown.
In my case the video gave me enough of the reason to go to OSH and go
for a demo flight after 2 years of researching the kit market. It's the
demo flight which will likely sell you on the plane. When they claim in
the video and marketing materials that this is a 'very well harmonized
plane' they weren't just throwing out another marketing line - it is
indeed everything they claim wrt handling.
Get the video & and go for a flight!
Cheers,
Pete
A239
-----Original Message-----
From: Guil Barros [mailto:flight@metathusalan.com]
Subject: Europa-List: Europa Video?
--> Europa-List message posted by: Guil Barros <flight@metathusalan.com>
Hows is the video that europa sells? is it worth the money? do they make
a dvd?
(tape medium is evil :)
thx,
-guil
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Club Website & Mozilla |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
> a Microsoft employee. ;-) I too avoid using IE unless absolutely forced
> to
> do so. I also stick to Mozilla, or more accurately the stand alone
> Mozilla
> browser only called Firebird,
> (http://www.mozilla.org/products/firebird/) and
> the stand alone Mozilla email client called Thunderbird.
> (http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/ I think the stand alone
> products are slightly faster than the combined Mozilla product. I was
As someone mentioned before, the problem is with the server, not the
content. Jeremy solved that one a long time ago. I am using mozilla, latest
build on one machine and opera (my favourite email proggie too) on another.
Don't like microsoft either, apart from flight simulater. No problems
during the period the server was working properly.
Jos
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
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