Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:38 AM - Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft (Martin Shaw)
2. 02:16 AM - Flying with European Europa in USA (Klaus Dietrich)
3. 02:57 AM - rapiro (James Naylor)
4. 02:57 AM - Re: Kitty Hawk (Paul Bunting)
5. 03:09 AM - Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft (William Mills)
6. 04:19 AM - Re: Kitty Hawk (R.C.Harrison)
7. 05:56 AM - Re: Headsets? (STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2)
8. 06:12 AM - Re: Flying with European Europa in USA (KARL HEINDL)
9. 08:05 AM - Re: Headsets? (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
10. 08:19 AM - Composites and "finality" of closings (Guil Barros)
11. 08:39 AM - Re: Headsets? (Dj Merrill)
12. 08:54 AM - Re: Flying with European Europa in USA (Rob Housman)
13. 09:22 AM - website for aircraft parts (Rowland Carson)
14. 09:23 AM - Re: Headsets? (Paul Boulet)
15. 09:32 AM - Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft (Alex Kaarsberg)
16. 09:33 AM - Re: Parachutes (Terry Seaver)
17. 09:40 AM - Re: Flying with European Europa in USA (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
18. 09:42 AM - Re: Parachutes (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
19. 10:51 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite aircraft (Paul Atkinson)
20. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite aircraft (Jos Okhuijsen)
21. 01:16 PM - 17/12/03 UK Event (Fly-in!!) (Ami McFadyean)
22. 03:32 PM - Europa for sale (Paul Boulet)
23. 04:35 PM - Re: Parachutes (DJA727@aol.com)
24. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite aircraft (KARL HEINDL)
25. 07:51 PM - Re: Flying with European Europa in USA (Steve Hagar)
26. 08:18 PM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite aircraft (n3eu@comcast.net)
27. 09:31 PM - Fill tools? (Ronald J. Parigoris)
28. 09:32 PM - Re: Flying with European Europa in USA (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
29. 10:59 PM - Re: Composites and "finality" of closings (Kingsley Hurst)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Martin Shaw" <jm.shaw@ntlworld.com>
That certainly ties in with my experience of 3+ decades of flying large tin
cans around the world. Lightning can strike out an amazingly long way from
its parent Cb. If there's any lightning activity around I would strongly
recommend staying in the bar rather than risking flight in a plastic
aeroplane.
ATB
Martin Shaw.
----- Original Message -----
From: <n3eu@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft
> --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
>
> > Hi All,
> > According to the AAIB at the last PFA Rally at Kemble, aircraft do not
> > attract lightening, so it will only strike if the aircraft flies through
the
> > path of lightening when it is already travelling. This is my
understanding
> > of what was said. I therefore try to give CBs a wide birth.
> > Regards,
> > William
>
> Perhaps the AAIB guy didn't come across so clearly, or the "dog ate his
homework." The below research document is long and technical, but the very
first sentence will do: "Not until the 1980's was it convincingly
demonstrated that the vast majority of lightning strikes to aircraft are
initiated by the aircraft, as opposed to the aircraft's intercepting a
discharge in progress."
>
> http://plaza.ufl.edu/rakov/ProgressinAerospaceSciencespaper.pdf
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Flying with European Europa in USA |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Klaus Dietrich <Klaus.Dietrich@oracle.com>
I want to fulfill my dream of flying my Europa around the US and attend
also Oshkosh....
As I'm not brave enough to cross the big pond in my little Europa, I was
planning to have her shipped in a container on the trailer, assemble her
once in the US and than enjoy flying across the country....
Could anybody give me some info on the regulation in place to fly a
european registered plane in the US?
Also any advise on the container shipping would be welcomed.
Thanks
Klaus (MkI, OE-CKD)
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "James Naylor" <jimnaylor.44@virgin.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Forum" <europa-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Zealand visit
> Your email message was temporarily blocked by my spam
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> --> Europa-List message posted by: "James Naylor"
<jimnaylor.44@virgin.net>
>
> Pam and I will be in New Zealand during January and February. If any
Europa
> flyers/builders/interested parties would like a chat with a veteran of 8+
> years Europa flying, and maybe share a beer, we would love to meet you.
> Please reply off list to save boring the others.
> Jim Naylor
>
>
> gcol
>
>
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Bunting" <paul.bunting@developtheweb.com>
Hi Guys,
Just thought I would add my two pence, to the discussion...
There is no doubt that the Wright Brothers helped get flying of the
ground and they may very well lay claim to one of the first 'controlled
& powered flight of an aircraft'. It should be acknowledged however that
they don't lay claim to the first flight of an aircraft nor do they lay
claim to the first powered flight aircraft.
It should be remembered that through-out the 19th century, in many
societies, those who sought flight where seen as crackpots and were
ridiculed for their activities, meaning many of them did so in private
or in secret, so we will probably never know who the true first fliers
were!
We should remember those that went before the Wright Brothers, those
that are recorded and those that are not... Sir George Cayley was
designing aircraft as early as 1799 and was flying gliders in the mid
19th century. The first 'recorded' controlled glider flight in 1853 (150
years ago) which almost no one seems to have celebrated, was made by
John Appleby, Sir George Cayley's coachman, in one of Sir Cayley's
gliders, though John Appleby was not the first, the first was one of Sir
Cayley's servant boys. (this flight was recently re-enacted by Richard
Branson, from memory I believe the replica glider flew for around 150m
before crash-landing in a field)
Indeed he was not the only one, John Stringfellow, born in 1799, was
also designing and building aircraft and is supposed to have flown one
of the first powered flights as early as 1848...
...... Extract from article by Adam Hart-Davis, with respect to a
documentary series called 'Local Heroes' first aired on BBC2 in 1995,
the article was published in the Inventors World Magazine.
===========================
When I ask people "Who invented the aeroplane?" they usually say "The
Wright Brothers." In fact the world's first powered flight took place
not in America in 1903, but at Chard in Somerset 55 years earlier, and
the man who made it happen was John Stringfellow.
John Stringfellow was born in Attercliffe, Sheffield, on 6 December
1799. When he was a teenager his family moved to Nottingham, and he went
into the lace industry. He became a Bobbin and Carriage Maker, and
later, when the Luddites began to make trouble, moved south to work in
one of the two lace mills in Chard. He developed amazing skill at making
steam engines, and in about 1842 he teamed up with William Samuel
Henson, who was interested in aeronautics, and had already taken out a
patent for a plane. Henson had tremendous ambitions. He not only applied
for a patent on a 'Locomotive Apparatus for Air, Land, and Water' but
also tried to set up an airline! He made a model of the plane in the
patent, and tried to fly it in London, but it was a complete flop -
literally.
So Henson came back to Chard, and together they worked on a new plane
with a 20-foot wingspan and a wonderful Stringfellow steam engine. But
it took two years to build, and by 1845 Henson was losing his
enthusiasm. He moved back to London, got married, emigrated to America,
and patented a new safety razor.
Stringfellow carried on alone, and when the 20-footer was finished he
got workmen to carry it up to Bala Down, located about 1/2 mile west of
Chard, for testing. He was so upset by people making fun of his work
that he did this secretly, at night, and tried the first flight under
cover of darkness. But the silk fabric, wet with dew, drooped and became
so heavy the machine could not fly. He tried by day, every day for seven
weeks, and finally had to admit defeat.
Then, for the first time, Stringfellow designed his own aircraft from
scratch. The wingspan was 10 feet. The spars were of wood and the fabric
of silk. The steam engine and boiler, with paper-thin copper walls, was
carried in the gondola below the fuselage. The total weight of the craft
was probably about 9lbs. By the summer of 1848 she was ready to fly.
The two propellers were huge, with helical pitch, and rotated in
opposite directions to give lateral stability. His aircraft had no
vertical fin, and he knew it would tend to veer left or right at the
slightest disturbance. That is why he flew it inside one of the lace
mills, where the air was still.
The space was so narrow - about 17 feet between the wall and the central
row of pillars - that he had little room for error; so he launched the
aircraft by allowing it to run for ten yards down a wire. This ensured
that the machine started flying in exactly the right direction, and at a
reasonable speed.
According to his son Fred's eyewitness account, the first flight was a
bit of a disaster. The aircraft rose sharply from the end of the wire,
stalled, and dropped back on its tail, which broke. But a later flight
was a spectacular success; the plane flew for more than 10 yards before
punching a hole in the canvas screen at the end of the mill.
In January 1995 we tried to replicate that first powered flight. Model
aircraft specialist Charlie Newman built a full-scale model of
Stringfellow's aircraft, and we went back to the same mill to try it
out. To find out what happened, watch 'Local Heroes' on BBC2 in October.
--------
There are many other reports of those claiming first flights especially
between 1890 and 1902, though in most cases they had flown, they aren't
classed as first flights as they where not able to sustain the flight
for long enough or satisfy witness criteria.
Having said all that I personally think it is important to include the
fact that this is the celebration of modern aircraft flight, and not
just flight... The first recorded flight was in 1783 (220 years) by the
Montgolfier brothers in a hot air balloon, in 1785 the first balloon
flight across the English Channel was completed by Blanchard and
Jeffries. Then in 1852 there was also the first recorded steam powered
airship, flown over Paris by Henri Giffard (first controlled powered
flight?).
This year we have 220 years of flight history to celebrate, and 100
years of controlled powered aircraft flight.
I personally will be celebrating the Wright Brothers by taking the day
off work and spending it in my workshop with my Europa :-)
Regards,
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony S.
Krzyzewski
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski"
--> <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
Actually it was several months before. We had the Richard Pearce
memorial day last May.
Mind you, we do also acknowledge the Wright Brothers and there are plans
underway for over 100 aircraft to do a fly by of Auckland City at 18:00
hours on the 17th.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Puglise [mailto:jim_puglise@hotmail.com]
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Puglise"
--> <jim_puglise@hotmail.com>
Do not archive.
I don't mean to start a furor, but since we have a number of NZ builders
in the Group, I wanted to get a comment. I was in NZ several years ago
and they have an aircraft in the Motat in Auckland built by a man named
Pierce that they claim (as I remember) flew under powered controlled
flight several
weeks before the Wrights. Am I remembering correctly? Comments from
the
builders in NZ.
=
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Hi Fred,
I specifically asked the question at the end of the lecture and I don't
think there was much chance of getting the reply completely wrong. I will
see if I can contact the chap who delivered the lecture and get him to
respond.
Regards,
William
----- Original Message -----
From: <n3eu@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft
>
> Perhaps the AAIB guy didn't come across so clearly, or the "dog ate his
homework." The below research document is long and technical, but the very
first sentence will do: "Not until the 1980's was it convincingly
demonstrated that the vast majority of lightning strikes to aircraft are
initiated by the aircraft, as opposed to the aircraft's intercepting a
discharge in progress."
>
> http://plaza.ufl.edu/rakov/ProgressinAerospaceSciencespaper.pdf
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Paul.
Thanks for the "heads up" on who actually did what, very interesting
....".We" in the UK didn't do bad did we ? stick the invention of the Jet
Engine an the back of it also though!
You mention at one point "from memory" ...... I hadn't realised you were so
old!
Merry Christmas and a Safe flying NEW Year to you and all.
Best regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Bunting" <paul.bunting@developtheweb.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk
do not archive
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2" <garrys@att.com>
I have tried many headsets over the years..............Lightspeed,
Telex, etc. and finally discovered one headset that is an order of
magnitude better than anything else on the market. It's the Bose. Yes,
it's pricey, but once you try it, you'll sell your first born son to own
one. Trust me on this!
Regards,
Garry V. Stout
Flying trigear/914
E-Mail: garrys@att.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Guil Barros [mailto:flight@metathusalan.com]
Subject: Europa-List: Headsets?
--> Europa-List message posted by: Guil Barros <flight@metathusalan.com>
Looking to get a new headset for the new year, what are peoples
suggestions?
what have you been using and how do you like it?
i like the features/value of the Lightspeed 20 3G, love the way the
DavidC 10.3
feels, am in awe of the bose... dont think ill be spending the cash on
the
bose though... and would really like ANR...
thoughts,
-guil
=
==
==
==
==
Message 8
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| Subject: | Flying with European Europa in USA |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Klaus,
Forget the container shipment. The best and cheapest way is via car ferry
to New York
or Florida. There are two or three every week, and you go back the same way.
The
nearest port to you is probably Bremerhaven. I shipped my trigear from
Southampton
to Halifax in Nova Scotia.
Details: Shipping line is Wallenius Wilhelmesen Lines AS. Their tel number
in Southampton
(on their compliment slip) is +44 23 8023 7711. If that number isn't right
you probably
need to put a 1 in front of the 23. They should be able to tell you which
ports to
use in Germany and France.
For a quote compute the maximum volume of your trailer with aircraft on it.
I didn't bother
with insurance, so far none has sunk, they are skyscraper size sardine cans.
At the collection port I then bought an old car, and had a trailer hitch put
on. It needs
to be a 1 7/8 inch if your coupling is 50 mm, then you need to modify the
electrical
coupling. Then all you need is a kind Europa builder who will store your car
and trailer
for you while you are on your flying trip.
Servus, Karl
>From: Klaus Dietrich <Klaus.Dietrich@oracle.com>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: europa-list@matronics.com, Andy Draper <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: Flying with European Europa in USA
>Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:17:04 +0100
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Klaus Dietrich
><Klaus.Dietrich@oracle.com>
>
>I want to fulfill my dream of flying my Europa around the US and attend
>also Oshkosh....
>As I'm not brave enough to cross the big pond in my little Europa, I was
>planning to have her shipped in a container on the trailer, assemble her
>once in the US and than enjoy flying across the country....
>
>Could anybody give me some info on the regulation in place to fly a
>european registered plane in the US?
> Also any advise on the container shipping would be welcomed.
>
>Thanks
>Klaus (MkI, OE-CKD)
>
>
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Guil,
I have a pair of the Lightspeed 20's and I love them! I've worn them on
several 6-7 hour crosscountry flights in my Citabria with little or no discomfort.
ANR is the only way to go!
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 10
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| Subject: | Composites and "finality" of closings |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Guil Barros <flight@metathusalan.com>
quick question:
how "final" is the closing of wings et al with composites? will it be impossible
to open them back up later to fix things or install ocmponents?
-guil
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 11:03, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote:
> I have a pair of the Lightspeed 20's and I love them! I've worn them on
> several 6-7 hour crosscountry flights in my Citabria with little or no discomfort.
> ANR is the only way to go!
> Regards,
> John Lawton
Anyone have any info on the LightSpeed QFR Cross-Country ANR
headsets? I have a QFR Solo (Passive), and was thinking of buying
a set with ANR.
Thanks!
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill Thayer School of Engineering
ThUG Sr. Unix Systems Administrator 8000 Cummings Hall
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu - N1JOV Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH 03755
"On the side of the software box, in the 'System Requirements' section,
it said 'Requires Windows 95 or better'. So I installed Linux."
-Anonymous
Message 12
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| Subject: | Flying with European Europa in USA |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
If you are a member of EAA you can request their assistance, but you can
probably find everything you need to know about flying your Europa in the US
on the FAA web site. Try here to start:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr375_00.html
One thing you must certainly do is get a weather briefing (call
1-800-WXBRIEF) before each departure and specifically request information on
Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFRs) along your route. These TFRs have a
habit of literally popping up on short notice, so failure to do this could
get you a formation flight with some military guys. Other than that you
should have a wonderful experience flying in US airspace.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Klaus Dietrich
Subject: Europa-List: Flying with European Europa in USA
--> Europa-List message posted by: Klaus Dietrich
<Klaus.Dietrich@oracle.com>
I want to fulfill my dream of flying my Europa around the US and attend
also Oshkosh....
As I'm not brave enough to cross the big pond in my little Europa, I was
planning to have her shipped in a container on the trailer, assemble her
once in the US and than enjoy flying across the country....
Could anybody give me some info on the regulation in place to fly a
european registered plane in the US?
Also any advise on the container shipping would be welcomed.
Thanks
Klaus (MkI, OE-CKD)
Message 13
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| Subject: | website for aircraft parts |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
I've been passed details of a website where surplus aircraft parts
are catalogued for re-sale. It's at
<http://www.quicksource-online.com>. You will need to register and
obtain a password to into the working parts of the site. However, I
didn't manage to make it work satisfactorily with either Safari or IE
- perhaps others will have better luck. It seems a promising idea if
the technology could be made a bit more standards-compliant! If it
works for enough people, perhaps we can get it added to the links on
the Europa Club pages when they re-surface.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (660 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 14
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet <possibletodo@yahoo.com>
My ears are about average and I found all the Lightspeeds to have small earcups
making for discomfort after a few hours. I bought mine at San Val who has a
30 day return so I just kept buying different pairs until I found comfort. Ended
up with Denali blue ANR... fabulous comfort
Paul Boulet, N914PB
Awaiting DAR approval for flight testing
Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 11:03, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote:
> I have a pair of the Lightspeed 20's and I love them! I've worn them on
> several 6-7 hour crosscountry flights in my Citabria with little or no discomfort.
> ANR is the only way to go!
> Regards,
> John Lawton
Anyone have any info on the LightSpeed QFR Cross-Country ANR
headsets? I have a QFR Solo (Passive), and was thinking of buying
a set with ANR.
Thanks!
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill Thayer School of Engineering
ThUG Sr. Unix Systems Administrator 8000 Cummings Hall
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu - N1JOV Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH 03755
"On the side of the software box, in the 'System Requirements' section,
it said 'Requires Windows 95 or better'. So I installed Linux."
-Anonymous
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg <kaarsber@terra.com.br>
Having seen the signs of many lightning strikes on commercial aircraft,
I can say the damage it does is dependant on the path it takes through
the aircraft.
In the vast majority of cases it goes in somewhere in the upper half of
the nose section and goes out at the wingtips or the tail.
If the aircraft is set up right, it will only produce tiny burn spots in
the nose skin or melt a fraction of a rivethead and nothing out of the
rear as there is metallic bonding leads to control surfaces and static
dischargers bonded to the structure with conductive paste and rivets.
An added nuisance can be the tripping of contactors and generators and
occasionally a change in residual magnetism around the stby compass.
I have seen flight crew come out of the cockpit, white in their faces of
terror after being hit by series of lightning expecting to see the tail
half fallen off, only to find the above mentioned minor damage on
subsequent inspection.
Failing to do it right can burn out secondary and tertiary structure and
composite around the trailing edges.
The path it should take is through the metallic fuselage and this is
where we have a problem, Beechcraft approached it thus on their first
civilian composite aircraft by placing a very fine metallic mesh in the
surface of the skins. (Skins made of conductive carbonfiber that
otherwise would take the full current right through all the structure,
hence the extra preoccupation.)
Recent know-how of lightning shows that an object such as a tower will
try to build up a static charge in a storm and if it is not well
grounded, (I think it was to be less than 15 ohms) the charge will build
up and up until the lightning strikes.
That shows theres truth to the old wivestale that says you should
throw yourself to the ground, if you feel your hair raising during a storm.
Static charges are supposed to dissipate through the needle points of
the static dischargers as already said, I had the case of a Fokker 27
that would lose all communications every time it flew through cloud at
less than 0C when flying freight at night in central Germany. Needless
to say the controllers were getting rather peed off after a few nights,
so we pulled it out of service.
The problem was found to be in broken bonding leads to an elevator.
The point is, that the only time there was sufficiently static to start
arcing in the bearings was when flying through ice crystals.
As it is difficult to quantify such things, I would consider embedding
metallic foil or using conductive paint in certain areas, if I was to
skirt a lot of storms. It should get rid of any build-up, leaving only
the strikes that happens anyway- I wont do that though!
Alex, kit 529:
> Wings to be closed, rudder and ribs to fit, engine and instruments to
> buy and fit...paint and upholstery........and then all the little
> things on the wishlist!
> (Glider quality finish, magnetic fuel level indication, lots of clever
> and light glass in the panel, an emergency pop out ram air generator
> and a rubber band aileron trim..I will probably have to wait a few
> years for the Stirling engine to be available so the 912S and VP prop
> is going to drive it in the beginning )
Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
Hi Mike,
I did not wear a parachute on the first flight, but did on a later test
flight when I did Vne+, G+, acro, and spin testing. I used a seat pack
parachute that I got for my Great Lakes biplane. It is about 3 inches
thick, which is really too much for the Europa. My headset was barely
clear of the canopy, and I am not very tall (5'8").
regards,
Terry Seaver
A125 / N135TD
DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
>
>Hello all,
>
>Anyone out there that do the first flight of a newly built experimental? When
>you do this flight do you wear a parachute?
>Or, people that do acrobatics. Since, in the USA, you are supposed to have a
>parachute on while doing acro, what type of chute do you wear? How well does
>it fit into the Europa? Is it a snug fit for the pilot on the days they want to
>do acro legally?
>Just a few questions to satisfy the wife/coplilot when she asks.
>
>
>Mike Duane A207
>Redding, California
>XS Conventional Gear
>Cockpit module installed, tailplane torque tube in place, & landing gear
>frame installed.
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Flying with European Europa in USA |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good morning Klaus,
I think that you are in for a world of different flying. You might want to
come up with a rough flight plan for your route and then maybe some of the local
Europa members can let you in on the B&B's in that area. If you get near the
northern California region and need a bed or breakfast we always allow fellow
Europa flyers the use of our spare bedroom and workshop if the need arises.
Keep an up to date list of the Europa Emergency services directory with you.
As per flying your aircraft in the USA. You have to contact the local
Regional Office of the Flight Services District Office of the FAA to get a "Special
Flight Authorization" in order to fly your aircraft in US airspace. And since
it's a German built and registered aircraft and you are a German certified
pilot, you will not need any further pilot authorization. I think that you might
look up Rule 91.715 on the FAA website for complete info.
I believe that there is an FAA office in Frankfurt that you can make the
application to before you make the trip as the government red tape may be long
and
take time.
US Domestic Address:
International Address:
Federal Aviation Administration
Federal Aviation Administration
Frankfurt IFO EA-33
Frankfurt IFO EA-33
Rhein Main Air Base, Bldg. 7, Unit 7580
Rhein Main Air Base, Bldg. 7
APO AE 09050
60549 Frankfurt Am Main
Germany
Office Telephone: [+49]+(0)69-69-7050
Office Fax: [+49]+(0)69-69-705-150
Good luck.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
530 247-7480
XS Conventional Gear
Cockpit module installed, tailplane torque tube in place, & landing gear
frame installed.
Message 18
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--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Thanks Terry,
Glad you didn't need it.
Mike
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite aircraft |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Atkinson <paul@theatkinsons.demon.co.uk>
I am very hazy about the science of all this, so don't quote me, but
metal aircraft rely on good bonding to ensure that lightning has
somewhere to go without affecting the contents (i.e. passengers, radios
etc). As Carl suggested, I assume that the presence of metal in a
composite aircraft can have disastrous effects because there is nowhere
for the energy to go once it has entered.
My "Handbook of Aviation Meteorology" suggests that lightning strikes
can occur anywhere if the conditions are right, even in clear air,
though much more likely in CBs. It also suggests that a good way of
attracting a strike is to trail a long aerial or cable out the back :-).
The only strike I have had, happened flying through an innocent looking
cu (it was no more than 2000' in extent). Our passage through it set it
off, and all the others nearby.
Existing thunderstorms are not too difficult to avoid but we have no
way of telling when the conditions might be right in other
circumstances.
So I have a fairly fatalistic approach to this, in that if my Europa is
struck by lightening it probably won't do me much good, but on the
other hand the chances of that happening are relatively slim,
particularly flying VFR most of the time. On the other hand I am more
concerned about the turbulence that CBs produce. Even a quite small CB
can produce enough turbulence to make flying a light aircraft very
difficult, not just in the cloud; windshear near the ground can
seriously damage your health.
Paul Atkinson
ps I heard a story once about a metal glider that broke an altitude
gain record in Argentina. The pilot thermalled into the base of a CB.
When he regained conciousness the tail of his aircraft was at an odd
angle but it was still flyable. The barograph, which had been running,
showed that he had broken a record by a considerable margin. I suspect
that he would have enjoyed the experience far less if he had had his
oxygen mask on.
> From: n3eu@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
>
>> Hi All,
>> According to the AAIB at the last PFA Rally at Kemble, aircraft do not
>> attract lightening, so it will only strike if the aircraft flies
>> through the
>> path of lightening when it is already travelling. This is my
>> understanding
>> of what was said. I therefore try to give CBs a wide birth.
>> Regards,
>> William
>
> Perhaps the AAIB guy didn't come across so clearly, or the "dog ate
> his homework."
> The below research document is long and technical, but the very first
> sentence
> will do: "Not until the 1980's was it convincingly demonstrated that
> the
> vast majority of lightning strikes to aircraft are initiated by the
> aircraft,
> as opposed to the aircraft's intercepting a discharge in progress."
>
> http://plaza.ufl.edu/rakov/ProgressinAerospaceSciencespaper.pdf
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite |
aircraft
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
For what i understand of lighning and it's effect on composite aircraft it
works like this:
Lightning will take the shortest route between the negative and the
positively charged area if the voltage is large enough to ionise the air
in the gap. A metal airplane will occasionally shorten that gap as will a
metal pushrod in a composite with the result of a lightning strike. The
current will flow and heat will be produced on the outside of the conductor
causing an explosionlike expansion of air. In case of a metal plane, it
will be nasty, but survivable. In case of a pushrod, it will blow
everything around the pushrod to smithereens. In my meteorology book the
advice about thunderstorms is to avoid them by at least 10 nm, and at
higher altitudes by 20 nm or more! because of windshear, turbulence, icing,
hail, reduced visibility, lightning and interference to radio and radio
nav. Thinking about the 10 to 20 nm distance, i guess that this order of
thunderstorm dangers is the realistic one.
Jos Okhuijsen
Paul Atkinson <paul@theatkinsons.demon.co.uk> kirjoitti Mon, 15 Dec 2003
18:51:50 +0000:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Atkinson
> <paul@theatkinsons.demon.co.uk>
>
> I am very hazy about the science of all this, so don't quote me, but
> metal aircraft rely on good bonding to ensure that lightning has
> somewhere to go without affecting the contents (i.e. passengers, radios
> etc). As Carl suggested, I assume that the presence of metal in a
> composite aircraft can have disastrous effects because there is nowhere
> for the energy to go once it has entered.
>
> My "Handbook of Aviation Meteorology" suggests that lightning strikes can
> occur anywhere if the conditions are right, even in clear air, though
> much more likely in CBs. It also suggests that a good way of attracting a
> strike is to trail a long aerial or cable out the back :-).
>
> The only strike I have had, happened flying through an innocent looking
> cu (it was no more than 2000' in extent). Our passage through it set it
> off, and all the others nearby.
> Existing thunderstorms are not too difficult to avoid but we have no way
> of telling when the conditions might be right in other circumstances.
>
> So I have a fairly fatalistic approach to this, in that if my Europa is
> struck by lightening it probably won't do me much good, but on the other
> hand the chances of that happening are relatively slim, particularly
> flying VFR most of the time. On the other hand I am more concerned about
> the turbulence that CBs produce. Even a quite small CB can produce enough
> turbulence to make flying a light aircraft very difficult, not just in
> the cloud; windshear near the ground can seriously damage your health.
>
> Paul Atkinson
>
> ps I heard a story once about a metal glider that broke an altitude gain
> record in Argentina. The pilot thermalled into the base of a CB. When he
> regained conciousness the tail of his aircraft was at an odd angle but it
> was still flyable. The barograph, which had been running, showed that he
> had broken a record by a considerable margin. I suspect that he would
> have enjoyed the experience far less if he had had his oxygen mask on.
>
>> From: n3eu@comcast.net
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft
>>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>> According to the AAIB at the last PFA Rally at Kemble, aircraft do not
>>> attract lightening, so it will only strike if the aircraft flies
>>> through the
>>> path of lightening when it is already travelling. This is my
>>> understanding
>>> of what was said. I therefore try to give CBs a wide birth.
>>> Regards,
>>> William
>>
>> Perhaps the AAIB guy didn't come across so clearly, or the "dog ate his
>> homework."
>> The below research document is long and technical, but the very first
>> sentence
>> will do: "Not until the 1980's was it convincingly demonstrated that the
>> vast majority of lightning strikes to aircraft are initiated by the
>> aircraft,
>> as opposed to the aircraft's intercepting a discharge in progress."
>>
>> http://plaza.ufl.edu/rakov/ProgressinAerospaceSciencespaper.pdf
>>
>> Regards,
>> Fred F.
>>
>>
>
>
> _-> _-
> ========================================================================
> _-
> ========================================================================
> _-
> ========================================================================
> _-
> ========================================================================
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 21
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| Subject: | 17/12/03 UK Event (Fly-in!!) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
See also:
http://www.bmaa.org/event.asp?EventID=150
Message 22
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet <possibletodo@yahoo.com>
Hi All;
Kim Prout is the West Coast U.S. distributor for Europa and has a new email which
is KPAviat@verizon.net
Let me know if any questions... thanks
Paul Boulet, N914PB, awaiting FAA Airworthiness certificate to start flight testing
Message 23
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--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
In a message dated 12/15/2003 9:42:47 AM Pacific Standard Time,
DuaneFamly@aol.com writes:
> Thanks Terry,
>
> Glad you didn't need it.
>
> Mike
>
You never know if you need it, unless that one in a million chance you do. I
wore one for my first flight and any flights of doubt. I have a wedge shaped
chute which makes it a tight fit, but workable for a short flight.
Dave
A227
136TT
Mini U2
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite |
aircraft
--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
I have always wondered whether anyone has ever made a test to see if a
metallic
primer or topcoat would lessen the impact of a lightning strike. When flying
the
Europa MG in glider mode it is very possible to fly close to CB's, and it
is fairly
common practice to utilize the strong lift underneath a CB up to cloudbase.
Competition class glider pilots usually have some interesting stories to
tell
about going into CB's.
Karl
>From: Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to
>composite aircraft
>Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:55:42 +0200
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
>
>For what i understand of lighning and it's effect on composite aircraft it
>works like this:
>Lightning will take the shortest route between the negative and the
>positively charged area if the voltage is large enough to ionise the air
>in the gap. A metal airplane will occasionally shorten that gap as will a
>metal pushrod in a composite with the result of a lightning strike. The
>current will flow and heat will be produced on the outside of the conductor
>causing an explosionlike expansion of air. In case of a metal plane, it
>will be nasty, but survivable. In case of a pushrod, it will blow
>everything around the pushrod to smithereens. In my meteorology book the
>advice about thunderstorms is to avoid them by at least 10 nm, and at
>higher altitudes by 20 nm or more! because of windshear, turbulence, icing,
>hail, reduced visibility, lightning and interference to radio and radio
>nav. Thinking about the 10 to 20 nm distance, i guess that this order of
>thunderstorm dangers is the realistic one.
>
>Jos Okhuijsen
>
>
>Paul Atkinson <paul@theatkinsons.demon.co.uk> kirjoitti Mon, 15 Dec 2003
>18:51:50 +0000:
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Atkinson
> > <paul@theatkinsons.demon.co.uk>
> >
> > I am very hazy about the science of all this, so don't quote me, but
> > metal aircraft rely on good bonding to ensure that lightning has
> > somewhere to go without affecting the contents (i.e. passengers, radios
> > etc). As Carl suggested, I assume that the presence of metal in a
> > composite aircraft can have disastrous effects because there is nowhere
> > for the energy to go once it has entered.
> >
> > My "Handbook of Aviation Meteorology" suggests that lightning strikes
>can
> > occur anywhere if the conditions are right, even in clear air, though
> > much more likely in CBs. It also suggests that a good way of attracting
>a
> > strike is to trail a long aerial or cable out the back :-).
> >
> > The only strike I have had, happened flying through an innocent looking
> > cu (it was no more than 2000' in extent). Our passage through it set it
> > off, and all the others nearby.
> > Existing thunderstorms are not too difficult to avoid but we have no way
> > of telling when the conditions might be right in other circumstances.
> >
> > So I have a fairly fatalistic approach to this, in that if my Europa is
> > struck by lightening it probably won't do me much good, but on the other
> > hand the chances of that happening are relatively slim, particularly
> > flying VFR most of the time. On the other hand I am more concerned about
> > the turbulence that CBs produce. Even a quite small CB can produce
>enough
> > turbulence to make flying a light aircraft very difficult, not just in
> > the cloud; windshear near the ground can seriously damage your health.
> >
> > Paul Atkinson
> >
> > ps I heard a story once about a metal glider that broke an altitude gain
> > record in Argentina. The pilot thermalled into the base of a CB. When he
> > regained conciousness the tail of his aircraft was at an odd angle but
>it
> > was still flyable. The barograph, which had been running, showed that he
> > had broken a record by a considerable margin. I suspect that he would
> > have enjoyed the experience far less if he had had his oxygen mask on.
> >
> >> From: n3eu@comcast.net
> >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning Strikes to Composite Aircraft
> >>
> >> --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> >>
> >>> Hi All,
> >>> According to the AAIB at the last PFA Rally at Kemble, aircraft do not
> >>> attract lightening, so it will only strike if the aircraft flies
> >>> through the
> >>> path of lightening when it is already travelling. This is my
> >>> understanding
> >>> of what was said. I therefore try to give CBs a wide birth.
> >>> Regards,
> >>> William
> >>
> >> Perhaps the AAIB guy didn't come across so clearly, or the "dog ate his
> >> homework."
> >> The below research document is long and technical, but the very first
> >> sentence
> >> will do: "Not until the 1980's was it convincingly demonstrated that
>the
> >> vast majority of lightning strikes to aircraft are initiated by the
> >> aircraft,
> >> as opposed to the aircraft's intercepting a discharge in progress."
> >>
> >> http://plaza.ufl.edu/rakov/ProgressinAerospaceSciencespaper.pdf
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Fred F.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > _-> _-
> > ========================================================================
> > _-
> > ========================================================================
> > _-
> > ========================================================================
> > _-
> > ========================================================================
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Flying with European Europa in USA |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
Klaus:
I don't think it wouuld be a big deal for a foreign registered aircraft. I
see plenty of Canadian planes down here in Arizona during the winter time.
You could check the FAA's website to get specifics. www.faa.gov
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: Klaus Dietrich <Klaus.Dietrich@oracle.com>
> To: Andy Draper <andy@europa-aircraft.com>; <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/15/03 3:17:04 AM
> Subject: Europa-List: Flying with European Europa in USA
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Klaus Dietrich
<Klaus.Dietrich@oracle.com>
>
> I want to fulfill my dream of flying my Europa around the US and attend
> also Oshkosh....
> As I'm not brave enough to cross the big pond in my little Europa, I was
> planning to have her shipped in a container on the trailer, assemble her
> once in the US and than enjoy flying across the country....
>
> Could anybody give me some info on the regulation in place to fly a
> european registered plane in the US?
> Also any advise on the container shipping would be welcomed.
>
> Thanks
> Klaus (MkI, OE-CKD)
>
>
>
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs@earthlink.net
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite |
aircraft
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> I have always wondered whether anyone has ever made a test to see if a
> metallic
> primer or topcoat would lessen the impact of a lightning strike.
> Karl
There are specialty coatings which conduct electricity, but metallic paints as
we know them do not. The coating would have to conduct as well as metal, as even
small resistance translates to serious heat with up to 80,000 or so amps applied.
To compute heat, the math requires we square the amps!
I believe what's needed is something with low enough resistance to provide a preferential
lightning path to keep it away from controls systems and the fuel tank.
Happy shopping...checked only one product site, and their best is 15 milliohms
per square mil, which I think won't work at all. And not surprisingly,
the stuff is very heavy anyway, so no scientific math nor price check necesssary.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 27
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Was fooling using expancil for the first time to fill aileron area with trim tab
on it.
It seems like my spackle tools, knives from 2 inches to 18 inches wide may be a
good thing to use.
i also have some sanding blocks made for spackle that are ~ 3 inches wide and 9
inches long. they will accept sandpaper and have a foam backing.
i also have some of the spackle sanding screens.
Anybody use these for europa filling / sanding?
thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Flying with European Europa in USA |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Klaus,
Canada and the US have a special setup to allow each's aircraft to easily fly
in each other's airspace. But all others have to get a "Special Flight
Authorization".
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Cockpit module installed, tailplane torque tube in place, & landing gear
frame installed.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Composites and "finality" of closings |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
Guil Barros wrote:-
> how "final" is the closing of wings et al with composites? will it be
impossible
to open them back up later to fix things or install ocmponents?
Guil,
In the absence of any other replies to your question, I would suggest
that in respect of maintenance procedures, once the wing is closed, it
is closed. Having said that however, when it comes to having to open up
a structure for whatever reason eg accidental damage, worn out parts
etc, I think you will find fibreglass lends itself to this sort of
operation much better than any other material.
I remember years ago many people in the gliding fraternity being amazed
how at World Championship gliding competitions, if a competitor had a
prang on out landing damaging the aircraft, crews would work all night
and have the aircraft in the air again the next day. If I remember
correctly, broken fuselages have even been repaired overnight. I have
never heard of similar repairs being carried out on any other sort of
aircraft over such a short time span. Admittedly, gliders repaired in
this manner would very likely not be in showroom condition as far as
aesthetics is concerned, but they were structurally sound.
In a nutshell, I don't think you have anything to worry about, if you
ever have to open it up, you will be able to provided you follow proper
repair procedures.
Regards
Kingsley Hurst
Europa Mono Classic 281
in Oz
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