---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/17/03: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:36 AM - Re: Paint coverage (Trevpond@aol.com) 2. 04:13 AM - Re: Kitty Hawk (Alex Kaarsberg) 3. 04:34 AM - Re: Kitty Hawk (Miles McCallum) 4. 05:06 AM - Re: Firewall heat shield. (Alex Kaarsberg) 5. 05:18 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite (Alex Kaarsberg) 6. 06:35 AM - Re: Firewall heat shield. (Paul McAllister) 7. 06:41 AM - Re: Kitty Hawk (Jeff Roberts) 8. 06:51 AM - Re: Fill tools? (Fergus Kyle) 9. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite aircraft (Fergus Kyle) 10. 07:27 AM - Re: Longer Legs (Europa Aircraft) 11. 07:42 AM - Re: Kitty Hawk (Paul Bunting) 12. 07:54 AM - Re: Paint coverage (now degenerating into politics) (Rob Housman) 13. 09:19 AM - Operation Kitty Hawk (DJA727@aol.com) 14. 09:53 AM - Re: Headsets (Erich Trombley) 15. 10:02 AM - SPAM filters (was Re: Headsets) (David Glauser) 16. 11:13 AM - Re: Firewall heat shield. (Tony S. Krzyzewski) 17. 11:39 AM - Re: Kitty Hawk (Alex Kaarsberg) 18. 11:41 AM - Re: Firewall heat shield. (Alex Kaarsberg) 19. 11:56 AM - Re: Firewall heat shield. (Ronald J. Parigoris) 20. 12:43 PM - Re: Operation Kitty Hawk (James H Nelson) 21. 12:43 PM - Re: Fire wall heat shield. (James H Nelson) 22. 12:43 PM - Re: Longer Legs (James H Nelson) 23. 12:57 PM - Re: Firewall heat shield. (Tony S. Krzyzewski) 24. 01:20 PM - Re: Operation Kitty Hawk (DJA727@aol.com) 25. 03:17 PM - Re: Firewall heat shield. (bryan allsop) 26. 03:23 PM - Re: Firewall heat shield. (Kevin Klinefelter) 27. 07:06 PM - Re: Kitty Hawk (Fergus Kyle) 28. 07:15 PM - Re: Operation Kitty Hawk (Troy Maynor) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:59 AM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Paint coverage --> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com This is what happens when you give one of your Colonies their Independence! They get too big for their boots and start asking difficult questions instead of just accepting measurements as fact!!! Trev Pond 914 Trigear being born ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:35 AM PST US From: Alex Kaarsberg Subject: Re: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk --> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg > > > However, his flight was not fully observed and he landed below >take-off point so his event cannot be acclaimed as was the Wrights' - >sustained level flight. All else is guff. >Ferg >A064 > > > The Wright brothers also did not have the required observers and employed a katapult in order to make their contraption `fly. (Reportedly) Their flight was not recognized by the French academy until sometime in the 20s, presumably when US clout had reached its necessary momentum. There is a lot of arguments not to believe the Wright story, but why ruin a day that has been prepared for so well... One of the biggest achivements of the USA is that of historical engineering, something Hollywood and its likes have perfected along the years- although they did not invent it- they may come up one day with that claim too :-) Alex, #529 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:11 AM PST US From: "Miles McCallum" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk --> Europa-List message posted by: "Miles McCallum" The first flights were conducted off a "runway" - the catapult was used later for low headwind/ 2 seat operations.... technically, what they achieved was the first controlled, powered, fixed wing flight. Controlled/ powered, controlled/ fixed wing, and powered/ fixed wing had already been done before... M > > > > > The Wright brothers also did not have the required observers and > employed a katapult in order to make their contraption `fly. (Reportedly) > Their flight was not recognized by the French academy until sometime in > the 20s, presumably when US clout had reached its necessary momentum. > There is a lot of arguments not to believe the Wright story, but why > ruin a day that has been prepared for so well... > > One of the biggest achivements of the USA is that of historical > engineering, something Hollywood and its likes have perfected along the > years- although they did not invent it- they may come up one day with > that claim too :-) > > Alex, #529 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:52 AM PST US From: Alex Kaarsberg Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall heat shield. --> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg I have seen one Rotax installation where the exhaust pipes were shrouded in asbestos cloth, it was said to reduce temps considerably. You cant get that easily everywhere though... Alex #529 Cliff Shaw wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" > >Jeff > >I put the self sticking type of reflective sheet on the front of the foot >wells. It reduced the heat in the cockpit last summer quit a bit. I bought >it in sheets from ACS. > >Cliff Shaw > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:02 AM PST US From: Alex Kaarsberg Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite aircraft --> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg n3eu@comcast.net wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net > > > >>I have always wondered whether anyone has ever made a test to see if a >>metallic >>primer or topcoat would lessen the impact of a lightning strike. >> >> I dont believe you can create a safe path for a lightning strike in a plastic plane without losing your payload capacity, but you should be able to avoid building up the static that attracts the lightning in the first place, hence my recommendation for conductive paint etc. Alex # 529 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:16 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall heat shield. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi Kevin, I used Heat Barrier Adhesive Backed p/n 08-00600 from Aircraft Spruce. It comes 12" x 24" sheets and I needed 4 packets to cover the front of the foot wells and the front of the firewall. I did not cover the insides of the foot wells I also used the Aluminized Tape to seal off the edges. You can see the result on http://europa363.versadev.com under 8th of December. Regards, Paul ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk From: Jeff Roberts --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts on 12/17/03 7:10 AM, Alex Kaarsberg at kaarsber@terra.com.br wrote: > The Wright brothers also did not have the required observers and > employed a katapult in order to make their contraption `fly. (Reportedly) > Their flight was not recognized by the French academy until sometime in > the 20s, presumably when US clout had reached its necessary momentum. > There is a lot of arguments not to believe the Wright story, but why > ruin a day that has been prepared for so well... > > One of the biggest achivements of the USA is that of historical > engineering, something Hollywood and its likes have perfected along the > years- although they did not invent it- they may come up one day with > that claim too :-) There are no arguments not to believe the Wright story unless youre going by hearsay. The only thing the Wrights did was invent the worlds first efficient prop, the first engine that would be light enough to use in an airplane, and the first fixed wing fully controllable airplane. They flew it from a runway without a Catapult, documented it with photos and witnesses. Given the time and lack of past research to go by it was an astounding feet. Oh did I mention they also invented wind tunnel research. As far as it taking 20 years for the French beaurocracy to finally understand the truth. Whats New! Jeff A258 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:43 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fill tools? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Subject: Europa-List: Fill tools? | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" | | Was fooling using expancil for the first time to fill aileron area with trim tab on it. | | It seems like my spackle tools, knives from 2 inches to 18 inches wide may be a good thing to use. | | i also have some sanding blocks made for spackle that are ~ 3 inches wide and 9 inches long. they will accept sandpaper and have a foam backing. | | i also have some of the spackle sanding screens. | | Anybody use these for europa filling / sanding? | | thx. | Ron Parigoris Yes I used spachl screens for my initial rough finishing stages - all 3 sizes. very efficient (too?) but try it with care - good for gross removals! Ferg A064 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:06 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite aircraft --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: lightning strikes to composite aircraft | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Martin Shaw" | | Paul, | Points to remember about lightning strikes :- | 1. Aircraft rubbing against the air generate an electric charge and this | will attract a bolt of lightning from an oppositely charged Cb. Expensive | aircraft have static discharge wicks to dissipate this charge IMHO, not a point of interest. Our aircraft is too small to build up any sort of large chargein time (it dissipates faster than it forms). Also which charge counts - positive or negative? Who knows? Don't go near them. | 2. From personal experience I know that lightning can strike over 10 miles | laterally out of a Cb. The Atlantic North and Canadian maritimes are great generators and have been struck dozens of times since 1948 DC3s to 767s. My minimum personal distance is 25 miles at FRZLVL, 20 below. The thing is, where are they without radar? Don't go near them. | | 3. A metal aeroplane is bonded together and so the electricity has the full | run of the whole aeroplane. You will, of course remember from your school | days that like charges repel each other and so any electric charge, such as | a lightning strike will repel itself and stay in the outermost atoms of the | metal structure. You will therefore be safe unless wing-walking at the time. Very true. Unfortunately for us most of our 'outer atoms' are inside the structure. Don't go near 'em. | 4. A non conducting, plastic aeroplane struck by lightning will disintegrate | and the occupants will die. ... or in the case of the Brit glider, get burnt some.See: http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_avsafety/documents/page/dft_avsafety_500699.hcsp ALL ABOVE ON ONE LINE. | | See you in the bar on thundery days,| best wishes,| Martin Shaw. Bang on, Martin! Don't go near 'em. They do what 8-foot gorillas do - whatever they please. Reducing the electrical resistance to 12 volts won't bother 100,000V at 60,000 amps. Ferg A064 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:06 AM PST US From: "Europa Aircraft" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Longer Legs --> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa Aircraft" Hi All, Please check with Andy before installing another type of nylon outrigger leg. Be sure you are using the right kind of nylon. The type needed is not a common one. We have tried similar types here with bad results over time. Happy Building! John -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Hagar Subject: Europa-List: Longer Legs --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" I put the bird on all four wheels recently after plugging in the wings and putting the outriggers in. Needless to say it is a stretch for the outriggers to reach the ground at the length supplied in the kit. Looking in the McMaster catalog it appears as the white nylon 6/6 is what is used on the Europa. The other nylons have a statement about "using indoors?". I am shooting for about a half an inch clearance between the wheels and the ground. How much settleing is induced with a full load? Steve A143 Mesa, AZ --- Steve Hagar --- hagargs@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:00 AM PST US From: "Paul Bunting" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Bunting" Hi Guys, > Oh did I mention they also invented wind tunnel research Afraid the Wright Brothers didn't invent wind tunnel research, the first recorded wind tunnel was invented in 1871, by Frank H. Wenham, in Britain. The Wright brothers used the British design of a wind tunnel... What they did invent, however, was their balances and gauges (made out of old hacksaw blades and the like) which allowed them to accurately measure the lift and drag created by different Aerofoil shapes allowing better wing design and possibly more importantly the Wright brothers are recorded as the first to use calculations (rather that trial and error) to design the most efficient propeller for their needs. Paul #594 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Roberts Subject: Re: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts on 12/17/03 7:10 AM, Alex Kaarsberg at kaarsber@terra.com.br wrote: > The Wright brothers also did not have the required observers and > employed a katapult in order to make their contraption `fly. > (Reportedly) Their flight was not recognized by the French academy > until sometime in the 20s, presumably when US clout had reached its > necessary momentum. There is a lot of arguments not to believe the > Wright story, but why ruin a day that has been prepared for so well... > > One of the biggest achivements of the USA is that of historical > engineering, something Hollywood and its likes have perfected along > the > years- although they did not invent it- they may come up one day with > that claim too :-) There are no arguments not to believe the Wright story unless youre going by hearsay. The only thing the Wrights did was invent the worlds first efficient prop, the first engine that would be light enough to use in an airplane, and the first fixed wing fully controllable airplane. They flew it from a runway without a Catapult, documented it with photos and witnesses. Given the time and lack of past research to go by it was an astounding feet. Oh did I mention they also invented wind tunnel research. As far as it taking 20 years for the French beaurocracy to finally understand the truth. Whats New! Jeff A258 = == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:31 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Paint coverage (now degenerating into politics) --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" Give, did you say give? Does Philadelphia in 1776 ring a "bell" perhaps? Maybe Yorktown (1881) sounds familiar. The Peace of Versailles (1883) finally settled the whole mess, but it merely formalized what was already fact: independence from mad King George, who (by the way) did not simply declare victory and bring the redcoats home. But it's OK, we can still be friends, and we forgive the transgressions of the 18th Century, because those who ruled before El Jorge Loco got us off to a pretty good start. ...and, oh yes, you spell funny too :) DO NOT ARCHIVE Best regards, Rob Housman Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete Irvine, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Paint coverage --> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com This is what happens when you give one of your Colonies their Independence! They get too big for their boots and start asking difficult questions instead of just accepting measurements as fact!!! Trev Pond 914 Trigear being born ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:38 AM PST US From: DJA727@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Operation Kitty Hawk --> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com To those interested, a Europa long wing aircraft took to the skies at 7:35 PST on December 17th and flew a north bound straight ahead - in the air for 12 seconds. This was my personal gesture to the event that took place 100 years ago. the weather was clear, the temp was 17 degrees F and as usual for a Europa flight, it went without a hitch. At least one Europa was in the air at that exact time! Dave A227 Mini U2 Complete - 137 hours TT, trying to come up with a cowl flap arrangement ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Headsets From: Erich Trombley --> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley EARNOT -- europa-list@matronics.com wrote: Your email message was temporarily blocked by my spam filter. If you feel this is an error, please follow these instructions. The attached image contains a password. Reply to this email and enter the password in the subject or body of your reply. Thank you. This email account is protected with Spam Bully. www.spambully.com --> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley "Looking to get a new headset for the new year, what are peoples suggestions? what have you been using and how do you like it?" I purchased two C-100 Centurion headsets from SoftComm. I really love these headsets. I can wear the headsets for many hours with comfort, typically 4-5 hours. The units are unique in that the ANR circuitry does not require a separate power source, but rather uses a proprietary design that is powered through either the radio or intercom via the headset jacks. So no batteries to every worry about. Additionally, the headsets automatically switch between stereo or mono. No external switch to mess with. Those interested can check them out at http://www.softcommheadsets.com/aviation-products/html/headsets.html Happy Holidays to all. Erich Trombley N28ET Flying - classic 914 with Warp Drive prop ==== ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:01 AM PST US Subject: SPAM filters (was RE: Europa-List: Headsets) From: "David Glauser" --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Glauser" Someone on this list has installed Spam Bully, a program that attempts to block incoming spam. Unfortunately, they turned on the challenge sent to mailers without taking care to exempt the Europa list. Please, whoever you are - Spam Bully lets you "white-list" an address (add it to the list of addresses from which mail will be accepted). PLEASE add the Matronics list address (europa-list@matronics.com) to your white-list, so every poster doesn't get this obnoxious password confirmation request, and we don't have to read dozens of these every day. Behavior like that is as bad as spam - YOUR carelessness is causing hundreds of extra emails each day. David -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Erich Trombley Subject: Re: Europa-List: Headsets --> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley EARNOT -- europa-list@matronics.com wrote: Your email message was temporarily blocked by my spam filter. If you feel this is an error, please follow these instructions. The attached image contains a password. Reply to this email and enter the password in the subject or body of your reply. Thank you. This email account is protected with Spam Bully. www.spambully.com --> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley "Looking to get a new headset for the new year, what are peoples suggestions? what have you been using and how do you like it?" I purchased two C-100 Centurion headsets from SoftComm. I really love these headsets. I can wear the headsets for many hours with comfort, typically 4-5 hours. The units are unique in that the ANR circuitry does not require a separate power source, but rather uses a proprietary design that is powered through either the radio or intercom via the headset jacks. So no batteries to every worry about. Additionally, the headsets automatically switch between stereo or mono. No external switch to mess with. Those interested can check them out at http://www.softcommheadsets.com/aviation-products/html/headsets.html Happy Holidays to all. Erich Trombley N28ET Flying - classic 914 with Warp Drive prop ==== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:49 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Firewall heat shield. From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" >> I have seen one Rotax installation where the exhaust pipes were shrouded in asbestos cloth, it was said to reduce temps considerably. You cant get that easily everywhere though... Several builders have already discovered that this is a great way of ensuring a short life for your exhaust pipes. I think there's a note in the Europa technical bulletins somewhere advising against wrapping the exhaust pipes. Tony ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:40 AM PST US From: Alex Kaarsberg Subject: Re: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk --> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg > > ># DO NOT ARCHIVE # >There are no arguments not to believe the Wright story unless youre going >by hearsay. The only thing the Wrights did was invent the worlds first >efficient prop, the first engine that would be light enough to use in an >airplane, and the first fixed wing fully controllable airplane. They flew it >from a runway without a Catapult, documented it with photos and witnesses. >Given the time and lack of past research to go by it was an astounding feet. >Oh did I mention they also invented wind tunnel research. >As far as it taking 20 years for the French beaurocracy to finally >understand the truth. Whats New! > >Jeff >A258 > > > Oh but there are plenty, for those with an axe to grind, :-) my good countryman Santos Dumont was registered as the first for a long time and it would thus be wrong not to stand up for him in these nationalistic times.... Firstly there is the fact that the photograph used as evidence was only published five years after the event, in the paper Illustration June 6 1908. Funny thing to keep such news so secret for so long? Then there are the witnesses, were they local farmers? In any case they did not conform to the requirements of the time. Thus it appears the report of the flight itself is hearsay, no more.... Then there is the fact the replica did not make it airborne today, perhaps the wind was less than the 40 kt required to get this airborne, ho ho.. They did good things for flying, a great prop among other things, but first to fly? Cant say for sure and I dont think it is so important, really. The brits love to call Mr Whittle the inventor of the jet, but forget the Italian (forgot his name :-) ) who invented it, Whittle made it work. The Germans like to think they had VTOL sorted out before the Brits with their Dornier. And so it goes... The Danes know that it was a Dane who discovered electromagnetism and we, his descendants should have a right to royalties on all related products (Practically on every product in existance today, $$$$$...) It was, of course also Danish vikings who discovered America which should give us the right to be Fathers of America. (Conveniently forgetting about the previous inhabitants) And so I could go on, but I think I will start thinking about getting back to get my own contraption to look like a plane- sorry for the waisted bandwith. Alex #529 in hot Sao Paulo. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:51 AM PST US From: Alex Kaarsberg Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall heat shield. --> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg Tony S. Krzyzewski wrote: >Several builders have already discovered that this is a great way of >ensuring a short life for your exhaust pipes. I think there's a note in >the Europa technical bulletins somewhere advising against wrapping the >exhaust pipes. > >Tony > > > Thanks for that one Tony! Do you know why, is it about corrosion or what? Alex ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:52 AM PST US From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall heat shield. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" I have read that the 914 now comes with an exhaust that is much more heat resistant than the older version. Will this new exhaust take wrapping? Ron Parigoris "Tony S. Krzyzewski" wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" > > >> I have seen one Rotax installation where the exhaust pipes were > shrouded in asbestos cloth, it was said to reduce temps considerably. > You cant get that easily everywhere though... > > Several builders have already discovered that this is a great way of > ensuring a short life for your exhaust pipes. I think there's a note in > the Europa technical bulletins somewhere advising against wrapping the > exhaust pipes. > > Tony > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Operation Kitty Hawk From: James H Nelson --> Europa-List message posted by: James H Nelson Dave, I installed a cowl flap that seems to have reasonable effect. I mounted it in the outlet of the cowl and it goes from (on the ground) about 45 degrees downward, to almost fully closed. (about 1-1/4" gap to fully closed. It functions with a push pull knob on the instrument panel under the radio stack. Pix are available if you want something to ponder over. Jim Nelson N15JN ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fire wall heat shield. From: James H Nelson --> Europa-List message posted by: James H Nelson Alex, Don't cover the exhaust pipes with insulation. It will cause premature failure of the pipes. I just shielded the pipes from other parts on the engine. Where the left rear pipe comes very close to the pilots foot well, I mounted a thin stainless steel shield half way between the parts and bolted the shield to the foot well. This prevented heat in the form of IR radiation from baking the foot well in that area. I also made a shield for the right rear pipe to keep it from baking the electronics and other goodies in that area. I have had no problems with a too warm foot wells since I made those shields. I fly in Florida so its a bit warm here most of the year. Jim Nelson N15JN ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Longer Legs From: James H Nelson --> Europa-List message posted by: James H Nelson Hi Steve, I also had to lengthen my outriggers. I went to my local plastics warehouse and got Nylon 66 rod and cut new lengths to reach the ground. I also left about 1/2" shy on each side. Since I fly alone almost all the time I'm not worried what will happen when loaded. The outrigger slants rearward and will take up any scrunching with a full load. Jim Nelson N15JN ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:08 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Firewall heat shield. From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" >> Thanks for that one Tony! >> Do you know why, is it about corrosion or what? Yes. Lagging the pipes has led to early corrosion. What a few Rotax owners have down here is have a high temperature bake on insulator applied by one of our local companies, High Performance Coatings. http://www.hpcoatings.co.nz/exhaust.htm. This has worked very well without the corrosion problems associated with lagging. Tony ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:50 PM PST US From: DJA727@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Operation Kitty Hawk --> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com In a message dated 12/17/2003 12:44:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, europajim@juno.com writes: > Dave, > I installed a cowl flap that seems to have reasonable effect. I > mounted it in the outlet of the cowl and it goes from (on the ground) > about 45 degrees downward, to almost fully closed. (about 1-1/4" gap to > fully closed. It functions with a push pull knob on the instrument panel > under the radio stack. Pix are available if you want something to ponder > over. > > Jim Nelson > N15JN > Thank you Jim, I would love to see those pictures as that is exactly what I am planning. The big question I have is how to route and anchor the control cable. If you could send me pictures off line, I'd appreciate it. thanks, Dave A227 Mini U2 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:53 PM PST US From: "bryan allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall heat shield. --> Europa-List message posted by: "bryan allsop" Experiencing 450 F in the footwell seems incredible. But then, so does the concept of sitting at the hold in 95 F. For those of us in more moderate climates (viz the UK) I would think it unlikely that we would experience problems like this. My 912S in an XS Mono has never shown the least tendency to get hot around the footwell, nor have there been any signs within the cowling to that effect.Quite the contrary. I have to blank a serious part of the radiator to maintain a reasonable running temp in the winter. Others I have spoken to with the same format have experienced the same characteristics. My build is strictly to the manual, with no heat lagging on the firewall. The venting and exhaust are also to the manual. So far my primitive carbonmonoxide indicators have shown nothing up, nor have I ever felt unwell after 220 hours in it, so there has been no reason to consider changing any venting arrangements. I go to the trouble of writing this to reassure builders. Sometimes they can be alarmed into making unnecessary mods. Please think very carefully before departing from the build instruction. All of these little extras can sound very tempting, but you are trying to build a Europa. Remember that you need to have a target weight of 800lbs to leave 570lbs free to take two adults with full fuel plus 80lbs of luggage and headsets. If you can manage to achieve that target weight, an XS with a 912s is a superb aeroplane. It takes off like a rocket and can cruise at 130 knots, with a simple fixed pitch prop. Have fun, flying, or building. Bryan A. K 360 G- BYSA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Roberts" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall heat shield. > > Early in our build (XS mono-wheel with 912S) we heard stories of heat > > from the engine compartment getting into the foot wells (smoking the > > carpeting?!) and in front of the instrument panel, heating up the > > radios, etc. We decided to put cool mat on our firewall to keep out > > this heat. > > With 300+ hours on our plane, I would strongly recommend some form of > > insulation on the firewall. We had temperatures of up to 450 degF at > > the front of the footwell, melting tie wraps into drops of nylon. > > Although we have since reduced those extreme temperatures to less than > > 300 degF, that is still pretty warm. > > With all the temperature extremes we have had, there has never been > > noticable heat into the cabin or instrument panel. > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:11 PM PST US From: "Kevin Klinefelter" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Firewall heat shield. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" My 914 has the new exhaust silencer and it looks as if the bulge in the lower cowl is no longer necessary. Don't know if its more "heat resistant" Kevin -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald J. Parigoris Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall heat shield. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" I have read that the 914 now comes with an exhaust that is much more heat resistant than the older version. Will this new exhaust take wrapping? Ron Parigoris "Tony S. Krzyzewski" wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" > > >> I have seen one Rotax installation where the exhaust pipes were > shrouded in asbestos cloth, it was said to reduce temps considerably. > You cant get that easily everywhere though... > > Several builders have already discovered that this is a great way of > ensuring a short life for your exhaust pipes. I think there's a note in > the Europa technical bulletins somewhere advising against wrapping the > exhaust pipes. > > Tony > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:54 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Kaarsberg" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk | --> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg | | > | > | ># DO NOT ARCHIVE # | >There are no arguments not to believe the Wright story unless youre going | >by hearsay. The only thing the Wrights did was invent the worlds first | >efficient prop, the first engine that would be light enough to use in an | >airplane, and the first fixed wing fully controllable airplane. They flew it | >from a runway without a Catapult, documented it with photos and witnesses. | >Given the time and lack of past research to go by it was an astounding feet. | >Oh did I mention they also invented wind tunnel research. | >As far as it taking 20 years for the French beaurocracy to finally | >understand the truth. Whats New! | > | >Jeff | >A258 | > | > | > | Oh but there are plenty, for those with an axe to grind, :-) my good | countryman Santos Dumont was registered as the first for a long time and | it would thus be wrong not to stand up for him in these nationalistic | times.... | | Firstly there is the fact that the photograph used as evidence was only | published five years after the event, in the paper Illustration June 6 | 1908. Funny thing to keep such news so secret for so long? | | Then there are the witnesses, were they local farmers? In any case they | did not conform to the requirements of the time. | Thus it appears the report of the flight itself is hearsay, no more.... | | Then there is the fact the replica did not make it airborne today, | perhaps the wind was less than the 40 kt required to get this airborne, | ho ho.. | | They did good things for flying, a great prop among other things, but | first to fly? Cant say for sure and I dont think it is so important, | really. | | The brits love to call Mr Whittle the inventor of the jet, but forget | the Italian (forgot his name :-) ) who invented it, Whittle made it work. | The Germans like to think they had VTOL sorted out before the Brits with | their Dornier. And so it goes... | The Danes know that it was a Dane who discovered electromagnetism and | we, his descendants should have a right to royalties on all related | products (Practically on every product in existance today, $$$$$...) | It was, of course also Danish vikings who discovered America which | should give us the right to be Fathers of America. (Conveniently | forgetting about the previous inhabitants) | And so I could go on, but I think I will start thinking about getting | back to get my own contraption to look like a plane- sorry for the | waisted bandwith. | | Alex #529 in hot Sao Paulo. Alex in Sao Paulo.......... Good news! The first published map to include the word "America" was sat plumb in the middle of present-day Brasil....... So perhaps you are the real America......... Ferg A064 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:36 PM PST US From: "Troy Maynor" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Operation Kitty Hawk --> Europa-List message posted by: "Troy Maynor" Me too Jim.... Troy Maynor N120EU Monowheel Classic Left to finish: Paint,interior,engine install, wiring. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > DJA727@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:20 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Operation Kitty Hawk > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com > > In a message dated 12/17/2003 12:44:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, > europajim@juno.com writes: > > > Dave, > > I installed a cowl flap that seems to have reasonable effect. I > > mounted it in the outlet of the cowl and it goes from (on the ground) > > about 45 degrees downward, to almost fully closed. (about 1-1/4" gap to > > fully closed. It functions with a push pull knob on the > instrument panel > > under the radio stack. Pix are available if you want something > to ponder > > over. > > > > Jim Nelson > > N15JN > > > > Thank you Jim, > > I would love to see those pictures as that is exactly what I am > planning. The > big question I have is how to route and anchor the control cable. If you > could send me pictures off line, I'd appreciate it. > > thanks, > > Dave > A227 > Mini U2 > >