Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:03 AM - Re: Paint coverage (now degenerating into politics ... and semantics) (Paul Mansfield)
2. 05:18 AM - Cowl Flap ()
3. 07:39 AM - Re: Paint coverage (now degenerating into politics ... and semantics) (Fergus Kyle)
4. 08:09 AM - Re: Cowl Flap (DJA727@aol.com)
5. 08:26 AM - Re: politics ... and semantics nit picking (ScramIt@aol.com)
6. 08:32 AM - Re: Paint coverage (now degenerating into politics ... and seman... (Trevpond@aol.com)
7. 08:36 AM - Re: politics ... and semantics nit picking (Cliff Shaw)
8. 08:59 AM - Re: politics ... and semantics nit picking (Gerry Holland)
9. 10:34 AM - Trail edge thickness and shape (Ronald J. Parigoris)
10. 10:52 AM - Centenary Fly In Turweston/Drop of The Hat Europas (David Joyce)
11. 11:41 AM - Re: politics ... and semantics nit picking (Augustene Brown)
12. 01:42 PM - Re: Trail edge thickness and shape (James H Nelson)
13. 02:56 PM - Re: Centenary Fly In Turweston/Drop of The Hat Europas (bryan allsop)
14. 06:48 PM - Re: Trail edge thickness and shape (n3eu@comcast.net)
15. 09:32 PM - Re: Cowl Flap (Ralph Hallett III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Paint coverage (now degenerating into politics ... and |
semantics)
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Mansfield" <m@nsfield.screaming.net>
...and, oh yes, you spell funny too :)
Yeah, but we know when to use an adverb (funnily; not funny).
While we're at it, you don't "do good", you "do well"; et hoc genus omne...
Paul 383 XS Mono
Tail & wings complete, cockpit in... grammar text out
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
I too have made a cowl flap although it is for a Jabiru 3300 and Jab
cowl. The Bowden cable from the panel moves a lever/wheel that pushes
the flap down and a spring (from a rat trap) causes it to rise. The
cable/lever do not need to be disconnected when removing the lower
cowling. (I copied that idea from a Brit, sorry I don't remember the
name.) Photos are available.
Tom Friedland, XS Mono N96V
beecho@beecho.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DJA727@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Operation Kitty Hawk
--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
In a message dated 12/17/2003 12:44:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
europajim@juno.com writes:
> Dave,
> I installed a cowl flap that seems to have reasonable effect. I
> mounted it in the outlet of the cowl and it goes from (on the ground)
> about 45 degrees downward, to almost fully closed. (about 1-1/4" gap
to
> fully closed. It functions with a push pull knob on the instrument
panel
> under the radio stack. Pix are available if you want something to
ponder
> over.
>
> Jim Nelson
> N15JN
>
Thank you Jim,
I would love to see those pictures as that is exactly what I am
planning. The
big question I have is how to route and anchor the control cable. If you
could send me pictures off line, I'd appreciate it.
thanks,
Dave
A227
Mini U2
=
==
==
==
==
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Paint coverage (now degenerating into politics ... and |
semantics)
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mansfield" <m@nsfield.screaming.net>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Paint coverage (now degenerating into politics ...
and semantics)
| --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Mansfield"
<m@nsfield.screaming.net>
| ...and, oh yes, you spell funny too :)
| Yeah, but we know when to use an adverb (funnily; not funny).
| While we're at it, you don't "do good", you "do well"; et hoc genus
omne...
| Paul 383 XS Mono
| Tail & wings complete, cockpit in... grammar text out
Quite so, Paul.
The retort is usually, "Well you know what I mean."
The L-1011 manual included instructions for landing 'overweight'. It was
copied from the Lockheed manual as a requirement of the licensing agency -
and was so written that it required the pilot to land overweight with at
least 45 degrees of bank because of the grammar employed.
Despite the obvious failure to communicate, it took over two years for the
amendment to correct the error. I guess a dozen or so 'specialists' who
can't spell "aircraft" had to mull the point before shoving in the OUT
basket.
Ferg
Of course you know what I mean.
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
In a message dated 12/18/2003 5:19:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
beecho@beecho.org writes:
>
> I too have made a cowl flap although it is for a Jabiru 3300 and Jab
> cowl. The Bowden cable from the panel moves a lever/wheel that pushes
> the flap down and a spring (from a rat trap) causes it to rise. The
> cable/lever do not need to be disconnected when removing the lower
> cowling. (I copied that idea from a Brit, sorry I don't remember the
> name.) Photos are available.
>
> Tom Friedland, XS Mono N96V
> beecho@beecho.org
>
Thanks Tom, I think that is what I am going to do the very same thing. I'd
love to see photos if you would send them to me.
Thanks,
Dave Anderson
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: politics ... and semantics nit picking |
--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>
Having suffered my whole life from dyslexia; being thrown out of school in
4th grade, my parents having been told that I might be "special", let me tell
you the occasional mispelled word is no reflection of the man. It can take me
over an hour to write a five line email, only to have my wife check it to make
"english" out of it. You try writing when there are no rules for spelling, the
alphabet has no order, and you have to memorize what every word looks like.
But that being said, my dyslexia is a gift. I can look at something and know
how it works. I assembled my out riggers with looking at the drawing twice. I
can often troubleshoot problems and come up with solutions on the fly, from
unrelated systems and ideas.
If the cost of this is a few mispelled words or improper english, so be it.
I'd much rather be me...
SteveD.
Do not archive.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Paint coverage (now degenerating into politics ... and |
seman...
--> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com
In a message dated 18/12/2003 15:40:07 GMT Standard Time, VE3LVO@rac.ca
writes:
> and, oh yes, you spell funny too
Well I started it, so I have better finish it. This is what happens when you
use a US spellchecker, i.e. MS Word. Enough said.
Trev Pond
914 Trigear
flying one day
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: politics ... and semantics nit picking |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Me too !Well said ! (only it was the second grade in my case)
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
New Email:" flyinggpa@comcast.net "
----- Original Message -----
From: <ScramIt@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: politics ... and semantics nit picking
> --> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>
>
> > | ...and, oh yes, you spell funny too :)
> >
> Having suffered my whole life from dyslexia; being thrown out of school in
> 4th grade, my parents having been told that I might be "special", let me
tell
> you the occasional mispelled word is no reflection of the man. It can take
me
> over an hour to write a five line email, only to have my wife check it to
make
> "english" out of it. You try writing when there are no rules for spelling,
the
> alphabet has no order, and you have to memorize what every word looks
like.
> But that being said, my dyslexia is a gift. I can look at something and
know
> how it works. I assembled my out riggers with looking at the drawing
twice. I
> can often troubleshoot problems and come up with solutions on the fly,
from
> unrelated systems and ideas.
> If the cost of this is a few mispelled words or improper english, so be
it.
>
> I'd much rather be me...
>
> SteveD.
>
> Do not archive.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: politics ... and semantics nit picking |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Steve Hi!
> If the cost of this is a few mispelled words or improper english, so be it.
>
> I'd much rather be me...
>
Absolutely and BTW.....
To be able to complain about the spelling of a word you must recognise the
word to know it's not spelt right!!!
Nit Pickers will be the first up against the wall come the Revolution!
Kind Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Trigear with 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
Fuselage being Painted, Wings ready to paint, Flying surfaces painted
Airframe Wiring complete, Full Size Panel 50% done . Includes Dynon EFIS,
KMD 150,
Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder. AoA Fitted.
Activity on Panel completion, Design and build Heater Unit.
+44 7808 402404
gnholland@onetel.com
Do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Trail edge thickness and shape |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
What is recommended trail edge thickness to shoot for Aileron, Flap and
Stabilator?
Should I shoot for a square edge with a slight radius at the sharp edges, or
should i make it a true radius?
Thanks
Ron Parigoris
Message 10
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| Subject: | Centenary Fly In Turweston/Drop of The Hat Europas |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Congratulations and thanks to the Europa mid weekers who joined in the Gloucester
Strut fly in. We were 18 Europas in all, which was a great effort, particularly
as the group had to depart from their principle of not paying landing fees!
It was felt that getting Pink Chits next week might be problematical so
the next Drop of the Hat event will be in the week starting 29 December. Dave
Watts was/has volunteered to organise it.
With Seasonal Best Wishes, David Joyce
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: politics ... and semantics nit picking |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Augustene Brown <augustene@cfl.rr.com>
ScramIt@aol.com wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>
>
>
>
>>| ...and, oh yes, you spell funny too :)
>>
>>
>>
>Steve,
>
>
>
There are those few obnoxious boors who will always find a way to try
discredit their fellows. Wouldn't it be nice to get back to the
original intent of the forum - to support fellow builders, fellow
flyers, and share information.
Regards,
Augustene Brown
XS Monowheel N398JB
Flying since 2000 and going strong
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Trail edge thickness and shape |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James H Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Ron,
A square edge is what you want. You need the disturbance created
by the square edge to control the airflow over the aileron ect..
To make my 6" aileron trim more effective, I had to make the
trailing edge about 3/8" thick like the trim tabs on the horizontal
stabilizer to make it effective. I origionally had to have the trim tab
up about 5/8 to 3/4" to effectivly control the starboard wing. (keep it
down) But with the increased thickness on the trim tab, I only have to
move it about 1/4" to have the same effictiveness. So the shape of the
trailing edge is important to the effictiveness of that airfoil.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Centenary Fly In Turweston/Drop of The Hat Europas |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "bryan allsop" <info@blackballclub.fsnet.co.uk>
18 made it eh? And I missed out because my toy is back in its' box for a few
weeks.I would have loved to be there, if only to see them paying up. It goes
against the principles of the mid weeker fliers.
Merry christmas. Bryan A
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Centenary Fly In Turweston/Drop of The Hat Europas
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce"
<davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Congratulations and thanks to the Europa mid weekers who joined in the
Gloucester Strut fly in. We were 18 Europas in all, which was a great
effort, particularly as the group had to depart from their principle of not
paying landing fees!
> It was felt that getting Pink Chits next week might be
problematical so the next Drop of the Hat event will be in the week starting
29 December. Dave Watts was/has volunteered to organise it.
> With Seasonal Best Wishes, David Joyce
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Trail edge thickness and shape |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> What is recommended trail edge thickness to shoot for Aileron,
> Flap and Stabilator?
>
> Should I shoot for a square edge with a slight radius at the
> sharp edges, or should i make it a true radius?
>
> Thanks
> Ron Parigoris
Both above questions are covered in detail in Hoerner's companion books on "Fluid
Dynamic Lift" and "Fluid Dynamic Drag". As a practical matter, the thickness
of the trailing edge on Europa's airfoils is constrained by how much surface
between top/bottom skins remains for secure bonding. At 1/8" thickness or less,
Hoerner just about says it's all irrelevant. So I believe that both thickness
and rounding of the edges so as to best permit paint to flow nicely and
more permanently adhere in service has no appreciable aerodynamic effect.
Nevertheless, in theory, a trailing knife-edge reduces interference drag. Especially
for ailerons, a blunt thick edge, especially with sharp corners, increases
drag -- called base drag, but it also increases control effectiveness. This
is because of a pair "vortex streets" created in the dead space behind the
trailing edge, increasing drag but also promoting airflow attachment upon aileron
deflection.
But not necessarily desirably. There is an aileron AD on my other plane, where
you can chop off the aileron trailing edge (to about 3/4" thick) to get out of
a perpetual 100-hr aileron disassembly/inspection routine. Don't ask the relationship
of the two; a long story and makes sense to FAA!
What happens, though, is that the increased "figure of merit" vs. aileron lift
effects results two things. Small aileron deflections have reduced control effect
about neutral; but increased aileron lift upon large deflections translates
to higher lateral stick forces. Europa's Flettner strips on the trim tabs
I think are an exaggerated derivative of the phenomenon, as is Jim Nelson's observation
about aileron trimmers. But on my other plane, the result of complying
with the "hacksaw option A" in the AD is reportedly a total ruination of aileron
control feel, both sensitivity in cruise flight and control forces in maneuvering.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Ralph Hallett III <n100rh@sbcglobal.net>
Tom,
Would you mind including me in your distribution of photos. For the same reason
that Dave needed them...
Ralph Hallett
n100rh@sbcglobal.net
Thanks much
Ralph
DJA727@aol.com wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
In a message dated 12/18/2003 5:19:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
beecho@beecho.org writes:
>
> I too have made a cowl flap although it is for a Jabiru 3300 and Jab
> cowl. The Bowden cable from the panel moves a lever/wheel that pushes
> the flap down and a spring (from a rat trap) causes it to rise. The
> cable/lever do not need to be disconnected when removing the lower
> cowling. (I copied that idea from a Brit, sorry I don't remember the
> name.) Photos are available.
>
> Tom Friedland, XS Mono N96V
> beecho@beecho.org
>
Thanks Tom, I think that is what I am going to do the very same thing. I'd
love to see photos if you would send them to me.
Thanks,
Dave Anderson
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