Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:16 AM - Re: politics ... and semantics nit picking (Andy Draper)
2. 01:48 AM - Semantics & nit picking - oil on troubled waters (Paul Mansfield)
3. 04:39 AM - Re: Semantics & nit picking - oil on troubled waters (Mike Clifford)
4. 08:02 AM - Re: Semantics & nit picking - oil on troubled waters (Rob Housman)
5. 09:12 AM - Re: Kitty Hawk (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
6. 09:19 AM - Re: Trail edge thickness and shape (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
7. 09:45 AM - Firewall heat shield. (Graham Singleton)
8. 09:45 AM - Inventions (Graham Singleton)
9. 10:32 AM - Re: Kitty Hawk (Alex Kaarsberg)
10. 10:40 AM - Re: Inventions (Alex Kaarsberg)
11. 12:09 PM - Re: Inventions (Nigel Graham)
12. 01:13 PM - Re: Inventions (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
13. 02:30 PM - Re: Kitty Hawk (Karel Vranken)
14. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: Cowl Flap (Ralph Hallett III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: politics ... and semantics nit picking |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Well said Augustene.
Merry Christmas to you and Jim and have a Happy New Year too. (Perhaps I shouldn't
have used capital letters......maybe someone will let me know!)
Regards,
Andy
There are those few obnoxious boors who will always find a way to try
discredit their fellows. Wouldn't it be nice to get back to the
original intent of the forum - to support fellow builders, fellow
flyers, and share information.
Regards,
Augustene Brown
XS Monowheel N398JB
Flying since 2000 and going strong
Message 2
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| Subject: | Semantics & nit picking - oil on troubled waters |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Mansfield" <m@nsfield.screaming.net>
I fear some misunderstanding:
There was some talk of Imperial vs Metric measurements, followed by a joke
about the way the English spell - I knew it was a joke because it had :)
after it!!
I replied with a not funny joke about adverbs (they're never funny if you
have to explain) and it all went horribly wrong from there...
I know that nobody intended any slur - most especially on anybody dyslexic.
I have nothing but admiration for Steve's gift of technical insight - I'm
trying to build an aeroplane (that spelling thing again!) with mechanical
dyslexia -- now that's a real disadvantage!
We may be "two nations separated by a common language"; but we are one group
joined by a common bond - love of the air.
Peace and goodwill ....
Paul
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Augustene Brown
Subject: Re: Europa-List: politics ... and semantics nit picking
--> Europa-List message posted by: Augustene Brown
--> <augustene@cfl.rr.com>
ScramIt@aol.com wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>
>
>
>
>>| ...and, oh yes, you spell funny too :)
>>
>>
>>
>Steve,
>
>
>
There are those few obnoxious boors who will always find a way to try
discredit their fellows. Wouldn't it be nice to get back to the
original intent of the forum - to support fellow builders, fellow
flyers, and share information.
Regards,
Augustene Brown
XS Monowheel N398JB
Flying since 2000 and going strong
>
>
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Semantics & nit picking - oil on troubled waters |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Clifford" <mike@mlclifford.demon.co.uk>
I have been enjoying the banter thoroughly - (e)specially about how its'
spelt
Mike - dreaming about owning and flying a Europa
Message 4
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| Subject: | Semantics & nit picking - oil on troubled waters |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Paul, some may have misunderstood, but not I. Nor did I take offense
because I do know the difference between an adverb and an adjective and in
this example I did indeed fail to notice my incorrect usage (which I can not
even blame on "American English" usage). Ergo, nothing "went horribly
wrong."
...and you guys talk funny too ;-)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Mansfield
Subject: Europa-List: Semantics & nit picking - oil on troubled waters
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Mansfield"
<m@nsfield.screaming.net>
I fear some misunderstanding:
There was some talk of Imperial vs Metric measurements, followed by a joke
about the way the English spell - I knew it was a joke because it had :)
after it!!
I replied with a not funny joke about adverbs (they're never funny if you
have to explain) and it all went horribly wrong from there...
I know that nobody intended any slur - most especially on anybody dyslexic.
I have nothing but admiration for Steve's gift of technical insight - I'm
trying to build an aeroplane (that spelling thing again!) with mechanical
dyslexia -- now that's a real disadvantage!
We may be "two nations separated by a common language"; but we are one group
joined by a common bond - love of the air.
Peace and goodwill ....
Paul
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Augustene Brown
Subject: Re: Europa-List: politics ... and semantics nit picking
--> Europa-List message posted by: Augustene Brown
--> <augustene@cfl.rr.com>
ScramIt@aol.com wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>
>
>>| ...and, oh yes, you spell funny too :)
>>
>>
>>
>Steve,
>
>
There are those few obnoxious boors who will always find a way to try
discredit their fellows. Wouldn't it be nice to get back to the
original intent of the forum - to support fellow builders, fellow
flyers, and share information.
Regards,
Augustene Brown
XS Monowheel N398JB
Flying since 2000 and going strong
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 12/17/2003 2:40:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kaarsber@terra.com.br writes:
> Oh but there are plenty, for those with an axe to grind, :-) my good
> countryman Santos Dumont was registered as the first for a long time and
> it would thus be wrong not to stand up for him in these nationalistic
> times....
Wasn't it Santos Dumont who exclaimed, after seeing the Wrights demonstrate
their Flyer III in France (circa 1908-09) complete with 360 degree turns, "We
are beaten! We do not exist!" I seem to recall that from my History of Aviation
class at Embry-Riddle some 22 odd years ago.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245 (Working on flap extensions having finally successfully drilled my
tiebar and W-34 gusset plates after 3 tries)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Trail edge thickness and shape |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Regarding boundary layer separation on trailing edges, has anybody tried the
zigzag tape commonly used on gliders as a method of trailing edge boundary
layer separation?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 7
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| Subject: | Firewall heat shield. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 17/12/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Tony S. Krzyzewski wrote:
>
> >Several builders have already discovered that this is a great way of
> >ensuring a short life for your exhaust pipes. I think there's a note in
> >the Europa technical bulletins somewhere advising against wrapping the
> >exhaust pipes.
>Thanks for that one Tony!
>
>Do you know why, is it about corrosion or what?
>
>Alex
Unknown to the company at the time, suppliers stopped using stainless for
the runners and switched to mild steel. The very hot gases Rotax exhaust
just burnt through the pipes. I know of no problems with the earlier
stainless runners. There was an issue related to vibration causing cracking
but that was easily avoided by proper support of the weight of the silencer
and balancing the prop. Warps are not well balanced and the old Classic
spinners were very poor in this respect. (suppliers again ? or emptor lack
of caveat?)
The current silencer seems very good.
Ceramic coating is believed to keep a lot of the heat in the gases but I
have no experience with it.
Graham
---
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 17/12/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>It was, of course also Danish vikings who discovered America which
>should give us the right to be Fathers of America. (Conveniently
>forgetting about the previous inhabitants)
There is evidence (genetic and artifacts, flint tools) that some of the
earliest Americans came from France around 17,000 years ago. They walked
there from SW France, round the edge of the ice. Probably driven out by
invading hooligans from the east.
Interesting but irrelevant ?;-)
Graham
---
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg <kaarsber@terra.com.br>
>
>
>Wasn't it Santos Dumont who exclaimed, after seeing the Wrights demonstrate
>their Flyer III in France (circa 1908-09) complete with 360 degree turns, "We
>are beaten! We do not exist!" I seem to recall that from my History of Aviation
>class at Embry-Riddle some 22 odd years ago.
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>Regards,
>
>John Lawton
>
As I merely go by hearsay in this whole debate and dont profess to any
scholastic efforts worth mentioning, I can only say that I believe you.
The Wright Brothers were said to be bent on getting lucrative military
contracts in connection with their patents on the flyers where Santos
Dumont was a peacenik- he killed himself when he learnt of the use
aircraft had been put to in the war.
Did they have to provide proof of having flown before Santos Dumont to
achieve their patent?
S.D. did not patent anything as far as I know, but wanted the knowledge
to go to the good of humanity. Being the son of a rich man allowed for
that...
It is easy to imagine an altruist seeing the work of his peers and
becoming enthusiastic.
...but if the pictures were only published in 1907 (when they had a 4 x
stronger engine-the first gave some 28kg/hp (sorry SIists/Imperialists etc.)
I still dont see where the proof is for the date of the first flight.
The outburst you quote above certainly alludes to the performance of the
MkIII much later?
All that being said, their work and many of their contemporaries work
all went to what we know today.
The Wrights got started when they read of Lilienthal and he in turn must
have learnt of others before him.
If the Wrights had had a better engine in 03 I am sure they would have
flown...:-P :-D
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Alex
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg <kaarsber@terra.com.br>
>There is evidence (genetic and artifacts, flint tools) that some of the
>earliest Americans came from France around 17,000 years ago. They walked
>there from SW France, round the edge of the ice. Probably driven out by
>invading hooligans from the east.
>Interesting but irrelevant ?;-)
>Graham
>
>
>
And I am sure the striking similarity between native americans, north as
well as south america, with asians and inuits must be proof of something
similar.
Still doesnt mean I dont want the title of Father of America to give
them an earfig when they need one! ;-)
Alex
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" <nigel_graham@btclick.com>
.......probably did it to escape the exorbitant taxation!
Nigel;-)
There is evidence (genetic and artifacts, flint tools) that some of the
earliest Americans came from France around 17,000 years ago. They walked
there from SW France, round the edge of the ice. Probably driven out by
invading hooligans from the east.
Interesting but irrelevant ?;-)
Graham
---
=
==
==
==
==
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 12/19/2003 3:10:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
nigel_graham@btclick.com writes:
> There is evidence (genetic and artifacts, flint tools) that some of the
> earliest Americans came from France around 17,000 years ago.
I was reading an article a couple of months back that stated divers off the
coast of South Carolina found an ancient sea shore and with it stone tools that
pre-date the Clovis find by some 12,000-15,000 years or roughly dated at
27,000 years ago. Then again, with reference to the Vikings, Columbus, et al, how
do you "discover" a continent that already had 20 million people living on it?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
(no building today, fighting off a cold)
Message 13
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Karel Vranken" <karelvranken@hotmail.com>
In 1980 while I was a glider instructor, they asked me to write an article
about gliding history.
During that exercise I received a book written by Kurt W. Streit and John
W.R. Taylor about the History of Aviation.
I was impressed and will relate here some of the introduction in my school
english because the original book is in German and my mothertongue is Dutch.
Only 100 years passed by since the Wright brotrhers undertook publicly a
flight with a motorized aircraft heavier than the air. Their first flight on
december 17th 1903 was smaller than the wingspan of a modern airliner.
But was it the first motorflight of history? Certainly not. Rechearch hat
been untertaken and they know about a certain Gustav Weisskopf, born in
Leuterhausen and emigrated to the U.S.A. where he was named Gustav
Whitehead. He should have flown in Bridgeport (Connecticut) on august 14th
1901 with a homebuild motorized aircraft over 1.4 miles.
Historians will always be confronted with such problems. Was the He 178 the
first "jet" in 1939? Or was it the Coandas in 1910 who was the first
"turbo-prop"?
Even if we accept that the Wright brothers and Weisskopf did the first by
men controlled flights; than we can't deny that Karl Jatho in august 1903
made longer flights in Germany as Orville did by his first hop.
Nevertheless, it were the Wright brothers who became famous as they mastered
flights admired by all pioneers in the world short after their first essay.
The honor and glory is well merited as they were certainly the first who
didn't only fly straight on, but also curved and flew across the Hudson
river. Their great tutor was Otto Lilienthal.
The Wrights were at their moment the masters in motorized flight but not the
firsts who left mother earth behind with controlled flying machines heavier
than the air.
Lilienthal ten years earlier did some 2.500 flights with a self made glider.
The motor aircraft of Flix du Temple had flown in 1873 in Brest for a short
distance and Sir George Cayley, 21 years before forced his coachman to fly
across a valley in Yorkshire.
To find other "firsts" we need to go back for nearly 200 years in 1783 when
the brothers Montgolfier invent the hot air balloon.
In Lisboa they have another story where the priest Bartholomeo Lorenzo de
Gusmao from Brazil (point to Alex) in 1709 demonstrated before king John V a
hot air balloon.
Here was a real beginning of conquering the air by trying to make the dreams
of Leonardo da Vinci and Roger Bacon come true. It was a first attempt of
realising what until then was antique theory.
Anyway, we are lucky men because they all did what finally give us the
opportunity to build a modern home build. My thankfull heart encloses great
feelings for all the pioneers and last but not least: Thank you Ivan for the
dream, thank you Don for the beautifull wings.
Karel Vranken Belgium
#447 mono xs 912ULS Airmaster CSU paintings half way, panel nearly finished,
will fly next year and even if she will not be the first, be sure she is the
best.
Merry Christmas and happy landings!
>From: Alex Kaarsberg <kaarsber@terra.com.br>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Kitty Hawk
>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:32:03 -0200
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg <kaarsber@terra.com.br>
>
> >
> >
> >Wasn't it Santos Dumont who exclaimed, after seeing the Wrights
>demonstrate
> >their Flyer III in France (circa 1908-09) complete with 360 degree turns,
>"We
> >are beaten! We do not exist!" I seem to recall that from my History of
>Aviation
> >class at Embry-Riddle some 22 odd years ago.
> >
> >DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >John Lawton
> >
>
>As I merely go by hearsay in this whole debate and dont profess to any
>scholastic efforts worth mentioning, I can only say that I believe you.
>
>The Wright Brothers were said to be bent on getting lucrative military
>contracts in connection with their patents on the flyers where Santos
>Dumont was a peacenik- he killed himself when he learnt of the use
>aircraft had been put to in the war.
>Did they have to provide proof of having flown before Santos Dumont to
>achieve their patent?
>
>S.D. did not patent anything as far as I know, but wanted the knowledge
>to go to the good of humanity. Being the son of a rich man allowed for
>that...
>It is easy to imagine an altruist seeing the work of his peers and
>becoming enthusiastic.
>...but if the pictures were only published in 1907 (when they had a 4 x
>stronger engine-the first gave some 28kg/hp (sorry SIists/Imperialists
>etc.)
>I still dont see where the proof is for the date of the first flight.
>The outburst you quote above certainly alludes to the performance of the
>MkIII much later?
>All that being said, their work and many of their contemporaries work
>all went to what we know today.
>The Wrights got started when they read of Lilienthal and he in turn must
>have learnt of others before him.
>If the Wrights had had a better engine in 03 I am sure they would have
>flown...:-P :-D
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>Alex
>
>
Geschenkideen voor spetterende eindejaarsfeesten! http://www.msn.be/xmas
Message 14
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Ralph Hallett III <n100rh@sbcglobal.net>
MARWAL
europa-list@matronics.com wrote: Your email message was temporarily blocked by
my spam
filter. If you feel this is an error, please follow
these instructions.
The attached image contains a password.
Reply to this email and enter the password
in the subject or body of your reply.
Thank you.
This email account is protected with Spam Bully.
www.spambully.com
--> Europa-List message posted by: Ralph Hallett III
Tom,
Would you mind including me in your distribution of photos. For the same reason
that Dave needed them...
Ralph Hallett
n100rh@sbcglobal.net
Thanks much
Ralph
DJA727@aol.com wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
In a message dated 12/18/2003 5:19:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
beecho@beecho.org writes:
>
> I too have made a cowl flap although it is for a Jabiru 3300 and Jab
> cowl. The Bowden cable from the panel moves a lever/wheel that pushes
> the flap down and a spring (from a rat trap) causes it to rise. The
> cable/lever do not need to be disconnected when removing the lower
> cowling. (I copied that idea from a Brit, sorry I don't remember the
> name.) Photos are available.
>
> Tom Friedland, XS Mono N96V
> beecho@beecho.org
>
Thanks Tom, I think that is what I am going to do the very same thing. I'd
love to see photos if you would send them to me.
Thanks,
Dave Anderson
or a
> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=AACGYTIWFCO.jpg; name=AACGYTIWFCO.jpg
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