Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:04 AM - Drop of the Hat Midweek Fly-out to Enstone (David Watts)
2. 03:31 AM - Re: Bing carburettor, altitude compensation discussion (David Joyce)
3. 04:20 AM - Re: Re: AoA and flaps (Alex Kaarsberg)
4. 06:13 AM - Re: Drop of the Hat Midweek Fly-out to Enstone (ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk)
5. 01:23 PM - Drop of the Hat Midweek Fly-out to Enstone (David Watts)
6. 05:58 PM - Re: Re: AoA and flaps (Jan de Jong)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Drop of the Hat Midweek Fly-out to Enstone |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Watts" <dg.watts@virgin.net>
This weeks midweek flyout looks like it could take place tomorrow, Tuesday 30th,
with the forecast looking flyable at the moment.
A venue that is reasonably central that hasn't been visited before is Enstone,
10 miles Northwest from Oxford with the free landing voucher available in Pilot
magazine. Enstone has one 1100 metre asphalt runway and to the south of that
a 900 metre grass runway, both 08/26. There is fuel and light snacks available
(drinks, chocolate, crisps, etc) with more substantial food available on the
trading estate at the airfield entrance.
As usual arrival around 11.30 to 12.00.
I will put out a final confirmation later tonight (Monday) after I get another
weather update, although it might be quite late as I am away in the Southampton
area all day until late.
Dave Watts, G-BXDY
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Bing carburettor, altitude compensation discussion |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
John, As a matter of interest did you record air speed and ground speed for
these altitudes and rpm? David G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Bing carburettor, altitude compensation discussion
> --> Europa-List message posted by: John & Paddy Wigney
<johnwigney@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Perhaps I could add some of my observations to this discussion. I have
> recently done some checks at various altitudes and can report the
> following :-
>
> All results were done on the same flight and are at 5,500 rpm, at full
> throttle and the heights are pressure altitudes. The engine is a 912S
> and I have the data to prove that my fuel flow meter is accurate.
>
> 2,500 ft, OAT = 13 degC, 6.6 US gal/hr.
> 5,000 ft, OAT = 9.5 degC, 6.2 US gal/hr.
> 10,000 ft, OAT = 7 degC, 5.5 US gal/hr.
>
> I did not note the EGTs but will check these next time out.
>
> I do not have any technical info on the Bing carb but it appears to me
> that the fuel flow rate is certainly being adjusted with altitude. This
> is consistent with my understanding of how the similar SU carburettor
> works with the free floating piston and tapered needle being positioned
> according to the pressure in the carburettor throat. If the absolute
> pressure in the throat at full throttle is lower due to increased
> altitude/reduced density, the tapered needle will be lower in the jet
> and the fuel rate will decrease accordingly.
>
> Cheers, John
>
> N262WF, mono XS, 912S, Whirl Wind C/S prop, 220 hours
> Mooresville, North Carolina
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned using the CleanPort MEF antivirus
> system. Funded for members by the Doctors.net.uk Bulletin service
> How does this protect me? http://www.Doctors.net.uk/qualityemail
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AoA and flaps |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Alex Kaarsberg <kaarsber@terra.com.br>
>
>
>Stall approach warners are probably not affected though - fixed leading
>edges should still stall at their characteristic angles, regardless of
>flaps (but at a lower airspeed, with flaps).
>
>Jan de Jong.
>
>
>
Extending your flaps with fixed leading edges increases lift coefficient
but the angle of incidence becomes smaller, draw a line from l/e to t/e
to see the chord at any given point and configuration and then hold it
against the relative airflow to see incidence.
Extending leading edge devices such as slats or l/e flaps increases the
angle of incidence again given a steady pitch angle.
So thats what you get, a dramatic change one or the other way in pitch
required to stall at a given speed when extending one or the other.
Alex
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Drop of the Hat Midweek Fly-out to Enstone |
--> Europa-List message posted by: ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk
Hi! Dave.
Obviously I won't make it from Savannah, but just to highlight the WX reallity
of over here to over there since arriving on 17th Dec. we are having only the
second day of cloud with one light shower overnight. Frost in the mornings but
shirt sleeve wall to wall blue skies throughout the rest of the days. All very
nice but inclined to be boring really because every day is so predictable!!!!
Happy New Year to all the Saga Saga Drop of the Hat Fly in guys. Hope to join
you early in January for at least one fly in until I need to attend to
confounded oil leaks!
BFN
Bob and Jan Harrison G-PTAG
Quoting David Watts <dg.watts@virgin.net>:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Watts" <dg.watts@virgin.net>
>
> This weeks midweek flyout looks like it could take place tomorrow, Tuesday
> 30th, with the forecast looking flyable at the moment.
>
> A venue that is reasonably central that hasn't been visited before is
> Enstone, 10 miles Northwest from Oxford with the free landing voucher
> available in Pilot magazine. Enstone has one 1100 metre asphalt runway and to
> the south of that a 900 metre grass runway, both 08/26. There is fuel and
> light snacks available (drinks, chocolate, crisps, etc) with more substantial
> food available on the trading estate at the airfield entrance.
>
> As usual arrival around 11.30 to 12.00.
>
> I will put out a final confirmation later tonight (Monday) after I get
> another weather update, although it might be quite late as I am away in the
> Southampton area all day until late.
>
> Dave Watts, G-BXDY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Drop of the Hat Midweek Fly-out to Enstone |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Watts" <dg.watts@virgin.net>
Hi all,
it looks like the weather is still prepared to play ball so we are on for tomorrow,
Tuesday, at Enstone.
See you all there,
Dave Watts G-BXDY
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: AoA and flaps |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
> So thats what you get, a dramatic change one or the other way in pitch
> required to stall at a given speed when extending one or the other.
This is as I (now) understand both the insistence that a correct AoA
(lift coefficient) calculation requires recalibration with flap setting
and the satisfactory operation of stall warners irrespective of flap
setting.
It all depends what you want to accomplish:
1. Whole wing
The whole wing gets a new lift coefficient (defined as lift per dynamic
pressure in some units or other) when it changes shape. The wind angle
for zero lift for the whole wing changes for instance when the chord
line changes. So a new translation from geometric angle to aerodynamic
angle. I agree on that.
2. Stall of a critical section
A flapless wing section stalls at a certain (geometric) relative wind
angle, whatever the rest of the wing looks like. The same is probably
true for the fixed leading edge of a flapped section. For a stall
approach warning the lift/angle properties of the whole wing are not
relevant as long as the sensor measures the geometric relative wind
angle of a critical fixed piece of wing. Critical is the operative word:
if this stalls then all stalls (I wonder if for a wing with LE slats
such a representative fixed piece of wing exists).
Does this sound reasonable?
Jan de Jong
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