Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:56 AM - Re: Andair (p-a.austin)
2. 01:53 AM - Andair (Brian Hutchinson)
3. 02:24 AM - Expanding brake fluid? (Richard)
4. 03:58 AM - Re: Mono-Wheel Retracted Position (Kingsley Hurst)
5. 06:38 AM - Re: Expanding brake fluid? (ivor.phillips)
6. 07:42 AM - Hi John (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
7. 07:51 AM - Re: Hi John (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
8. 07:59 AM - Wing tip lighting (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
9. 08:47 AM - Re: Wing tip lighting (ScramIt@aol.com)
10. 11:32 AM - Re: Wing tip lighting (Paul McAllister)
11. 11:57 AM - Re: Wing tip lighting ()
12. 12:13 PM - Re: Wing tip lighting (n3eu@comcast.net)
13. 12:22 PM - Re: Expanding brake fluid? (n3eu@comcast.net)
14. 12:29 PM - Wing tip lights (Paul Stewart)
15. 12:52 PM - Wing tip lighting (Fergus Kyle)
16. 01:11 PM - Re: Wing tip lighting (Cliff Shaw)
17. 03:06 PM - Re: Expanding brake fluid? (ivor.phillips)
18. 03:45 PM - Re: Wing tip lighting (n3eu@comcast.net)
19. 06:19 PM - Re: KIT FOR SALE (Jim Graham)
20. 08:58 PM - Re: KIT FOR SALE (Jim Graham)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "p-a.austin" <p-a.austin@xtra.co.nz>
Hello team,
Anyone had any dealings with Andair?
Ordered and received Fuel tank selector and Gascolator etc, very nice, but
find a few parts missing, send several quiries to Andair through Owen
Phillips but never as yet received a reply.
Regards
Peter
Classic #198
>
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Hutchinson" <hutch@hangarbout.fsnet.co.uk>
Hi Peter
I ordered some hose fittings for an Andair gascolator, and waited many months (can't
remember exactly) for them to arrive. I recall several phone calls on the
matter, but it seems they tool up to make a batch production of a particular
product, so if your order arrives at the wrong time, then you just have to wait.
Not very good service in this day and age, but they are outstanding quality
parts. I share your frustration.
Brian Hutchinson
mono 357
5 Years into the build...making a bit of a meal of it!
-> Europa-List message posted by: "p-a.austin" <p-a.austin@xtra.co.nz>
Hello team,
Anyone had any dealings with Andair?
Ordered and received Fuel tank selector and Gascolator etc, very nice, but
find a few parts missing, send several quiries to Andair through Owen
Phillips but never as yet received a reply.
Regards
Peter
Message 3
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| Subject: | Expanding brake fluid? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
My apologies if this question has been asked before but I have not been
able to access the forum for some months now.
Having finished my tri-gear G-RIXS last summer, I had other things to do
during the latter half of last year and my airplane remained in the
garage until last week when I attempted to wheel it out. I found the
brakes appeared to be seized solid but eventually discovered that I
could release them by bleeding a little fluid out of each cylinder. Two
days later the same thing occurred and again today. I have asked Neville
at the factory but he hasn't come across this before.
I changed the seals in the cylinders before installation as per
instructions and used DOT5 synthetic brake fluid.
Anyone else had this problem or can suggest a reason / solution?
Richard Iddon.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Mono-Wheel Retracted Position |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
"Kevin Klinefelter" wrote:-
> I bought Kim Prout's wheel fairing. The forward half of the fairing,
> attached to the swingarm......................
Many thanks Kevin.
Regards
Kingsley
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Expanding brake fluid? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Expanding brake fluid?
>> I changed the seals in the cylinders before installation as per
> instructions and used DOT5 synthetic brake fluid.
>
> Anyone else had this problem or can suggest a reason / solution?
The problem with DOT5 fluid is any water in the system will remain as water
and sink to the lowest part off the system, which naturally can cause
corrosion between the aluminium piston and calliper,
If the brakes have been left pressurised for a long period of time the seals
can swell a small amount, making the pistons stick,
The other possibility is the parking brake hydraulic valve is sticking
closed, bleeding the system should solve the problem,
A email to MATCO tech dept last week about my reluctance to use DOT5 fluid
for the reasons stated above, elicited the response to use ATF hydraulic
fluid instead of DOT 5, But unfortunately i am still trying to determine if
ATF will be suitable for the new finger brake master cylinder seals,
My preferred choice would be DOT 5.1 fluid which is far superior to the
standard hydraulic fluids used, but would need the seals changed in the
callipers,
http://www.minimania.com/MM/BRAKES___Silicone_brake_fluid__to_use_or_not_to_use___that_is_the_question__785.htm
http://hometown.aol.com/tfrecord/page30.html
read these two articles for further enlightenment
regards
Ivor Phillips
XS486
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
Happy New Year John:
Thought I would drop you a line and ask about my backorders. Any word yet?
Thanks
Brian Skelly
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
Oops! Sorry folks... Wrong email address! < feeling stupid>
Brian
Do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Wing tip lighting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
I'm looking at the Spruce and Wicks catalog and am aghast at the pricing for
the 3 lights in one wing tip kits. The Whelen kit with the A600 series lights
is about $775.00! It's FAA approved.
There is a brand called offered by both companies called Aeroflash which
appears to be very similar in picture and description to the Whelen.
The Aeroflash unit is non-PMAed but sells for a whopping $325.00 less than
the Whelen unit. The price is so much less that I'm very skeptical about
quality.
How about a few opinions?
Thanks!
Brian in Texas A 276
Muddling through Chapter 8
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip lighting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
I have the Whelen low energy two light system. ACS P/N 11-05600. draws <
4A-14V. I went with I because it is what three other builders in my EAA local
used. They did a bunch or research, and picked the whelen system. I push the "I
believe button" and made the purchase. Not very scientific, but it did save me
a
bunch of hand ringing and searching the web for info.
Hope that helps,
SteveD.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip lighting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi Brian,
One consideration you will need to make is the power consumption of the
strobes and lights. If you have 914 which needs an electric fuel pump then
the electrical demand can approach the limits of the alternator
I put a single strobe on the tail fin and a single position light in the
rudder to reduce the power requirements for this reason.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: <EuropaXSA276@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Wing tip lighting
> --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
>
> I'm looking at the Spruce and Wicks catalog and am aghast at the pricing
for
> the 3 lights in one wing tip kits. The Whelen kit with the A600 series
lights
> is about $775.00! It's FAA approved.
>
> There is a brand called offered by both companies called Aeroflash which
> appears to be very similar in picture and description to the Whelen.
> The Aeroflash unit is non-PMAed but sells for a whopping $325.00 less than
> the Whelen unit. The price is so much less that I'm very skeptical about
> quality.
>
> How about a few opinions?
>
> Thanks!
> Brian in Texas A 276
> Muddling through Chapter 8
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Wing tip lighting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
" I put a single strobe on the tail fin and a single position light in
the
rudder to reduce the power requirements for this reason."
Aye, so did I. I also added the strobe/taillight to the rudder as it
didn't cost much more. I also bought my power supply from an internet
site (can't think of the name of it right now.) that cost half as much
as a Whelen aircraft supply and supplies the same power, commit flash,
etc and it turns out to have been made by Whelen! I put the supply in
the tail as many others with CS props have found that they need to add
weight to the tail to get their cg's right. I also am putting in LED
position lights behind Graham's wingtip lenses and will add a 55watt
halogen light to each for recognition and landing lights. (cheap, $30
to two at auto supply stores.)
If anyone wants details, email directly.
Tom, California, beecho@beecho.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
McAllister
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing tip lighting
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi Brian,
One consideration you will need to make is the power consumption of the
strobes and lights. If you have 914 which needs an electric fuel pump
then
the electrical demand can approach the limits of the alternator
I put a single strobe on the tail fin and a single position light in the
rudder to reduce the power requirements for this reason.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: <EuropaXSA276@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Wing tip lighting
> --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
>
> I'm looking at the Spruce and Wicks catalog and am aghast at the
pricing
for
> the 3 lights in one wing tip kits. The Whelen kit with the A600
series
lights
> is about $775.00! It's FAA approved.
>
> There is a brand called offered by both companies called Aeroflash
which
> appears to be very similar in picture and description to the Whelen.
> The Aeroflash unit is non-PMAed but sells for a whopping $325.00 less
than
> the Whelen unit. The price is so much less that I'm very skeptical
about
> quality.
>
> How about a few opinions?
>
> Thanks!
> Brian in Texas A 276
> Muddling through Chapter 8
>
>
==
==
==
==
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip lighting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> I'm looking at the Spruce and Wicks catalog and am aghast at the pricing for
> the 3 lights in one wing tip kits. The Whelen kit with the A600 series lights
> is about $775.00! It's FAA approved.
>
> There is a brand called offered by both companies called Aeroflash which
> appears to be very similar in picture and description to the Whelen.
> The Aeroflash unit is non-PMAed but sells for a whopping $325.00 less than
> the Whelen unit. The price is so much less that I'm very skeptical about
> quality.
>
> How about a few opinions?
>
> Thanks!
> Brian in Texas A 276
The Aeroflash units do not meet FAA's current intensity requirements for the strobes.
Whether or not they are legal in homebuilts is a fuzzy area. Part 91
permits night flight only with "approved" lights, with no guidance as to what
constitutes approval for homebuilts. Which means potential for legal problems
someday, including denial of insurance coverage -- something only the builder
can decide whether it's something to worry about.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Expanding brake fluid? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> ...I found the
> brakes appeared to be seized solid but eventually discovered that I
> could release them by bleeding a little fluid out of each cylinder. Two
> days later the same thing occurred and again today.
>
> I changed the seals in the cylinders before installation as per
> instructions and used DOT5 synthetic brake fluid.
>
> Anyone else had this problem or can suggest a reason / solution?
>
> Richard Iddon.
I interpreted the manual to mean, by changing the piston cups to the ones supplied,
automotive DOT brake fluid is not used, but rather the Mil-H-6060 red stuff.
At least the latter has not caused any swelling of the seals, a potential
cause of the problem?
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 14
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
The strobe unit from airworld uses a fraction of the power of the whelen
unit - it will also run whelen strobe lights - we have wing tip versions
installed. See http://www.airworlduk.com.
Regards
Paul Stewart #432
Message 15
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| Subject: | Wing tip lighting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
> I'm looking at the Spruce and Wicks catalog and am aghast at the
pricing for > the 3 lights in one wing tip kits. The Whelen kit with the
A600 series lights > is about $775.00! It's FAA approved.
>
> There is a brand called offered by both companies called Aeroflash
which > appears to be very similar in picture and description to the
Whelen. > The Aeroflash unit is non-PMAed but sells for a whopping $325.00
less than
> the Whelen unit. The price is so much less that I'm very skeptical
about > quality. >
> How about a few opinions?
> Thanks!
> Brian in Texas A 276
> Muddling through Chapter 8
" I put a single strobe on the tail fin and a single position light in the
rudder to reduce the power requirements for this reason."
Aye, so did I. I also added the strobe/taillight to the rudder as it
didn't cost much more. I also bought my power supply from an internet site
(can't think of the name of it right now.) that cost half as much as a
Whelen aircraft supply and supplies the same power, commit flash, etc and it
turns out to have been made by Whelen! I put the supply in the tail as many
others with CS props have found that they need to add weight to the tail to
get their cg's right. I also am putting in LED position lights behind
Graham's wingtip lenses and will add a 55watt halogen light to each for
recognition and landing lights. (cheap, $30 to two at auto supply stores.)
If anyone wants details, email directly.
Tom, California, beecho@beecho.org
Hi Brian,
One consideration you will need to make is the power consumption of the
strobes and lights. If you have 914 which needs an electric fuel pump then
the electrical demand can approach the limits of the alternator
I put a single strobe on the tail fin and a single position light in the
rudder to reduce the power requirements for this reason.
Paul
-----------------------------
Ah Jeez..
If you want to enjoy a moments superiority at my expense, read on:
Because I spent so many years glued to the windscreen big 3 airliners,
petrified Id centrepunch Claude and Muriel in their in Super Spaghetti Six
4-seater, I swore to spot the best legal lights for my fellow airman and
opted for Whelen top-o-th-line wingtip assemblies, and compounded the move
by adding separate generators out at the tips to avoid any hash from the
system. I wanted to preserve inner serenity for Ham radios galore in the
wings.
Now you tell me
Ferg Europa A064 mono
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip lighting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Brian
I installed the Aeroflash. I have three power supplies because I put one in
the Rudder too. The wing tip units I used do not show aft. They are in tip
lenses that I made.
I have a 912S and did a all up power usage test with no problem. ( wish I
could remember the amp draw, think is was just over 12 amps) I have all
solid state electronics.
In short, I would recommend the Aeroflash. The FAA will not even look at
them if you are not applying for IFR airworthiness.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds WA 98020
(425) 776-5555
N229WC "Wile E Coyote"
New Email:" flyinggpa@comcast.net "
----- Original Message -----
From: <EuropaXSA276@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Wing tip lighting
> --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
>
> I'm looking at the Spruce and Wicks catalog and am aghast at the pricing
for
> the 3 lights in one wing tip kits. The Whelen kit with the A600 series
lights
> is about $775.00! It's FAA approved.
>
> There is a brand called offered by both companies called Aeroflash which
> appears to be very similar in picture and description to the Whelen.
> The Aeroflash unit is non-PMAed but sells for a whopping $325.00 less than
> the Whelen unit. The price is so much less that I'm very skeptical about
> quality.
>
> How about a few opinions?
>
> Thanks!
> Brian in Texas A 276
> Muddling through Chapter 8
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Expanding brake fluid? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
DOT5 silicone brake fluid is combatable with both types of seals used in the
master cylinders and callipers,its just unfortunate that it has many
drawbacks!
The latest DOT 5.1 is far superior to the silicone fluid but is glycol based
so the seals in the callipers are not suitable, If Europa had replaced the
calliper seals with automotive ones and left the master cylinders ones alone
then there wouldn't be a problem, Bleeding the system would be easier and
you would have a much firmer pedal/lever and a greatly reduced chance of
brakes dragging on and fading,
The downside is water accumulating in the system, easily rectified at the
annual check-up by bleeding the system, damaging paintwork if careless,
you are quite correct not to use automotive DOT3/4/5.1 with the current
seals.
but DOT5 silicone, is synthetic and is suitable although far from perfect!
The Mil-H-6060 Hydraulic fluid is broadly similar to Automatic transmission
fluid ATF, both IMHO preferable to silicone DOT5.
regards
Ivor Phillips
> > ...I found the
> > brakes appeared to be seized solid but eventually discovered that I
> > could release them by bleeding a little fluid out of each cylinder. Two
> > days later the same thing occurred and again today.
> >
> > I changed the seals in the cylinders before installation as per
> > instructions and used DOT5 synthetic brake fluid.
> >
> > Anyone else had this problem or can suggest a reason / solution?
> >
> > Richard Iddon.
>
> I interpreted the manual to mean, by changing the piston cups to the ones
supplied, automotive DOT brake fluid is not used, but rather the Mil-H-6060
red stuff. At least the latter has not caused any swelling of the seals, a
potential cause of the problem?
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip lighting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
Cliff Shaw wrote:
> The FAA will not even look at
> them if you are not applying for IFR airworthiness.
>
Boy, that's not very complimentary to an FAA inspector...lighting has nothing to
do with IFR. It's actually irrelevant what the inspector inspects. The wording
of the actual operating limitations controls, and they may say that night
flight is permitted "if equipped" with "approved" lighting. This places the onus
of compliance on the operator, not the builder nor the inspector. The chances
of a legal problem in this regard are remote as long as the strobes are "adequate,"
but nevertheless that's the way the law works w/r/t op lims. As the
hapless builder found out in a famous case against Avemco Insurance Co. The
guy moved a fuel pump; didn't fix the problem; moved it back to the original
"certificated" position; crashed due to vapor lock. Insurance denied and upheld
in litigation, since the op lims letter re FAA notification of the mods was
not adhered to.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: KIT FOR SALE |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Graham <jlgraham@erols.com>
Hi Ray,
I'm Europa builder A101, Tri-Gear XS, but have had an experience with
work a bit similar to yours--almost a full year in the UK in 2001, then
a new job now that is going 10-12 hours a day... so am just too worn
out to build too. So, also looking to sell. Just wondering if you
ever sold yours, and what you got for it and how you sold it, if I may
be so nosey... Just wondering, as I know now I really have to sell mine
(sadly), and the sooner, I guess the better.
Thanks--
Jim Graham
Fairfax Station, VA
On Monday, Jul 7, 2003, at 12:11 US/Eastern, Ray M. Knapp wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ray M. Knapp"
> <rmkhomes@charter.net>
>
> Hi All,
> Well, I got all excited, purchased a kit, planned to complete it in
> a hurry - and - CHANGES. My business has boomed - I simply have no
> time. Will have to stick with Cessna. So I've got Kit # A196 for sale
> - $22,000. Full monowheel kit, fast build options, long range fuel
> tank
> & speed kit. No work done except all steel parts are Cadmium plated.
> Wings still shrink-wrapped. Located in Medford, Oregon. E-mail is
> best: rmkhomes@charter.net or call 541-899-4041.
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: KIT FOR SALE |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Graham <jlgraham@erols.com>
Sorry gang, I did not mean for the earlier e-mail to go to all on the
list... I actually did know better from earlier threads, but the
"reply" button was too near to hand, and I forgot.
However, in any case, now that the cat is out of the bag, I would be
happy to hear thoughts from anyone--either interest or advice. Here
are the particulars:
Europa XS Tri-Gear, S/N A-101, purchased originally in May 1998
Price: $20,500 Located in Fairfax Station, VA, USA (20 mi SW of
Washington DC)
Included:
Standard Tri-Gear Kit=97
=95 Stage 1 (tail surfaces and wing control surfaces)
=95 Stage 2 (wings, pre-built, must be closed out);
=95 Stage 3 (fuselage, cockpit module, and flight controls);
=95 Remaining fiberglass and epoxy (several gallons)
=95 Alodine, Metalprep, and Zinc Chromate (~1 gal each)
=95 Approx 25-30 2-3 lb sandbags
=95 Builder=92s manual/documentation + one Europa mod kit for horiz tail
Equipment and jigs included in the price (if you like):
=95 Fuselage dolly
=95 All parts containers, inventory shelving, and inventory material
Work Completed:
Rudder, horizontal tail up to the point of attachment to torque tube,
cockpit module trimmed)
Not included:
Stage 4 (firewall forward), engine, paint, cockpit upholstery
Other equipment available, but priced separately if you want it (I will
keep otherwise)
=95 Fastech Citation Forced Air breathing system (20 amp 110v), including
all breathing hoses with Y, two face masks, HVLP hose, HVLP spray
gun--$500 (cost new ~$990) (probably 40 hours of use)
=95 Electronic Scales (Ohaus Scout Model SC-4010=85 400g x 0.1g) $40 (cost
new now $119)
If anyone is interested, let me know at my e-mail address below.
Otherwise, please forgive my near-commercial use of the Europa List
this one time.
Thanks--
Jim Graham
jlgraham@erols.com
On Sunday, Jan 11, 2004, at 21:15 US/Eastern, Jim Graham wrote:
> Hi Ray,
>
> I'm Europa builder A101, Tri-Gear XS, but have had an experience with
> work a bit similar to yours--almost a full year in the UK in 2001,
> then a new job now that is going 10-12 hours a day... so am just too
> worn out to build too. So, also looking to sell. Just wondering if
> you ever sold yours, and what you got for it and how you sold it, if I
> may be so nosey... Just wondering, as I know now I really have to sell
> mine (sadly), and the sooner, I guess the better.
>
> Thanks--
> Jim Graham
> Fairfax Station, VA
>
>
> On Monday, Jul 7, 2003, at 12:11 US/Eastern, Ray M. Knapp wrote:
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ray M. Knapp"
>> <rmkhomes@charter.net>
>>
>> Hi All,
>> Well, I got all excited, purchased a kit, planned to complete it
>> in
>> a hurry - and - CHANGES. My business has boomed - I simply have no
>> time. Will have to stick with Cessna. So I've got Kit # A196 for
>> sale
>> - $22,000. Full monowheel kit, fast build options, long range fuel
>> tank
>> & speed kit. No work done except all steel parts are Cadmium plated.
>> Wings still shrink-wrapped. Located in Medford, Oregon. E-mail is
>> best: rmkhomes@charter.net or call 541-899-4041.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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