Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - Re: Electric flap servo? (R.C.Harrison)
2. 01:27 AM - Re: Electric flap servo? (Andy Draper)
3. 01:35 AM - Re: Electric flap servo? (Andy Draper)
4. 02:32 AM - Electric flap servo? (Graham Singleton)
5. 04:48 AM - Re: Baggage Bay splash? (KARL HEINDL)
6. 06:44 AM - Re: Baggage Bay splash? (John & Amy Eckel)
7. 08:02 AM - Fw: Touring Scotland or round it ! (R.C.Harrison)
8. 08:50 AM - Re: Baggage Bay splash? (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
9. 09:43 AM - Re: Baggage Bay splash? (R.C.Harrison)
10. 11:50 AM - Thruxton Drop of the Hat Fly In (RMRRick@aol.com)
11. 12:53 PM - Re: Electric flap servo? (James Nelson)
12. 12:53 PM - Re: Length of Dipole Antenna (James Nelson)
13. 01:41 PM - Re: Electric flap servo? (Ami McFadyean)
14. 01:42 PM - Re: Dynamic balancing? (UK only) (Ami McFadyean)
15. 02:21 PM - Re: Length of Dipole Antenna (Fergus Kyle)
16. 02:55 PM - Electrical Loads (Tony Renshaw)
17. 03:34 PM - Re: Safe Heating Sources. (Mike Parkin)
18. 04:06 PM - Re: Electrical Loads (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
19. 05:33 PM - Re: Baggage Bay splash? (Robert Berube)
20. 05:52 PM - Re: Electrical Loads (Robert Berube)
21. 06:46 PM - Re: Length of Dipole Antenna (n3eu@comcast.net)
22. 10:03 PM - Re: Safe Heating Sources. (Jeff Roberts)
23. 11:38 PM - Re: Thruxton Drop of the Hat Fly In (William Mills)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Electric flap servo? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Steve,
Who said you can't have electric flap servo? As I understand it, it is
possible but you would need some warning device to remind you that the
stabilisers were up or down since they only activate at fully deployed flap
position ? All IMHO of course!
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
----- Original Message -----
From: <ScramIt@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Electric flap servo?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 1/15/04 9:43:49 PM, flyinggpa@comcast.net writes:
>
> > ( Try adding the electric flap servo after the baggage bay is
> > installed!!!!!)
> >
> I asked if I could add the electric flap servo with a mono wheel and was
told
> no. I never like the idea of full flaps every time, but loved the design
so
> much I still went with the Europa.
> So, you can add the servo?
>
> SteveD.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Electric flap servo? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
>>> "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk> 16/01/04 08:33:38 >>>
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Steve,
Who said you can't have electric flap servo? As I understand it, it is
possible but you would need some warning device to remind you that the
stabilisers were up or down since they only activate at fully deployed flap
position ? All IMHO of course!
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
----- Original Message -----
From: <ScramIt@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Electric flap servo?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 1/15/04 9:43:49 PM, flyinggpa@comcast.net writes:
>
> > ( Try adding the electric flap servo after the baggage bay is
> > installed!!!!!)
> >
> I asked if I could add the electric flap servo with a mono wheel and was
told
> no. I never like the idea of full flaps every time, but loved the design
so
> much I still went with the Europa.
> So, you can add the servo?
>
> SteveD.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Electric flap servo? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Dear Steve,
As we have been asked to supply a number of electric flap systems for those converting
to a conventional gear taildragger and also we do similar for the Tri-gear
conversions, we have decided to formalise things by producing a Mod (Mod
68). We are in the process of getting it approved here, but that would not be
necessary for you in the USA, of course. The instructions have been done and
are in the proof reading stage. I'd expect to have a kit of parts ready by the
end of next week.
I don't think that it's been priced up yet, but that shouldn't take long to do.
Please contact Ray <ray@europa-aircraft.com> for an update next week if you
wish.
Best Regards
Andy Draper
Technical Director
e-mail andy@europa-aircraft.com
>>> <ScramIt@aol.com> 16/01/04 03:08:08 >>>
--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
In a message dated 1/15/04 9:43:49 PM, flyinggpa@comcast.net writes:
> ( Try adding the electric flap servo after the baggage bay is
> installed!!!!!)
>
I asked if I could add the electric flap servo with a mono wheel and was told
no. I never like the idea of full flaps every time, but loved the design so
much I still went with the Europa.
So, you can add the servo?
SteveD.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Electric flap servo? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 15/01/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>I asked if I could add the electric flap servo with a mono wheel and was told
>no. I never like the idea of full flaps every time, but loved the design so
>much I still went with the Europa.
>So, you can add the servo?
I can't think of a valid reason to do that, you need the change in pitch
attitude to see over the front for landing. Full flaps is not a problem,
take off or landing.
Graham
---
Message 5
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| Subject: | Baggage Bay splash? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Hi Steve,
I did exactly as you described, also for the rear bulkhead. There was no
need
later to crawl into the back of the fuselage. Also, it makes a better job.
Cheers, Karl
>From: ScramIt@aol.com
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Baggage Bay splash?
>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:25:18 EST
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>
>I'm looking at my baggage with the top off. Everyone says that the lay-ups
>on
>the D are a pain. Can I splash flange the D shape and redux it in when the
>top goes on? Then I don't have to climb back there at all. Haven't been
>back
>there yet and I'd like to keep it that way.
>
>SteveD.
>A217
>
>
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage Bay splash? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Flight Crafters puts the D section in before bonding to top on. I can't
remember
exactly how they do it but it seems to me they bond the D section to the
canoe,
then put the top in place and draw a line on the top along the edge of the D
section. They take the
top off and apply the rear glass flange to the top. When they finally put
the top on they
redux the flange and press the D section against it. After curing they add
the glass in the
front of the D section. Hope this is clearer than mud.
John
> --> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>
> I'm looking at my baggage with the top off. Everyone says that the lay-ups
on
> the D are a pain. Can I splash flange the D shape and redux it in when the
> top goes on? Then I don't have to climb back there at all. Haven't been
back
> there yet and I'd like to keep it that way.
>
> SteveD.
> A217
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Fw: Touring Scotland or round it ! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! All
With appologies to those on my mail list who already have this message. I ommitted
to "patch" it up to the Europa List, and now realise my shortfall but I do
feel it is right for the group to share the pleasure of the said web site.
It was also announced on Page 17 of the current issue of "PILOT".
Hi! All.
A young Scottish friend,John, who I did my flying training with in Ormond Beach
, and his Brother Alan have been busy flying round Scotland taking wonderful
photographs.
Alan has put them all onto his website at :- http://www.alanmoar.flyer.co.uk
If you are planning a tour be it summer or winter ,by air or by sail boat a visit
to this great web site will give you dreams to start off and whet your appetite.
Furthermore who said the weather in Scotland was wicked?!
Well worth a visit to the web site then I defy you not to go see it all in real
life!
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300.
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage Bay splash? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good Day All,
Do both sides of the horizontal section of the baggage bay also get a BID
layup underneath?
Also, what kind of electrical load will the electric flap have on the already
weak Rotax alternator output? Does anyone have a pix of the setup beneath
their baggage bay?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Working on tailwheel. Conventional
Landing gear just arrived.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage Bay splash? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Mike.
The length of time associated with the use of the flap deployment motor is
minimal, can't imagine it being a load problem .
UNLESS you should have a total electrical failure then worst case is a
flapless landing without stabilisers! (you might choose to build in some
wing tip roller blades many gliders have them in anyway.
The embodiment of the mod. is simple ...just the electrics and the motor and
actuator having a plywood implant in the rear fusilage floor actuating on
the same flap actuating main cross tube lug. (Simply leave out the normal
flap push lever, the long one that has a crank offset in the middle ) Then
there is a visual flap position indicator transfer to mark on the wing/flap
port side in the viw of the Pilot.
I don't think it is necessary for the bid lay up under the horizontal
baggage bay floor to the wall but what the hell why not put it in if you
can?
Regards
Bob Harrison. G-PTAG Trike /Mono Convertible!
----- Original Message -----
> > Do both sides of the horizontal section of the baggage bay also get a
BID
> layup underneath?
> Also, what kind of electrical load will the electric flap have on the
already
> weak Rotax alternator output? Does anyone have a pix of the setup beneath
> their baggage bay?
>
>
> Mike Duane A207
Message 10
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| Subject: | Thruxton Drop of the Hat Fly In |
--> Europa-List message posted by: RMRRick@aol.com
Hi All
Well, G-RIKS and I had a great trip to Thruxton today. Slightly blustery but
the chef produced great bacon butties.
Perhaps someone else has ideas for next week?
All the best.
Rick Morris
G-RIKS trike
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Electric flap servo? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Steve,
You could do it but why??? It flys great and T.O. and landings
are fine. Why complicate the proceedures. Ivan designed it to work with
a minimum of work. Simplicity it at its best with the monowheel and its
gear, outrigger and flap workings.
Jim Nelson
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Length of Dipole Antenna |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Tony,
Get with one of the local ham radio operators that has a GOOD SWR
meter. Us it to "tune" the lengths to give you the best (lowest swr)
reflective power over the aircraft band. I have a very nice curve which
bottoms out about mid range. I did go and cut it to short and had to
solder some back on and re-trim but it works great. I have no problems
as of yet. I need to do a long cross country to check it out with the
big boys at altitude.
Jim Nelson
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Electric flap servo? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Landings are fine if you can get the flaps down far enough. I find that the
27.5 degrees available with the electric flaps is not enough for an other
than flat-profiled landing.
I don't see why it can't be made more. The setting for the monowheel (which
is slightly more) was optimised to the specific characteristics of the
monowheel configuration .
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Nelson" <europajim@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electric flap servo?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
>
> Steve,
> You could do it but why??? It flys great and T.O. and landings
> are fine. Why complicate the proceedures. Ivan designed it to work with
> a minimum of work. Simplicity it at its best with the monowheel and its
> gear, outrigger and flap workings.
>
> Jim Nelson
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Dynamic balancing? (UK only) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Sounds like a good case for convincing the Club to shell out on a dynamic
balancer. They're about 1500 a go at the moment; even if ,say, 50 was
charged for its hire we'd all be better off.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
Subject: Europa-List: Dynamic balancing? (UK only)
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
>
> Evening All
>
> Does any one know where I can get the prop/spinner dynamically balanced?
> The only source we know appears to charge around 350 for the service.
> Based at Kemble but can travel.
>
> Thanks
>
> Pete
> ---
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Length of Dipole Antenna |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Nelson" <europajim@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Length of Dipole Antenna
| Tony,
| Get with one of the local ham radio operators that has a GOOD SWR
| meter. Us it to "tune" the lengths to give you the best (lowest swr)
| reflective power over the aircraft band. I have a very nice curve which
| bottoms out about mid range. I did go and cut it to short and had to
| solder some back on and re-trim but it works great. I have no problems
| as of yet. I need to do a long cross country to check it out with the
| big boys at altitude. | Jim Nelson
Tony et al,
Or even better yet, try a local Ham who has an Antenna Analyser
(mention MFJ-259). It is quick and more analytical for easier tuning. If in
U.S. try the ARRL site for club nearest you. The boys are pretty helpful and
may be curious - which helps.............. If UK, try the RSGB site. Details
on request.
Ferg
A064
Message 16
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| Subject: | Electrical Loads |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Mike,
If you get any answers off forum about the electrical loads, I'd like to know.
Thanks.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
At 11:49 AM 1/16/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
>
>Good Day All,
>
>Do both sides of the horizontal section of the baggage bay also get a BID
>layup underneath?
>Also, what kind of electrical load will the electric flap have on the already
>weak Rotax alternator output? Does anyone have a pix of the setup beneath
>their baggage bay?
>
>
>Mike Duane A207
>Redding, California
>XS Conventional Gear
>CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Working on tailwheel. Conventional
>Landing gear just arrived.
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Safe Heating Sources. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
"What you folks call a heat wave, we call summer."
Let us not overstate it!!!
The average summer temperature in San Diego is around 76 F. I was referring
to temperatures in Europe in excess of 100F.
It didn't always get that hot in my backyard in Phoenix.
I think it was Mark Twain that wrote - "The coldest winter I ever spent was
a summer in San Francisco."
regards,
Mike
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Loads |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Tony,
The only reply that I have received said that since it is used for only a
small amount of the time the electrical load would be insignificant. I guess
that's as long as if you have an electrical problem in flight you have enough
battery left when it comes time to land to put the flaps down. I wonder how these
things are in a no flap landing?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Working on tailwheel. Conventional
Landing gear just arrived.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage Bay splash? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" <bberube@tampabay.rr.com>
Steve,
John had it partially correct, we do install the baggage bulkhead in the
lower section and temporarily install the top to mark the location of the D
section. We have a mold that we use to make a slpash of a flange that is
bonded in the top half along the previously marked position. Using flange
sections described in the previous posting sounds very doable as well.
Bob Berube A166BB Conventional (flying)
Flight Crafters
----- Original Message -----
From: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Baggage Bay splash?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
>
>
> Flight Crafters puts the D section in before bonding to top on. I can't
> remember
> exactly how they do it but it seems to me they bond the D section to the
> canoe,
> then put the top in place and draw a line on the top along the edge of the
D
> section. They take the
> top off and apply the rear glass flange to the top. When they finally put
> the top on they
> redux the flange and press the D section against it. After curing they add
> the glass in the
> front of the D section. Hope this is clearer than mud.
>
> John
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
> >
> > I'm looking at my baggage with the top off. Everyone says that the
lay-ups
> on
> > the D are a pain. Can I splash flange the D shape and redux it in when
the
> > top goes on? Then I don't have to climb back there at all. Haven't been
> back
> > there yet and I'd like to keep it that way.
> >
> > SteveD.
> > A217
> >
> >
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Loads |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" <bberube@tampabay.rr.com>
Mike,
No flap landings have been made with tri-gear and conventional with no
problems
If you feel more electrical amperage is needed, we have available a 40 amp
alternator that mounts to the vacuum pump pad. Contact me offline for
details.
Bob Berube A166BB Conventional Flying
Flight Crafters
----- Original Message -----
From: <DuaneFamly@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Electrical Loads
> --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
>
> Tony,
>
> The only reply that I have received said that since it is used for only a
> small amount of the time the electrical load would be insignificant. I
guess
> that's as long as if you have an electrical problem in flight you have
enough
> battery left when it comes time to land to put the flaps down. I wonder
how these
> things are in a no flap landing?
>
>
> Mike Duane A207
> Redding, California
> XS Conventional Gear
> CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Working on tailwheel.
Conventional
> Landing gear just arrived.
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Length of Dipole Antenna |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
Tony Renshaw wrote:
> Gidday,
> I am about to install my Europa dipole antenna to the back of my sternpost,
> and have a couple of questions regarding ideal length etc of each portion
> of antenna. Annex C at the end of the manaul outlines to make each portion
> 515 mm initially in length. The dimension in the schematic uses the
> dimension of 490*mm, so it is obvious to me there is a point somewhere
> within this range that is what I am after. Does anyone else have a more
> refined starting point?
Well it depends upon a "fudge factor" re the width of the copper strip you're using.
According to Jim Weir's book, if 12mm or so wide, then 515mm should peak
at 126mHz, roughly mid-band; 490 at 133 mHz (too high). If unable to actually
tune it with a VSWR meter, it's best to err on the side of legs too long.
That peaks performance down lower on the radio dial, where at least here in the
U.S. common freqs used in VFR abound.
If a copper strip vs. wire, precise length is not that critical as the thing will
be wide-band enough for practical use, as I found in actual testing.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Safe Heating Sources. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
Back to the safe heating source topic.
Could someone tell me the size of the door or flap used aft of the coolers
to pull heat up for cabin or carb heat as some have done?
Thanks,
Jeff A258
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Thruxton Drop of the Hat Fly In |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Hi Rick and All,
Sorry no one else was able to make it to Thruxton; I suspect the forecast
put some off, which turned out much better than predicted, at least it was
in South Wales. As I was unavailable to fly yesterday and the weather looks
good for Sunday, I thought I might try Lands End, which has a voucher in
"Pilot". I'm sure Duncan might like to have a go, because it is not much
further than Bodmin? Next week we could visit Manchester Barton EGCB, or
Tatenhill (both in "Pilot"). Does any one have a preference? If weekenders
would prefer to do either of the latter two venues on Sunday, rather than
Lands End, which is a bit remote for some, please let us know, as I am
willing to follow suit. Please reply on the forum and we can suit the
majority.
Best wishes,
William
(Do not archive)
----- Original Message -----
From: <RMRRick@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Thruxton Drop of the Hat Fly In
> --> Europa-List message posted by: RMRRick@aol.com
>
> Hi All
>
> Well, G-RIKS and I had a great trip to Thruxton today. Slightly blustery
but
> the chef produced great bacon butties.
>
> Perhaps someone else has ideas for next week?
>
> All the best.
>
>
> Rick Morris
> G-RIKS trike
>
>
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