Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:32 AM - Re: Re: USA Europa Fly-In at Oshkosh, WI (Dale G. HetriG Hetrick)
2. 08:02 AM - USA Europa Fly-in Oshkosh 2004 (Bob Jacobsen)
3. 08:15 AM - Re: any wise words for a new builder? (Paul Stewart)
4. 09:43 AM - Re: Drop of the Hat fly in Lands End (R.C.Harrison)
5. 11:34 AM - Back ordered parts (Alan Stills)
6. 12:24 PM - Re: Back ordered parts (Cliff Shaw)
7. 01:19 PM - Re: Gas tank and sight glass vents (n3eu@comcast.net)
8. 01:39 PM - Re: Back ordered parts (Alan Stills)
9. 02:13 PM - Re: Back ordered parts (Karel Vranken)
10. 02:33 PM - Oshkosh fly in (John & Paddy Wigney)
11. 02:40 PM - Lots of words for a New Builder.................... (Tony Renshaw)
12. 03:01 PM - Re: Oshkosh fly in (Dj Merrill)
13. 03:29 PM - Re: Finishing and Painting (Troy Maynor)
14. 03:45 PM - Re: USA Europa Fly-In at Oshkosh, WI (Troy Maynor)
15. 07:48 PM - Re: Finishing and Painting (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
16. 07:57 PM - Re: USA Europa Fly-in Oshkosh 2004 (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: USA Europa Fly-In at Oshkosh, WI |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dale G. HetriG Hetrick" <gdale2@juno.com>
nodfin
Message 2
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| Subject: | USA Europa Fly-in Oshkosh 2004 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
Hi All,
As John mentioned in his e-mail we are planning a group fly-in to AirVenture
for Europa's this year. This will be a great event and I hope we can get a
good percentage of flying Europas to attend.
John is doing a lot of work for us at Oshkosh planning parking, some meals
and gifts etc.
I will be doing the coordination for builders who are flying (or driving) to
Oshkosh.
I set up a web page at the europa-usa website so you can keep track of who
is going and where from. I will update this frequently with the latest
infortmation:
http://www.europa-usa.com/airventure_2004.htm
If you plan on flying a Europa to Oshkosh this year please contact me with
your name, aircraft number, location and I will get you on the list. My
e-mail is on the contact page.
If you are driving I also want to keep track for John drop me an e-mail and
I will have a list for that also - this will help with party planning for
builders.
I need a flight leader from each area to be a contact - If you are
interested let me know.
Thats all for now - keep an eye on the web page for information from both
John & Myself about this.
Thanks!!
Bob Jacobsen
A131 N165BB
info@galaxyhobby.com
High-speed usersbe more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: any wise words for a new builder? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Andy
I'm sure everyone has their favourite tools and tips. For us tools:
Dremel - mainly sanding wheels amd glassfibre reinforced cutting wheels
but a million uses.
Resin pump - there are those for and against but having used one we're
in the 'for ' camp
Permagrit tool pack
Straight edge of various lengths - we got aluminium extrusion from a
window manufacturer (one of the builders)
Rubber squee gee from aircraft spruce - larger and gentler than plastic
'credit card' type
Empty (and unused) mastic tubes - great for laying beads of redux (eg
bonding in cockpit module)
Loads of clamps - the overgrown clothes peg type have been great.
Happy building
Regards
Paul Stewart #432
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Drop of the Hat fly in Lands End |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! William
I was going for Cark then took a last minute weather check and ducked out.
Actually graced Sheffield with my presence, making use of the fax scenario I
had with them.
Good service and good cafe facilities, don't forget the high viz. jackets,
watch out for the turbulence departing 28 or landing 10, it is quite
something!
Overflew Coal Aston, where Bryan Allsop flies from .... he always told me it
was a field! Looks quite presentable as a grass strip, reckon he's keeping
it for him self !
Sorry I didn't make it to Land's End but I prefer to always fly TO the
doubtfull weather.
Now grounded for at least a week .
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Drop of the Hat fly in Lands End
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
<combined.merchants@virgin.net>
>
> Hello All,
> Anyone like to join me on a fly-in to Lands End tomorrow? The weather
looks
> good, the temperature is still mild and the days are getting longer. I
will
> aim for about mid-day.
> Regards,
> William
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Back ordered parts |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
Has anyone else had problems getting parts from the factory besides me? I' ve had
the front nose wheel fork backordered for about 6 months and can't seem to
get an answer of when it'll be here. Seems the factory (across the pond) doesn't
have a very good backorder system and can't quite keep track of items not shipped.Is
this normal or not? Whats others experience in these matters?
Al Stills
A095
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Back ordered parts |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Al
I share your problem I intend to go to Oshkosh this summer and speak to
Keith about this. ( I can get very direct at times) For the present. I am
trying to be very polite. I understand the problem with suppliers and
stocking parts in advance of sales. Remember, Europa as a company, is not
very big. A lot of us work for or even own much bigger outfits. John in
Florida has only one fulltime person, Patty.
They do need to do a better job. In many arias. Backorders are only one
problem, and I am sure Keith is aware of it.
We both need a nose gear wheel.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
Landing gear converson started, working on sockets.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Gas tank and sight glass vents |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> Hi Fred
> Move..
> No snow plows, no geese. 70 degrees here today. Sure could use some
> rain. Only 7 inches since last April. We need to dust things
> occasionally.
> Put your vent in the flap drive slot. Protected from splash, geese,
> etc.
Tom --
That mostly 70+-deg. stuff in San Diego got boring for me; or at least that attitude
helps with coping here. 'Nother winter storm tomorrow.
The fairing arrangement at my flap root is impractical for a vent, re pre-flight
inspection, and it may now be an area of negative pressure.
So my primary vent is run to a 1/4" hole in the leading edge of the vertical fin;
won't dribble out of there on a trigear I'd think. Approved by my shop's Aesthetics
Consultant (Luke N. Goode) and Director of Airworthiness (Kip M. Flein).
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Back ordered parts |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
Cliff,
I guess from what I understand they shop some parts out to "very" small
contractors and are pretty much at their mercy......but 6 months is a little
long. Worse than the wait is not being able to get an answer as to just when
the backordered parts will be in. I suppose it would help to donate a old
computer to the factory with a back order "pop up" to remind.
Al Stills
A095
Message 9
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| Subject: | Back ordered parts |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Karel Vranken" <karelvranken@hotmail.com>
Alan,
We in Belgium had the same problems as you have. Perhaps you have to mail it
to the big boss Keith Wilson.
Karel Vranken, mono XS # 447.
>From: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: Back ordered parts
>Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:33:59 -0700
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
>
>Has anyone else had problems getting parts from the factory besides me? I'
>ve had the front nose wheel fork backordered for about 6 months and can't
>seem to get an answer of when it'll be here. Seems the factory (across the
>pond) doesn't have a very good backorder system and can't quite keep track
>of items not shipped.Is this normal or not? Whats others experience in
>these matters?
>Al Stills
>A095
>
>
Hotmail: je gratis e-mail ! http://www.msn.be/hotmail
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney@worldnet.att.net>
Hi John,
Great news. I was wondering when the USA Europas were going to reach critical mass.
It sounds as though we are there. Count me in to join the fly-in. As you
know, I was at Oshkosh last year in N262WF and was able to show my plane in the
homebuilders' fly-by. I will travel from my base at 14A in Mooresville, North
Carolina and I may have a passenger with me from my local EAA chapter. Thanks
for pulling this together.
As I remember it last year, the parking space near the Europa stand had a large
number of assorted RV?'s and about 10 Velocities. I do not think that camping
was allowed in that area but was arranged without problem elsewhere.
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, 912S
<<<<Time: 12:43:15 PM PST US
From: "Europa Aircraft" <europa@gate.net>
Subject: Europa-List: USA Europa Fly-In at Oshkosh, WI
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa Aircraft" <europa@gate.net>
Hi All, We are planning our first mass Europa fly-in at Whitman field in Oshkosh,
WI. The Fly-In will be during the Airventure convention. The EAA has actually
been very generous, and reserved quite a bit of parking space for us on the
convention grounds at the field. The area will be adjacent to the Europa display
area.
Europa will be assisting the Europa USA & Canada owners group with organizing the
Fly-In. Europa will also provide a gift for each pilot that flies in.
In addition, if any UK fliers want to ship there airplanes over to tour the US
& fly in to Oshkosh, Europa's US office will provide assistance unloading at our
office in Lakeland, FL. We will also help with a temporary permit to fly.
Contact the Lakeland office if you wish to ship your plane over.
For more details visit http://www.europa-usa.com/airventure_2004.htm
Hope to see you there! John Hurst Europa Aircraft Lakeland, FL >>>>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Lots of words for a New Builder.................... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Gidday Andy,
I am hoping others might add to this list, not critique it, unless they feel it
is blatantly wrong. Together, the list should give you a pretty good idea.
Happy building.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
PERSONAL SAFETY
LUNG PROTECTION
Everything about this project is bad for you, especially your lungs, and if you
don't do the right thing now, well 20 years down the track, when your
struggling for breath, you'll remember this warning. Before anything you need a
respirator, dual filter, both chemical and particle. Mine is a Sundstrom. They
have negatives such as weight which can lead to a headache, but they go away.
Also the useful life of the cartridges is to suit an industrial application,
and no doubt based on 8 hours per day/ 7 days per week use. As I recall the
Sundstrom chemical cartridge had a useful life of only a month or two, and the
first sign of it depleting is smells drifting in. The charcoal depletes, but I
have used mine in heavily compromised atmospheres, like over the top of an
acetone bath, and "not a wiff up to 2 years later". I must stress that any
composite sanding is exceptionally dangerous, as too is the fibres of glass
that become airborne as you work with it. So, seriously consider wearing a
respirator when you cut your cloth, and if you have any doubts, do it on a late
afternoon, in the sun, and stand back. Look into the void above your workbench,
in the sun remember, and look at the small airborne fibres. You can't even make
a cut with a pair of finely serrated scissors (best for cloth cutting if your
pizza cutter razor wheel from the local haberdashery is blunt ), without a very
fine trail of fibres becoming airborne as you work.
SKIN PROTECTION-GLOVES etc.
Skin protection is very important, and like most builders you will probably
mature into using less protection as the process goes on. Unless you are doing
big wing layups or any that are likely to take hours upon end, at a minimum you
need gloves, disposable latex etc in boxes of 100. Now don't bath your hands in
acetone cleaning up with these gloves, because if you choose to test them by
filling them with acetone, they leak! So, the message is with submerging your
hands for prolonged periods like cleaning up your squeegees etc. use chemical
resistant "washing up gloves". Don't tolerate any part of your resin system to
stay on your skin knowingly, especially the hardener. DONT use liquid gloves
from Spruce that seal the pores of your skin for protection. I have it on good
authority that it doesn't work.
EYE PROTECTION
is next. Get a "Squirt wash bottle", normally coloured yellow, and find a place
for it to live such that "you can find it with your eyes closed". Remember to
change the water once in a while. Safety glasses, or normal ones are a must
too. Mix resin at arms length, which is quite unnatural, but you can make it
habit. It takes a lot more aggresive mixing to splash up into your face that
way. Also, you will get a hell of a lot less fumes.
MUST HAVE TOOLS
DIGITAL SCALES (flick the resin pump idea).
I am the resin pump expert, as I have stuggled repeatedly with one all my
Classic, "UN" moulded wing, tail etc. So, why do I say forget it??? Well they
principally "Kill Hardener". In the storage tank which contains the hardener,
it doesn't matter what you do, you will get air, and it will then interact with
the hardener, and destroy it by allowing the hardener to develop a white debris
scum, which then floats freely within the hardener, or sticks to the sides. I
have tried floating lids, plastic bags inside the container attempting to
deprive the hardener from air exposure, all to no avail I have thrown away more
hardener than I choose to think too closely about. The answer is a good set of
electronic scales, ideally Ohaus, accurate to 1/10 of a gram, to maintain
correct ratio for smaller mixes. You should make up nothing less than 50 grams,
but others will say 100, it depends on whether you have scales accurate to 1/10
gram or only to the gram.
CUPS & ACETONE
Cups, don't bother cleaning them out as you will go through copious
quantitities of acetone, which you want to buy a "20 litre" tin of anyway.
Others will talk about a whole range of other options that are less caustic,
but the bottom line is that the composite profession, and the vast majority of
builders use acetone. Get some cheap chinese food cups from a local restaurant
supplier. Buy paper towel from same, in minimum 2 roll quantities, because when
you need it you don't want to have to hunt for it, so leave plenty lying
around.
SYRINGES
Oh, back to the resin/hardener. The best answer is large volume syringes. You
decant hardener from the tin into a plastic cup, load up your syringe, and pour
the rest back into the tin, with the lid tightly back on. The syringe fully
charged is airtight and a great means of applying small quantities. Use scales
to accurately administer correct ratio of hardener to the resin. When cleaning
the syringes in acetone, this is the most likely occasion in my mind of an eye
injury. ALWAYS when applying outward pressure on a syringe into the bottom of a
shallow filled plastic cup of acetone, wear some form of splash protection, i.e
any form of glasses.
PERMAGRIT TOOLS
You need a set of Permagrit hand tools. There is an 8 piece scroll and you
also need a 12" or 18" long sanding spline with fine on one side and coarse on
the other. Don't hesitate, they are the best value handtool for a composite
project, and if you buy them and don't like them, I'll pay for them!!!
Flat workbench, and I mean flat. Is your tailplane preskinned, or do you have
to skin it??
I can keep going but I'd like to know about the stage you have before I rabbit
on about glassing techniques etc. so get back to me.
Remember:
Lung Protection.
Skin Protection.
Eye Protection.
Ohaus scales
Acetone
Chinese food cups.......dispose of rather than clean......far less acetone and
if you breathe too much of it, well say goodbye to the delicate mucus linings
in your nose!
Big volume Syriinges
Boxes of disposeable gloves.
A good respirator
IAt 09:35 AM 1/23/2004 +0000, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: andy <europa@brownfamily.org.uk>
>
>Hi ,
>I've just taken delivery of the Europa XS tail kit and I wonder if those who
>have gone through this process before could give me some advice on this part
>of the build...
> . what would you do differently from first time through?
> . are there tools you should have had from the outset?
> . what mistakes did you make :)
>
>I think I'd like to buy a used resin pump - any one in the UK have one for
>sale?
>
>Andy Brown
>builder 588 XS Trigear
>Nairn, Highlands, Scotland
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh fly in |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Anyone going to have their Europa at
Sun-n-Fun? Not sure if I am going to make
Oshkosh, and I'd like to see one up
close and personal, if possible.
-Dj
Message 13
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| Subject: | Finishing and Painting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Hi Ira,
Did you use the primer that came with the Imron or UV Smooth Prime or both?
Troy Maynor
N120EU Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Paint,interior,engine install, wiring.
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
>
> Finish Gel coat is very heavy compare to paint.
> The Europa kit does not come with a finish gel coat.
> Personally, I used superfil and imron(dupont).
>
> Ira N224XS
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | USA Europa Fly-In at Oshkosh, WI |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Ditto this from me. I live near Asheville, North Carolina. If an empty seat
of a Europa passes within a hundred miles of me I would be happy to meet
someone headed North and buy the fuel.
Troy Maynor
N120EU Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Paint,interior,engine install, wiring.
> On this note, if any Europa happened to have an empty seat and
> would like to
> share expenses on the flight to and back with one of those
> unfortunate enough
> to not have their aircraft completed yet, please feel free to let this be
> known.
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Finishing and Painting |
01/24/2004 10:48:01 PM,
Serialize complete at 01/24/2004 10:48:01 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Hi Ira,
Did you use the primer that came with the Imron or UV Smooth Prime or
both?
Troy Maynor
N120EU Monowheel Classic
Left to finish:
Paint,interior,engine install, wiring.
Hi Troy,
We went with the dupont system on top of superfil.
No water-based stuff. Maybe its just anectdotes but I heard too many bad
stories about the water-based products.
I hired out the sanding, filling and painting to Johnny's Autobody in
Lakeland.
They did a spectacular job. I highly recommend them.
And. . . . . they did the whole job in only 3-4 weeks!
Since I commute from New York to Florida to work on the plane,
I could not see myself spend six months sanding.
Ira
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: USA Europa Fly-in Oshkosh 2004 |
01/24/2004 10:57:41 PM,
Serialize complete at 01/24/2004 10:57:41 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Please count me in for a trip to Oshkosh
N224XS
From New York
Ira
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