Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 AM - Re: Drop of the Hat fly in Lands End (William Mills)
2. 05:48 AM - gel coat (Graham Singleton)
3. 07:46 AM - Re: Carb Heat (Peter Davis)
4. 07:47 AM - Re: gel coat (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
5. 08:32 AM - Re: Fuel drain valves (n3eu@comcast.net)
6. 09:18 AM - Re: Fuel drain valves ()
7. 09:47 AM - Re: Carb Heat (Christine and Peter Timm)
8. 09:48 AM - Re: gel coat (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
9. 09:52 AM - Re: Fuel drain valves (Paul McAllister)
10. 10:32 AM - Re: Carb Heat (Peter Davis)
11. 11:55 AM - Re: Carb Heat (Jeff Roberts)
12. 12:54 PM - Antenna help (ScramIt@aol.com)
13. 01:57 PM - Re: Antenna help (John & Amy Eckel)
14. 02:08 PM - Re: Carb Heat (Ami McFadyean)
15. 03:36 PM - AeroElectric Weekend Seminar (Jim Butcher)
16. 04:03 PM - Re: gel coat (Garry Stout)
17. 05:00 PM - Re: gel coat (Kevin Klinefelter)
18. 06:05 PM - Re: gel coat (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
19. 06:43 PM - Re: Antenna help (n3eu@comcast.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Drop of the Hat fly in Lands End |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Hi Bob and All,
Very enjoyable trip to Lands End. 1&1/2 hrs from Abergavenny. CAVOK for
the last 30 miles, but a few showers en route through Somerset and Devon.
Nice grass runways but a bit soggy at the ends. Help yourself refreshments.
Any suggestions for next week? The farmer is intending to let his sheep
graze our field for a week or two, so I might be grounded unless I move to
Newport. Would any of the "Drop of a Hatters" like to volunteer to organise
the next trip?
Best Wishes,
William
(Do not archive)
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Drop of the Hat fly in Lands End
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 23/01/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>I attended the Europa Forum and was very interested in the talk on gel
>coating. It sounds very interesting, but I just wonder why so few Europas
>are gel coated.
Brian
talk to Roger or his friend Tim Dews, they have both painted Europas
conventionally but only one (maybe two) gel coated ones. Also it's heavy.
Finally very expensive and not without reason, it can't be done cheaply
Graham
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
Hi Peter,
Your setup sounds very interesting and efficient. Would you have any photos
available? I too was thinking of using just under cowl air and I am pleased
to hear that the temperature from the heat exchanger is not very high as I
cut this off as soon as I got my replacement stainless system!
Regards,
Peter
mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
viruses.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Christine
and Peter Timm
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carb Heat
--> Europa-List message posted by: Christine and Peter Timm
<cptimm@telus.net>
For what it's worth, I have not put the NACA vent for the cold air plenum
into the top cowling, but have installed such a vent with a 3" stub glassed
into the cowling on the right lower side. From there a 3" scat tube takes
the ram air into a bell-shaped auxiliary airbox bolted on top of the plenum
chamber, which has two bowden-cable operated aluminum flap valves, connected
to each other with a straight rod on the inside opposite each other.
The right side opening has a 3" stub for the Scat Tube for the cold air
whereas the left side flap valve opens up into the inside of the cowling for
carb heat. When one side is open, the other one is closed. I used to have a
Scat Tube from the original heat exchanger on the exhaust leading into the
carb heat side of this box, but found the temperature under the cowling to
be much higher. I cut the heat exchanger off, saving weight and clutter. The
auxiliary air box is made of fiber-glass laid up over a foam plug and has a
flat flange around the open bottom for mounting on top of the plenum box.
Come to think of it, I actually made the lay-up on top of the plenum box
with the filter in place and a 1" wrap-around lip under the front of the
plenum box. I also manufactured a 3" x 2" Y and fit it into the 3" Scat
Tube, to supply cold air to two ball vents in the low center of the
instrument module with a 2" tube.
All these mods. work extremely well in our climate and we have crossed the
Canadian Rockies 6 times, and have flown from Vancouver to the Atlantic and
back, encountering all kinds of conditions.
Peter Timm,U.K. 110
Europa Classic Mono (upgraded to XS standard), 200 hrs, Rotax 912 S
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
Hi all,
Installation - 80hp 912 in 'Classic' airframe with cold air plenum. Has
anyone worked up a carb hot air system taking warm under-cowl air into the
carbs when required at the same time as blocking off the cold air delivery
through the air filter?
I am working on such a system - subjec to PFA approval - but don't want to
re-invent the wheel if someone has already gone down this path.
I know it sounds like I'm reverting to 40s technology but I don't have room
for the Rotax system (only 10mm between rear of air box and firewall) and
anyway, I love a challenge!
Regards,
Peter
mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
viruses.
--
Cheers,
Chris
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 1/25/2004 8:48:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
graham@gflight.f9.co.uk writes:
> >I attended the Europa Forum and was very interested in the talk on gel
> >coating. It sounds very interesting, but I just wonder why so few Europas
> >are gel coated.
>
I've been working with a sailplane refinish guru lately and I've learned a
lot about finishing composites. Maybe I can answer your questions.
The Europa wings and fuselage are gel coated, only just enough to fill the
weave of > the cloth, thus reducing the time of filling and finishing for the
> builder. Many composite sailplane manufacturers are getting away from gel coat
> for one simple reason: it always cracks and crazes with time. It's also prone
> to yellowing making it difficult to color match when doing a repair.
It's easier for a manufacturer to produce a gel coated airplane. For a
typical airplane with foam sandwich construction like the Europa the gel coat is
first sprayed into the mold, then the glass cloth is laid in on top, then the
foam core, then the inner cloth skin. Then, it's vacuum bagged and autoclaved.
The result when removed from the mold is a smooth exterior finish that requires
little buffing and finish work. The finish, though, is short lived.
The trend, at least in the sailplane community, is moving towards 2 part
urethane paints rather than gel coat. These paints are usually applied after the
part is removed from the mold and is more labor intensive because it requires
more filling and finishing after the molding process. Some manufacturers are
experimenting with urethanes that can be sprayed into the mold first like
gelcoat, but I don't know of anybody using this in production yet.
The beauty of urethane over gel coat is it's lighter, it remains flexible and
is easily repaired. It simply does not crack with time like gelcoat. It also
provides excellent UV stability for the underlying cloth and resin. Neither
epoxy resin or glass cloth is UV stable and deteriorates rapidly with exposure
to UV. Cracks in gel coat can allow UV to penetrate to the cloth and resin and
if it's not taken care of can lead to structural failure. If you get a scratch
in urethane you can almost always buff it out. Even if you have to re-spray
an area it's very easy to blend with the existing paint because the color is
far more stable than gelcoat.
We recently had a Nimbus sailplane in the shop for a complete fuselage
refinish. The gel coat was yellowed and cracked all over. It looked terrible. The
gel coat was removed right down to the cloth. We took over 14 lbs of gelcoat off
the fuselage! In some places the gel coat was as much as 3/8" thick! After
the gel coat was removed, non-structural deep surface imperfections were
smoothed out with 3M lightweight cream bondo. (good stuff) Structural imperfections
were repaired with E-glass and resin according to the manufacturers original
laminate schedule. The surface was then built back up with several coats of
color build primer to fill the weave, then block sanded, then the 2 part urethane
was applied. After some block sanding with 1200 to remove "orange peel", it
was buffed to a mirror shine. The finish was awesome! As an experiment we let
some catalyzed paint harden in a paper cup and the result was a substance that
was about the consistency of a hard rubber ball. In fact, it bounced just like
a toy rubber ball. Pretty amazing stuff.
The gist of what I've learned is if you want guaranteed trouble in the
future, gel coat your airplane. If you want a finish that is easy to repair, offers
excellent UV protection, won't ever crack and will look great for many years,
use 2 part urethane paint. The brand we've been using is Sikkens. It ain't
cheap, but neither is refinishing gel coat. From what I've learned from our
resident refinish guru, gelcoat is a thing of the past.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel drain valves |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> I am in the process of picking fuel drain valves. What have other
> builders been using and what is the best location for a tri-gear?
>
> Thanks,
> John A230
Have you perused Mod #33 on Europa Aircraft's web site? It uses SafeAir drain
vales, and you need at least an add'l two-hole, FPA 903A outlet fitting if not
buying the mod.
The pickup tube arrangement in #33 looks ideal for the mono, but on the tri-gear,
arranging the pickup tube to draw from either front or back of tank is a compromise
either way, because it's sensitive to ground slope when taking samples
per my tests. I think that mandates at least a regular-sized gascolator also.
However, my shop's Director of FAA Compliance, Donna Dudat, has advised that
only a separate sump tank rather than gascolator will be close to 100% effective.
So I constructed a 10 oz. fiberglass sump which is undergoing its solvent-resistance
testing, though admittedly conservative.
I have mounted the drains on the floor, under the seats. Due to clearance issues,
rather than Mod #33 parts, I fabricated a mounting arrangement using 90-deg.
brass elbow and hose nipple, balsa wood and fiberglass.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuel drain valves |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
Hi Fred and John
I used the mod 33 drains for my mono but recessed them so they do not
extend out in the airstream. That removes a tiny bit of drag (all drag
is bad) as well as prevents them from being knocked off in any sort of
belly landing.
Best
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
n3eu@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel drain valves
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> I am in the process of picking fuel drain valves. What have other
> builders been using and what is the best location for a tri-gear?
>
> Thanks,
> John A230
Have you perused Mod #33 on Europa Aircraft's web site? It uses SafeAir
drain vales, and you need at least an add'l two-hole, FPA 903A outlet
fitting if not buying the mod.
The pickup tube arrangement in #33 looks ideal for the mono, but on the
tri-gear, arranging the pickup tube to draw from either front or back of
tank is a compromise either way, because it's sensitive to ground slope
when taking samples per my tests. I think that mandates at least a
regular-sized gascolator also. However, my shop's Director of FAA
Compliance, Donna Dudat, has advised that only a separate sump tank
rather than gascolator will be close to 100% effective. So I constructed
a 10 oz. fiberglass sump which is undergoing its solvent-resistance
testing, though admittedly conservative.
I have mounted the drains on the floor, under the seats. Due to
clearance issues, rather than Mod #33 parts, I fabricated a mounting
arrangement using 90-deg. brass elbow and hose nipple, balsa wood and
fiberglass.
Regards,
Fred F.
==
==
==
==
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Christine and Peter Timm <cptimm@telus.net>
Hi Peter:
Will get the pictures taken later today but have to get to a meeting first.
cheers,
Peter
on 04/1/25 7:45 AM, Peter Davis at pm.davis@ntlworld.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> Your setup sounds very interesting and efficient. Would you have any photos
> available? I too was thinking of using just under cowl air and I am pleased
> to hear that the temperature from the heat exchanger is not very high as I
> cut this off as soon as I got my replacement stainless system!
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
> mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
>
> This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
> viruses.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Christine
> and Peter Timm
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carb Heat
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Christine and Peter Timm
> <cptimm@telus.net>
>
> For what it's worth, I have not put the NACA vent for the cold air plenum
> into the top cowling, but have installed such a vent with a 3" stub glassed
> into the cowling on the right lower side. From there a 3" scat tube takes
> the ram air into a bell-shaped auxiliary airbox bolted on top of the plenum
> chamber, which has two bowden-cable operated aluminum flap valves, connected
> to each other with a straight rod on the inside opposite each other.
>
> The right side opening has a 3" stub for the Scat Tube for the cold air
> whereas the left side flap valve opens up into the inside of the cowling for
> carb heat. When one side is open, the other one is closed. I used to have a
> Scat Tube from the original heat exchanger on the exhaust leading into the
> carb heat side of this box, but found the temperature under the cowling to
> be much higher. I cut the heat exchanger off, saving weight and clutter. The
> auxiliary air box is made of fiber-glass laid up over a foam plug and has a
> flat flange around the open bottom for mounting on top of the plenum box.
> Come to think of it, I actually made the lay-up on top of the plenum box
> with the filter in place and a 1" wrap-around lip under the front of the
> plenum box. I also manufactured a 3" x 2" Y and fit it into the 3" Scat
> Tube, to supply cold air to two ball vents in the low center of the
> instrument module with a 2" tube.
>
> All these mods. work extremely well in our climate and we have crossed the
> Canadian Rockies 6 times, and have flown from Vancouver to the Atlantic and
> back, encountering all kinds of conditions.
>
> Peter Timm,U.K. 110
>
> Europa Classic Mono (upgraded to XS standard), 200 hrs, Rotax 912 S
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Installation - 80hp 912 in 'Classic' airframe with cold air plenum. Has
> anyone worked up a carb hot air system taking warm under-cowl air into the
> carbs when required at the same time as blocking off the cold air delivery
> through the air filter?
>
> I am working on such a system - subjec to PFA approval - but don't want to
> re-invent the wheel if someone has already gone down this path.
>
> I know it sounds like I'm reverting to 40s technology but I don't have room
> for the Rotax system (only 10mm between rear of air box and firewall) and
> anyway, I love a challenge!
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
> mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
>
> This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
> viruses.
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
If the Europa wings are already gelcoated, how does this effect the
application of the two part urethane paints? What prep work would need to be done
to
the quick build kits from Europa?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Working on tailwheel and baggage
bay. Trial fit of top and both wings. The wings fit!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel drain valves |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
John,
I used the drain valves from the factory mod. I have mine fitted beside
each other next to the gascolator so I only have one place to go fro me
preflight checks. I have a few photos on my WEB site
http://europa363.versadev.com/ under January 01.
Cheers, Paul
> I am in the process of picking fuel drain valves. What have other
> builders been using and what is the best location for a tri-gear?
>
> Thanks,
> John A230
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
Hi Peter,
Many thanks in anticipation. Remember to send it direct to me at my address
below as I believe the forum strips out any attachments.
Thanks,
Peter
mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
viruses.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Christine
and Peter Timm
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carb Heat
--> Europa-List message posted by: Christine and Peter Timm
<cptimm@telus.net>
Hi Peter:
Will get the pictures taken later today but have to get to a meeting first.
cheers,
Peter
on 04/1/25 7:45 AM, Peter Davis at pm.davis@ntlworld.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> Your setup sounds very interesting and efficient. Would you have any
photos
> available? I too was thinking of using just under cowl air and I am
pleased
> to hear that the temperature from the heat exchanger is not very high as I
> cut this off as soon as I got my replacement stainless system!
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
> mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
>
> This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
> viruses.
>
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
on 1/25/04 12:45 PM, Christine and Peter Timm at cptimm@telus.net wrote:
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> For what it's worth, I have not put the NACA vent for the cold air plenum
>> into the top cowling, but have installed such a vent with a 3" stub glassed
>> into the cowling on the right lower side. From there a 3" scat tube takes
>> the ram air into a bell-shaped auxiliary airbox bolted on top of the plenum
>> chamber, which has two bowden-cable operated aluminum flap valves, connected
>> to each other with a straight rod on the inside opposite each other.
Hi Peter,
Since youre taking pictures, any chance I could get you to e-mail me some?
After reading about your setup, I have been thinking of closing the top NACA
and using the lower starboard NACA for carb air with the under cowl air in
the same way as you described. I lowered my oil cooler so I shouldnt need
the extra air under the cowl to keep the 912S cool. Not sure how much carb
heat a severe clear VFR pilot will need, but you never know.
Thanks,
Jeff A258
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
I've had it with these antennas. I don't know much about them and every time
I tell someone how they're going in, I get, "whatever you do don't do that".
We don't have that much room and everything is a compromise. The nav and com
wires, (RG 400) run down the port side. The transponder wire runs down the
starboard side with the battery wires. The Nav has one tip running under the
battery wires. Is that going to mess up reception? The com is mounted to the port
side wall. It's curved, I know, but Bob Archer said that was ok. Look at the
pictures and let me know if I've done something horribly wrong. Otherwise, they
get glued tomorrow.
http://idisk.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Public/bob1.jpg
http://idisk.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Public/bob2.jpg
Thanks,
SteveD.
P.S. It's a radish... Don't ask....
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna help |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Steve,
You are really making progress...great.
The only help I can give you is that I asked Jim Brown
about antennas while in Lakeland and he told me he asked
Bob Archer what to do. He did it what Bob said and it all works.
Remember, it is all black magic.
Hope this helps.
John, A230
----- Original Message -----
From: <ScramIt@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Antenna help
> --> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>
> I've had it with these antennas. I don't know much about them and every
time
> I tell someone how they're going in, I get, "whatever you do don't do
that".
> We don't have that much room and everything is a compromise. The nav and
com
> wires, (RG 400) run down the port side. The transponder wire runs down the
> starboard side with the battery wires. The Nav has one tip running under
the
> battery wires. Is that going to mess up reception? The com is mounted to
the port
> side wall. It's curved, I know, but Bob Archer said that was ok. Look at
the
> pictures and let me know if I've done something horribly wrong. Otherwise,
they
> get glued tomorrow.
>
> http://idisk.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Public/bob1.jpg
> http://idisk.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Public/bob2.jpg
>
> Thanks,
> SteveD.
> P.S. It's a radish... Don't ask....
>
>
Message 14
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
I'd be interested in any info you have on air temperatures generated by the
exhaust heat exchanger.
My own undercowl air temp runs at 45 to 50 deg. C. Although I'm now
confident that the carbs. won't ice under this condition, it may be a
different matter using this air to try to de-ice carbs that have already
iced (as a consequence of using outside air).
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Carb Heat
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> Many thanks in anticipation. Remember to send it direct to me at my
address
> below as I believe the forum strips out any attachments.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter
>
> mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
>
> This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
> viruses.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Christine
> and Peter Timm
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carb Heat
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Christine and Peter Timm
> <cptimm@telus.net>
>
> Hi Peter:
>
> Will get the pictures taken later today but have to get to a meeting
first.
>
> cheers,
> Peter
>
> on 04/1/25 7:45 AM, Peter Davis at pm.davis@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Davis" <pm.davis@ntlworld.com>
> >
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Your setup sounds very interesting and efficient. Would you have any
> photos
> > available? I too was thinking of using just under cowl air and I am
> pleased
> > to hear that the temperature from the heat exchanger is not very high as
I
> > cut this off as soon as I got my replacement stainless system!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > mailto:pm.davis@ntlworld.com
> >
> > This message has been scanned by Norton Internet Security for all known
> > viruses.
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | AeroElectric Weekend Seminar |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
Just to let everyone know, EAA Chapter 221 is hosting Bob Nuckoll's seminar in Kalamazoo, MI on March 20 & 21. Check the AeroElectric website for details. www.aeroelectric.com/seminars
Thanks
Jim Butcher
Europa A185
Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry Stout" <garrys@tampabay.rr.com>
If I'm not mistaken, boat builders have been using gel coat on their boats
for 30 years or more. I dare say those boats are exposed to more direct
sunlight and harsher conditions than any Europa will ever be subjected
to.........and those boats hold up just fine. My own MasterCraft ski boat
is now 16 years old and the white hull is as pretty, smooth, glossy and
white as the day it left the factory. All I do is polish and wax it once
every year or two. How come my boat isn't cracking, crazing and yellowing?
Garry Stout
914 trigear, 350 hours flying
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: gel coat
Many composite sailplane manufacturers are getting away from gel coat
> > for one simple reason: it always cracks and crazes with time. It's also
prone
> > to yellowing making it difficult to color match when doing a repair.
Message 17
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
Out here on the East side of the Sierra we fly high in gliders. Wave soaring
in gliders is very popular in the Minden NV area, and with an agreement with
the FAA entering class A airspace is common in winter wave soaring. Flights
above 30,000' are not uncommon. It is common for those gliders to get
cracking/crazing in the gellcoat finish.
Dont know nothin bout boats, not much water here.
It is common to refinish gellcoated gliders with paint.
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Garry Stout
Subject: Re: Europa-List: gel coat
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry Stout" <garrys@tampabay.rr.com>
If I'm not mistaken, boat builders have been using gel coat on their boats
for 30 years or more. I dare say those boats are exposed to more direct
sunlight and harsher conditions than any Europa will ever be subjected
to.........and those boats hold up just fine. My own MasterCraft ski boat
is now 16 years old and the white hull is as pretty, smooth, glossy and
white as the day it left the factory. All I do is polish and wax it once
every year or two. How come my boat isn't cracking, crazing and yellowing?
Garry Stout
914 trigear, 350 hours flying
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: gel coat
Many composite sailplane manufacturers are getting away from gel coat
> > for one simple reason: it always cracks and crazes with time. It's also
prone
> > to yellowing making it difficult to color match when doing a repair.
Message 18
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--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 1/25/2004 7:04:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
garrys@tampabay.rr.com writes:
> How come my boat isn't cracking, crazing and yellowing?
Simple. Because you boats skin is very thick compared to the skin of an
airplane and doesn't flex near as much. The hull is facing down, not up, so the
UV
exposure is minimal. Go to any gliderport and look at any 10 year old or older
gel coat finished airplane, particuarly around the tail wheel, corners of the
canopy and edges of the gear doors and you will see what I'm talking about. I
have yet to see one that doesn't have cracks and I see lots of gliders being
that we run a gliderport here in Tennessee. You won't notice the yellowing
unless you put it beside a new airplane, but when you do it's obvious.
And, you're right. Gel coat is 30+ year old technology. 30+ year old
technology that has been surpassed by a better product.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna help |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
Steve -
Especially the xponder antenna cable should not be run in bundles containing other
wires running 14V power; avoid on VHF. Installing shops and even factories
do it all the time and often get away with it, but I'd still separate them.
COM may affect NAV only on xmit if their coax bundled together, but I'd still
separate them too. Takes only an inch or two.
The tips of a dipole are the worst place to have metal anything. It should be
separated by 24" as best you can. Although in a sense the tips do no work at
all, the length of the element is what tunes it, and nearby metal detunes it.
Also, the distance you have between nav and comm may be evidenced on the nav
display when you key the mike.
Energy radiates at 90-deg. to an antenna element, so curvature affects its radiation
pattern. I think what Archer is saying is that no practical antenna installation
has produced a perfect radiating pattern from Marconi's day forward,
so a little added curvature is not too bad.
This will sound like the other advice you got, but the NAV antenna on the bottom
may be noticeably worse than mounted on the top of the fuse, due to proximity
of the pitch tube and rudder cables, aggravated by its curvature. VHF nav has
the annoying problem where the avionics mfr need only provide enough sensitivity
to meet FAA requirements for "service volume," relating to reception distance.
Else there's potential for interference from VORs of the same frequency
if too sensitive. Design is then further premised upon an antenna installation
of typical adequacy. I'd either install it so it can be easily moved later
if need be, or just plan to affix it later to the top. Needs only blobs of
RTV if Archer permits and duct tape to hold it while curing, with access through
the "D" panel.
Regards,
Fred F.
> I've had it with these antennas. I don't know much about them and
> every time I tell someone how they're going in, I get, "whatever
> you do don't do that"....nav and com wires, (RG 400) run down the port
> side. The transponder wire runs down the starboard side with the
> battery wires. The Nav has one tip running under the battery wires.
> Is that going to mess up reception? The com is mounted to the port
> side wall. It's curved, I know, but Bob Archer said that was ok.
> http://idisk.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Public/bob1.jpg
> http://idisk.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Public/bob2.jpg
>
> Thanks,
> SteveD.
> P.S. It's a radish... Don't ask....
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