Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:56 AM - gel coat (Graham Singleton)
2. 01:56 AM - gel coat (Graham Singleton)
3. 05:20 AM - Re: gel coat (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
4. 06:13 AM - Re: gel coat (Brian Davies)
5. 06:31 AM - Re: Gas tank and sight glass vents (Fergus Kyle)
6. 06:31 AM - Re: Antenna help (Fergus Kyle)
7. 06:57 AM - Re: Antenna help (rlborger)
8. 07:45 AM - Re: Lots of words for a New Builder.................... (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
9. 03:07 PM - Re: gel coat (Tony Krzyzewski)
10. 03:19 PM - Re: Antenna help (Paul McAllister)
11. 03:31 PM - Re: Gas tank and sight glass vents (James Nelson)
12. 03:31 PM - Re: Fuel drain valves (James Nelson)
13. 03:31 PM - Re: Oshkosh fly in (James Nelson)
14. 05:51 PM - Re: Oshkosh fly in (Dj Merrill)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 25/01/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>My own MasterCraft ski boat
>is now 16 years old and the white hull is as pretty, smooth, glossy and
>white as the day it left the factory. All I do is polish and wax it once
>every year or two. How come my boat isn't cracking, crazing and yellowing?
>
>Garry Stout
your boat will be polyester, with polyester gel.
Gel doesn't bond well to epoxy and there are often traces of unreacted
resin which might affect the gel.
Graham
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 25/01/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>If the Europa wings are already gelcoated, how does this effect the
>application of the two part urethane paints? What prep work would need to
>be done
>to
>the quick build kits from Europa?
>
>
>Mike Duane A207
Mike
the Europa gel is epoxy, not polyester as most sailplane gel is. Urethane
will stick fine.
I use epoxy primer (SP Systems Hibuild 320 ) then acrylic/urethane paint.
It's easier to buff or refinish than straight urethane. .
Graham
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 1/26/2004 4:56:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
graham@gflight.f9.co.uk writes:
> I use epoxy primer (SP Systems Hibuild 320 ) then acrylic/urethane paint.
> It's easier to buff or refinish than straight urethane. .
> Graham
Graham,
Have you ever used or are you familiar with Sikkens urethane? I'm still on a
serious learning curve here, but what I've been shown in recent months in my
shop with 1 complete refinish of completely failed gel coat on a Nimbus C
fuselage and 3 repairs of failing gel coat on 2, ASW 27's and an LS-8 with the
Sikkens product is nothing short of amazing. We were using Autoclor colorbuild
primer. I couldn't imagine any paint being easier to work with or producing
better results. Like I said, though, it ain't cheap, but if there's something out
there that works as well as Sikkens with out the price shock of $500/gallon I'd
be interested in knowing about it.
On a somewhat related side note, we also reskinned and painted an aileron on
a Schweizer 1-34 with Aerothane. That stuff is at the opposite end of the
spectrum as far as ease of use and finish.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
Many thanks to everyone for the comments regarding finishing and painting.
30 years of experience in 30 minutes of e mails!
Brian Davies kit 454
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: gel coat
> --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/25/2004 8:48:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> graham@gflight.f9.co.uk writes:
>
> > >I attended the Europa Forum and was very interested in the talk on gel
> > >coating. It sounds very interesting, but I just wonder why so few
Europas
> > >are gel coated.
> >
> I've been working with a sailplane refinish guru lately and I've learned a
> lot about finishing composites. Maybe I can answer your questions.
>
> The Europa wings and fuselage are gel coated, only just enough to fill the
> weave of > the cloth, thus reducing the time of filling and finishing for
the
> > builder. Many composite sailplane manufacturers are getting away from
gel coat
> > for one simple reason: it always cracks and crazes with time. It's also
prone
> > to yellowing making it difficult to color match when doing a repair.
>
> It's easier for a manufacturer to produce a gel coated airplane. For a
> typical airplane with foam sandwich construction like the Europa the gel
coat is
> first sprayed into the mold, then the glass cloth is laid in on top, then
the
> foam core, then the inner cloth skin. Then, it's vacuum bagged and
autoclaved.
> The result when removed from the mold is a smooth exterior finish that
requires
> little buffing and finish work. The finish, though, is short lived.
>
> The trend, at least in the sailplane community, is moving towards 2 part
> urethane paints rather than gel coat. These paints are usually applied
after the
> part is removed from the mold and is more labor intensive because it
requires
> more filling and finishing after the molding process. Some manufacturers
are
> experimenting with urethanes that can be sprayed into the mold first like
> gelcoat, but I don't know of anybody using this in production yet.
>
> The beauty of urethane over gel coat is it's lighter, it remains flexible
and
> is easily repaired. It simply does not crack with time like gelcoat. It
also
> provides excellent UV stability for the underlying cloth and resin.
Neither
> epoxy resin or glass cloth is UV stable and deteriorates rapidly with
exposure
> to UV. Cracks in gel coat can allow UV to penetrate to the cloth and resin
and
> if it's not taken care of can lead to structural failure. If you get a
scratch
> in urethane you can almost always buff it out. Even if you have to
re-spray
> an area it's very easy to blend with the existing paint because the color
is
> far more stable than gelcoat.
>
> We recently had a Nimbus sailplane in the shop for a complete fuselage
> refinish. The gel coat was yellowed and cracked all over. It looked
terrible. The
> gel coat was removed right down to the cloth. We took over 14 lbs of
gelcoat off
> the fuselage! In some places the gel coat was as much as 3/8" thick! After
> the gel coat was removed, non-structural deep surface imperfections were
> smoothed out with 3M lightweight cream bondo. (good stuff) Structural
imperfections
> were repaired with E-glass and resin according to the manufacturers
original
> laminate schedule. The surface was then built back up with several coats
of
> color build primer to fill the weave, then block sanded, then the 2 part
urethane
> was applied. After some block sanding with 1200 to remove "orange peel",
it
> was buffed to a mirror shine. The finish was awesome! As an experiment we
let
> some catalyzed paint harden in a paper cup and the result was a substance
that
> was about the consistency of a hard rubber ball. In fact, it bounced just
like
> a toy rubber ball. Pretty amazing stuff.
>
> The gist of what I've learned is if you want guaranteed trouble in the
> future, gel coat your airplane. If you want a finish that is easy to
repair, offers
> excellent UV protection, won't ever crack and will look great for many
years,
> use 2 part urethane paint. The brand we've been using is Sikkens. It ain't
> cheap, but neither is refinishing gel coat. From what I've learned from
our
> resident refinish guru, gelcoat is a thing of the past.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Gas tank and sight glass vents |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
| *The Canadian geese problem is so bad here that the airport manager leaves
the snow blade on the truck year-round, to plow the runways!
|
| Regards,
| Fred F.
Fred, (and onlookers)
Now they may be Canadian, because they come here for refuge, but we
don't want to tarnish the escutcheon of Canada Geese. All geese are not
Canada geese, and not all offending geese are Canadian.
If it's any comfort, Canada Geese are fouling the runways in Tibet
AND New Zealand, so you are not alone.
Ferg
914 mono
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Antenna help |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: <n3eu@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Antenna help
| --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
|
| Steve -
|
| Especially the xponder antenna cable should not be run in bundles
containing other wires running 14V power; avoid on VHF. Installing shops
and even factories do it all the time and often get away with it, but I'd
still separate them. COM may affect NAV only on xmit if their coax bundled
together, but I'd still separate them too. Takes only an inch or two.
|
| The tips of a dipole are the worst place to have metal anything. It
should be separated by 24" as best you can. Although in a sense the tips do
no work at all, the length of the element is what tunes it, and nearby metal
detunes it. Also, the distance you have between nav and comm may be
evidenced on the nav display when you key the mike.
|
| Energy radiates at 90-deg. to an antenna element, so curvature affects its
radiation pattern. I think what Archer is saying is that no practical
antenna installation has produced a perfect radiating pattern from Marconi's
day forward, so a little added curvature is not too bad.
|
| This will sound like the other advice you got, but the NAV antenna on the
bottom may be noticeably worse than mounted on the top of the fuse, due to
proximity of the pitch tube and rudder cables, aggravated by its curvature.
VHF nav has the annoying problem where the avionics mfr need only provide
enough sensitivity to meet FAA requirements for "service volume," relating
to reception distance. Else there's potential for interference from VORs of
the same frequency if too sensitive. Design is then further premised upon
an antenna installation of typical adequacy. I'd either install it so it
can be easily moved later if need be, or just plan to affix it later to the
top. Needs only blobs of RTV if Archer permits and duct tape to hold it
while curing, with access through the "D" panel.
|
| Regards,
| Fred F.
Steve,
We hear your anguish. Antenna tech is NOT black magic although
when it's unresearched it may seem so. If it's any consolation I agree with
Fred. Nothing in this small size aircraft will be perfect. If you use a
dipole and have to be near wires, it's best if the wires are perpendicular
to the dipole and passing through the point where the cable attaches.
There's more space on top than on bottom - smaller antennas can
be closer to others than large ones - so start with the biggest one and work
down in size. I agree that you should not run a transmit cable alongside a
similar receive cable (VHF/VOR or VHF/Transponder). Worst case - if it don't
work don't sweat it. Chances are you can reposition it later, although not
so easy. Some of this pooh can be used later - VOR ain't necessary to test
the aircraft, etc.
Good luck!
Ferg
A064 914 mono
|
| > I've had it with these antennas. I don't know much about them and
| > every time I tell someone how they're going in, I get, "whatever
| > you do don't do that"....nav and com wires, (RG 400) run down the port
| > side. The transponder wire runs down the starboard side with the
| > battery wires. The Nav has one tip running under the battery wires.
| > Is that going to mess up reception? The com is mounted to the port
| > side wall. It's curved, I know, but Bob Archer said that was ok.
|
| > http://idisk.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Public/bob1.jpg
| > http://idisk.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Public/bob2.jpg
| >
| > Thanks,
| > SteveD.
| > P.S. It's a radish... Don't ask....
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Antenna help |
--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
Steve,
For what it's worth, I planned to put my Archer com antenna in the
vertical stab. It was also approved by Bob Archer. I'd be glad to
forward my communications with Mr.Archer if you think that will help.
Seeing how your Nav antenna fits in the belly of your a/c, I may go
back to my original plan and get a second com antenna. Put one in the
top, forward and one like yours, more aft in the belly. I think that
will provide the necessary 3' separation.
Good building and better flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, 914, Airmaster C/S
(50%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, working rudder system.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Lots of words for a New Builder.................... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 1/24/2004 5:40:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au writes:
> SYRINGES
> Oh, back to the resin/hardener. The best answer is large volume syringes.
>
> Tony,
>
> In lieu of syringes, why not just use tabletop ketchup bottles? They're
> cheaper. They have caps to keep the air out. You can dispense as little as one
> drop at a time if you want and you don't have to pour unused resin and hardener
> back into the can at the end of a session because they store resin and
> hardener just as well as the can it came in. And there's no cleaning them after
> use, just refill as needed.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>> Have you ever used or are you familiar with Sikkens urethane? I'm
still on a
serious learning curve here, but what I've been shown in recent months
in my
shop with 1 complete refinish of completely failed gel coat on a Nimbus
C
fuselage and 3 repairs of failing gel coat on 2, ASW 27's and an LS-8
with the
Sikkens product is nothing short of amazing.
ZK-TSK is painted with Sikkens Urethane and it looks marvelous. Even
better is the fact that is that it can be touched up at anytime without
having to paint an entire surface.
Tony
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Antenna help |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Steve,
I put my Bob Archer com antenna in the vertical fin. It was a tight fit but
I managed. I have since found out that he offers a model where the top &
bottoms of the "E" swing which would have made the exercise much easier.
I got an SWR of better than 1.5:1 over the entire range. My aircraft is in
the basement of an aluminum clad house but I can pick up aircraft and the
local airport 4 miles away so I am pretty confident it will work well.
Paul
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Gas tank and sight glass vents |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Hi John,
I ran my vent line from the top of the tank to the top of the
fuel filler moulding. I changed the vent line from the dinky 1/4" line
to a 1/2" line. This lets the top of the tank fill rapidly by being
able to vent the air out to make room for the fuel. From the top of the
fuel filler moulding I ran a 1/4" line up to the top of the fuselage and
did a 180 degree turn and ran it back down along side of the fuel
moulding and into the area under the baggage compartment. From there I
ran it over to a point just behind the flap unit. I reduxed a stainless
steel tube (that Europa provides for venting) that I bent to a 90 degree
angle and faced it forward. I did the back drilling to protect it from a
bug getting stuck in the front. By placing it behind the flap hinge unit
on the bottom you get a natural blocking of critters before they get to
the vent line. Keeps all possible gas dribbles out the bottom.
Actually with this system, I get no gas out the bottom as the top of the
fuel moulding provides the vacuum break necessary.
I broke down and bought Tru-Trak's smallest wing leveler(~$1700).
I am installing it as our little fighter needs to keep the right side up
while I'm looking at maps and GPS's while navigating around the area. The
aircraft is very sensitive and if I let it alone, it will head to where
the green things get bigger. It trims out nicely but gusts of wind ect
will disturb the equilibrium and I'll drift off and drop a wing. The
leveler will track a gps heading I'm told so if its there, I guess I'll
hook it up. I really need only the leveling function.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:44:56 EST TELEDYNMCS@aol.com writes:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
> Greetings all,
>
> Doing some planning of the vent lines for the gas tank and sight
> glass and I
> was wondering if anyone has put the vents on the bottom of the
> airplane? I
> seem to remember somebody at Flight Crafters doing this, but I can't
> remember
> exactly how it was done. It seems reasonable to have the fuel vents
> on the bottom
> so that in the event they dribble some fuel it won't go all over the
>
> airplane. I would assume that you would have to route the vent lines
> up and over the
> fuel filler, then back down to the belly where they would exit.
>
> Comments? Maybe Bob Berrube can chime in on this one? (with an
> update on the
> flight testing of his conventional gear Europa?)
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel drain valves |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Hi John,
Put the drain valves both on the same side as the fuel filler.
Place them just under the filler so you can drain both sides of the tank
with out moving. I placed them in line so the front one drained the
starboard side and the rear one drained the port side of the tank. Also
that minimizes drag as the front one creates the disturbance and the back
one just rides along and not creating a new drag point. That way fuel
sampling is easier and anything that makes it easier, gets done. The
harder you make it, the greater the possibility of not doing it..
Murphy will get you ....
Jim Nelson
N15JN
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:12:48 -0500 "John & Amy Eckel"
<eckel1@comcast.net> writes:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel"
> <eckel1@comcast.net>
>
> Hello,
> I am in the process of picking fuel drain valves. What have other
> builders been using and what is the best location for a tri-gear?
>
> Thanks,
> John A230
> working on cockpit module
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh fly in |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
DJ,
Come to the Sun-N-Fun in April. Flight Crafters is only 30
minutes away and they can show you the aircraft up front and personal.
I live in the area and you are welcome to come to St Petersburg and see
mine. It is good to see them that way and educated choices are best
made that way. The Europa is a very nice airplane and is excellent in
the ways it was designed for. Actually, Bob Berube at Flight Crafters
will "show you around" most any time if you just call and make
arrangements. Doing it before SNF is better as there is always much to
be finished and time gets to be scarce then. Come here in the winter
when you can use the "temperature" break.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:01:36 -0500 Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
writes:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
> <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
> Anyone going to have their Europa at
> Sun-n-Fun? Not sure if I am going to make
> Oshkosh, and I'd like to see one up
> close and personal, if possible.
>
> -Dj
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh fly in |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
James Nelson wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
>
> DJ,
> Come to the Sun-N-Fun in April. Flight Crafters is only 30
> minutes away and they can show you the aircraft up front and personal.
> I live in the area and you are welcome to come to St Petersburg and see
> mine. It is good to see them that way and educated choices are best
> made that way. The Europa is a very nice airplane and is excellent in
> the ways it was designed for. Actually, Bob Berube at Flight Crafters
> will "show you around" most any time if you just call and make
> arrangements. Doing it before SNF is better as there is always much to
> be finished and time gets to be scarce then. Come here in the winter
> when you can use the "temperature" break.
>
> Jim Nelson
> N15JN
Sweet, thanks!
If I can't get down before, I'll try to
work out something at Sun-n-Fun.
-Dj
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|