Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:30 AM - Re: Wing Spar Pins (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
2. 01:09 AM - Re: Dehumidifier (nigel charles)
3. 04:13 AM - GPS Driven Autopilots (Tony Renshaw)
4. 04:32 AM - Re: Chamfering access panels (Tony Renshaw)
5. 05:18 AM - Ground plane size for GPS antenna (Paul McAllister)
6. 05:20 AM - Re: Chamfering access panels (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
7. 06:36 AM - Re: Ground plane size for GPS antenna ()
8. 07:19 AM - Wing Spar Pins (Graham Singleton)
9. 07:32 AM - Re: Ground plane size for GPS antenna (n3eu@comcast.net)
10. 07:52 AM - Re: Wing Spar Pins (ivor.phillips)
11. 08:03 AM - Re: Wing Spar Pins (ivor.phillips)
12. 08:54 AM - Re: Dehumidifier (Davidghillam@aol.com)
13. 10:00 AM - Wing spar pins ? (John & Paddy Wigney)
14. 10:24 AM - Re: Wing spar pins ? (Peter Zutrauen)
15. 10:33 AM - Wing spar pins (Fergus Kyle)
16. 11:54 AM - Re: Wing spar pins ? (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
17. 11:59 AM - Re: Wing spar pins (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
18. 12:56 PM - Re: GPS Driven Autopilots (Ami McFadyean)
19. 03:44 PM - Choosing an EFIS (Bill and Sue)
20. 04:51 PM - GPS Autopilots (Tony Renshaw)
21. 07:24 PM - Re: Wing spar pins (Fergus Kyle)
22. 10:47 PM - Re: Wing spar pins (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Pins |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Thanks to all for the input......cut the threads...better yet replace with
another PIP pin. It was a long night and I didn't read ahead after inserting the
wings for the second time.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Working on tailwheel and baggage
bay. Trial fit of top and both wings. The wings fit! Conventional gear soon.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Dehumidifier |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi David
>From memory, I think it cost over 100GBP. Any sensible offer accepted.
Located Gloucestershire/Wiltshire border.<
I will offer 50 and can collect.
Regards
Nigel Charles
Message 3
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| Subject: | GPS Driven Autopilots |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Gidday,
I have heard of at least one builder who is using the Trio autopilot. I
haven't diligantly studied the specs yet, but it is cheaper than the
others, which isn't always the best place to start. However, I'd be
interested in knowing whether anyone has an opinion on the use of these GPS
driven autopilots.
http://www.trioavionics.com/Features.htm#Solid_State_Gyro
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger (possibly convertible)
Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected
Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed
Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted
Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided)
Instrumentation: Undecided
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Chamfering access panels |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Dan,
The best way is to use a razor knife and simply perforate the skin on the
inside. There are many ways to make these access panels, but if you want to
remove an internal skin that is over a foam core, well just approximate the
angle and perforate ensuring you don't push too hard and compromise the
outer skin. Once you have a starting point, it is easy enough to join up
the perforations. I reckon the best way it to take back 1/2" or so, and
then put back a small flox fillet that will bond it all together, plus give
the cloth on the inside a nice coutour that is not too angular that it
compromises strength.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
At 08:41 PM 2/8/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" <danbish@norwalktucson.com>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I was wondering if there's a simple tool & technique to chamfering the edges
>around the access panels around the tailplane. Page 23-3 of the manual says
>to chamfer back 10-15mm at about 45 degrees which looks doable, just
>wondering what's the best tool to use to do this without going all the way
>through the skin. Thanks,
>
>Dan
>A144
>Tucson, AZ
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Ground plane size for GPS antenna |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
I am installing a GX60 and I seem to recall a minimum size requirement for the
GPS antenna, however upon scouring the installation manual I can't find a reference
to this. Has anyone out there had experience with installing approach certified
GPS unit and have any recommendations ?
Thanks Paul
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Chamfering access panels |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 2/9/2004 7:33:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au writes:
> I was wondering if there's a simple tool &technique to chamfering the edges
>
> >around the access panels around the tailplane. Page 23-3 of the manual says
>
> >to chamfer back 10-15mm at about 45 degrees which looks doable, just
> >wondering what's the best tool to use to do this without going all the way
> >through the skin. Thanks,
> >
> >Dan
> >A144
> >Tucson, AZ
Hi Dan,
Dremel makes a router attachment for their motor tool. I've found that it
works great to remove outter skin and foam, but leave the inside skin intact. I
use a 1/4" deburring bit with a flat end so it won't cut through the inner
glass. You set the depth to just under the thickness of the foam. After you remove
the foam with the Dremel chamfering is easy with 60 grit on a block. This
also works great if you're building a trigear and have to put in the hardpoint
for the flap actuator.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 7
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| Subject: | Ground plane size for GPS antenna |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
Hi Paul
A cd works great! (AOL is good for something!)
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
McAllister
Subject: Europa-List: Ground plane size for GPS antenna
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
I am installing a GX60 and I seem to recall a minimum size requirement
for the GPS antenna, however upon scouring the installation manual I
can't find a reference to this. Has anyone out there had experience
with installing approach certified GPS unit and have any recommendations
?
Thanks Paul
==
==
==
==
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 08/02/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
>
>Mike
>
>I think you missed a step. On both Europas I have built, I cut the threads
>off that bolt. It still may be a tight fit. Some people do replace the
>starboard bolt for a PIP pin. I don't think it matters much. With a PIP
>pin you will not have to build the "keeper" for the allen wrench end of the
>bolt. That might be worth it.
>
>Cliff Shaw
You will find that if the 3 bushes in the spar and the CM are exactly in
line, and concentric, the bolt will be a bit sloppy. Lining up the bushes
is not easy but worth the effort. I used a slightly (very slightly)
oversize expanding reamer to align them
<<I am not sure why Europa does not supply a pip pin for the stbd side.>>
Cost, they are a heck of a price and it's already difficult enough to keep
the cost reasonable.
Kevin
Graham
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Ground plane size for GPS antenna |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> I am installing a GX60 and I seem to recall a minimum size requirement for
> the GPS antenna, however upon scouring the installation manual I can't
> find a reference to this. Has anyone out there had experience with
> installing approach certified GPS unit and have any recommendations ?
>
> Thanks Paul
My Apollo GX-65 manual is silent re ground plane also, likely due to its being
largely irrelevant for airborne use. The circularly polarized antenna inside
is of unique design, nothing like a 1/4-wave whip antenna which needs a ground
plane for sure. It's thus designed to work in conjunction with the metal base
of the antenna package they give you.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Pins |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
> Cost, they are a heck of a price and it's already difficult enough to keep
> the cost reasonable.
Just brought one for the starboard side yesterday, 52 plus delivery,(ouch)
Ivor Phillips
486XS
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Pins |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
52 pounds that is!!
>
> Just brought one for the starboard side yesterday, 52 plus delivery,(ouch)
>
> Ivor Phillips
> 486XS
> >
do not achive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Dehumidifier |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Davidghillam@aol.com
Hi Nigel,
Thanks for your offer. Unfortunately, I received an offer (also for =A350)
from someone else before your e-mail arrived, which I have accepted.
Arrangements are in hand for someone to collect on the buyer's behalf, but if
these fall through, I will come back to you.
Sorry about that.
David
Message 13
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| Subject: | Wing spar pins ? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney@worldnet.att.net>
<<<<<<Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good day All,
Question - for those that are flying or are past the wing angle of incidence
setup stage.... the two wing spar pins that hold the wings together to the
CM......one is a nice smooth PIP pin while the other is a threaded bolt with an
Allen wrench welded to it. Have people changed this threaded bolt to the PIP
pin, or some other more suitable pin? I have set the wings in place twice now
and while the PIP pin is still a little snug to get in, I can do it. While the
other side snags on the threaded portion until my wife joggles the wings in
order for it to get into place. Am I not seeing some use for the threaded bolt
that comes later on? Mike Duane A207 >>>>
Hi Mike ,
I initially used the PIP pin and the bolt/Allen wrench pin which were supplied.
After some time and some struggles with the PIP pin due to a snug fit and not
much to get hold of, I changed to two bolt/Allen wrench pins since they are much
easier to insert and remove.
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, 912S
Message 14
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| Subject: | Wing spar pins ? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
John Wrote:
Hi Mike ,
I initially used the PIP pin and the bolt/Allen wrench pin which were supplied.
After some time and some struggles with the PIP pin due to a snug fit and not
much to get hold of, I changed to two bolt/Allen wrench pins since they are much
easier to insert and remove.
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, 912S
Isn't the Pip-pin functionality
required to keep the spars together on the port side?
Cheers,
Pete
A239
Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
I followed the recent thread and see one or two inferred assumptions that
MAY be incorrect [IMHO naturally!].
If I remember, the pip pin was chosen in order to bring the starboard spar
end snuggly up against the port one; (a) the cup isn't strong enough for
that and (b) the pip pin ears are on fixed 'reach' and we added some
washers so that the ears (when released) bring up against the starboard bush
to achieve the snugness inferred.
The starboard plain pin (with the threads sawn off) doesn't need to pull the
spars forward against the back of the CM, and anyway it's too late to
determine the required reach of the ears.
I think one must establish that the replacement pip pin for the bolt one
does not remain "ears-in"as it might allow the pin to jiggle forward. Also
if the ears are against the tincup back, stresses on the spar will not make
the ears bend in the tin cup.
Does that make sense?
That clever devil Neville should revel in the proposed bevel.
Ferg
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wing spar pins ? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
John,
Since the port side PIP pin has the washers that hold it, and the spars, snug
against the CM, what did you do to mimic this?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Working on tailwheel and baggage
bay. Trial fit of top and both wings. The wings fit! Conventional gear soon.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Wing spar pins |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Ferg,
Seems to me by the response that a PIP pin in the starboard side would be bad
as long as it inserted and removed easily. Any problem with the strength of
the PIP pin? It could also be backed by washers as on the port side. Wouldn't
hurt?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Working on tailwheel and baggage
bay. Trial fit of top and both wings. The wings fit! Conventional gear soon.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: GPS Driven Autopilots |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Seems to have more system functionality than the Digitrak (which I have) and
provides more information about what its upto.
I couldn't see from the website literature whether the sensitivity and
torque were adjustable (as they are on the Digitrak; but once set they never
change). But these characteristics could otherwise be modified by altering
the length of control horns on the servo and whatever part of the aileron
circuit it attaches to.
Digitrak's customer-service is good.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Renshaw" <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Europa-List: GPS Driven Autopilots
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw
<tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
>
> Gidday,
> I have heard of at least one builder who is using the Trio autopilot. I
> haven't diligantly studied the specs yet, but it is cheaper than the
> others, which isn't always the best place to start. However, I'd be
> interested in knowing whether anyone has an opinion on the use of these
GPS
> driven autopilots.
> http://www.trioavionics.com/Features.htm#Solid_State_Gyro
>
>
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Australia
>
> Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger (possibly convertible)
> Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected
> Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed
> Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted
> Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided)
> Instrumentation: Undecided
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Choosing an EFIS |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill and Sue" <billandsue@billbell.co.uk>
Sue and I need to decide on our panel soon, essentially, although both
we and the Europa are limited to VFR operation, we want a full panel if
only as a get-back-safely option.
Cost is a factor for us and we would prefer to avoid vacuum instruments
on weight and reliability grounds.
'Traditional' electric gyro horizon and DIs are shockingly expensive
compared with their vacuum equivalents (and there seems to be some doubt
about the reliability of some of them)
The cost of an electric horizon and DI is about 2,100 euros plus VAT -
our benchmark to compare the cost of alternatives. (The EFIS prices I
have listed are for the nearest equivalent to the mechanical
instruments)
One of the new EFIS systems now available would appear to be a sensible
route to go.
Impressive as they are, any of the pocket PC based systems are
non-starters for this job - I would not dream of letting my life depend
on a Microsoft product!
I know of four EFIS systems that appear to be candidates:
DYNON (1770 Euro)
Pros;
* Brilliant price
* Built in backup battery
Cons;
* Crude graphics
* Inability to display the pressure setting on the main screen- I wrote
to Dynon and queried this and got a prompt response confirming that the
Altimeter pressure setting is only available on a separate screen
accessed by two button pushes - they also state that they have no
intention of changing this.
I really don't feel comfortable with the idea of having to loose my
primary instruments to check or alter the altimeter setting -four button
presses and a variety of option screens seems to be a backward step from
the functionality of an analogue instrument. It would be simple enough
to use a traditional altimeter but it does raise serious doubts in my
mind about the whole approach to the design
* No European presence- some doubt about the commitment to service this
side of the Atlantic.
Blue Mountain EFIS Lite (3550 Euro)
Pros;
* Looks a well-made, good quality unit
Cons
* Too deep to fit the Europa Panel
* Looks more suited as a backup to their impressive EFIS ONE, it offers
moving maps and autopilot that appear on alternative screens.
All this extra functionality is very impressive but it really needs two
displays, I don't feel comfortable with the idea of scrolling between
different screens on primary flight instruments.
* Appears to have aggressive conditions of sale/ guarantee policy.
B & A UFD64 (8250 Euro)
Pros;
* An impressive looking unit.
* Very clear graphics
* Primary instruments always visible when other options are invoked.
* Can operate with a second screen
* European manufacture
Cons
* The price
* At this price I cannot help but doubt the future of the product, so
this raises questions over backup and service.
Grand Rapids Horizon (4725 Euro)
Pros;
* Good-looking graphics
* Dedicated primary instrument screen
* Other functions can be added to a second screen.
* Uses external GPS signals - better for using with other GPS mapping
systems/Trutrack autopilot
* Good guarantee/ conditions of sale.
Cons
* I have never seen this one in the flesh, so I don't know how good the
display is for instance.
* Lack of a presence in Europe raises some doubts about backup.
At present, although it is perhaps the best of the devices, I think the
B&A unit is a reject on price alone, and since the EFISLite won't fit,
it looks like a race between the Dynon and the Grand Rapids Horizon.
I would be grateful for anyone's experience of using any of these units,
corrections to my misconceptions or suggestions for alternatives we
should consider.
Bill & Sue
XS Trigear 465 -about to stick the top on!
Message 20
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Gidday,
For anyone interested I just finished speaking with Sid from Trio Avionics.
There web address is:
http://www.trioavionics.com/index.htm
They have a new product due within 40 days, where a secondary roll axis
Mems gyro is added to give even greater roll stability in turbulence. It
will cost about $200-300 US more, but still the unit will be several
hundred dollars cheaper than TruTrak. So, worth a look for those interested.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger (possibly convertible)
Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected
Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed
Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted
Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided)
Instrumentation: Undecided
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Wing spar pins |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: <DuaneFamly@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing spar pins
| --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
|
| Ferg,
|
| Seems to me by the response that a PIP pin in the starboard side would be
bad
| as long as it inserted and removed easily. Any problem with the strength
of
| the PIP pin? It could also be backed by washers as on the port side.
Wouldn't
| hurt?
|
|
| Mike Duane A207
| Redding, California
| XS Conventional Gear
| CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Working on tailwheel and baggage
| bay. Trial fit of top and both wings. The wings fit! Conventional gear
soon.
Mike,
Well, I don't know. I kept the bolt version starboard side,
'cause the manual said to. No, I don't think there is any problem with the
pip-pin's strength since it's used portside, but the extra cost of the
'ears' isn't utilised, so why use it. Peter Zutrauen had it right when he
mentioned the need for it portside, but I don't see how it can be needed on
the starboard. My only caution there was the need to pen it in with the
original fixture since the dimensions MIGHT keep the ears in and allow the
starboard pip-pin to vibe out. If you use the retainer specified in the
manual, what is the advantage of the pin-pin? How would you apply the
washers, since no dimension is given (might be same as port) and pin is in
the cup...........?
Just mulling...........
Cheers, Ferg
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Wing spar pins |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Mmmmmmmmmm. Maybe the status quo wins. Will continue to mull it over.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Working on tailwheel and baggage
bay. Trial fit of top and both wings. The wings fit! Conventional gear soon.
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