---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/02/04: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:39 AM - Re: Pilot operating handbook (ivor.phillips) 2. 01:23 AM - Re: Pilot operating handbook (Jonathan Smith) 3. 02:25 AM - Re: Pilot operating handbook (owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com) 4. 03:44 AM - Re: Pilot operating handbook (R.C.Harrison) 5. 04:38 AM - Re: Pilot operating handbook (Paul McAllister) 6. 04:49 AM - Re: Pilot operating handbook (Jonathan Smith) 7. 05:05 AM - Re: Pilot operating handbook (Peter Zutrauen) 8. 06:17 AM - Re: Pilot operating handbook (n3eu@comcast.net) 9. 06:23 AM - Re: Pilot operating handbook (Jim Butcher) 10. 07:04 AM - Trike Nose Wheel Tubes 11x4.00-5. (R.C.Harrison) 11. 07:19 AM - Re: Trike Nose Wheel Tubes 11x4.00-5. (Mike Baker) 12. 09:16 AM - Idle speed (Erich Trombley) 13. 10:47 AM - Re: Battery (nigel charles) 14. 01:09 PM - Re: Trike Nose Wheel Tubes 11x4.00-5. (R.C.Harrison) 15. 03:38 PM - Re: Trike Nose Wheel Tubes 11x4.00-5. (Rocketman) 16. 04:27 PM - Re: Re: Pilot operating handbook (Fergus Kyle) 17. 05:21 PM - Re: Pilot operating handbook (Paul McAllister) 18. 05:41 PM - Cooling hoses too close! (Jeff Roberts) 19. 08:31 PM - Mod 62 Pins Not Fitting (Dan Bish) 20. 11:29 PM - Re: Mod 62 Pins Not Fitting (Kingsley Hurst) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:53 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" I can send you the POH in PDF form if thats any use to you, Ivor Phillips XS486 London UK CM Installed,working on rudder cables, trial fit top and wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > Hi all , > > I was wondering what people have done for these. Has anyone created one in MS Word that I can re use? > > Paul > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:53 AM PST US From: "Jonathan Smith" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jonathan Smith" Hi Ivor, I saw your message about the Europa POH on the Europa list. Having very recently bought a (completed)Europa I wondered if you might be kind enough to send me a copy of the POH too? Thanks in advance! Best Regards, Jon Smith G-TERN ----- Original Message ----- From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" > > I can send you the POH in PDF form if thats any use to you, > Ivor Phillips > XS486 London UK > CM Installed,working on rudder cables, > trial fit top and wings > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul McAllister" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > > > Hi all , > > > > I was wondering what people have done for these. Has anyone created one in > MS Word that I can re use? > > > > Paul > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:07 AM PST US From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook --> Europa-List message posted by: Hi What's wrong with the one that comes from Europa? Regards Gert Gert Dalgaard Kit 151, OY-GDS mono-wheel, Rotax 914 and about 250 hours Den 2/3-2004, kl. 10.15, skrev Jonathan Smith: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jonathan Smith" > > > Hi Ivor, > I saw your message about the Europa POH on the Europa list. Having > very > recently bought a (completed)Europa I wondered if you might be kind > enough > to send me a copy of the POH too? Thanks in advance! > > Best Regards, > Jon Smith > G-TERN > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ivor.phillips" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" > >> >> I can send you the POH in PDF form if thats any use to you, >> Ivor Phillips >> XS486 London UK >> CM Installed,working on rudder cables, >> trial fit top and wings >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Paul McAllister" >> To: >> Subject: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook >> >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" >> >>> >>> Hi all , >>> >>> I was wondering what people have done for these. Has anyone created >>> one > in >> MS Word that I can re use? >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:06 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Jon. The POH should always stay with the a/c since it is a record of the current method of operating your particular machine specifically allied to the instructions being passed to a new pilot. The vendor of your "new" a/c should have supplied the POH with the a/c. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Smith" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jonathan Smith" > > Hi Ivor, > I saw your message about the Europa POH on the Europa list. Having very > recently bought a (completed)Europa I wondered if you might be kind enough > to send me a copy of the POH too? Thanks in advance! > > Best Regards, > Jon Smith > G-TERN > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ivor.phillips" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" > > > > > I can send you the POH in PDF form if thats any use to you, > > Ivor Phillips > > XS486 London UK > > CM Installed,working on rudder cables, > > trial fit top and wings > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Paul McAllister" > > To: > > Subject: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > > > > > > Hi all , > > > > > > I was wondering what people have done for these. Has anyone created one > in > > MS Word that I can re use? > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:41 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Gert, A POH must stay in the aircraft at all times and the one from Europa is a little on the large side and contains material that is not typically found in a POH. I am looking for something a little "slimmer" to keep in the aircraft. Paul ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:54 AM PST US From: "Jonathan Smith" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jonathan Smith" Hi, Thanks very much for the info about the POH (and to Ivor for kindly e-mailing it to me!) Yes, I have got the original manual with the plane and it's very good - it's just that I work away from home alot with my laptop and it'll be nice to take the "book" with me on that to learn about the new toy! Best Regards, Jon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > > Hi! Jon. > The POH should always stay with the a/c since it is a record of the current > method of operating your particular machine specifically allied to the > instructions being passed to a new pilot. > The vendor of your "new" a/c should have supplied the POH with the a/c. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jonathan Smith" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jonathan Smith" > > > > > Hi Ivor, > > I saw your message about the Europa POH on the Europa list. Having very > > recently bought a (completed)Europa I wondered if you might be kind enough > > to send me a copy of the POH too? Thanks in advance! > > > > Best Regards, > > Jon Smith > > G-TERN > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "ivor.phillips" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" > > > > > > > > I can send you the POH in PDF form if thats any use to you, > > > Ivor Phillips > > > XS486 London UK > > > CM Installed,working on rudder cables, > > > trial fit top and wings > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Paul McAllister" > > > To: > > > Subject: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > > > > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all , > > > > > > > > I was wondering what people have done for these. Has anyone created > one > > in > > > MS Word that I can re use? > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:43 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook From: "Peter Zutrauen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" Hi Ivor, Could you post it on the europa owner's forum (in the documents section?)... http://forum.okhuijsen.org/viewforum.php?f=18&sid=e71441934093c540331d10 4820140a2a That would let us all take a peek :-) Cheers, thanks & blue skies, Pete A239 -----Original Message----- From: ivor.phillips [mailto:ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com] Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" I can send you the POH in PDF form if thats any use to you, Ivor Phillips XS486 London UK CM Installed,working on rudder cables, trial fit top and wings ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > Hi all , > > I was wondering what people have done for these. Has anyone created one in MS Word that I can re use? > > Paul > > == == == == ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:14 AM PST US From: n3eu@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net > A POH must stay in the aircraft at all times and the one from Europa is a > little on the large side and contains material that is not typically found > in a POH. I am looking for something a little "slimmer" to keep in the > aircraft. > > Paul > In the U.S., no POH (formally Airplane Flight Manual) is required - under 91.9(b)(2), for amateur-built aircraft, placards and markings can substitute for the AFM. Technically also, placards and markings need not be affixed (such as airspeed indicator markings) until established during the flight test period. FAA's Flight Test Handbook, AC 90-89A, urges development of a "Flight Manual" and checklists (or impliedly use Europa's), but the manual need not be aboard the aircraft during flight, nor can this Handbook make one mandatory. It would be impractical in flight for a Breezy! Regards, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:07 AM PST US From: "Jim Butcher" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Pilot operating handbook --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" Paul, Our kit came with a Europa Owners Manual, a 8 1/2" x 5" book. The weight and balance information is in there. If you didn't receive the book, I can copy that chapter for you. I would guess John Hurst can sell you a copy of the manual. Jim & Heather Butcher A185 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:17 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Europa-List: Trike Nose Wheel Tubes 11x4.00-5. --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Guys. About 6 months ago I put messages out about regular failures of the Cheng Shin Tubes. The cause I felt was due to the tube being slightly too large for the tyre, making a fold in it'self on assembly and therefore fretting and wearing through to eventually puncture. I made a commitment .... to myself that in future I would put the tube on a 200 hour replacement plan since there seems to be no alternative available. However here we are again with a tube only puncture this time right on one of its construction lines but on examination the tube also has the similar fretting marks indicating folds. My suppliers whilst sympathetic to the problem say that the manufacturers will say that their tube isn't intended for aircraft? Needless to say my 200 hour rule wouldn't have saved the day ! Has anyone any ideas? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 PS. BTW I'm stopping taking passengers called Jason since the failure on 21st September was just starting rolling on departure with Jason Harrison and the one on 28th February was just lining up to park after a short flight with Jason Harley.! ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:00 AM PST US From: Mike Baker Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Nose Wheel Tubes 11x4.00-5. --> Europa-List message posted by: Mike Baker Do you put "baby powder' in the tire before you stick the tube in ? Talc should keep the tube from fretting. read baby powder ingredients. --- "R.C.Harrison" wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > > > Hi! Guys. > About 6 months ago I put messages out about regular > failures of the Cheng Shin Tubes. The cause I felt > was due to the tube being slightly too large for the > tyre, making a fold in it'self on assembly and > therefore fretting and wearing through to eventually > puncture. > I made a commitment .... to myself that in future I > would put the tube on a 200 hour replacement plan > since there seems to be no alternative available. > However here we are again with a tube only puncture > this time right on one of its construction lines but > on examination the tube also has the similar > fretting marks indicating folds. > My suppliers whilst sympathetic to the problem say > that the manufacturers will say that their tube > isn't intended for aircraft? > Needless to say my 200 hour rule wouldn't have saved > the day ! > Has anyone any ideas? > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 > > PS. BTW I'm stopping taking passengers called Jason > since the failure on 21st September was just > starting rolling on departure with Jason Harrison > and the one on 28th February was just lining up to > park after a short flight with Jason Harley.! > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:03 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Idle speed From: Erich Trombley --> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley Paul, 1,800 rpm is the speed I typically idle at as well. I can idle at 1,600 rpm, however, at this speed the engine is a little rough. I do use 1,600 rpm on landing though. Regards, Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:07 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Battery --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" A battery with an ability to provide a large cranking current is more important than the Ahr rating. Provided that you use one of these a17Ahr battery should be sufficient. I started off with a standard sealed lead acid battery but I soon found that cold starts after lengthy lay-offs were marginal. Once I changed to the newer type it was obvious that much more cranking energy was available. As it is not practical to hand prop a Rotax it is wise to have an external power connection to allow for the day the battery lets you down whether it is due to battery age or just leaving the battery master on by mistake. The 912S is much more critical of battery state then the 912 or the 914 due to its greater compression ratio. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:14 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Nose Wheel Tubes 11x4.00-5. --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Mike. Yes, that's a very valid point for the future but the current tube and Tyre were both new so there was a liberal coating between them anyway. regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Baker" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Nose Wheel Tubes 11x4.00-5. > --> Europa-List message posted by: Mike Baker > > Do you put "baby powder' in the tire before you stick > the tube in ? > Talc should keep the tube from fretting. read baby > powder ingredients. > > --- "R.C.Harrison" wrote: > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > > > > > > Hi! Guys. > > About 6 months ago I put messages out about regular > > failures of the Cheng Shin Tubes. The cause I felt > > was due to the tube being slightly too large for the > > tyre, making a fold in it'self on assembly and > > therefore fretting and wearing through to eventually > > puncture. > > I made a commitment .... to myself that in future I > > would put the tube on a 200 hour replacement plan > > since there seems to be no alternative available. > > However here we are again with a tube only puncture > > this time right on one of its construction lines but > > on examination the tube also has the similar > > fretting marks indicating folds. > > My suppliers whilst sympathetic to the problem say > > that the manufacturers will say that their tube > > isn't intended for aircraft? > > Needless to say my 200 hour rule wouldn't have saved > > the day ! > > Has anyone any ideas? > > Regards > > Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 > > > > PS. BTW I'm stopping taking passengers called Jason > > since the failure on 21st September was just > > starting rolling on departure with Jason Harrison > > and the one on 28th February was just lining up to > > park after a short flight with Jason Harley.! > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > http://search.yahoo.com > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:52 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Nose Wheel Tubes 11x4.00-5. --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman R.C.Harrison wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > >Hi! Mike. >Yes, that's a very valid point for the future but the current tube and Tyre >were both new so there was a liberal coating between them anyway. >regards >Bob Harrison G-PTAG >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mike Baker" >To: >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike Nose Wheel Tubes 11x4.00-5. > > >======================================================================= > > Bob, If you're not already doing so, you might dust the tube, then slightly inflate it, before installing in the tire. Just enough to get the creases out. Works like a charm on bikes and trailer tires... Jeff ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:58 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pilot operating handbook --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" From: "Jim Butcher" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Pilot operating handbook | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" | | Paul,| | Our kit came with a Europa Owners Manual, a 8 1/2" x 5" book. The weight | and balance information is in there. If you didn't receive the book, I can | copy that chapter for you. I would guess John Hurst can sell you a copy of | the manual. | Jim & Heather Butcher A185 I quite agree. What's wrong with it? If it needs amending for your particular model, the regulations of most countries permit that. Failure to require it does not imply forbiding it. Imagine NOt wanting it aboard! Why not spend $500 for a Palm and transfer the contents into it - then you can have a source of operating information AND a telephonedirectory/diary all in one? Ferg ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:33 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Fred, As always you are an unexpected wealth of information. I was still working under the assumptions for an ABBA approved aircraft in Australia requiring a POH. In actual fact I suspect that the Australian experimental rules are like the same as the US and a POH isn't required there anyone either. Regards, Paul do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pilot operating handbook > --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net > > > A POH must stay in the aircraft at all times and the one from Europa is a > > little on the large side and contains material that is not typically found > > in a POH. I am looking for something a little "slimmer" to keep in the > > aircraft. > > > > Paul > > > > In the U.S., no POH (formally Airplane Flight Manual) is required - under 91.9(b)(2), for amateur-built aircraft, placards and markings can substitute for the AFM. Technically also, placards and markings need not be affixed (such as airspeed indicator markings) until established during the flight test period. FAA's Flight Test Handbook, AC 90-89A, urges development of a "Flight Manual" and checklists (or impliedly use Europa's), but the manual need not be aboard the aircraft during flight, nor can this Handbook make one mandatory. It would be impractical in flight for a Breezy! > > Regards, > Fred F. > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:15 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Cooling hoses too close! From: Jeff Roberts --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts I am installing the cooling hoses to the radiator. Both seem to be very close to the silencer/muffler at the point of entry to the radiator. Looks like about a 1/4 to 1/2 inch from it. Should these be protected from the heat with shielding or fire sleeve? What have others done? I also have a new Navaid auto pilot, complete that I want to sell if anyone is looking. Thanks in advance, Jeff A258 Tri Gear Air frame almost ready for primer. Still contemplating instruments. Settled on the AIM-1 from IK technologies for engine monitoring. Leaning towards Becker for transponder & radio. Also like Dynon with backup air speed and ALT. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:35 PM PST US From: "Dan Bish" Subject: Europa-List: Mod 62 Pins Not Fitting --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" Hi all, I'm in the process of doing Mod 62, that is, drilling out the holes on the torque tube to accommodate the 3/8" pins in replacement of the 1/4" ones. The good news is that I'm doing it in advance of installing it into the plane and fortunately don't have the top on yet. I'm following the instructions that came with the mod that say to use a 23/64" bit to drill out the holes. It then recommends a 3/8" reamer. I used both and the pins still don't come close to fitting into the holes. I tried a reamer then used a 3/8" bit on my drill press and have all the holes on the tube and TP5, 9, & 10 enlarged but the pins still look like they'll go in only with some force. I'd like to trial fit the pins into the tube prior to mounting it into the back of the plane but I'm wondering just how much I should go banging those pins into the holes only to find that I can't get them back out again. Anyone else done this mod? Words of wisdom? BTW, I had a look at the photos area of Steve's site today and found some helpful stuff there. I'll be putting up some photos soon and encourage all to do the same. I've already found several photos there that helped to answer some of my questions. I've never built anything close to this before and have extremely limited knowledge so your photos really help. Thanks for all the help. Dan A144 N914RB Tucson, AZ Bought someone else's dream 30% done. Wings done, CM in, working on TP mass balance among other things. No idea what I'm doing but doing it anyway. Thinking about authoring "Europas for Dummies" ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:41 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 62 Pins Not Fitting --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > I'm in the process of doing Mod 62, that is, drilling out the holes on the torque tube to accommodate the 3/8" pins in replacement of the 1/4" ones. Dan, I don't know how you approached this job but I assume you had all the parts assembled with the original pins before enlarging the holes. This is important in order to keep all the parts in correct alignment and to ensure the enlarged holes remain concentric. If this was done, I would suggest you now find someone with a micrometer to actually measure the diameter of the pins. The reamer should have made a true to size hole so I would make sure the pins are true to size also. If the pins are more than .0005" oversize, I think they more than likely would be too tight. When we did mine, we enlarged the holes first and then turned down new pins to be a firm fit. Mate, I think most of us are first time builders and as such have all learned heaps. Don't feel alone in that department. Regards Kingsley Hurst Europa Mono Classic 281 in Oz