Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:51 AM - Re: Europa Finger Brake Master Cylinder Brand???? (Richard)
2. 05:10 AM - Re: Europa Finger Brake Master Cylinder Brand???? (KARL HEINDL)
3. 05:27 AM - Grand Rapids EFIS-1 (Nigel Harrison)
4. 06:00 AM - Re: Grand Rapids EFIS-1 (Alan Stills)
5. 07:04 AM - Re: Grand Rapids EFIS-1 (Paul McAllister)
6. 07:07 AM - Re: Blue Wing Plumbing Roto (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
7. 07:58 AM - (ScramIt@aol.com)
8. 08:52 AM - Re: Europa Finger Brake Master Cylinder Brand???? (G-IANI)
9. 10:25 AM - Brake lines (Kenneth Gresham)
10. 10:55 AM - ASI (Paul Stewart)
11. 11:39 AM - Re: Brake Seals (KARL HEINDL)
12. 12:38 PM - Europa Finger Brake Master Cylinder (Richard Holder)
13. 07:30 PM - Fuel smell (Paul McAllister)
14. 07:43 PM - Re: Conduit Positioning (Steve & Eileen Genotte)
15. 07:49 PM - Re: ASI (n3eu@comcast.net)
16. 08:05 PM - Re: Re: Conduit Positioning (ScramIt@aol.com)
17. 10:34 PM - Re: Fuel smell (R.C.Harrison)
18. 11:06 PM - Finger Brake Repair Kits (Tony Renshaw)
19. 11:23 PM - 4 Ply for Less PSI (Tony Renshaw)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Europa Finger Brake Master Cylinder Brand???? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
Tony,
Mine were stiff also and I had to dismantle the cylinders and clean
quite a lot of leftover grinding paste out of them. I too would like to
know who the manufacturer is.
Richard Iddon. G-RIXS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
Renshaw
Subject: Europa-List: Europa Finger Brake Master Cylinder Brand????
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw
--> <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Gidday,
I have a Europa dual cylinder master cylinder for finger brakes, but it
is not stamped with a manufacturers name, and therefore I cannot find
out what type of lubricant is OK to put down the bores to loosen things
up, and also for the future I'd like to find out who can supply seals,
and how to gain access to them. So, any ideas???? Anyone else who has
installed these in a Classic module, I'd like to hear from.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger (possibly convertible)
Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected
Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed
Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted
Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided)
Instrumentation: Undecided
Message 2
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| Subject: | Europa Finger Brake Master Cylinder Brand???? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Tony,
I am in the middle of upgrading my finger brake installation. The master cylinder
is an American automotive product of unknown origin. The seal only in front
of the piston is available from any automotive supplier. The same applies to
the the 1/4 inch brass compression fittings; these can also be obtained from mst
hardware stores, but this may be a problem in Australia. The Matco brake valve
and reservoir can also be obtained from ACS. I have ordered all the nuts and
bolts and brackets and handgrips etc. from Europa. The bore is 3/4 inch, and
the brake fluid must be Dot5. The original brake line tubing supplied by Europa
seems a little undersized for the brass fittings, i.e. you have to be careful
when tightening the nut so that the olive doesn't tilt.
I had a lot of trouble last year bleeding the brake lines and finally gave up.
This winter I disassembled it all and noticed that the seal in front of the piston
(with another seal) kept sticking. This meant that the piston didn't always
return to the maximum back position. I tried cleaning it thoroughly and greasing
the cylinders, but it made little difference. Changing those seals has fixed
it. I assume that the problem was one of the following: seals have expired
their shelf life, wrong seals, or the spring is too weak. I am also changing
all the short brake line sections to proper 1/4 inch size ones.
I am happy with the way I installed the master cylinder and handles. I still have
full use of the open tunnel ( even with the airbrake handle for the glider
wings installed), the brakes are easy to use, and the handles don't interfere
with anything else.
Hope this helps.
Karl
From: Tony Renshaw <TONYRENSHAW@OPTUSNET.COM.AU>
Subject: Europa-List: Europa Finger Brake Master Cylinder Brand????
-- Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <TONYRENSHAW@OPTUSNET.COM.AU>
Gidday,
I have a Europa dual cylinder master cylinder for finger brakes, but it is
not stamped with a manufacturers name, and therefore I cannot find out what
type of lubricant is OK to put down the bores to loosen things up, and also
for the future I'd like to find out who can supply seals, and how to gain
access to them. So, any ideas???? Anyone else who has installed these in a
Classic module, I'd like to hear from.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
Classic 236B.B. Taildragger (possibly convertible)
Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected
Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed
Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted
Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided)
Instrumentation: Undecided
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Grand Rapids EFIS-1 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Harrison" <nigel.harrison@manx.net>
Dear All,
I am considering going "all-electric" using the GR EFIS-1, with backup ASI,
Alt, and electric T/C, thus avoiding the need for vacuum driven instruments.
Has anyone any experience yet of incorporating the EFIS-1 into their Europa?
Regards
Nigel Harrison
#s584
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EFIS-1 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
Nigel,
I also am installing a all "electric" system with backups. I researched all
the EFIS's and came to the conclusion that I didn't want a system that was
GPS driven. I went went with the DYNON EFIS the is completely autonomous of
the GPS system. The price was right and fits nicely into the panel. It is a
little smaller than the Blue Mountain but have had excellent reviews from
those that are flying it. They also have an AOA that works with it. BTW it
has a 2 hr battery backup for a complete electrical failure.
Al Stills
A095
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EFIS-1 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
For what its worth the I spoke to Greg Toman (the designer of the Grand
Rapids system) and he tells me that his system does not make use of GPS
information for determining attitude information.
I have his EIS4000 and I find them quite a responsive company to deal with.
Once my vacuum system gets a bit of time on it I intend to replace it with
the EFIS Horizon.
Regards, Paul
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Grand Rapids EFIS-1
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills"
<astills785@earthlink.net>
>
> Nigel,
> I also am installing a all "electric" system with backups. I researched
all
> the EFIS's and came to the conclusion that I didn't want a system that was
> GPS driven. I went went with the DYNON EFIS the is completely autonomous
of
> the GPS system. The price was right and fits nicely into the panel. It is
a
> little smaller than the Blue Mountain but have had excellent reviews from
> those that are flying it. They also have an AOA that works with it. BTW it
> has a 2 hr battery backup for a complete electrical failure.
> Al Stills
> A095
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Blue Wing Plumbing Roto |
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
Thanks for your input. I did check out the click bond site. Interesting.
Unfortunately on only a handful of websites photos will not appear on my
computer. < disheartening as it is only a few months old> Your site happens to
be one
of them. I would still like to see your installation. Perhaps if you have
time you could upload a photo in the Europa Owners Forum. There is a Builders
Forum area specifically for photos and conversations on ideas and methods!
http://forum.okhuijsen.org/
Thanks for your help!
Brian S
A276
Do not archive.
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
In a message dated 3/21/04 12:28:22 AM, damnyankees@comcast.net writes:
> http://home.comcast.net/~damnyankees/Wingpage.htm
>
SteveG,
I answered Brian off list, hope your back is feeling better. Love your site,
nothing like telling it like it is. The only thing I would say is to make the
holes in the ribs as near to center as possible, in the vertical dimension.
Make a two ply patch 2x2 then drill your hole through that. I added my 2x2
patches later so you only see it in one or two photos. Where the hole has to
be
near the lower wing "floor " panel, I.E., the double rib. I reinforced the
inside of the rib with 4 plys of bid in the U shape.
SteveD
Message 8
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| Subject: | Europa Finger Brake Master Cylinder Brand???? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
Hi Tony and Karl
I have the factory finger brakes (less the tunnel mount as I have my own
tunnel design). I helped a little with the development as I was working on
finger brakes as the factory was developing the mod. I have made Andy aware
that supplying 6mm tubing for use with 1/4in (6.33mm) fittings is not the
best solution and as far as I know he is thinking about it. At present I
have left the 6mm tube but may replace it with 1/4in Polyflow at some stage.
As it is it is far to easy to accidentally pull a tube out of a connector
particularly at the calliper down by the wheels. Also, As Karl said you
have to be careful when tightening the nut so that the olive doesn't tilt
I have had a lot of trouble with the piston only returning very slowly to
the maximum back position. Like Karl I have tried my best with cleaning and
lubricating to fix it but with only partial success. It is nice to hear
that Karl may have found a solution and it would be a great help if he would
give us the details of the replacement seals.
Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI
Europa Club Assistant Mods Rep
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kenneth Gresham" <kgresham@mtco.com>
I'm looking for the easiest way (of course) to route brake lines from finger brake
master cylinder in tunnel to tri-gear slaves.
Ken Gresham
A268
On the gear, wngs rigged, trying to do all possible
before bonding on top.
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Our primary instruments are beinb provided by the BMA EFIS 1, but need a
back up alti, compass and ASI. Anyone recommend a suitable ASI - the
smaller instruments I've seen seem to have a fairly poor low speed
range. Idealy looking for something smaller than a 3 1/8 instrument.
Regards
Paul G-GIDY
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
I can supply you or anyone else with the seals for the brake cylinder. I don't
remember the price but can check it out when I am back in Canada. John Hurst should
be able to do the same. They aresimply 3/4 inch rubber seals without holes.
The end of the spring fits exactly into the back. A better solution might
be to get a stronger spring from a spring manufacturer, but this one is special
with a plate at the end which fits into the back of the seal.
For the 6 mm brake lines it just occurred to me that a few wraps of Teflon (PTFE)
tape should do the trick of bringing it up to 1/4 inch.
Karl
From: "G-IANI" <G-IANI@NTLWORLD.COM>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Finger Brake Master Cylinder Brand????
-- Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" <G-IANI@NTLWORLD.COM>
Hi Tony and Karl
I have the factory finger brakes (less the tunnel mount as I have my own
tunnel design).I helped a little with the development as I was working on
finger brakes as the factory was developing the mod.I have made Andy aware
that supplying 6mm tubing for use with 1/4in (6.33mm) fittings is not the
best solution and as far as I know he is thinking about it.At present I
have left the 6mm tube but may replace it with 1/4in Polyflow at some stage.
As it is it is far to easy to accidentally pull a tube out of a connector
particularly at the calliper down by the wheels.Also, As Karl said you
have to be careful when tightening the nut so that the olive doesn't tilt
I have had a lot of trouble with the piston only returning very slowly to
the maximum back position.Like Karl I have tried my best with cleaning and
lubricating to fix it but with only partial success.It is nice to hear
that Karl may have found a solution and it would be a great help if he would
give us the details of the replacement seals.
Ian Rickard#505 G-IANI
Europa Club Assistant Mods Rep
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Europa Finger Brake Master Cylinder |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
>
> Hi Tony and Karl
>
> I have the factory finger brakes (less the tunnel mount as I have my own
> tunnel design). I helped a little with the development as I was working on
> finger brakes as the factory was developing the mod. I have made Andy aware
> that supplying 6mm tubing for use with 1/4in (6.33mm) fittings is not the
> best solution and as far as I know he is thinking about it. At present I
> have left the 6mm tube but may replace it with 1/4in Polyflow at some stage.
> As it is it is far to easy to accidentally pull a tube out of a connector
> particularly at the calliper down by the wheels. Also, As Karl said you
> have to be careful when tightening the nut so that the olive doesn't tilt
>
> I have had a lot of trouble with the piston only returning very slowly to
> the maximum back position. Like Karl I have tried my best with cleaning and
> lubricating to fix it but with only partial success. It is nice to hear
> that Karl may have found a solution and it would be a great help if he would
> give us the details of the replacement seals.
>
>
> Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI
> Europa Club Assistant Mods Rep
> e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
I had this problem when I changed a master cylinder. I had fitted the seal
in such a way that it was bent back on itself and was jamming between the
piston and the bore. A more careful re-insertion of the piston with the
seals cured it.
The spring is just fine but it is hard to push against the spring and hold
the shaft at the same time. I fitted the lever to the piston shaft first and
then pushed against an immovable object to get the "bottom" (pivot) pin in
place. Check you are pushing it in from the right side as it is a pain to do
and even more of a pain to redo if you put it in the wrong way round !
The best lubricant is the brake fluid you are going to use !
Whoops - I am talking about the standard single master cylinders, and I now
see, on re-reading, that you were talking about the factory dual master
cylinder. Oh well my last paragraph applies anyway !
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, EGSG (Stapleford)
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Message 13
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
I know this is an old topic, but I have a faint smell of auto gas in my Europa.
I have replaced the elbow with an aluminum one and tightened all of the hose
clips to no avail.
I be interested in some best practices in debugging this problem.
Paul
Message 14
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| Subject: | RE: Conduit Positioning |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve & Eileen Genotte" <damnyankees@comcast.net>
How did you arrive at the center vertical position in the rib? I ask
because I seem to remember rather distinctly Andy Draper telling me to put
the conduit low, but not so low as to make the bottom of the cut remove more
than "X" amount of rib above the lower wing's skin. (It's been a few years
and I didn't write it down, so my apologies for only having "X" as a
reference.) I don't have the wings here - and they're closed anyway - so
I'm unable to proffer much beyond this hazy recollection and the picture I
just downloaded to the Europa Forum.
Steve "El Roto" G.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of ScramIt@aol.com
Subject:
--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
In a message dated 3/21/04 12:28:22 AM, damnyankees@comcast.net writes:
> http://home.comcast.net/~damnyankees/Wingpage.htm
>
SteveG,
I answered Brian off list, hope your back is feeling better. Love your site,
nothing like telling it like it is. The only thing I would say is to make
the
holes in the ribs as near to center as possible, in the vertical dimension.
Make a two ply patch 2x2 then drill your hole through that. I added my 2x2
patches later so you only see it in one or two photos. Where the hole has
to be
near the lower wing "floor " panel, I.E., the double rib. I reinforced the
inside of the rib with 4 plys of bid in the U shape.
SteveD
Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
Paul --
Well, under loose definition of recommend, I have a UMA 2-1/4" ASI that's
visually real nice, 40 to 200MPH. Took one return of product to Spruce to get
one with just a couple knots max error on lower range where you like it
accurate. Instrument shop checked the cal for me, so that's how I know, but
she did say "that's UMA for 'ya." Opening it up and looking inside (did
that to paint the range colors and red line with jeweler's loupe and artist
brushes), it didn't look real well built to me, but it's light, cheap, works,
and it's a just a backup for me too.
Reg,
Fred F.
> Our primary instruments are being provided by the BMA EFIS 1, but need a
> back up alti, compass and ASI. Anyone recommend a suitable ASI - the
> smaller instruments I've seen seem to have a fairly poor low speed
> range. Idealy looking for something smaller than a 3 1/8 instrument.
>
> Regards
> Paul G-GIDY
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Conduit Positioning |
--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
I saw your photo's and like the way you did it, I asked the factory, Andy or
Neville, and they told me to keep it centered. It might have been that I
didn't give them an exact position of where in the rib I was going to drill. That
being the case, the safest measurement they can give is centered, with a 2 ply
patch. In construction you always hole the center of a support if you can, or
so I've been told.
Steved.
Message 17
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Paul.
Make sure all the small "jubilee" clips are rounded in the diameter of the
pipe they are clamping. Sometimes they have a "flat" on one side of the pipe
which squeezes the pipe on one side more than the other leaving a small
leak.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel smell
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I know this is an old topic, but I have a faint smell of auto gas in my
Europa. I have replaced the elbow with an aluminum one and tightened all of
the hose clips to no avail.
>
> I be interested in some best practices in debugging this problem.
>
> Paul
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Finger Brake Repair Kits |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Gidday,
Here is a web link to a company providing a repair kit for the finger
brake master cylinders, and the second one is the company that
manufacturers them.
http://www.vwparts.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=VDPUOS&C
ategory_Code=OFF_ROAD_BRAKES
http://jamarperformance.com/Default.htm
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Message 19
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| Subject: | 4 Ply for Less PSI |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Gidday,
Along with the issues of wear, I am wondering if there is an argument for
using 4 ply tyres with their lower psi of 30 vs 6 ply tyres with consequent
50 psi? The difference might be whether I bounce as high, or whether I can
pump them up to the required psi with a foot or hand pump. So,
whatdoyareckon???
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
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