Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:02 AM - Wing assembly question (Rocketman)
2. 09:00 AM - Re: Wing assembly question (John & Amy Eckel)
3. 09:46 AM - Re: Wing assembly question (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
4. 01:53 PM - Pitch trim damper (John & Amy Eckel)
5. 02:26 PM - Europa Subject Lines (Tony Renshaw)
6. 03:13 PM - Re: Pitch trim damper (R.C.Harrison)
7. 05:02 PM - Re: Wing assembly question (Robert Berube)
8. 05:41 PM - Re: Pitch trim damper (Cliff Shaw)
9. 05:49 PM - Re: Wing assembly question (Rocketman)
10. 05:56 PM - Re: Pitch trim damper (Rocketman)
11. 07:19 PM - Re: Pitch trim damper (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
12. 07:20 PM - SNF Forum (Jim Butcher)
13. 08:21 PM - Re: Pitch trim damper (R.C.Harrison)
14. 11:09 PM - Re: Pitch trim damper (nigel charles)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Wing assembly question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
I'm in the process of installing the hardware in the starboard wing, and
am a little stumped. The manual calls for opening a 1/4" hole, near the
main pin bushing, closest to the first wing rib, that is suppose to be
covered over. This hole is to mount the quick connect bellcrank. My
assumption is that the hole should be above the centerline of the
bushing and to the rib side. I measured the dimensions, given in the
manual, and drilled a small pilot hole, hoping to find the factrory
drilled hole. I didn't find any open hollows, that indicated that there
was an existing hole. My question is, before I drill the larger hole
and counter bore, am I drilling in the right place? Thanks for any
clearification...
--
Jeff
Tri-Gear N55XS
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wing assembly question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Jeff,
As I recall I could see the hole through the fiberglass.
If you can't see through because you used peel ply paint
over that area with some epoxy and it should become clear
enough to see through.
John, A230
--- Original Message -----
From: "Rocketman" <topglock@cox.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Wing assembly question
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
>
> I'm in the process of installing the hardware in the starboard wing, and
> am a little stumped. The manual calls for opening a 1/4" hole, near the
> main pin bushing, closest to the first wing rib, that is suppose to be
> covered over. This hole is to mount the quick connect bellcrank. My
> assumption is that the hole should be above the centerline of the
> bushing and to the rib side. I measured the dimensions, given in the
> manual, and drilled a small pilot hole, hoping to find the factrory
> drilled hole. I didn't find any open hollows, that indicated that there
> was an existing hole. My question is, before I drill the larger hole
> and counter bore, am I drilling in the right place? Thanks for any
> clearification...
>
> --
> Jeff
> Tri-Gear N55XS
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wing assembly question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Jeff,
I did a quick measurement of my starboard wing bellcrank placement. The
center of the bolt on mine measures approx. 2.5" from the wing rib and 2.3" from
the top of the spar. I also had a pilot hole in my wing. Have you done the
layups from the wing rib to the spar? If so you may have covered the hole. Or have
you removed the peel ply that the factory lays up onto the wing rib? That is a
big problem for some people that have missed that step or thought that there
wasn't any put on because it was not obvious with red strips and all. If all
these are OK then you might try running a flashlight from one side of the spar
while you look for the hole on the other side.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Tailwheel complete. Wing pins and
tie bar installed. Working on baggage bay. Conventional gear assembled and soon
to be fitted.
But Sun-N-Fun comes soon!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Pitch trim damper |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Hello,
I am setting up my pitch trim damper and noticed quite a bit
of hysterisis (sp?) in the movement of the trim damper. When
reversing direction with the trim motor the brackets twist a bit
before there is movement. This means that when flying and
changing trim direction nothing will happen for a second or two.
This could be a nuisance when trying to accurately set the trim.
Has anyone else noticed this problem and what was your solution?
For the folks that are flying; is this a problem?
Thanks in advance.
John, A230
Cockpit module installed
Message 5
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| Subject: | Europa Subject Lines |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Gidday,
I must admit I am no longer interested in e-mails with simple subject
lines, single words etc. , at least lets prefix with Europa. The trash can
gets them all these days, even if the recipient is known, because I don't
know if they have intentionally sent out such a titled message, or their
e-mail address book has been nabbed by someone else.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger (possibly convertible)
Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected
Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed
Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted
Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided)
Instrumentation: Undecided
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Pitch trim damper |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! John.
No the problem you envisage isn't a problem in practice.
However I do have another which is most disconcerting.
Occassionally the pitch trim motor doesn't reverse immediately and has to be
motored further in it's current direction, some times to the full trim stop
position before it will reverse.?
It has been back to the American outfit but they never isolated the fault.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Regards
Bob Harrison. G-PTAG
----- Original Message -----
From: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
>
> Hello,
> I am setting up my pitch trim damper and noticed quite a bit
> of hysterisis (sp?) in the movement of the trim damper. When
> reversing direction with the trim motor the brackets twist a bit
> before there is movement. This means that when flying and
> changing trim direction nothing will happen for a second or two.
> This could be a nuisance when trying to accurately set the trim.
> Has anyone else noticed this problem and what was your solution?
> For the folks that are flying; is this a problem?
>
> Thanks in advance.
> John, A230
> Cockpit module installed
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Wing assembly question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" <bberube@tampabay.rr.com>
Jeff,
Do not assume that you even have holes in the spar for the bellcrank.
Early XS spars did not have the holes drilled. You should be able to
See the hole if there is one by putting a light on the opposite side.
Regards,
Bob Berube N166BB Conventional (Flying)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John & Amy
Eckel
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing assembly question
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Jeff,
As I recall I could see the hole through the fiberglass.
If you can't see through because you used peel ply paint
over that area with some epoxy and it should become clear
enough to see through.
John, A230
--- Original Message -----
From: "Rocketman" <topglock@cox.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Wing assembly question
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
>
> I'm in the process of installing the hardware in the starboard wing, and
> am a little stumped. The manual calls for opening a 1/4" hole, near the
> main pin bushing, closest to the first wing rib, that is suppose to be
> covered over. This hole is to mount the quick connect bellcrank. My
> assumption is that the hole should be above the centerline of the
> bushing and to the rib side. I measured the dimensions, given in the
> manual, and drilled a small pilot hole, hoping to find the factrory
> drilled hole. I didn't find any open hollows, that indicated that there
> was an existing hole. My question is, before I drill the larger hole
> and counter bore, am I drilling in the right place? Thanks for any
> clearification...
>
> --
> Jeff
> Tri-Gear N55XS
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Pitch trim damper |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Bob
If I had a problem like that, I would suspect the switching circuit the
powers the motor. The way it is built, there is NOTHING inside the motor to
make it go one way or the other. It is the polarity of the voltage on the
two white wires that do the work.
Check out your switch.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison"
<ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
>
> Hi! John.
> No the problem you envisage isn't a problem in practice.
> However I do have another which is most disconcerting.
> Occassionally the pitch trim motor doesn't reverse immediately and has to
be
> motored further in it's current direction, some times to the full trim
stop
> position before it will reverse.?
> It has been back to the American outfit but they never isolated the fault.
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Regards
> Bob Harrison. G-PTAG
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
> To: "Europa Forum" <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel"
<eckel1@comcast.net>
> >
> > Hello,
> > I am setting up my pitch trim damper and noticed quite a bit
> > of hysterisis (sp?) in the movement of the trim damper. When
> > reversing direction with the trim motor the brackets twist a bit
> > before there is movement. This means that when flying and
> > changing trim direction nothing will happen for a second or two.
> > This could be a nuisance when trying to accurately set the trim.
> > Has anyone else noticed this problem and what was your solution?
> > For the folks that are flying; is this a problem?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> > John, A230
> > Cockpit module installed
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wing assembly question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
Robert Berube wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" <bberube@tampabay.rr.com>
>
>Jeff,
>Do not assume that you even have holes in the spar for the bellcrank.
>Early XS spars did not have the holes drilled. You should be able to
>See the hole if there is one by putting a light on the opposite side.
>Regards,
>Bob Berube N166BB Conventional (Flying)
>
>
Bob,
That's what I came to believe. I tried the lights, the pilot drilling,
etc. Finally decided to give it a try and drilled the hole. Mounted
the bellcrank and everything worked out fine. This particular spar had
been finished out be the previous owner. Did find that the pushrod was
too close to the spar, at the aileron end and fashioned full length,
.063" spacers to take the bellcrank off the spar, just a bit. Worked
like a charm. I'll check the port wing for the holes, before finishing
it out. Thanks for the comments, everyone...
Jeff
N55XS - Tri Gear
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Pitch trim damper |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
John & Amy Eckel wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
>
>Hello,
>I am setting up my pitch trim damper and noticed quite a bit
>of hysterisis (sp?) in the movement of the trim damper. When
>reversing direction with the trim motor the brackets twist a bit
>before there is movement. This means that when flying and
>changing trim direction nothing will happen for a second or two.
>This could be a nuisance when trying to accurately set the trim.
>Has anyone else noticed this problem and what was your solution?
>For the folks that are flying; is this a problem?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>John, A230
>Cockpit module installed
>
>
>
John,
I finally got my trim system fully installed and tested, today. I did
note that the system was a bit slow, however the bellcrank/bulkhead
assembly moved/torqued only slightly. My guess is that this will
stiffen up when the upper half of the fuselage is installed. The demo
ride I took showed no symptoms of slow trimming.
Jeff
N55XS
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Pitch trim damper |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Hi John,
I was just out in the shop and ran the trim motor using the battery from my
Makita drill and it seemed to move smoothly in both directions without
hesitation. You might want to check to make sure that the two nuts (one locking
and
the other an aircraft nut) on either side of the bellcrank arm are tight. That
might cause some bending, but other than that, if everything else is snug, I
can't seem to figure what could be causing the twisting.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Tailwheel complete. Wing pins and
tie bar installed. Working on baggage bay. Conventional gear assembled and soon
to be fitted.
But Sun-N-Fun comes soon!
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
I have arranged for a forum at SNF for Europa builders & pilots. It is Sunday
at 11:00am. It will be an open session like most other kit builder forums. Plan
to attend if you're available.
Jim & Heather Butcher
A185 N241BW
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Pitch trim damper |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Cliff.
Thanks for the message I'll investigate further, however the manufacturers
did lead me to believe that when the motor reaches the end stop it then will
only motor back with the reversed current. This seemed to me to indicate
that the stop was a limiting switch and the problem was at the motor. I have
a panel mounted trim switch AND a stick top switch with an automatic
changeover relay deck, both supplied by the motor suppliers.... Menzimer.
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
>
> Bob
>
> If I had a problem like that, I would suspect the switching circuit the
> powers the motor. The way it is built, there is NOTHING inside the motor
to
> make it go one way or the other. It is the polarity of the voltage on the
> two white wires that do the work.
>
> Check out your switch.
>
> Cliff Shaw
> 1041 Euclid ave.
> Edmonds, WA 98020
> 425 776 5555
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison"
> <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
> >
> > Hi! John.
> > No the problem you envisage isn't a problem in practice.
> > However I do have another which is most disconcerting.
> > Occassionally the pitch trim motor doesn't reverse immediately and has
to
> be
> > motored further in it's current direction, some times to the full trim
> stop
> > position before it will reverse.?
> > It has been back to the American outfit but they never isolated the
fault.
> > Does anyone have any suggestions?
> >
> > Regards
> > Bob Harrison. G-PTAG
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
> > To: "Europa Forum" <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper
> >
> >
> > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel"
> <eckel1@comcast.net>
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > I am setting up my pitch trim damper and noticed quite a bit
> > > of hysterisis (sp?) in the movement of the trim damper. When
> > > reversing direction with the trim motor the brackets twist a bit
> > > before there is movement. This means that when flying and
> > > changing trim direction nothing will happen for a second or two.
> > > This could be a nuisance when trying to accurately set the trim.
> > > Has anyone else noticed this problem and what was your solution?
> > > For the folks that are flying; is this a problem?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > > John, A230
> > > Cockpit module installed
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Pitch trim damper |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi Bob
>Occassionally the pitch trim motor doesn't reverse immediately and has to
be
motored further in it's current direction, some times to the full trim stop
position before it will reverse.?
It has been back to the American outfit but they never isolated the fault.
Does anyone have any suggestions?<
You may find it is a contact problem in the relay box.
Nigel Charles
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