---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/02/04: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:02 AM - Wing assembly question (Rocketman) 2. 09:00 AM - Re: Wing assembly question (John & Amy Eckel) 3. 09:46 AM - Re: Wing assembly question (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 4. 01:53 PM - Pitch trim damper (John & Amy Eckel) 5. 02:26 PM - Europa Subject Lines (Tony Renshaw) 6. 03:13 PM - Re: Pitch trim damper (R.C.Harrison) 7. 05:02 PM - Re: Wing assembly question (Robert Berube) 8. 05:41 PM - Re: Pitch trim damper (Cliff Shaw) 9. 05:49 PM - Re: Wing assembly question (Rocketman) 10. 05:56 PM - Re: Pitch trim damper (Rocketman) 11. 07:19 PM - Re: Pitch trim damper (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 12. 07:20 PM - SNF Forum (Jim Butcher) 13. 08:21 PM - Re: Pitch trim damper (R.C.Harrison) 14. 11:09 PM - Re: Pitch trim damper (nigel charles) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:59 AM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Europa-List: Wing assembly question --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman I'm in the process of installing the hardware in the starboard wing, and am a little stumped. The manual calls for opening a 1/4" hole, near the main pin bushing, closest to the first wing rib, that is suppose to be covered over. This hole is to mount the quick connect bellcrank. My assumption is that the hole should be above the centerline of the bushing and to the rib side. I measured the dimensions, given in the manual, and drilled a small pilot hole, hoping to find the factrory drilled hole. I didn't find any open hollows, that indicated that there was an existing hole. My question is, before I drill the larger hole and counter bore, am I drilling in the right place? Thanks for any clearification... -- Jeff Tri-Gear N55XS ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:03 AM PST US From: "John & Amy Eckel" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing assembly question --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" Jeff, As I recall I could see the hole through the fiberglass. If you can't see through because you used peel ply paint over that area with some epoxy and it should become clear enough to see through. John, A230 --- Original Message ----- From: "Rocketman" Subject: Europa-List: Wing assembly question > --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman > > I'm in the process of installing the hardware in the starboard wing, and > am a little stumped. The manual calls for opening a 1/4" hole, near the > main pin bushing, closest to the first wing rib, that is suppose to be > covered over. This hole is to mount the quick connect bellcrank. My > assumption is that the hole should be above the centerline of the > bushing and to the rib side. I measured the dimensions, given in the > manual, and drilled a small pilot hole, hoping to find the factrory > drilled hole. I didn't find any open hollows, that indicated that there > was an existing hole. My question is, before I drill the larger hole > and counter bore, am I drilling in the right place? Thanks for any > clearification... > > -- > Jeff > Tri-Gear N55XS > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:36 AM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing assembly question --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Jeff, I did a quick measurement of my starboard wing bellcrank placement. The center of the bolt on mine measures approx. 2.5" from the wing rib and 2.3" from the top of the spar. I also had a pilot hole in my wing. Have you done the layups from the wing rib to the spar? If so you may have covered the hole. Or have you removed the peel ply that the factory lays up onto the wing rib? That is a big problem for some people that have missed that step or thought that there wasn't any put on because it was not obvious with red strips and all. If all these are OK then you might try running a flashlight from one side of the spar while you look for the hole on the other side. Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Tailwheel complete. Wing pins and tie bar installed. Working on baggage bay. Conventional gear assembled and soon to be fitted. But Sun-N-Fun comes soon! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:44 PM PST US From: "John & Amy Eckel" Subject: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" Hello, I am setting up my pitch trim damper and noticed quite a bit of hysterisis (sp?) in the movement of the trim damper. When reversing direction with the trim motor the brackets twist a bit before there is movement. This means that when flying and changing trim direction nothing will happen for a second or two. This could be a nuisance when trying to accurately set the trim. Has anyone else noticed this problem and what was your solution? For the folks that are flying; is this a problem? Thanks in advance. John, A230 Cockpit module installed ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:26:37 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Europa Subject Lines --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Gidday, I must admit I am no longer interested in e-mails with simple subject lines, single words etc. , at least lets prefix with Europa. The trash can gets them all these days, even if the recipient is known, because I don't know if they have intentionally sent out such a titled message, or their e-mail address book has been nabbed by someone else. Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger (possibly convertible) Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided) Instrumentation: Undecided ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:13:45 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! John. No the problem you envisage isn't a problem in practice. However I do have another which is most disconcerting. Occassionally the pitch trim motor doesn't reverse immediately and has to be motored further in it's current direction, some times to the full trim stop position before it will reverse.? It has been back to the American outfit but they never isolated the fault. Does anyone have any suggestions? Regards Bob Harrison. G-PTAG ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Amy Eckel" Subject: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper > --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" > > Hello, > I am setting up my pitch trim damper and noticed quite a bit > of hysterisis (sp?) in the movement of the trim damper. When > reversing direction with the trim motor the brackets twist a bit > before there is movement. This means that when flying and > changing trim direction nothing will happen for a second or two. > This could be a nuisance when trying to accurately set the trim. > Has anyone else noticed this problem and what was your solution? > For the folks that are flying; is this a problem? > > Thanks in advance. > John, A230 > Cockpit module installed > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:14 PM PST US From: "Robert Berube" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing assembly question --> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" Jeff, Do not assume that you even have holes in the spar for the bellcrank. Early XS spars did not have the holes drilled. You should be able to See the hole if there is one by putting a light on the opposite side. Regards, Bob Berube N166BB Conventional (Flying) -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John & Amy Eckel Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing assembly question --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" Jeff, As I recall I could see the hole through the fiberglass. If you can't see through because you used peel ply paint over that area with some epoxy and it should become clear enough to see through. John, A230 --- Original Message ----- From: "Rocketman" Subject: Europa-List: Wing assembly question > --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman > > I'm in the process of installing the hardware in the starboard wing, and > am a little stumped. The manual calls for opening a 1/4" hole, near the > main pin bushing, closest to the first wing rib, that is suppose to be > covered over. This hole is to mount the quick connect bellcrank. My > assumption is that the hole should be above the centerline of the > bushing and to the rib side. I measured the dimensions, given in the > manual, and drilled a small pilot hole, hoping to find the factrory > drilled hole. I didn't find any open hollows, that indicated that there > was an existing hole. My question is, before I drill the larger hole > and counter bore, am I drilling in the right place? Thanks for any > clearification... > > -- > Jeff > Tri-Gear N55XS > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:10 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Bob If I had a problem like that, I would suspect the switching circuit the powers the motor. The way it is built, there is NOTHING inside the motor to make it go one way or the other. It is the polarity of the voltage on the two white wires that do the work. Check out your switch. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > > Hi! John. > No the problem you envisage isn't a problem in practice. > However I do have another which is most disconcerting. > Occassionally the pitch trim motor doesn't reverse immediately and has to be > motored further in it's current direction, some times to the full trim stop > position before it will reverse.? > It has been back to the American outfit but they never isolated the fault. > Does anyone have any suggestions? > > Regards > Bob Harrison. G-PTAG > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John & Amy Eckel" > To: "Europa Forum" > Subject: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" > > > > Hello, > > I am setting up my pitch trim damper and noticed quite a bit > > of hysterisis (sp?) in the movement of the trim damper. When > > reversing direction with the trim motor the brackets twist a bit > > before there is movement. This means that when flying and > > changing trim direction nothing will happen for a second or two. > > This could be a nuisance when trying to accurately set the trim. > > Has anyone else noticed this problem and what was your solution? > > For the folks that are flying; is this a problem? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > John, A230 > > Cockpit module installed > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:57 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing assembly question --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman Robert Berube wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" > >Jeff, >Do not assume that you even have holes in the spar for the bellcrank. >Early XS spars did not have the holes drilled. You should be able to >See the hole if there is one by putting a light on the opposite side. >Regards, >Bob Berube N166BB Conventional (Flying) > > Bob, That's what I came to believe. I tried the lights, the pilot drilling, etc. Finally decided to give it a try and drilled the hole. Mounted the bellcrank and everything worked out fine. This particular spar had been finished out be the previous owner. Did find that the pushrod was too close to the spar, at the aileron end and fashioned full length, .063" spacers to take the bellcrank off the spar, just a bit. Worked like a charm. I'll check the port wing for the holes, before finishing it out. Thanks for the comments, everyone... Jeff N55XS - Tri Gear ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:05 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman John & Amy Eckel wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" > >Hello, >I am setting up my pitch trim damper and noticed quite a bit >of hysterisis (sp?) in the movement of the trim damper. When >reversing direction with the trim motor the brackets twist a bit >before there is movement. This means that when flying and >changing trim direction nothing will happen for a second or two. >This could be a nuisance when trying to accurately set the trim. >Has anyone else noticed this problem and what was your solution? >For the folks that are flying; is this a problem? > >Thanks in advance. >John, A230 >Cockpit module installed > > > John, I finally got my trim system fully installed and tested, today. I did note that the system was a bit slow, however the bellcrank/bulkhead assembly moved/torqued only slightly. My guess is that this will stiffen up when the upper half of the fuselage is installed. The demo ride I took showed no symptoms of slow trimming. Jeff N55XS ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:48 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Hi John, I was just out in the shop and ran the trim motor using the battery from my Makita drill and it seemed to move smoothly in both directions without hesitation. You might want to check to make sure that the two nuts (one locking and the other an aircraft nut) on either side of the bellcrank arm are tight. That might cause some bending, but other than that, if everything else is snug, I can't seem to figure what could be causing the twisting. Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Tailwheel complete. Wing pins and tie bar installed. Working on baggage bay. Conventional gear assembled and soon to be fitted. But Sun-N-Fun comes soon! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:26 PM PST US From: "Jim Butcher" Subject: Europa-List: SNF Forum --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" I have arranged for a forum at SNF for Europa builders & pilots. It is Sunday at 11:00am. It will be an open session like most other kit builder forums. Plan to attend if you're available. Jim & Heather Butcher A185 N241BW ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:17 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Cliff. Thanks for the message I'll investigate further, however the manufacturers did lead me to believe that when the motor reaches the end stop it then will only motor back with the reversed current. This seemed to me to indicate that the stop was a limiting switch and the problem was at the motor. I have a panel mounted trim switch AND a stick top switch with an automatic changeover relay deck, both supplied by the motor suppliers.... Menzimer. Regards Bob H G-PTAG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" > > Bob > > If I had a problem like that, I would suspect the switching circuit the > powers the motor. The way it is built, there is NOTHING inside the motor to > make it go one way or the other. It is the polarity of the voltage on the > two white wires that do the work. > > Check out your switch. > > Cliff Shaw > 1041 Euclid ave. > Edmonds, WA 98020 > 425 776 5555 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "R.C.Harrison" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > > > > > Hi! John. > > No the problem you envisage isn't a problem in practice. > > However I do have another which is most disconcerting. > > Occassionally the pitch trim motor doesn't reverse immediately and has to > be > > motored further in it's current direction, some times to the full trim > stop > > position before it will reverse.? > > It has been back to the American outfit but they never isolated the fault. > > Does anyone have any suggestions? > > > > Regards > > Bob Harrison. G-PTAG > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John & Amy Eckel" > > To: "Europa Forum" > > Subject: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" > > > > > > > Hello, > > > I am setting up my pitch trim damper and noticed quite a bit > > > of hysterisis (sp?) in the movement of the trim damper. When > > > reversing direction with the trim motor the brackets twist a bit > > > before there is movement. This means that when flying and > > > changing trim direction nothing will happen for a second or two. > > > This could be a nuisance when trying to accurately set the trim. > > > Has anyone else noticed this problem and what was your solution? > > > For the folks that are flying; is this a problem? > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > John, A230 > > > Cockpit module installed > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:36 PM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch trim damper --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" Hi Bob >Occassionally the pitch trim motor doesn't reverse immediately and has to be motored further in it's current direction, some times to the full trim stop position before it will reverse.? It has been back to the American outfit but they never isolated the fault. Does anyone have any suggestions?< You may find it is a contact problem in the relay box. Nigel Charles