Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:38 AM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (John Cliff)
2. 02:45 AM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (Richard Holder)
3. 04:21 AM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (GT)
4. 07:22 AM - Replacement fuel pipe (David Corbett)
5. 10:06 AM - Re: Batteries (J. R. Jones)
6. 10:33 AM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (nigel charles)
7. 10:33 AM - Re: Batteries (nigel charles)
8. 11:15 AM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (Richard Holder)
9. 12:53 PM - Flying to Serbia-Croatia (Gerry Holland)
10. 01:30 PM - Re: Replacement fuel pipe (Jeff Roberts)
11. 01:39 PM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (GT)
12. 03:52 PM - Cutting BID and making wingtips. (was Flexible Sanding Medium) (Rocketman)
13. 06:16 PM - Re: Replacement fuel pipe (n3eu@comcast.net)
14. 06:54 PM - Re: Cutting BID and making wingtips. (was Flexible Sanding Medium) (John & Amy Eckel)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff" <mx@crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
> I've used #10 gauge.
..............
> This earthing wire is the negative RETURN PATH for the alternator
> current. Same gauge as the POSITIVE WIRE.
> Must be capable of sustaining 20-25 amps.
Thanks, chaps. With no description of the action of the 'regulator' (which is
clearly not the same as one for a wound-field alternator), it was not obvious
whether the return path was via the engine ground or the regulator casing.
John Cliff
#0259
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
>> This earthing wire is the negative RETURN PATH for the alternator
>> current. Same gauge as the POSITIVE WIRE.
>> Must be capable of sustaining 20-25 amps.
Would someone like to explain this ?
The Rotax Installation manual just shows an earth connection for the
regulator body. No sizes, no critical comment.
There are two alternator wires which go to the regulator. Both are positive.
The circuit is completed via the alternator body and thus the engine earth.
The 12v output from the regulator goes to the positive buss and thence to
the battery plus. From the positive buss all the avionics are connected and
they have earths that meet back at the engine body, as does the battery
earth.
I'm not saying the comment "This earthing wire is the negative RETURN PATH
for the alternator current" is wrong but it doesn't accord with my
understanding of how it works. Can you explain it please ?
>
> Thanks, chaps. With no description of the action of the 'regulator' (which is
> clearly not the same as one for a wound-field alternator), it was not obvious
> whether the return path was via the engine ground or the regulator casing.
TIA
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, EGSG (Stapleford)
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "GT" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Richard,
The following comments apply toi the Rotax 912/914 INTERNAL alternator and
standard regulator. We've been performing extensive measurements on the
Rotax alternator and regulator.
> Would someone like to explain this ?
>
> The Rotax Installation manual just shows an earth connection for the
> regulator body. No sizes, no critical comment.
>
> There are two alternator wires which go to the regulator. Both are
positive.
Not so. Alternator wires are ALTERNATIVE leads. Both go to the
rectifier/regulator. All those I've seen to date are yellow. On the Rotax
diagram they have the little "tilde" symbol.
> The circuit is completed via the alternator body and thus the engine
earth.
>
Not so : the alternator has NO electrical connection to the engine or
airframe ground/earth.
> The 12v output from the regulator goes to the positive buss and thence to
> the battery plus. From the positive buss all the avionics are connected
and
> they have earths that meet back at the engine body, as does the battery
> earth.
The regulators feeds the whole ship's circuit. Every single charge leaving
the regulator through the POSITIVE wire (B+ and R terminals)must go back to
the regulator via the NEGATIVE ground connection at the regulator. In other
words, the circuit from and to the regulator must be CLOSED for the
regulator to feed any electricity at all to the airplane -pardon me,
aeroplane ;-)
>
> I'm not saying the comment "This earthing wire is the negative RETURN PATH
> for the alternator current" is wrong
Nice of you, mon ami ;-)
Due to the poor service record of the regulator, we've been conducting a
thorough thermal investigation, with an actual Rotax alternator driven by an
electric motor in a test bed at the Grenoble University. I stripped a couple
of failed regulators and we analysed their working. By the way, we found the
installation of the big capacitor is MANDATORY.
but it doesn't accord with my
> understanding of how it works. Can you explain it please ?
The nice thing with direct current circuits is that you can easily follow
the current path on the diagrams. Just trace the current path from the B+
and R terminals, and figure out the way it takes to come back to the
regulator.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
Message 4
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| Subject: | Replacement fuel pipe |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Corbett" <David.Corbett@fwi.co.uk>
I am doing my third Permit renewal and I want to replace the original "black" Europa
fuel pipe material.
Within the past month there has been discussion on the forum about this and suggestions
have been made that there is an automotive fuel pipe that is a better
alternative; I think that part numbers quoted were for US pipe?
Can anyone help me with the correct UK part number for a suitable automotive pipe
- and is it better than Europa can supply at the present time?
Many thanks,
David
G-BZAM
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "J. R. Jones" <jronjones@lineone.net>
Mike,
I have a Hawker, 14ah battery which weighs 5 kgs and cranks my 912S like
crazy!
It has been on the aeroplane for 21/2 years and has never failed to start it
so I cannot fault it.
It is fitted under the cowling on the passenger side - which means very
short leads.
Sorry but I can't quote the part number unless I take a look at it!
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ron Jones. (XSNo.359. G-RJWX)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
> There are two alternator wires which go to the regulator. Both are
positive.
>>Not so. Alternator wires are ALTERNATIVE leads. Both go to the
rectifier/regulator. All those I've seen to date are yellow. On the Rotax
diagram they have the little "tilde" symbol.<<
I am no expert on this but perhaps I can explain how I see it. As far as I
can tell the two alternator yellow leads produce AC which is rectified by
the regulator before going through the rest of the regulator circuitry. As
all the AC power produced by the yellow alternator wires enters the
regulator then its DC output can be seen as though the regulator and
alternator combined are a DC generator. As such this 'generator' has to have
a return back to the regulator case capable of handling it maximum output.
With that in mind the use of 10 gauge cable as a minimum size is probably a
wise precaution. Certainly if I had 20gauge cable I would look at upgrading
to 10gauge just for piece of mind (new regulators are not cheap).
Nigel Charles
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
>Now that many builders are into the flying stage I was wondering about the
results of people's decision on the brand of battery for their aircraft? Not
the
position, but whether the battery has performed as expected. Any let downs
or
"next time I'll get XYZ battery"?<
I think that most of us who have elected to use an RG battery have been very
pleased with our purchases. Whether any one make is better than any other
only time will tell. After the discussion about starting performance I would
not consider anything other than an RG battery.
As well as the particular product it is very important that the battery is
given the proper care. It seems that RG batteries prefer a different type of
charger so that their charging is not a continual trickle charge (see Jim
Weir's series of articles in recent issues of Kitplanes). This of course is
only relevant if the aircraft is not flown for a month or two. Also as these
batteries are very expensive an external battery for cold starts will
improve their lifespan.
Nigel Charles
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
> I am no expert on this but perhaps I can explain how I see it. As far as I
> can tell the two alternator yellow leads produce AC which is rectified by
> the regulator before going through the rest of the regulator circuitry. As
> all the AC power produced by the yellow alternator wires enters the
> regulator then its DC output can be seen as though the regulator and
> alternator combined are a DC generator. As such this 'generator' has to have
> a return back to the regulator case capable of handling it maximum output.
> With that in mind the use of 10 gauge cable as a minimum size is probably a
> wise precaution. Certainly if I had 20gauge cable I would look at upgrading
> to 10gauge just for piece of mind (new regulators are not cheap).
I had assumed that the earth from the regulator (I see now that it is called
a rectifier-regulator) was just something to provide an earth reference.
Mine is just 22 AWG. Nothing, anywhere, shows that it needs a large cable to
complete the circuit.
I will be changing it very very soon to 10 AWG (12 would be OK - will take
24 amps)
It might explain the somewhat inconsistent readings on my oil pressure and
oil and water temperature gauges. My 22 AWG is acting as a resistor when
carrying 10 amps or more.
I suppose the rectifier-regulator is really designed for bolting to the
chassis of a metal aircraft/motor bike. For our purposes it should have a
proper faston tag for the earth, just like all the other connections. Ring
connectors are more subject to corrosion.
Richard - still learning !
As a matter of interest I am looking for a co-owner for G-OWWW, Someone with
a mechanical bent/interest/knowledge of Europas. A deal could be negotiated.
Someone who lives in East Herts or West Essex would be best. If anyone is
interested, or knows anyone who might be interested, please contact me
initially on this email address, off list.
rholder@avnet.co.uk
Richard Holder
Message 9
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| Subject: | Flying to Serbia-Croatia |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
In case anyone is planning to fly to Croatia or Serbia in the summer I'd
like to let you know that I have a good friend in Belgrade who would be
happy to help or assist if any problems do occur or you need any arrival
advice.
Croatia is a fairly relaxed destination, Serbia fairly similar although you
need to land in Belgrade prior to flying to any internal Airfield to show
credentials.
Please contact me at gnholland@onetel.com off forum for further details of
Serbian contact.
I will be in Serbia in early June and will catalogue some interesting
destinations. The Country is quite different as a destination and fairly
basic in amenities out of Belgrade.
Regards
Gerry
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Trigear with Rotax 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
Engine and Prop getting Final fit. Fuel, Oil and Coolant added very soon
Fuselage painted, Wings completed next week, Flying surfaces painted
Airframe Wiring complete, Full Size Panel 70% done .
Includes Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder. AoA Fitted.
Completion of Panel, Designing Heater Unit, Shoulder Width Mod completed.
http://www.g-fizy.com
+44 7808 402404
gnholland@onetel.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Replacement fuel pipe |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff Roberts <jeff@rmmm.net>
on 5/8/04 9:30 AM, David Corbett at David.Corbett@fwi.co.uk wrote:
David,
The automotive line here in the USA that Europa is promoting is Fuel
injector line. Very flexable and easy to work with but it's high price line
at about $5.00 a foot.
Hope this helps.
Jeff
A258
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Corbett" <David.Corbett@fwi.co.uk>
>
> I am doing my third Permit renewal and I want to replace the original "black"
> Europa fuel pipe material.
>
> Within the past month there has been discussion on the forum about this and
> suggestions have been made that there is an automotive fuel pipe that is a
> better alternative; I think that part numbers quoted were for US pipe?
>
> Can anyone help me with the correct UK part number for a suitable automotive
> pipe - and is it better than Europa can supply at the present time?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> David
>
> G-BZAM
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "GT" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> I am no expert on this but perhaps I can explain how I see it. As far as I
> can tell the two alternator yellow leads produce AC which is rectified by
> the regulator before going through the rest of the regulator circuitry. As
> all the AC power produced by the yellow alternator wires enters the
> regulator then its DC output can be seen as though the regulator and
> alternator combined are a DC generator.
Hi Nigel,
After re-reading my initial message I think my initial statement was
unclear.
Your message clarifies things. I should have written "regulator current"
instead of "alternator current".
Thanks for making things clearer,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
Message 12
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| Subject: | Cutting BID and making wingtips. (was Flexible Sanding Medium) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
John & Amy Eckel wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
>
>Jeff,
>Thanks for sharing your pictures with us. I noticed in one picture that
>your
>wife is cutting strips of glass to make small pieces which I assume are to
>make
>up 2 inch wide pieces.
>A while back I was shown a method for doing this that has made it easier
>for me.
>If the plans call for a piece 2 inches wide by 10 inches long I draw that
>size on a piece of 2 mill plastic drop cloth with a Sharpie marker. I then
>turn the plastic over or the ink will be dissolved by the epoxy in the next
>step. I lay a piece of glass on the plastic and then put epoxy on it. I
>next
>squeegee off the excess epoxy and cut the shape with a rotary fabric cutter.
>I am using an OLFA, your wife will probably know. Pick the piece up with
>the plastic still attached and put it where needed, plastic side up of
>course.
>Once in place peel the plastic off and do the final fitting with a brush.
>Any time I have to put BID in place I wet it and cut it to size first.
>
>If I have to make multiple layers I either put several layers on the plastic
>before
>wetting, or make single layers and place one on top of the other while still
>on
>the bench. Also, when several 2 X ? tapes have to be made I draw several
>at a time and then just cut on the lines to make the individual parts.
>
>Hope this helps meet your one year target.
>
>John, A230
>
John,
Thanks for the information. Since that picture, we have discovered the
wonderful world of "Vis-queen" (plastic) and the razor knife. We simply
layout the BID on the plastic, coat with epoxy and cut with the razor
knife. Very neat and clean. Once the material is in place, strip off
the plastic and blend with a brush. Almost exactly as you have
recommended. As the Russian cosmonaut, from the movie 2010, would say,
easy as cake... :)
On another note, I started working with the wingtip lighting, today.
I'll be trying my hand at molding my own tips. Design is fairly simple
and hopefully will work for the tips. I have three materials that I
want to try. One is simple plexiglass. The others are PTFE and
polycarbonate. I'll let everyone know how the experiment works. I just
hate springing for $60 USD, each for clear tips...
--
Jeff - A055
Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Replacement fuel pipe |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
> The automotive line here in the USA that Europa is promoting is Fuel
> injector line. Very flexable and easy to work with but it's high price line
> at about $5.00 a foot.
Low pressure, automotive fuel hose is a lot cheaper than that, and what I used.
I had thought "injector" hose is unique only in the high pressure it
carries. Highest I've seen so far is 60psi per service manual for my latest
new car. Is there any other difference? Carries the same fuel.
Regards,
Fred F.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting BID and making wingtips. (was Flexible Sanding |
Medium)
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Jeff,
Look at some model airplane sites, such as the AMA. You may find
an article on vacuum forming plastic.
John
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rocketman" <topglock@cox.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Cutting BID and making wingtips. (was Flexible Sanding
Medium)
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
>
> John & Amy Eckel wrote:
>
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel"
<eckel1@comcast.net>
> >
> >Jeff,
> >Thanks for sharing your pictures with us. I noticed in one picture that
> >your
> >wife is cutting strips of glass to make small pieces which I assume are
to
> >make
> >up 2 inch wide pieces.
> >A while back I was shown a method for doing this that has made it easier
> >for me.
> >If the plans call for a piece 2 inches wide by 10 inches long I draw that
> >size on a piece of 2 mill plastic drop cloth with a Sharpie marker. I
then
> >turn the plastic over or the ink will be dissolved by the epoxy in the
next
> >step. I lay a piece of glass on the plastic and then put epoxy on it. I
> >next
> >squeegee off the excess epoxy and cut the shape with a rotary fabric
cutter.
> >I am using an OLFA, your wife will probably know. Pick the piece up with
> >the plastic still attached and put it where needed, plastic side up of
> >course.
> >Once in place peel the plastic off and do the final fitting with a brush.
> >Any time I have to put BID in place I wet it and cut it to size first.
> >
> >If I have to make multiple layers I either put several layers on the
plastic
> >before
> >wetting, or make single layers and place one on top of the other while
still
> >on
> >the bench. Also, when several 2 X ? tapes have to be made I draw several
> >at a time and then just cut on the lines to make the individual parts.
> >
> >Hope this helps meet your one year target.
> >
> >John, A230
> >
>
> John,
>
> Thanks for the information. Since that picture, we have discovered the
> wonderful world of "Vis-queen" (plastic) and the razor knife. We simply
> layout the BID on the plastic, coat with epoxy and cut with the razor
> knife. Very neat and clean. Once the material is in place, strip off
> the plastic and blend with a brush. Almost exactly as you have
> recommended. As the Russian cosmonaut, from the movie 2010, would say,
> easy as cake... :)
>
> On another note, I started working with the wingtip lighting, today.
> I'll be trying my hand at molding my own tips. Design is fairly simple
> and hopefully will work for the tips. I have three materials that I
> want to try. One is simple plexiglass. The others are PTFE and
> polycarbonate. I'll let everyone know how the experiment works. I just
> hate springing for $60 USD, each for clear tips...
>
> --
> Jeff - A055
> Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com
>
>
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