---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/09/04: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:32 AM - Re: Replacement fuel pipe (Duncan McFadyean) 2. 01:48 AM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (Duncan McFadyean) 3. 02:02 AM - Re: Digitrak AP (Duncan McFadyean) 4. 02:12 AM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (Richard Holder) 5. 04:44 AM - wingtip light covers (Graham Singleton) 6. 04:47 AM - Windscreen Conduits (Tony Renshaw) 7. 07:30 AM - Re: Aerobatics (Fergus Kyle) 8. 09:54 AM - Micro-mesh treatment of windscreen scratches (Alan Stewart) 9. 11:47 AM - Re: Micro-mesh treatment of windscreen scratches (Rob Housman) 10. 01:02 PM - Re: Micro-mesh treatment of windscreen scratches (Cliff Shaw) 11. 03:33 PM - Re: Micro-mesh treatment of windscreen scratches (Bill Henderson) 12. 05:39 PM - Re: wingtip light covers (Rocketman) 13. 05:39 PM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (Kingsley Hurst) 14. 06:52 PM - Re: wingtip light covers () 15. 08:02 PM - Monroy ADT-300 Traffic Detector (Fabian Lefler) 16. 08:54 PM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (n3eu@comcast.net) 17. 09:55 PM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (Kingsley Hurst) 18. 10:27 PM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (Kingsley Hurst) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:35 AM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Replacement fuel pipe --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" "Injection" fuel hose has a thin flexible layer (or "lacquering") of fluoro-elastomer on the bore, which provides exceptional resistance both to 'sour' petrol and to some of the nastier additives in unleaded Mogas. Hence its terrible cost. Any hose compliant to SAEJ30 R9 should have this. Thinking aloud, this hose would probably be less permeable to fuel VAPOUR and smell less on the exterior. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Replacement fuel pipe > --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net > > > The automotive line here in the USA that Europa is promoting is Fuel > > injector line. Very flexable and easy to work with but it's high price line > > at about $5.00 a foot. > > Low pressure, automotive fuel hose is a lot cheaper than that, and what I used. I had thought "injector" hose is unique only in the high pressure it > carries. Highest I've seen so far is 60psi per service manual for my latest > new car. Is there any other difference? Carries the same fuel. > > Regards, > Fred F. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:17 AM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Regulator Wiring --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" The wire size called out by the Rotax manual for 'current-carrying' regulator connections is 2.5mm2; which is somewhere between 12g (3.35mm2) and 14g (2.08mm2). Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Regulator Wiring > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > > > I am no expert on this but perhaps I can explain how I see it. As far as I > > can tell the two alternator yellow leads produce AC which is rectified by > > the regulator before going through the rest of the regulator circuitry. As > > all the AC power produced by the yellow alternator wires enters the > > regulator then its DC output can be seen as though the regulator and > > alternator combined are a DC generator. As such this 'generator' has to have > > a return back to the regulator case capable of handling it maximum output. > > With that in mind the use of 10 gauge cable as a minimum size is probably a > > wise precaution. Certainly if I had 20gauge cable I would look at upgrading > > to 10gauge just for piece of mind (new regulators are not cheap). > > I had assumed that the earth from the regulator (I see now that it is called > a rectifier-regulator) was just something to provide an earth reference. > Mine is just 22 AWG. Nothing, anywhere, shows that it needs a large cable to > complete the circuit. > > I will be changing it very very soon to 10 AWG (12 would be OK - will take > 24 amps) > > It might explain the somewhat inconsistent readings on my oil pressure and > oil and water temperature gauges. My 22 AWG is acting as a resistor when > carrying 10 amps or more. > > I suppose the rectifier-regulator is really designed for bolting to the > chassis of a metal aircraft/motor bike. For our purposes it should have a > proper faston tag for the earth, just like all the other connections. Ring > connectors are more subject to corrosion. > > Richard - still learning ! > > As a matter of interest I am looking for a co-owner for G-OWWW, Someone with > a mechanical bent/interest/knowledge of Europas. A deal could be negotiated. > Someone who lives in East Herts or West Essex would be best. If anyone is > interested, or knows anyone who might be interested, please contact me > initially on this email address, off list. > > rholder@avnet.co.uk > > Richard Holder > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:12 AM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Digitrak AP --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" I'd like to hear (off forum) from whoever it was that kindly sent me a detail for the circuit of a warning light required by PFA for the above. There's a problem with it you should know about!. Duncan Mcf. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Regulator Wiring From: Richard Holder --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > > The wire size called out by the Rotax manual for 'current-carrying' > regulator connections is 2.5mm2; which is somewhere between 12g (3.35mm2) > and 14g (2.08mm2). > > Duncan McF. Sure - thanks. I will probably use 12AWG. But it was an easy mistake to make - NO-WHERE is that earth connection from the rectifier-regulator marked as being "high current carrying" or any similar term. It is in the installation manual as an earth, just like the earth to the starter solenoid. I rather expect it to improve the stability of my engine instruments when this earth is properly installed ! 12 or 14 amps through 22AWG will have heated it up a LOT ! And increased its resistance (I think) Richard Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, EGSG (Stapleford) PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:39 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: wingtip light covers --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton At 23:56 08/05/2004 -0700, you wrote: >On another note, I started working with the wingtip lighting, today. >I'll be trying my hand at molding my own tips. Design is fairly simple >and hopefully will work for the tips. I have three materials that I >want to try. One is simple plexiglass. The others are PTFE and >polycarbonate. I'll let everyone know how the experiment works. I just >hate springing for $60 USD, each for clear tips... Been there Jeff I made some covers with Paul McAllister. We can sell them at $79 a pair. Tom Froedland might still have a spare set? Graham ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:28 AM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Windscreen Conduits --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Gidday, I am working on my top, and am wondering if this is a good time to install a conduit forward of the door rebate and behind the windscreen. I know for ease of work this is the right time, and am wondering what ideas people have. I haven't checked the manual, but I believe the windscreen flange is cut back to 20 mm, or thereabouts, so I suppose I have as much as that to play with, considering I also need a small amount of flange remaining uncovered to attach trim to. So, any suggestions, please??? Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger (possibly convertible) Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided) Instrumentation: Undecided ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:54 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aerobatics --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aerobatics | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" | | Rowland, | | Europa Aircraft have published on there WEB site the following *Max takeoff | weight can be increased to 1,450lb in the USA only | This can be seen on the bottom the page at | http://www.europa-aircraft.com/Aircraft/EuropaXS.htm| | I assume that like the gallon, a pound in the US weights less :-)......| | Paul Now, Paul......... It may be that USA drivers, airborne, are so much smoother - that the G forces are applied well within the limits set by PFA - they, who recognize the attributes of the average UK lasher, airframe, better than we readers................. I don't want to cause any trouble, of course. Ferg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:57 AM PST US From: "Alan Stewart" Subject: Europa-List: Micro-mesh treatment of windscreen scratches --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stewart" Hi Guys, I had a few nasty scratches on the passenger side windshield on my classic Europa from hurried panel removal. Micro mesh seemed the obvious solution, and I'd been pre-warned it need a fair amount of time and elbow grease to obtain a desirable outcome. Well, after about 3 hours, and two or three attempts, the original scratches are nowhere to be seen ! In their place is the faint 'misting affect' of thousands of tiny scratches from the Micro mesh itself. Perhaps part of the problem is the curved shape of the affected area, and the difficulty of maintaining direction when polishing. Now, perhaps we just weren't determined enough, but we did try damn hard and its very frustrating. Does anyone have advice as to how to remove this affect ? It would've been great had we succeeded, and I'd have probably carried on to do the whole windshield. How do you get that finally sheen ? Is it worthwhile using another product to finish the job ? Would some mechanical device be more effective at keeping to a straight line ? Alan. D. Stewart _____ I've stopped 273 spam messages. You can too! Get your free, safe spam protection at www.cloudmark.com Cloudmark SpamNet - Join the fight against spam! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:59 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Micro-mesh treatment of windscreen scratches --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" Assuming that the product (with which I am not familiar) is sufficiently fine (on the order of one micron particle size) you should be able to polish to a specular finish with no visible haze or scratches, but technique does matter. Just as for the "color sanding" of the painted finish, optical polishing requires random motion such as you get when using an orbital sander. The other important technique is to apply pressure with an orbital sander or manual pad according to the "Goldilocks Rule" (not too much, not too little) which unfortunately is something to be determined by trial and error. There is also a possibility that you generated enough heat from friction to soften the plastic material, and if so try again with less pressure and allow time to cool after polishing for a short time. Check the temperature by feel - if it is too hot to touch it is just too hot. You should also expect to have an optical flaw in the polished area, because as you remove the scratches you will in effect distort the surface by changing its shape (after all, you are removing the material that surrounds the scratches in order to remove the scratches themselves). This unfortunately can not be avoided, and it is something I demonstrated in my own living room when I locally polished the surface of a glass coffee table for the same reason you are polishing your windscreen. The human eye is extremely unforgiving when it comes to optical defects. Best regards, Rob Housman Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete Irvine, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan Stewart Subject: Europa-List: Micro-mesh treatment of windscreen scratches --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stewart" Hi Guys, I had a few nasty scratches on the passenger side windshield on my classic Europa from hurried panel removal. Micro mesh seemed the obvious solution, and I'd been pre-warned it need a fair amount of time and elbow grease to obtain a desirable outcome. Well, after about 3 hours, and two or three attempts, the original scratches are nowhere to be seen ! In their place is the faint 'misting affect' of thousands of tiny scratches from the Micro mesh itself. Perhaps part of the problem is the curved shape of the affected area, and the difficulty of maintaining direction when polishing. Now, perhaps we just weren't determined enough, but we did try damn hard and its very frustrating. Does anyone have advice as to how to remove this affect ? It would've been great had we succeeded, and I'd have probably carried on to do the whole windshield. How do you get that finally sheen ? Is it worthwhile using another product to finish the job ? Would some mechanical device be more effective at keeping to a straight line ? Alan. D. Stewart _____ I've stopped 273 spam messages. You can too! Get your free, safe spam protection at www.cloudmark.com Cloudmark SpamNet - Join the fight against spam! ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:15 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Micro-mesh treatment of windscreen scratches --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Alan You have started in the right direction. I used to do lapidary work and have some "polishing" experience. Plex is very soft compared to the rocks I used to work on , but the procedure is the same. The sanding you do with one grit of sanding is only to remove the scratches of the previous step. In my kit of micro-mesh, I thing there are 6 different grits and then a polish. The first step sands the plex down and removes the offending scratch. The next step removes the scratched of the first step. (got the idea) Good luck and don't be in a hurry to go to the next step. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Stewart" Subject: Europa-List: Micro-mesh treatment of windscreen scratches > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stewart" > > Hi Guys, > > I had a few nasty scratches on the passenger side windshield on my > classic Europa from hurried panel removal. > > Micro mesh seemed the obvious solution, and I'd been pre-warned it need > a fair amount of time and elbow grease to obtain a desirable outcome. > > Well, after about 3 hours, and two or three attempts, the original > scratches are nowhere to be seen ! > In their place is the faint 'misting affect' of thousands of tiny > scratches from the Micro mesh itself. Perhaps part of the problem is the > curved shape of the affected area, and the difficulty of maintaining > direction when polishing. > > Now, perhaps we just weren't determined enough, but we did try damn hard > and its very frustrating. > > Does anyone have advice as to how to remove this affect ? It would've > been great had we succeeded, and I'd have probably carried on to do the > whole windshield. > > How do you get that finally sheen ? Is it worthwhile using another > product to finish the job ? > Would some mechanical device be more effective at keeping to a straight > line ? > Alan. D. Stewart > > > _____ > > I've stopped 273 spam messages. You can too! > Get your free, safe spam protection at www.cloudmark.com > > Cloudmark SpamNet - Join the fight against > spam! > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:45 PM PST US From: "Bill Henderson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Micro-mesh treatment of windscreen scratches --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill Henderson" Would you believe LP Aero had a seminar at Sun-n-fun on polishing out scratches...... I guess the quick answer to your problem is that they mentioned not concentrating on the scratch when you're trying to remove it. Even if you've got a small scratch you need to polish an area 2 or 3 inches bigger than the scratch for the first pass and then expand out even further for subsequent passes. It's suppose to cut down on the halo effect you mentioned. You might try sending them an email to see if they have any "how to" instructions. Their web site is http://www.lpaero.com/ Bill Henderson A010 Monowheel Classic ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Stewart" Subject: Europa-List: Micro-mesh treatment of windscreen scratches > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stewart" > > Hi Guys, > > I had a few nasty scratches on the passenger side windshield on my > classic Europa from hurried panel removal. > > Micro mesh seemed the obvious solution, and I'd been pre-warned it need > a fair amount of time and elbow grease to obtain a desirable outcome. > > Well, after about 3 hours, and two or three attempts, the original > scratches are nowhere to be seen ! > In their place is the faint 'misting affect' of thousands of tiny > scratches from the Micro mesh itself. Perhaps part of the problem is the > curved shape of the affected area, and the difficulty of maintaining > direction when polishing. > > Now, perhaps we just weren't determined enough, but we did try damn hard > and its very frustrating. > > Does anyone have advice as to how to remove this affect ? It would've > been great had we succeeded, and I'd have probably carried on to do the > whole windshield. > > How do you get that finally sheen ? Is it worthwhile using another > product to finish the job ? > Would some mechanical device be more effective at keeping to a straight > line ? > Alan. D. Stewart > > > _____ > > I've stopped 273 spam messages. You can too! > Get your free, safe spam protection at www.cloudmark.com > > Cloudmark SpamNet - Join the fight against > spam! > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:16 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: wingtip light covers --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman Graham Singleton wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton > >At 23:56 08/05/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > >>On another note, I started working with the wingtip lighting, today. >>I'll be trying my hand at molding my own tips. Design is fairly simple >>and hopefully will work for the tips. I have three materials that I >>want to try. One is simple plexiglass. The others are PTFE and >>polycarbonate. I'll let everyone know how the experiment works. I just >>hate springing for $60 USD, each for clear tips... >> >> > >Been there Jeff >I made some covers with Paul McAllister. We can sell them at $79 a pair. >Tom Froedland might still have a spare set? >Graham > > > > Graham, Do yu have pics or a link to the covers? Tanks, Jeff - A055 Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:16 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Regulator Wiring --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" Richard Holder wrote: > I rather expect it to improve the stability of my engine instruments when this earth is properly installed ! 12 or 14 amps through 22AWG will have heated it up a LOT ! And increased its resistance (I think) Richard, Please let us know if the heavier earth wire does in fact improve the stability of your engine instruments. It is from things like this that we learn. I suspect this might be a good example of a ground loop situation but with my limited knowledge ...... Regards Kingsley Hurst Mono Classic 281 in Oz. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:39 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Europa-List: wingtip light covers --> Europa-List message posted by: Hi Jeff Yes, I have an extra set of Graham's lenses. They are very well made. I tried to make my own too and did succeed in making several but I was not happy with them. Graham's are much better and reasonably priced. I think I will keep my extra set incase any thing happens to one of mine in the future. They are of different thickness but otherwise of identical size and I could easily replace one should it get damaged, crazed, etc. I have also assembled kit LED position lights with landing lights for them. They look great, low power drain, never burn out, etc. Tom Friedland A 079 mono Jabiru Airmaster N96V California -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: wingtip light covers --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman Graham Singleton wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton > >At 23:56 08/05/2004 -0700, you wrote: > > >>On another note, I started working with the wingtip lighting, today. >>I'll be trying my hand at molding my own tips. Design is fairly simple >>and hopefully will work for the tips. I have three materials that I >>want to try. One is simple plexiglass. The others are PTFE and >>polycarbonate. I'll let everyone know how the experiment works. I just >>hate springing for $60 USD, each for clear tips... >> >> > >Been there Jeff >I made some covers with Paul McAllister. We can sell them at $79 a pair. >Tom Froedland might still have a spare set? >Graham > > > > Graham, Do yu have pics or a link to the covers? Tanks, Jeff - A055 Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com == == == == ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:17 PM PST US From: "Fabian Lefler" , , , Subject: Europa-List: Monroy ADT-300 Traffic Detector 1.6 LINK_TO_NO_SCHEME BODY: Contains link without http:// prefix --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fabian Lefler" For the last couple of weeks, I have had a number of calls from builders inquiring about the arrival of additional ADT-300 units. We sold out our first batch fairly quickly, and have received a second batch. However, it appears that the manufacturer can't seem to catch with the demand fast enough, so we don't know how long they will be around for those that interested. If you are interested in finding out about the product, you can see can click here http://www.affordablepanels.com/monroy300.htm Regards, Fabian Lefler www.affordablepanels.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:35 PM PST US From: n3eu@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Regulator Wiring --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net Kingsley Hurst wrote: > > Richard Holder wrote: > >> I rather expect it to improve the stability of my engine instruments >> when this earth is properly installed ! 12 or 14 amps through 22AWG >> will have heated it up a LOT ! And increased its resistance (I think) > > Richard, > > Please let us know if the heavier earth wire does in fact improve the > stability of your engine instruments. It is from things like this that > we learn. I suspect this might be a good example of a ground loop > situation but with my limited knowledge ...... Folks, we don't use #22 wire to carry up to 20 A; it will get hot to the point of insulation failure. But nor can there be any ground loop if no device's ground wire is connected at the regulator. Nor does the gauge of the wire have any appreciable effect on RFI or EFI issues. Regards, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:43 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Regulator Wiring --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" I said: > I suspect this might be a good example of a ground loop > situation but with my limited knowledge ...... Fred said : > But nor can there be any ground loop if no device's ground wire is connected at the regulator. See Fred, I did say "limited knowledge" and now I have demonstrable proven just how limited ! ! Ah well, back to the Aeroelectric Connection. Regards Kingsley ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:51 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Regulator Wiring --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" Oops, before Tony Renshaw sees it, I meant 'demonstrably proven' not 'demonstrable'