Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:02 AM - wingtip light covers (Graham Singleton)
2. 05:26 AM - Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring (Richard Holder)
3. 11:42 AM - Re: to build or not to build (asdfa afa df)
4. 02:02 PM - Re: to build or not to build (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
5. 02:57 PM - Cooling (Paul Stewart)
6. 03:39 PM - Re: Cooling (James Nelson)
7. 03:59 PM - Auto Tensioning Shoulder Straps (Tony Renshaw)
8. 04:41 PM - Re: Cooling (Rocketman)
9. 04:51 PM - Re: to build or not to build (Rocketman)
10. 04:53 PM - Re: wingtip light covers (Rocketman)
11. 04:57 PM - Re: wingtip light covers (Rocketman)
12. 05:17 PM - Re: Cooling (KARL HEINDL)
13. 05:55 PM - Re: Cooling (James Nelson)
14. 05:55 PM - Re: Auto Tensioning Shoulder Straps (James Nelson)
15. 08:37 PM - Re: Cooling (Fergus Kyle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | wingtip light covers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 09/05/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >>On another note, I started working with the wingtip lighting, today.
> >>I'll be trying my hand at molding my own tips. Design is fairly simple
> >>and hopefully will work for the tips.
> >
> >Been there Jeff
> >I made some covers with Paul McAllister. We can sell them at $79 a pair.
> >Tom Froedland might still have a spare set?
> >Graham
>Graham,
>
>Do yu have pics or a link to the covers?
>
>Tanks,
>Jeff - A055
Yes, but no link yet. Still haven't found out how to do web site stuff.
I'll send some attachments to you, Jeff
Graham
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Regulator Wiring |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
>>> I rather expect it to improve the stability of my engine instruments
>>> when this earth is properly installed ! 12 or 14 amps through 22AWG
>>> will have heated it up a LOT ! And increased its resistance (I think)
>>
>> Richard,
>>
>> Please let us know if the heavier earth wire does in fact improve the
>> stability of your engine instruments. It is from things like this that
>> we learn. I suspect this might be a good example of a ground loop
>> situation but with my limited knowledge ......
>
> Folks, we don't use #22 wire to carry up to 20 A; it will get hot to the
> point of insulation failure. But nor can there be any ground loop if
> no device's ground wire is connected at the regulator. Nor does the gauge
> of the wire have any appreciable effect on RFI or EFI issues.
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
"Folks, we don't use #22 wire to carry up to 20 A"
Exactly so - IF we know the wire is to carry 20A. My point was that NOWHERE
is the capacity required for this wire mentioned. It is just shown as an
earth the same as the earth on the starter solenoid (which takes maybe 1A
for a very short time).
To honest it should melt as act as a fusible link at 20 A ! (See
AeroElectric Bob's book - he suggests using a wire numerically 4 larger to
act as a fusible link to protect any one cable). I am surprised my 22AWG
wire didn't burn out if the full 19A from the alternator at full charging
rate ran through it. However it would have got hot, and increased its
resistance and probably reduced the current in it.
It could however explain how, when the engine is warm and idling the oil
pressure is shown as 3 bar, and then if you rev up the engine the gauge
shows only 2.5 bar !
These gauges are not very accurate, what they show (or what you want them to
show) is a steady reading - any change (especially in flight) needs to be
investigated.
I have made up the 12AWG cable to replace the existing cable. I will report
back after I have fitted and flown it.
Ground loops are something completely different !
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, EGSG (Stapleford)
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: to build or not to build |
--> Europa-List message posted by: asdfa afa df <ccs_mysticdeath@yahoo.com>
Hello,
I have been considering building the Europa after I
get my Pilot license, just got done with my second
lesson, on the Europa website they claim as little as
500 hours to build, but from what I have read it can
take up to 4 times that to build this wonderful
aircraft.
If you could give me a moment of your time and respond
with how many hours it took to complete your Europa it
would be greatly appreciated.
Jerry Otto
--- DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by:
> DuaneFamly@aol.com
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> I guess you are in a pickle. You have already bought
> a partially built kit
> but it is on the other side of the country.
>
> I was born and raised in Brooklyn, so I cannot
> envision building a Europa
> under those circumstances, even if you have a build
> site upstate. I am lucky
> enough to have retired early, I built a 36 X 24 shop
> specifically for my Europa
> build. I bought a virtually untouched kit and now I
> spend 4-10 hours a day with
> my shop 10 feet from the house. I am 648 hours into
> the build and still see
> another year of building. So take your situation
> with a large grain of salt to
> make a decision. What does your "partner" say about
> losing more time with you?
>
> If you do go forward with the build, think about the
> type of flying you do.
> Unless your wanting to fly up around the 20k level a
> 914 with CS prop may be a
> bit of overkill. A CS prop may be all that you need
> to get the performance you
> want.
>
> Good luck with your decision.
>
>
> Mike Duane A207
> Redding, California
> XS Conventional Gear
> CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Tailwheel
> complete. Wing pins and
> tie bar installed. Working on baggage bay.
> Conventional gear assembled and soon
> to be fitted.
> Back from Sun-N-Fun with lots of ideas!
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: to build or not to build |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Jerry,
I'm just passing the 700 hour mark and are about halfway there. This is not a
task that you can zip through. I'm retired and have my own shop next to my
house. There is a learning curve but tremendous support from many other
builders. If you would like to build then this is a great aircraft for that, but
if
you want to fly then look for a plane that's already built.
Have you flown in a Europa yet? That might be your first step to make sure
it's a good fit for you.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Tailwheel complete. Wing pins and
tie bar installed. Working on baggage bay. Conventional gear assembled and soon
to be fitted.
Back from Sun-N-Fun with lots of ideas!
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Having read several threads rel;ating to cooling recently esp. relating
to the 914, I'm keen to get this as efficient as possible. I have seen
several examples of folk smoothing the transition of the lower cowling
air intake onto the lower surface of the cowling itself. Has anyone done
any more to reduce the sharp edges of the cooling intake as I seem to
remember it being suggested air flow could get so turbulent as to
virtually reverse. If anyone has any pics of what they might have
done, I'd be very grateful.
Regards
Paul
G-GIDY
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Hi Paul,
I did the smoothing out of the inlet all the way to the radiator.
I also included a cooling flap at the outlet of the duct. If you are
doing the factory thing, make sure that NO air get around the oil and
water radiators. The air will go to the path of least resistance. Use
the rubber fabric if necessary to blank off areas where the air will go.
I went the unique way and redid the cooling system. I have a separate
oil cooling radiator (original Europa cooler) that has its own duct
inlet. The main large duct is only for the water radiator. It works
very well for my 912 S. I also have some pix if you want to see them.
Jim Nelson
On Mon, 10 May 2004 22:56:39 +0100 Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
writes:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart
> <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
>
> Having read several threads rel;ating to cooling recently esp.
> relating
> to the 914, I'm keen to get this as efficient as possible. I have
> seen
> several examples of folk smoothing the transition of the lower
> cowling
> air intake onto the lower surface of the cowling itself. Has anyone
> done
> any more to reduce the sharp edges of the cooling intake as I seem
> to
> remember it being suggested air flow could get so turbulent as to
> virtually reverse. If anyone has any pics of what they might have
>
> done, I'd be very grateful.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
> G-GIDY
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Auto Tensioning Shoulder Straps |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Gidday,
I have had a friend tell me of a message recently posted by someone who
used auto tensioning shoulder harnesses, and I would like to find out who
that is. I have searched the archives to no avail. So, if anyone knows I'd
appreciate it.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger (possibly convertible)
Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected
Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed
Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted
Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided)
Instrumentation: Undecided
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
James Nelson wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
>
>Hi Paul,
> I did the smoothing out of the inlet all the way to the radiator.
> I also included a cooling flap at the outlet of the duct. If you are
>doing the factory thing, make sure that NO air get around the oil and
>water radiators. The air will go to the path of least resistance. Use
>the rubber fabric if necessary to blank off areas where the air will go.
>I went the unique way and redid the cooling system. I have a separate
>oil cooling radiator (original Europa cooler) that has its own duct
>inlet. The main large duct is only for the water radiator. It works
>very well for my 912 S. I also have some pix if you want to see them.
>
>Jim Nelson
>
Jim,
Since I'm planning on installing the 912S, I'd be very interested in
seeing those photos. Especially anything to do with the cooling flap
and hearing about how much success you've had in keeping the temps under
control. Could I beg them, off list? ;)
Thanks,
--
Jeff - A055
Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: to build or not to build |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
asdfa afa df wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: asdfa afa df <ccs_mysticdeath@yahoo.com>
>
>Hello,
>
>I have been considering building the Europa after I
>get my Pilot license, just got done with my second
>lesson, on the Europa website they claim as little as
>500 hours to build, but from what I have read it can
>take up to 4 times that to build this wonderful
>aircraft.
>
>If you could give me a moment of your time and respond
>with how many hours it took to complete your Europa it
>would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Jerry Otto
>
>
>--- DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>>--> Europa-List message posted by:
>>DuaneFamly@aol.com
>>
>>Hi Tom,
>>
>>I guess you are in a pickle. You have already bought
>>a partially built kit
>>but it is on the other side of the country.
>>
>>I was born and raised in Brooklyn, so I cannot
>>envision building a Europa
>>under those circumstances, even if you have a build
>>site upstate. I am lucky
>>enough to have retired early, I built a 36 X 24 shop
>>specifically for my Europa
>>build. I bought a virtually untouched kit and now I
>>spend 4-10 hours a day with
>>my shop 10 feet from the house. I am 648 hours into
>>the build and still see
>>another year of building. So take your situation
>>with a large grain of salt to
>>make a decision. What does your "partner" say about
>>losing more time with you?
>>
>>If you do go forward with the build, think about the
>>type of flying you do.
>>Unless your wanting to fly up around the 20k level a
>>914 with CS prop may be a
>>bit of overkill. A CS prop may be all that you need
>>to get the performance you
>>want.
>>
>>Good luck with your decision.
>>
>>
>>Mike Duane A207
>>Redding, California
>>XS Conventional Gear
>>CM & rudder pedals with cables installed. Tailwheel
>>complete. Wing pins and
>>tie bar installed. Working on baggage bay.
>>Conventional gear assembled and soon
>>to be fitted.
>>Back from Sun-N-Fun with lots of ideas!
>>
>>
>>
>>Contributions
>>any other
>>Forums.
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/chat
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>>http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
>>http://www.matronics.com/archives
>>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>>http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
>
>
>
Jerry,
Most of the builds I've seen, or heard about are in the 2000 hour area.
Some are less, but most are that, or more. I've only seen one that was
under the 500 hour mark. My own build, I hope will be around the 500
mark, but keep in mind that I have a good bit of experience in giant
scale building and as an aircraft engine mechanic, when in the navy. If
you really want to build your own Europa, do it, no matter how long it
takes. If you just want to fly, there are Europa's on the market, at
reasonable prices.
--
Jeff - A055
Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: wingtip light covers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
Graham Singleton wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
>
>At 23:56 09/05/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>>>>On another note, I started working with the wingtip lighting, today.
>>>>I'll be trying my hand at molding my own tips. Design is fairly simple
>>>>and hopefully will work for the tips.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Been there Jeff
>>>I made some covers with Paul McAllister. We can sell them at $79 a pair.
>>>Tom Froedland might still have a spare set?
>>>Graham
>>>
>>>
>>Graham,
>>
>>Do yu have pics or a link to the covers?
>>
>>Tanks,
>>Jeff - A055
>>
>>
>
>Yes, but no link yet. Still haven't found out how to do web site stuff.
>I'll send some attachments to you, Jeff
>Graham
>
>
>
>
Graham,
Got the pics, thanks! Would you consider trading some tips for a few
web pages... ? ;)
If this little adventure doesn't pan out, I'll be in touch...
--
Jeff - A055
Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: wingtip light covers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
beecho@beecho.org wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
>
>Hi Jeff
>
>Yes, I have an extra set of Graham's lenses. They are very well made.
>I tried to make my own too and did succeed in making several but I was
>not happy with them. Graham's are much better and reasonably priced. I
>think I will keep my extra set incase any thing happens to one of mine
>in the future. They are of different thickness but otherwise of
>identical size and I could easily replace one should it get damaged,
>crazed, etc.
>
>I have also assembled kit LED position lights with landing lights for
>them. They look great, low power drain, never burn out, etc.
>
>Tom Friedland A 079 mono Jabiru Airmaster N96V California
>
>
>
Tom,
Thanks. I assembled my port wing lighting, today. It works! Hope to
be mounting it, tomorrow. I'll try my hand at the lenses, but may be
calling Graham, when it's all over... :)
--
Jeff - A055
Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Jim,
I am not sure that all that extra work is necessary. I did the standard factory
installation with staggered radiators, and making sure that all air from the
main scoop goes through and not around them. I have not had any cooling problems
with my 912S, even in very hot weather. I closed the large Naca scoop in front
of the oil tank with tape, and still no cooling problem. I think that the
shroud over the top of the 'S' engine is very effective.
Karl
From: James Nelson europajim@juno.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling
-- Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson europajim@juno.com
Hi Paul,
I did the smoothing out of the inlet all the way to the radiator.
I also included a cooling flap at the outlet of the duct. Ifyou are
doing the factory thing, make sure that NO air get around the oil and
water radiators.The air will go to the path of least resistance.Use
the rubber fabric if necessary to blank off areas where the air will go.
I went the unique way and redid the cooling system.I have a separate
oil cooling radiator (original Europa cooler) that has its own duct
inlet.The main large duct is only for the water radiator.It works
very well for my 912 S.I also have some pix if you want to see them.
Jim Nelson
On Mon, 10 May 2004 22:56:39 +0100 Paul Stewart europa@pstewart.f2s.com
writes:
-- Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart
europa@pstewart.f2s.com
Having read several threads rel;ating to cooling recently esp.
relating
to the 914, I'm keen to get this as efficient as possible. I have
seen
several examples offolk smoothing the transition of the lower
cowling
air intake onto the lower surface of the cowling itself. Has anyone
done
any more to reduce the sharp edges of the cooling intake as I seem
to
remember it being suggested air flow could get so turbulent as to
virtually reverse.If anyone has any pics ofwhat they might have
done, I'd be very grateful.
Regards
Paul
G-GIDY
=
=
=
=
Message 13
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|
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Karl,
Do you have a Mono-wheel? That model seems to have the most
problems with high temps on the ground. If you have a Tri-Gear, It
doesn't have cooling problems at all. In fact it runs too cool. I don't
have the shroud for the top of the engine. The issue is getting heat
from the water and oil while taxiing for any time on the ground.
Jim
N15JN
On Tue, 11 May 2004 01:07:55 +0100 "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
writes:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
>
>
> Jim,
>
>
> I am not sure that all that extra work is necessary. I did the
> standard factory installation with staggered radiators, and making
> sure that all air from the main scoop goes through and not around
> them. I have not had any cooling problems with my 912S, even in very
> hot weather. I closed the large Naca scoop in front of the oil tank
> with tape, and still no cooling problem. I think that the shroud
> over the top of the 'S' engine is very effective.
>
>
> Karl
>
>
> From: James Nelson europajim@juno.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling
> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 18:39:03 -0400
>
> -- Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson europajim@juno.com
>
> Hi Paul,
> I did the smoothing out of the inlet all the way to the radiator.
> I also included a cooling flap at the outlet of the duct. Ifyou are
>
> doing the factory thing, make sure that NO air get around the oil
> and
> water radiators.The air will go to the path of least resistance.Use
>
> the rubber fabric if necessary to blank off areas where the air will
> go.
> I went the unique way and redid the cooling system.I have a separate
>
> oil cooling radiator (original Europa cooler) that has its own duct
>
> inlet.The main large duct is only for the water radiator.It works
> very well for my 912 S.I also have some pix if you want to see them.
>
>
> Jim Nelson
>
>
> On Mon, 10 May 2004 22:56:39 +0100 Paul Stewart
> europa@pstewart.f2s.com
> writes:
> -- Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart
> europa@pstewart.f2s.com
>
> Having read several threads rel;ating to cooling recently esp.
> relating
> to the 914, I'm keen to get this as efficient as possible. I have
>
> seen
> several examples offolk smoothing the transition of the lower
> cowling
> air intake onto the lower surface of the cowling itself. Has anyone
>
> done
> any more to reduce the sharp edges of the cooling intake as I seem
>
> to
> remember it being suggested air flow could get so turbulent as to
>
> virtually reverse.If anyone has any pics ofwhat they might have
>
> done, I'd be very grateful.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
> G-GIDY
>
>
> =
>
> =
>
> =
>
> =
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Auto Tensioning Shoulder Straps |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Tony,
Hooker Harness uses automotive inertial reels for their systems.
I have on in my Europa. They work real nice. Be sure that they are sewed
correctly for maximum strength.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
On Tue, 11 May 2004 08:58:51 +1000 Tony Renshaw
<tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au> writes:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw
> <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
>
> Gidday,
> I have had a friend tell me of a message recently posted by someone
> who
> used auto tensioning shoulder harnesses, and I would like to find
> out who
> that is. I have searched the archives to no avail. So, if anyone
> knows I'd
> appreciate it.
>
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Australia
>
> Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger (possibly convertible)
> Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected
> Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed
> Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted
> Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided)
> Instrumentation: Undecided
>
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Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Paul,
I hope that should you get the requested info or pics of cooling
improvements that you will share same with us lower forms?
Cheers, ferg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Stewart" <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Cooling
| --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
|
| Having read several threads rel;ating to cooling recently esp. relating
| to the 914, I'm keen to get this as efficient as possible. I have seen
| several examples of folk smoothing the transition of the lower cowling
| air intake onto the lower surface of the cowling itself. Has anyone done
| any more to reduce the sharp edges of the cooling intake as I seem to
| remember it being suggested air flow could get so turbulent as to
| virtually reverse. If anyone has any pics of what they might have
| done, I'd be very grateful.
|
| Regards
|
| Paul
|
| G-GIDY
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