Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:32 AM - Re: First few hours N378PJ (Jos Okhuijsen)
2. 12:41 AM - Re: First few hours N378PJ (Jos Okhuijsen)
3. 01:55 AM - Fuel flow senders (nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk)
4. 02:48 AM - Re: First few hours N378PJ (Richard Holder)
5. 02:56 AM - Re: fuel flow seners (ivor.phillips)
6. 03:37 AM - Re: First few hours N378PJ (Jos Okhuijsen)
7. 05:29 AM - Re: NACA vent placement (was Re: Gel Coat) (qcbccgalley)
8. 07:17 AM - Re: NACA vent placement (was Re: Gel Coat) (Fergus Kyle)
9. 08:00 AM - Re: NACA vent placement (was Re: Gel Coat) (Garry Stout)
10. 08:33 AM - Re: NACA vent placement (was Re: Gel Coat) (Rob Housman)
11. 10:50 AM - Re: NACA vent placement (was Re: Gel Coat) (Fergus Kyle)
12. 11:57 AM - Re: Fuel flow computer (Duncan McFadyean)
13. 11:57 AM - Re: NACA vent placement (was Re: Gel Coat) (Duncan McFadyean)
14. 12:04 PM - Re: fuel flow seners (Duncan McFadyean)
15. 12:12 PM - Re: fuel flow seners (Duncan McFadyean)
16. 02:37 PM - Re: Fuel flow computer (Carl & Dot)
17. 03:25 PM - Re: Fuel flow computer (Duncan McFadyean)
18. 06:12 PM - Re: NACA vent placement (was Re: Gel Coat) (Rob Housman)
19. 06:21 PM - Re: Europa Fly-In, Tennessee Style (James Nelson)
20. 07:06 PM - Project Sale (Robert Berube)
21. 08:17 PM - Re: NACA vent placement (was Re: Gel Coat) (Ken)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: First few hours N378PJ |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Maybe it helps to point out again that i am willing to post any (Europa)
builders logs, sites, pictures or whatever related on forum.okhuijsen.org.
or if an own domain name is available, offer server space. I have not
found anything yet which would be too big. There are over 2500 pictures
now in the gallery, and the more the better. Any questions contact Steve
or me off-list.
> I have thought about trying to post my builders diary out there
> somewhere, but it is HUGE. Y2002 is 29MB, Y2003 is 108MB, Q1-Y2004 is
> 143MB and Q2-Y2004 is 118MB. If anyone out there has any
> ideas/suggestions, I'd be happy to discuss them.
>
Jos Okhuijsen kit #600, working on wings wings
josok@ukolo.fi
+358 44 5007853
Ukonjrventie 141
99801 Ivalo
Finland
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: First few hours N378PJ |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
> I guess this is because you have lots of hi resolution pictures taking
> up 1,
> 2 or even three mB each. The resolution on a computer screen is such
> that a
> cut down file size of about 150k is at the best resolution that can be
> displayed. All bigger and better resolutions are a waste and just waste
> bandwidth when accessing the site.
>
> Pictures should be made smaller in file size before uploading to your web
> site.
Don't agree Richard, clipping pictures to a smaller resolution is a waist
of information. Sometimes the value is in the details!. If you have a look
at my pictures at forum.okhuijsen.org -> gallery You will see that there
is first a thumbnail, so fast loading, selecting that small picture will
give you a reasonable 768x1028 definition picture and again click that
will produce the original definition one, which is too large for normal
computer screen and will load slowly on anything slower then T1, but will
offer all the details. Hard disk space is cheap nowadays, and we should
not throw anything away, that later could be usefull.
Jos Okhuijsen
kit 600 working on wings
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Fuel flow senders |
--> Europa-List message posted by: nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk
Carl Pattinson wrote:
>For the record our original fuel flow tests (with the sender in situ )
exceeded the maximum flow required by over 100%. On the rotax 912, 25
litres per hour (maximum flow) equates to 416 millilitres per minute. From
memory our fuel system was delivering in excess of 1200 millilitres per
minute (72 litres per hour). This was with both pumps working (ie:
electrical and mechanical),
and shutting down the electrical pump made very little difference to the
readings. We have a fuel pressure sensor on the carb side of the flowmeter
and never experience low pressure readings (ie: below 4psi).<
It is easy to get 72 litres/hr but I would be very surprised if you can
do
it whilst delivering 4psi. The real test is what the electrical pump can
provide on its own with a failed mechanical pump as the valves in the
mechanical pump add a restriction of their own. With unrestricted flow I
managed between 80 and 90litres/hr. To maintain 2.25psi the flow dropped
to
about 40litres/hr with the Floscan. Paddy and I both have the 912S so we
used 30 litres/ hr as the max flow therefore needing a minimum of 36
litres/hr at 2.25psi to give the 20% safety margin stipulated by the PFA.
The Benwick sender with its small aperture (1/16" is pretty small) created
enough pressure drop to make the above figures impossible to achieve.
Removing the sender from the line restored the flow rate above that required
so it was the sensor limiting the flow rate. I already had the Floscan so
Paddy changed to that and was easily able to attain the required numbers.
I am sure you have had no problems but the real test would be whether you
would get full power during the climb or on a go around with the mechanical
pump failed. I hope you never have to find out especially with a 912 on
a
hot day. It may be that with the slightly lower fuel flow of the 912 you
might just achieve the required figures but there is no way I can see that
you will get 72 litres/hr whilst maintaining 2.25psi. If you can achieve
30
litres/hr at 2.25psi then it indicates that the Benwick sender would be
just
suitable for the 912 but not for any engines with higher fuel flow.
Tony Renshaw wrote:
>I know from my enquiries that it is near impossible to get a Floscan out
of
Floscan! The only suitable model is called a 264PB-15 and if you tell them
it is for a plane, forget it. So, don't tell them that, but it seems this
range is very limited and mostly sold to the likes of Blue Mountains, and
Rocky Mountains Instruments.<
I went direct to the company whilst in Seattle (3016 NE Blakely Street,
Seattle, WA 98105). They sold me one with no problems. I think it is either
a case of it depends who you talk to or, as you say, just let them think
you
are using it for a boat (which is their main market). By the way the sensor
reference recommended by Rocky Mountain Instruments is the 201 A type. The
reference numbers that came with mine were 201 A-6 & 201-031-00.
Nigel Charles
Broadband from an unbeatable 15.99!
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/home.html?code=SM-NL-11AM
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: First few hours N378PJ |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
>> I guess this is because you have lots of hi resolution pictures taking up 1,
>> 2 or even three mB each. The resolution on a computer screen is such that a
>> cut down file size of about 150k is at the best resolution that can be
>> displayed. All bigger and better resolutions are a waste and just waste
>> bandwidth when accessing the site.
>>
>> Pictures should be made smaller in file size before uploading to your web
>> site.
>
>
> Don't agree Richard, clipping pictures to a smaller resolution is a waist
> of information. Sometimes the value is in the details!. If you have a look
> at my pictures at forum.okhuijsen.org -> gallery You will see that there
> is first a thumbnail, so fast loading, selecting that small picture will
> give you a reasonable 768x1028 definition picture and again click that
> will produce the original definition one, which is too large for normal
> computer screen and will load slowly on anything slower then T1, but will
> offer all the details. Hard disk space is cheap nowadays, and we should
> not throw anything away, that later could be usefull.
I am not talking about the copies of a picture that you store for yourself
and the future.
I am talking about the images available on the internet for download. Any
file bigger than about 150k will not display any better on a screen than
those at 150k. (Of course they will print better)
The problem here is the time to download. If I started to look at a web page
and found it had 20 pictures and the first was 3mB and took 6 or minutes to
download I would not be bothering to look at ANY others.
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: fuel flow seners |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
Merlin Equipment in Southampton is the British stockist for Floscan
http://www.merlinequipment.com/prod_area.cfm?area_id=45&ind_id=1
Ivor Phillips
XS486 London UK
CM Installed, rudder cables complete,
trial fit top and wings,Undercarriage fitted,playing with tie bar
>
> Grand Rapids will sell you one foir sure.
> I believe Floscan also sell them at reduced cost for use in automobiles. A
> bit of research might be profitable
> Graham
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: First few hours N378PJ |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
> I am not talking about the copies of a picture that you store for
> yourself
> and the future.
And i did not make it clear enough. I am talking about both, storing for
myself and others, and publishing on the internet. I tried to make clear,
that the download speed depends on how the software on the serverside
represents the picture. If this serverside software does reduce the
definition depending the situation, that is first presents a low def
thumnail, then a higher res, and if and only if needed the real large def,
then both low speed connections and the need for no loss quality is met.
Long, complicated story, but easy to see if you follow the given link and
try it for yourself. Maybe that demo will convince.
>
> I am talking about the images available on the internet for download. Any
> file bigger than about 150k will not display any better on a screen than
> those at 150k. (Of course they will print better)
Not nessecary true, in my case, on a 22" photo editing monitor it really
shows. 2048x1600= a bit more then 150k.
>
> The problem here is the time to download. If I started to look at a web
> page
> and found it had 20 pictures and the first was 3mB and took 6 or minutes
> to
> download I would not be bothering to look at ANY others.
Of course not. Agree that too many web designers assume that everybody has
high speed nowadays. Bad design, bad software.
The essence of the story however remains: Please store on a reliable,
backed up medium like a professional server, do not reduce definition, let
the server software do that when and if needed. If it's Europa related
stuff, free of charge, lots of gratefull builders:
http://forum.okhuijsen.org -> gallery
Jos Okhuijsen
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "qcbccgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
NACA vents are INlets not outlet vents. They don't work as outlets.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <ken@soundsuckers.com>
Subject: RE: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ken" <ken@soundsuckers.com>
>
> On a Few of the RV's the owners are putting NACA vents just back of the
> trailing edge of the wings to help exhaust the cabin air and relieve
> cabin pressure. That may not be a place for positive air flow.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rocketman
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
>
> David DeFord wrote:
>
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: "David DeFord"
> <davedeford@comcast.net>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Now for a question of my own. I'm considering where I should put the
> >>NACA vent that will feed the eyeball vents that I'm installing in the
> >>overhead panel. I have a fairly large vent with a 2" opening for the
> >>feed tubing. Would the intake be effective if installed somewhere in
> >>the vicinity of the battery, starboard side, behind the luggage tray,
> >>just above flap level, or maybe even below flap level? Would it be
> >>possible to locate it underneath the fuselage?
> >>
> >>Jeff - A055
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Jeff,
> >
> >I would avoid any location below the wings. We had a persistent
> problem
> >with carbon monoxide in N135TD, and one of the sources turned out to be
> >exhaust gas that entered the rear fuselage through the flap drive
> slots.
> >Even though the air leaking from the tail cone into the cockpit was
> diluted
> >by a much larger intake from our fresh air vents, we still saw about 30
> >parts per million of CO from this source. I suspect that the level
> would be
> >much higher, if your primary ventilation source were picking up air
> that
> >contained exhaust emissions. It might be okay if you kept the inlet on
> the
> >opposite side from the exhaust, but I would make careful measurements
> in any
> >case. Air pressure is likely to be lower on the aft fuselage surfaces,
> so a
> >more forward location may give better air flow as well.
> >
> >Dave DeFord
> >N135TD (flying, 320 hours)
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for the information. I considered the exhaust gas problem, but
> assumed that it would not be a problem on the lower starboard side of
> the fuselage, due to the prop wash lifting it upward. I also assumed
> that the lower fuselage, being fairly flat would give a good airflow
> through the vent. Anyone have any experience with vent inlets in these
> positions? Would it be possible for someone, with a running Europa, to
> make a few CO2 measurements in the areas I'm talking about? Any
> assistance would be greatly appreciated...
>
> Jeff - A055
> Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "qcbccgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
| NACA vents are INlets not outlet vents. They don't work as outlets.
Right. I've noted several mentions of using the vent for evacuating the
cabin air. The NACA inlet was chosen to operate the engine inlets for the
F93 version of the Sabre. It is designed to induce intake from high speed
flow without incurring great drag. . It will do nothing for cabin outlets or
any other reverse flow. Might as well cut a hole.
Ferg
A064
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry Stout" <garrys@tampabay.rr.com>
The last time I checked, there was nothing but air "just back of the
trailing edge of the wings". :-)
Garry Stout
Flying Trigear N4220S
Subject: RE: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ken" <ken@soundsuckers.com>
>
> On a Few of the RV's the owners are putting NACA vents just back of the
> trailing edge of the wings to help exhaust the cabin air and relieve
> cabin pressure. That may not be a place for positive air flow.
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
>
> David DeFord wrote:
>
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: "David DeFord"
> <davedeford@comcast.net>
> >
> >>Now for a question of my own. I'm considering where I should put the
> >>NACA vent that will feed the eyeball vents that I'm installing in the
> >>overhead panel. I have a fairly large vent with a 2" opening for the
> >>feed tubing. Would the intake be effective if installed somewhere in
> >>the vicinity of the battery, starboard side, behind the luggage tray,
> >>just above flap level, or maybe even below flap level? Would it be
> >>possible to locate it underneath the fuselage?
> >>
> >>Jeff - A055
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Jeff,
> >
> >I would avoid any location below the wings. We had a persistent
> problem
> >with carbon monoxide in N135TD, and one of the sources turned out to be
> >exhaust gas that entered the rear fuselage through the flap drive
> slots.
> >Even though the air leaking from the tail cone into the cockpit was
> diluted
> >by a much larger intake from our fresh air vents, we still saw about 30
> >parts per million of CO from this source. I suspect that the level
> would be
> >much higher, if your primary ventilation source were picking up air
> that
> >contained exhaust emissions. It might be okay if you kept the inlet on
> the
> >opposite side from the exhaust, but I would make careful measurements
> in any
> >case. Air pressure is likely to be lower on the aft fuselage surfaces,
> so a
> >more forward location may give better air flow as well.
> >
> >Dave DeFord
> >N135TD (flying, 320 hours)
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for the information. I considered the exhaust gas problem, but
> assumed that it would not be a problem on the lower starboard side of
> the fuselage, due to the prop wash lifting it upward. I also assumed
> that the lower fuselage, being fairly flat would give a good airflow
> through the vent. Anyone have any experience with vent inlets in these
> positions? Would it be possible for someone, with a running Europa, to
> make a few CO2 measurements in the areas I'm talking about? Any
> assistance would be greatly appreciated...
>
> Jeff - A055
> Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
While I must agree with your comments, Ferg, there is a way to use the NACA
inlet to do the job, thanks to our old friend Bernoulli. See
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/fluids/aspir.html for a brief
description of an aspirator, a device for generating low pressure by using
higher pressure flow. Many of us are probably familiar (from chem lab) with
the scheme shown in the hyperlink where water is used to generate air flow
into the tee, but the same principle works with compressed air in the
straight leg of the tee to create a vacuum in the side arm of the tee.
Clever guy, Bernoulli.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Re: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "qcbccgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
| NACA vents are INlets not outlet vents. They don't work as outlets.
Right. I've noted several mentions of using the vent for evacuating the
cabin air. The NACA inlet was chosen to operate the engine inlets for the
F93 version of the Sabre. It is designed to induce intake from high speed
flow without incurring great drag. . It will do nothing for cabin outlets or
any other reverse flow. Might as well cut a hole.
Ferg
A064
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "qcbccgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
| To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: Re: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
| | NACA vents are INlets not outlet vents. They don't work as outlets.
|
| --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
| Right. I've noted several mentions of using the vent for evacuating the
| cabin air. The NACA inlet was chosen to operate the engine inlets for the
| F93 version of the Sabre. It is designed to induce intake from high speed
| flow without incurring great drag. . It will do nothing for cabin outlets
or
| any other reverse flow. Might as well cut a hole.
| Ferg
| A064
Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
| While I must agree with your comments, Ferg, there is a way to use the
NACA
| inlet to do the job, thanks to our old friend Bernoulli. See
| http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/fluids/aspir.html for a brief
| description of an aspirator, a device for generating low pressure by using
| higher pressure flow. Many of us are probably familiar (from chem lab)
with
| the scheme shown in the hyperlink where water is used to generate air flow
| into the tee, but the same principle works with compressed air in the
| straight leg of the tee to create a vacuum in the side arm of the tee.
| Clever guy, Bernoulli.
| Best regards, Rob Housman
| Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Rob et al,
I'll buy that, so I went to the site and saw three choices:
Hyperphysics - to 'Condensed Matter'[the only applicable site]; then
Mechanics - to Pressure to Kinetic Energy; then
to Potential Energy; then
to Bernoulli Equation -
much of which I remember (if not with fondness), but little of which
inspired understanding of how a NACA inlet is sited/configured to extract
cabin air at relative low speed. Perhaps there's a site therein which I
missed.......
There's just the off-chance my comprehension is ready for a cleaning
and polishing, but can you point me to the principle or practicality of
using a NACA inlet design?
Of course this is all E&OE,
Cheers, Ferg.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow computer |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>>had a slot as restrictor in the flow
> sensor. That one did cause a problem I remember.<<
That is the RS Components version.
Duncan Mcf.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel flow computer
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton
<graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
>
> At 23:56 31/05/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >I have to disagree with those that say the Benwick system is a bad one.
Many
> >people (including myself) have used them without problems. I am aware
that
> >the restrictor is a potential hazard if it were to become blocked by a
lump
> >of dirt but there shouldnt be lumps that size floating around any fuel
> >system.
>
> Carl
> some one, Benwick? used a sensor that had a slot as restrictor in the flow
> sensor. That one did cause a problem I remember.The width of the slot was
> much less than the width of a circle of the same area, hence more prone to
> blocking.
> Graham
>
>
Message 13
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Having cut down my exhaust tailpipe from 12" to 6" (so that it is now about
the same as the Factory version in terms of location and projection) I now
find that at the point of a full-flaps stall there is a whiff of exhaust
fumes in the cockpit.
The only large aperture for these fumes to get in is through the flap drive
slots; at the aft edge of the trailing edge!
It could be getting in elsewhere, but all other likely candidate-apertures
are closed if not sealed
Duncan McF..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <ken@soundsuckers.com>
Subject: RE: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ken" <ken@soundsuckers.com>
>
> On a Few of the RV's the owners are putting NACA vents just back of the
> trailing edge of the wings to help exhaust the cabin air and relieve
> cabin pressure. That may not be a place for positive air flow.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rocketman
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
>
> David DeFord wrote:
>
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: "David DeFord"
> <davedeford@comcast.net>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Now for a question of my own. I'm considering where I should put the
> >>NACA vent that will feed the eyeball vents that I'm installing in the
> >>overhead panel. I have a fairly large vent with a 2" opening for the
> >>feed tubing. Would the intake be effective if installed somewhere in
> >>the vicinity of the battery, starboard side, behind the luggage tray,
> >>just above flap level, or maybe even below flap level? Would it be
> >>possible to locate it underneath the fuselage?
> >>
> >>Jeff - A055
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Jeff,
> >
> >I would avoid any location below the wings. We had a persistent
> problem
> >with carbon monoxide in N135TD, and one of the sources turned out to be
> >exhaust gas that entered the rear fuselage through the flap drive
> slots.
> >Even though the air leaking from the tail cone into the cockpit was
> diluted
> >by a much larger intake from our fresh air vents, we still saw about 30
> >parts per million of CO from this source. I suspect that the level
> would be
> >much higher, if your primary ventilation source were picking up air
> that
> >contained exhaust emissions. It might be okay if you kept the inlet on
> the
> >opposite side from the exhaust, but I would make careful measurements
> in any
> >case. Air pressure is likely to be lower on the aft fuselage surfaces,
> so a
> >more forward location may give better air flow as well.
> >
> >Dave DeFord
> >N135TD (flying, 320 hours)
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for the information. I considered the exhaust gas problem, but
> assumed that it would not be a problem on the lower starboard side of
> the fuselage, due to the prop wash lifting it upward. I also assumed
> that the lower fuselage, being fairly flat would give a good airflow
> through the vent. Anyone have any experience with vent inlets in these
> positions? Would it be possible for someone, with a running Europa, to
> make a few CO2 measurements in the areas I'm talking about? Any
> assistance would be greatly appreciated...
>
> Jeff - A055
> Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: fuel flow seners |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
See also
www.brokenlegdave.com
and go to the Floscan Header. Look at the 231.
Basic info. can be had from
www.floScan.com
and click on gas flow sensors. The 231 sensor is being used by a certain
supplier of fuel computers in the UK.
There's a data sheet somewhere, but I ran out of patience to find it again.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: fuel flow seners
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton
<graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
>
> At 23:56 31/05/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >I bought mine direct from Floscan in Seattle (about $160 but money well
> >spent). I haven't got their contact details to hand. Try Google. If no
joy
> >remind me in a couple of days time and I will look it up for you. The
> >Floscan is cast alloy and comes with 1/4" female NPT threads. Either
> >incorporate it into a rigid pipe system or buy a couple of adaptors to
mate
> >with the 5/16" rubber hose.
>
> Grand Rapids will sell you one foir sure.
> I believe Floscan also sell them at reduced cost for use in automobiles. A
> bit of research might be profitable
> Graham
>
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: fuel flow seners |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
And you can get Flosacn sensors (only) from them.
DuncanMcF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: fuel flow seners
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips"
<ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
>
> Merlin Equipment in Southampton is the British stockist for Floscan
> http://www.merlinequipment.com/prod_area.cfm?area_id=45&ind_id=1
>
> Ivor Phillips
> XS486 London UK
> CM Installed, rudder cables complete,
> trial fit top and wings,Undercarriage fitted,playing with tie bar
> >
> > Grand Rapids will sell you one foir sure.
> > I believe Floscan also sell them at reduced cost for use in automobiles.
A
> > bit of research might be profitable
> > Graham
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow computer |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
There may have been a batch of "slotted" restrictors but I have never seen
one. I have seen several ones with the normal circular hole. The one
currently available from RS would seem to be the normal variety according to
the spec sheet (ie: hole as opposed to slot).
My present sender is definitely an RS one - no slot, just a small circular
hole (I remember removing the RS label)
The restrictor in any event is a plug that can be removed so if you have one
with a slot, take it out and drill the slot out with a 1.5 or 2mm drill.
If you do this you will need to recallibrate the unit but its dead easy to
do. If you have lost the instructions, email me and I will send a photocopy
of mine.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel flow computer
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean"
<ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> >>had a slot as restrictor in the flow
> > sensor. That one did cause a problem I remember.<<
>
> That is the RS Components version.
>
> Duncan Mcf.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow computer |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>>> If you do this you will need to recallibrate the unit but its dead easy
to
do. <<
No thanks Carl, I already traded in the RS for the Floscan!
Duncan McF.
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel flow computer
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
>
> There may have been a batch of "slotted" restrictors but I have never seen
> one. I have seen several ones with the normal circular hole. The one
> currently available from RS would seem to be the normal variety according
to
> the spec sheet (ie: hole as opposed to slot).
>
> My present sender is definitely an RS one - no slot, just a small circular
> hole (I remember removing the RS label)
>
> The restrictor in any event is a plug that can be removed so if you have
one
> with a slot, take it out and drill the slot out with a 1.5 or 2mm drill.
>
> If you do this you will need to recallibrate the unit but its dead easy to
> do. If you have lost the instructions, email me and I will send a
photocopy
> of mine.
>
> Carl
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel flow computer
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean"
> <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
> >
> > >>had a slot as restrictor in the flow
> > > sensor. That one did cause a problem I remember.<<
> >
> > That is the RS Components version.
> >
> > Duncan Mcf.
>
>
Message 18
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
OK, I'll try this again. The first page at the hyperlink is the page of
interest. Everything else at that URL is of academic interest only (sorry
about the bad pun - I couldn't help myself). My suggestion was that the air
flow behind the NACA inlet corresponds to the water flow in the photo at the
top of that page and the "vacuum" line from the drum corresponds to the
exhaust duct in the aircraft. To make this work it would be necessary to
dump the flow from the straight line behind the NACA duct overboard
(presumably in a low pressure area).
Just for fun check out the video at the "Show movie" link at the bottom of
the page.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Re: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "qcbccgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
| To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: Re: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
| | NACA vents are INlets not outlet vents. They don't work as outlets.
|
| --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
| Right. I've noted several mentions of using the vent for evacuating the
| cabin air. The NACA inlet was chosen to operate the engine inlets for the
| F93 version of the Sabre. It is designed to induce intake from high speed
| flow without incurring great drag. . It will do nothing for cabin outlets
or
| any other reverse flow. Might as well cut a hole.
| Ferg
| A064
Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
| While I must agree with your comments, Ferg, there is a way to use the
NACA
| inlet to do the job, thanks to our old friend Bernoulli. See
| http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/fluids/aspir.html for a brief
| description of an aspirator, a device for generating low pressure by using
| higher pressure flow. Many of us are probably familiar (from chem lab)
with
| the scheme shown in the hyperlink where water is used to generate air flow
| into the tee, but the same principle works with compressed air in the
| straight leg of the tee to create a vacuum in the side arm of the tee.
| Clever guy, Bernoulli.
| Best regards, Rob Housman
| Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Rob et al,
I'll buy that, so I went to the site and saw three choices:
Hyperphysics - to 'Condensed Matter'[the only applicable site]; then
Mechanics - to Pressure to Kinetic Energy; then
to Potential Energy; then
to Bernoulli Equation -
much of which I remember (if not with fondness), but little of which
inspired understanding of how a NACA inlet is sited/configured to extract
cabin air at relative low speed. Perhaps there's a site therein which I
missed.......
There's just the off-chance my comprehension is ready for a cleaning
and polishing, but can you point me to the principle or practicality of
using a NACA inlet design?
Of course this is all E&OE,
Cheers, Ferg.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Fly-In, Tennessee Style |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Hi John,
Well it looks as tho fate will let me attend your "do" on
Saturday. I am going to be up in Springfield for the week and 'mine
Frau' has nicely allowed (?) me to travel back to your humble abode. I
have your directions you put on the web so it should be no problem in
getting there. I should be there around 10:30 or so on Sat. Looking
forward to the meet.
Jim Nelson
N15JN >
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" <bberube@tampabay.rr.com>
Hal Steffan's family has agreed to an asking price for his monowheel
motorglider project. As indicated earlier, the kit has the standard wing as
well, powered by a 914 with airmaster feathering prop, monowheel trailer.
Optional 24 ft new enclosed trailer not included in asking price. All the
instruments incl. Gyros with Garmin 250xl, transponder. They are not sure
of all the equipment as it is not installed in the panel.
At this time, they are not interested in parting out the project but are not
ruling it out.
Let me know offline if anyone has interest in this project.
Regards,
Bob Berube
Message 21
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ken" <ken@soundsuckers.com>
THEY ARE INSTALLING THE VENTS BACKWARDS AND IT CREATES A VACUMN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Re: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "qcbccgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: NACA vent placement (was RE: Europa-List: Gel Coat)
| NACA vents are INlets not outlet vents. They don't work as outlets.
Right. I've noted several mentions of using the vent for evacuating the
cabin air. The NACA inlet was chosen to operate the engine inlets for
the
F93 version of the Sabre. It is designed to induce intake from high
speed
flow without incurring great drag. . It will do nothing for cabin
outlets or
any other reverse flow. Might as well cut a hole.
Ferg
A064
==
==
==
==
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